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View Full Version : 610 marine fish found in the garbage at Honokohau Small Boat Harbor


neoyhng
02/04/2010, 01:54 AM
See it yourself. No comment

http://glassbox-design.com/2010/hobby-gets-another-black-eye-610-fish-found-in-trash/

robs.mark
02/04/2010, 02:02 AM
actually brings tears to my eyes. what can you say to something like this?

ReeferChick85
02/04/2010, 04:44 AM
Quoted from GlassBox entry...

".......610 beautiful fish that would have otherwise been alive in the ocean were thrown away in the trash." :thumbdown


OMG this makes me sick and terribly sad :sad1: ....That statement got to me.I love having a piece of the ocean and I also have a tremendous love for all animals and their safety and well being but I feel like a hypocrite at times,especially when things like this happen. Sucks no matter what :(

JGYEAR
02/04/2010, 05:28 AM
That is sad, I hope they catch the people that did it.

Carlos Arouche
02/04/2010, 06:20 AM
It´s important to mantion that our hobby kills much more than that... easily we should multiply by 100 this number each month...
Not only in our reefs, but in the way to the Pet store and when captured....

Not blaming anyone, but we need to know the price of our hobby.

username in use
02/04/2010, 07:02 AM
Thats in a place like Hawaii where people care. Imagine the amount of dead fish that end up in trash in Indo, and no one over there seems to care at all. I would imagine its a fair amount more.

dixiedog
02/04/2010, 07:04 AM
Heartbreaking.

It's so ironic that because we love these fish, so many of them die.

And yes, this is just a token number. Worldwide, annually ... the number of fish killed in the aquarium trade must be utterly staggering.

BFG
02/04/2010, 08:03 AM
Guess what happens to shipment of fishes and coral when they miss their connecting flight?

Lateralus
02/04/2010, 11:49 AM
It´s important to mantion that our hobby kills much more than that... easily we should multiply by 100 this number each month...
Not only in our reefs, but in the way to the Pet store and when captured....

Not blaming anyone, but we need to know the price of our hobby.


+1 ty

dubdlee
02/04/2010, 11:25 PM
This is just stomach turning. Even with the large numbers of fish that die from this trade to see such a large number of fish dead together like this is jaw dropping.

That's why education about our hobby and aqua culture is very important.

tprize
02/05/2010, 12:08 AM
With the amount of money invested into this hobby I really wish more research was put into breeding habits, and coral fragging. One reason I buy my corals from fraggers is at least I know their not from the ocean... I just wish fish were that easy.

tkeracer619
02/05/2010, 12:20 AM
Disgusting. The looser who did that will pay one way or another.

Maivortex
02/05/2010, 12:29 AM
Thats in a place like Hawaii where people care. Imagine the amount of dead fish that end up in trash in Indo, and no one over there seems to care at all. I would imagine its a fair amount more.

I lived in Hawaii for 10 years. There are many people that dont care. It is mostly the local people that dont care. They dont appreciate the islands beauty cause it is all they ever known. It is taken for granted. Local people using gill nets, killing tiger sharks, littering everywhere on the beach. There is wide spread ignorance in Hawaii.
There is little environmental law enforcement. They dont have the resources to keep a close eye on everything. Ny has conservation officers (Environmental police with guns) protecting the lakes, beaches and ponds; Hawaii has a few kids walking around in green shirts. It is sad....

Alex T.
02/05/2010, 01:13 AM
I think we can do our part too. Many of us know our local lfs stores do some dastardly things. How many times have I seen every fish being delivered going from a 10 minute float in a dark bag to a high nutrient tank full of yellow medicine? Too many to count! If you see this sort of activity or blatant disregard for the animals and their environment, don't buy fish there. Don't even buy your food and dry goods there. Tell others. I've seen fish brought back dead for a refund because these ignorant store owners sold a fish to a jackass who didn't even know it was supposed to live in saltwater! I know these are tough economic times but how heartless and cruel can these people be to make a buck.

One lfs in particular runs a reef tank (235 gallon) with 1 Aquaclear hang on the back filter and a return through a cruddy, never cleaned canister filter. Frag plugs with coral skeletons litter the bottom of the tank where they fell and perished. Mojano anemones flourish and there's so much salt creep on the PC lighting that it looks like there's one Normal Output fluorescent in the whole tank. I once saw a Yellow Tang that after a week in this dealer's tank looked like a see through tetra. No vegetable clip, nothing! A different butterfly inhabits the tank every time I "visited" because they all die in this septic system of disgrace. I was told by the shop owner one day, "Hey, that's our display, but those are for sale you know." I told him they should be free. You'd be doing them all a favor by giving them away. When he vehemently denied that he was doing anything wrong I showed him pictures off my phone of my tank. He acted like his rivaled it in "biodiversity". He could clearly see the disgust in my face and I told him I won't be back. He yelled out (because no one else was there) "Well now you can't come back". Being that MACNA was here in Atlantic City this year, I saw him walking the aisles like a child being taken to his first amusement park. I told him to pay attention and get a conference pass because he could learn a lot here. You see, I'm a little bigger, stronger and smarter than him so the better half of me wanted him to start something so I could take it outside and beat him senseful. This is not your typical lfs owner, but unfortunately there's plenty of them. If wholesalers monitored their buyers by requiring an end user (us) to provide feedback on the condition of the fish they purchased and the conditions in which they lived, things could change a little. Maybe even some cell phone videos put on YouTube warning others.Even if this required a couple of dollars per fish purchased it would make a mountain of difference compared to how it is now. Just my .02

DH212
02/05/2010, 01:30 AM
Wow, thats crazy

Carlos Arouche
02/05/2010, 06:54 AM
The best thing we can do is:

1- Diferentiate (any idea) with some sort of certificate the correct stores (and buy from there even paying a little bit more (yes, qualit is more expensive).

2- Prefer fishes that have possibility of reproducing in captivity (buy clownfishes, bangays and others first...)

Yes, even frags of coral, are bad, because it comes from a coral that was in a reef...

Yes, our hobby is damaging nature i think we should at least try to help nature in any other way to compensate.

Even knowing that climate, new sea ports and population growth damage much more, I have to tell that I fell worst, because I do love the reefs, and I know that i´m not helping the ocean.

Best regards.

KafudaFish
02/05/2010, 09:14 AM
Just curious as to why people are so upset over this specific case?

Is it because of the number of yellow tangs that died?
Would people be as upset if the number was 6 instead of 600?
Is it because most of the fish that died were yellow tangs and we hold them to a higher "value" because they are beautiful?


These fish that died and were thrown away is on the same level as giving a penny to remove our national debt.

It is a sad thing though so I am not a jerk just realize that this is a fact of the hobby.

Carlos Arouche
02/05/2010, 09:19 AM
KafudaFish, I have a different opinion than yours.

AquaReeferMan
02/05/2010, 09:44 AM
It is a sad thing though so I am not a jerk just realize that this is a fact of the hobby.

So when did collecting 600 fish and throwing them in the trash become part of the hobby?

KafudaFish
02/05/2010, 10:42 AM
So when did collecting 600 fish and throwing them in the trash become part of the hobby?

My point is events like this occur on a daily basis. This was simply a discovered one.

Look at the numbers:

How many fish are collected per year in Hawaii alone? 3 million maybe and of that somewhere around a million are reported to the DNR.

Of the 1 million how many die before they leave the state? 2% or 20,000 maybe?

That would be somewhere around 55 per day.

Of the remaining how many die during shipping?
How many die at the store?
How many die in our reefs at home?

Even if they survive to our reef tanks what percentage live an enitre lifetime?

How many breed and contribute to the natural population? None maybe.

By this point all of them will die and none will contribute anything to Hawaii's ecosystem.

If each fish collected is now considered dead to the ecosytem then the number of fish that die per day goes from around 55 to almost 3000 if we go with a million fish/year collected.

Throw in all the invertebrate species collected for our viewing pleasure and things get even more disturbing.

As I said is this a good thing that happened? No.
Is it part of the hobby? Sadly yes.

br3nt
02/05/2010, 10:47 AM
In itself this is probably not a huge loss compared to the worldwide losses like someone mentioned before, and like someone else said, this should be seen by all in the hobby to help us realize our impact and to think about ways to improve how was go about getting livestock/corals.

Carlos Arouche
02/05/2010, 11:09 AM
Mike, Imagine the following situation...

your son in 15 years apperas to love the reefs that he sees in movies and pictures...

But your son will never see it in natural because there is no more reefs in the world.

What You will prefer to say to your son ?

1- I knew it, but as it was a major problem, I keep supporting the reef destruction !
2- I´ve did all I could to prevent this to happen.

(is this sistuation really impossible ?)

KafudaFish
02/05/2010, 01:11 PM
First and foremost as I have said this is a bad situation but people are acting like this has never occurred before. My point is that it happens each day all day long. If you throw in the fishing industry to the mix it is even worse.

As far as my children, they will know and understand what and how man has impacted the environment.

I don’t have to go to Hawaii to show them the effects. All I have to do is go take a walk out my front door with them and explain. I study this and my job deals with human impacts on freshwater systems.

I do see first hand the impacts. If anyone has ever eaten a tomato from Grainger County, Tennessee then they should also realize that the same farmer that grew that tomato may also be responsible for over 9000 fish that were killed after pesticides entered a local creek. Some of these native species are considered threatened or worse.

What was done to the farmer? Probably not much unless the state can prove that the farmer was directly responsible. He will hire a lawyer, this will go to court, he will be fined a large amount of money, it will go back to court and eventually the settlement will be for a small amount.

Guess what? The fish are still dead, the wild population struggles and it will happen again.

I just wonder how many yellow tangs were sold today? Perhaps some good really will come because of this though.

wickedfood
02/05/2010, 01:43 PM
So what might a sustainable reeftank look like? It's more/less very possible...

KingwoodMarcia
02/18/2010, 10:01 AM
That is very sad, and those held responsible.

stanlalee
02/18/2010, 10:51 AM
do you people realize researchers bust open the belly of this many fish regularly that dont even have any significant commercial value or reason to study just to examine the content of their stomach. the circumstances may be disturbing (whatever they actually are) but the numbers arent significant.

while sad you should really get out the hobby if you think 600 dead yellow tangs is anything significant in the mortality of ornamental fish capture for this hobby. Hawaii has a long history of sectors not liking their natural wildlife being screwed with so its somewhat sensationalized (if this were indonesia nobody would be writing stories or giving it a second look). we catch too many reef fish and many die in the process plain and simple. we arent innocent and primary contributers. its like eating steak but being disturbed that their neck gets cut to bleed out at the slaughtering block as if you thought they were getting sleeping pills and patted on the head before turned into prime rib yet you continue to eat steak.

and no I'm not trying to trivialize some scumbags trying to illegally export fish from hawaii with disregard to their well being or disposal but some of you just sound nieve with the mortality and numbers exported.

facts:
8-10 MILLION reef fish are collected and exported every year to the aquarium trade
500,000 yearly from Hawaii, 300,000 of those are YELLOW TANGS
collectors get about $3 per yellow tang
for every yellow tang sold one or two DIE in transit
ornamental trade numbers are a drop in the bucket compared to commercial fishing (something like 1%)

given that to write a big story about 600 dead tangs is sensationlism

BrooksReef
02/18/2010, 11:37 AM
This is truly disgusting.

Even knowing that there are far more than 600 deaths of these beautiful fish, I don't think you can sit here and say "oh thats nothing." You must feel some remorse knowing that carelessness such as this is the reason our hobby is getting a negative image. The reason this was shocking to most people, is this: they were thrown in a DUMPSTER. I dare say that most of the deaths of ornamental fish coming into our hobby are not intentional. To make the comparison of fish to steak just seems wrong to me. The fish are brought into our hobby to be cared for in an environment that mimics their natural home, whereas cows are brought into the meat industry to be killed. There are ways to avoid buying the fish that are wild caught by buying captive bred, however, there is no way to avoid eating meat from a cow that wasn't slaughtered.

The fact of the matter is, 600 deaths is VERY significant, as it is a contributes to the larger numbers. "Smaller scale" incidences like this add up.

GreshamH
02/18/2010, 12:00 PM
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1787403

Jay said it best in that link!

Rascalson
02/18/2010, 12:06 PM
But something smells fishy. Months and months(6+) of lurking on this and other forums and nothing like this type of article comes up on the radar. Now when outfits like CBD are starting to push their agenda of twisting the endangered species laws to advance their cause this stuff pops up. As soon as I saw the article about their petition I did some googling. An article like this popped up in 2008 right around the time of one of their first legal victories. Nothing but smiley glad hands with hidden agendas IMO.

GreshamH
02/18/2010, 12:09 PM
The deal in HI started years ago. Snorkel Bob really pushed that one. There's several bills in HI trying to shut the trade down.

bristle
02/18/2010, 12:56 PM
I used to work in an LFS. 40-50% death rates weren't uncommon. Sometimes it was a little lower. When we were receiving 500 fish, that's 200-250 dead fish. That's not counting the number of fish that die in holding tanks in the various countries, the ones that die on arrival etc.

People have to realize that for every fish they see healthy in the aquarium store, there are many others that have died as a result of catching them. So 600 fish is just a drop in the bucket. Don't be too upset about it as each fish you buy supports the destruction of others.

Sardaukar
02/18/2010, 01:10 PM
do you people realize researchers bust open the belly of this many fish regularly that dont even have any significant commercial value or reason to study just to examine the content of their stomach. the circumstances may be disturbing (whatever they actually are) but the numbers arent significant.

while sad you should really get out the hobby if you think 600 dead yellow tangs is anything significant in the mortality of ornamental fish capture for this hobby. Hawaii has a long history of sectors not liking their natural wildlife being screwed with so its somewhat sensationalized (if this were indonesia nobody would be writing stories or giving it a second look). we catch too many reef fish and many die in the process plain and simple. we arent innocent and primary contributers. its like eating steak but being disturbed that their neck gets cut to bleed out at the slaughtering block as if you thought they were getting sleeping pills and patted on the head before turned into prime rib yet you continue to eat steak.

and no I'm not trying to trivialize some scumbags trying to illegally export fish from hawaii with disregard to their well being or disposal but some of you just sound nieve with the mortality and numbers exported.

facts:
8-10 MILLION reef fish are collected and exported every year to the aquarium trade
500,000 yearly from Hawaii, 300,000 of those are YELLOW TANGS
collectors get about $3 per yellow tang
for every yellow tang sold one or two DIE in transit
ornamental trade numbers are a drop in the bucket compared to commercial fishing (something like 1%)

given that to write a big story about 600 dead tangs is sensationlism

It certainly is interesting that many of the people who were so "outraged" over the 600 dead tangs are going to go home and grill a salmon fillet or head out to a sushi place for some delicious tuna sushi rolls... There are fishing boats that drag in more fish than that in a single net and those fish end up just as dead as those yellow tangs, although for purely human/emotional reasons, its understandable why people would get upset over beautiful yellow tangs and not bat an eye when mackerel are pulled in by the ton.

tkeracer619
02/18/2010, 08:35 PM
If they found 600 mackerels in a dumpster, yes people would be upset. Sort of like that crab fishing show where the idiot thought it was funny to stab a bait fish then toss it in the hold with the crabs. I am pretty sure many people were angry over that.

Most people don't get mad when living things are harvested by humans for a useful purpose. Most people get mad when living things are harvested for a purpose and then thrown in the dumpster.

stanlalee
02/19/2010, 06:48 AM
If they found 600 mackerels in a dumpster, yes people would be upset. Sort of like that crab fishing show where the idiot thought it was funny to stab a bait fish then toss it in the hold with the crabs. I am pretty sure many people were angry over that.

Most people don't get mad when living things are harvested by humans for a useful purpose. Most people get mad when living things are harvested for a purpose and then thrown in the dumpster.


Harvesting is not the problem, havesting in gross excess is the problem and we do that on all accounts. the only outrage I saw with bait in the crab pot was the loss of money. those crabs are dead because we are willing to pay an arm and leg for some guys to go out in unthinkable conditions and nearly kill or kill themselves for some crab meat that is purely luxury for human consumption. when something is that difficult and risky to obtain common sense dictates it was probably never in the plan to be havested by us. What we do (aquarium trade) is not even useful. its called ornamental because its just that, purely entertainment.

timdam
02/19/2010, 09:59 AM
it's sad that anything dies. but what does it matter if they're thrown into a dumpster after they are dead?