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View Full Version : Am I going crazy?


TampaReefer79
02/04/2010, 10:36 AM
Someone in my local club posted a few days ago the following:

"i feed mine twice a day 1 time when i get up around 10-11 the other at night randomly . they are fat and happy with that .i have about a dozen tangs and 8-10 other fish in a 120 with them and no problems with them eatting.i have had the best luck with the lyretails. the purple queens are amazing looking but i dont know anyone who has had long term success with them ."

I posted right after quoting them asking if they were serious. I got no reply. So today they mention AGAIN that they have one dozen 6"+ tangs in a 120.

I let them know again that this is irresponsible and just insanity. Of course I got a reply this time and got flamed. There was actually other folks in the club sticking up for this madness.

Can anyone help me figure out when it became ok to house ONE DOZEN tangs in a 4 foot 120 gallon tank with 10 OTHER FISH??? Am I getting too old and outdated with my husbandry skills??

Holyreefer
02/04/2010, 10:50 AM
is this a lfs or an actual reefer?

TampaReefer79
02/04/2010, 10:52 AM
is this a lfs or an actual reefer?

An actual reefer with his home tank. If it was a lfs with a 'temporary' tank or something it would be different. We're talking about a display. :thumbdown

maynardjames
02/04/2010, 11:03 AM
im not saying they are not, just its not a good idea imo.. im not big on telling people what they can & can`t do. i`m not the tang police, others have posted that one fish or another should not be put in certain tanks or kept at all. that fish should be left in the ocean. which in a lot of cases may be true. but if we left everything where it should really be. none of us would have saltwater fish or this great place to discuss such topics.
just my 1 cent. i did vote no in poll , bet that tank has so much swimming going on you would get dizzy from watching

TampaReefer79
02/04/2010, 11:52 AM
I'd like to know who voted yes, and why.

TampaReefer79
02/04/2010, 12:13 PM
And in the thread in question, they just came back with this: '120 gallons 3 vlamingi tang , 4 yellow tang , 1 purple tang , 2 tangs i am not sure the names of ,6 chromis,1 snowflake eel, 1 large marble wrasse, 1 scopas ,1 kole ,1 cherub angel

oh ya and 2 lyretail and 1 other anthias also'

ANOTHER club member came to his aid using the following thread as proof that this is good practice:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1534314


And to boot, 2 people have voted yes in the poll! What in gods name am I missing??? If you voted yes, please tell me why. Say this to yourself out loud...TWELLLLVE SIX INCH TANGS IN A 120. It doesn't even sound right. 24 total fish in a itty bitty tank.

timdam
02/04/2010, 12:28 PM
i can see your point. but u know, this guy paid for all these things. it's his choice. is it evil? maybe. but then again, like the person stated above, maybe we shoulda just left everything in the ocean. just my 2 cents too.

Beaun
02/04/2010, 12:36 PM
Is this a 4' or 6' tank?

Edit: I just saw it's a 4'

I would not put a vlamingi in anything less than 8' for long term survival, forget about 3 of them in a 4'. I've seen them in 20,000g displays and they use all of the 30' length.

This is an important paragraph from that link...
Given this, a small palette surgeonfish will have no problem being housed in as small as a 30 gallon aquarium, as long as there is ample open water and the aquarium is not overcrowded. Of course, a fish in such a small tank will eventually outgrow it, but this species increases in value as they grow (as opposed to some fish, such as large groupers that become less valuable as aquarium animals as they grow bigger). There is never a problem finding a new home for a larger, healthy palette surgeonfish. Any aquarium larger than 100 gallons would be suitable to house all but the largest palette surgeonfish.

3 Vlamingi tangs, let along 12 tangs total, in a 120 is overcrowded. I'm sure if you sent a link Hemdal of the post that linked to his thread, he would say the same thing. His thread was not about keeping tangs long term in smaller tanks. It is about keeping a fish of a certain size in a certain sized tank, it is silly to try and extrapolate out from there.

luther1200
02/04/2010, 12:57 PM
Not even close.

luther1200
02/04/2010, 12:59 PM
Someone in my local club posted a few days ago the following:

"i feed mine twice a day 1 time when i get up around 10-11 the other at night randomly . they are fat and happy with that .i have about a dozen tangs and 8-10 other fish in a 120 with them and no problems with them eatting.i have had the best luck with the lyretails. the purple queens are amazing looking but i dont know anyone who has had long term success with them ."

I posted right after quoting them asking if they were serious. I got no reply. So today they mention AGAIN that they have one dozen 6"+ tangs in a 120.

I let them know again that this is irresponsible and just insanity. Of course I got a reply this time and got flamed. There was actually other folks in the club sticking up for this madness.

Can anyone help me figure out when it became ok to house ONE DOZEN tangs in a 4 foot 120 gallon tank with 10 OTHER FISH??? Am I getting too old and outdated with my husbandry skills??

If you belong to a club that advocates this type of thing, I think its time to find a new club.

ChadTheSpike
02/04/2010, 01:05 PM
*****WARNING SOAPBOX*****
yet another example of why I think the cost of saltwater fish should be at least 10 times greater.

Beaun
02/04/2010, 07:36 PM
*****WARNING SOAPBOX*****
yet another example of why I think the cost of saltwater fish should be at least 10 times greater.

But then people would take better care of them, driving the demand down, thus the price would fall again. :lol:

TampaReefer79
02/04/2010, 08:06 PM
I am in shock right now. I'm getting beat in the head in my local club (was told to 'shut my mouth' and 'don't ask for help with your system' along with 'you are burning bridges'...all because I'm adamant that this guy has too many tangs (12) and too many fish total (25ish) in a 120. The majority are standing up for this nonsense!!!

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1789496

ChadTheSpike
02/04/2010, 08:08 PM
Not if 90% of the cost goes to programs such as reefcheck and S.M.A.R.T. (Sustainably Managed Aquarium Resource Trade), then demand would not drive the cost.

LS1 WS6
02/04/2010, 08:47 PM
*****WARNING SOAPBOX*****
yet another example of why I think the cost of saltwater fish should be at least 10 times greater.

Yeah but there are plenty of stupid people with money that would do the same thing! I do not think it should be stocked like that at all! Oh well I guess.

ChadTheSpike
02/04/2010, 08:53 PM
/end soapbox

:D I dont want to derail the OP

huskysglare1
02/04/2010, 08:58 PM
if you have bare bottom, lots of live rocks, filtering socks, good water flow, and a huge skimmer. i dont' see why not.

TampaReefer79
02/04/2010, 09:03 PM
if you have bare bottom, lots of live rocks, filtering socks, good water flow, and a huge skimmer. i dont' see why not.

:eek1::eek1::eek1::eek1::eek1:

eric@tampa
02/04/2010, 09:19 PM
How nice of the people of the Tampa Bay area to show the rest of the country how well we get along ie..."I'm not gonna help you" can't we act like mature adults and not a bunch of school kids.jmo so don't come down hard on this one

maroun.c
02/04/2010, 09:55 PM
Well I've seen a few restaurants and exhibitions "refill" fish just before an event to get that tank full of fish look on the requesnted day with fish starting to die off shortly after... bad things happen in this hobyy and I guess the best approach IMHO is to jus throw a comment like: owuldn't that be too much tangs for this size tank? and never throw the advice like an attack. still some people would accept constructive critics and some unfortunately won't till the day they realize they were wrong.

jmski333
02/04/2010, 09:58 PM
i could see maybe 5 tangs in a 120,

TampaReefer79
02/05/2010, 07:21 AM
How nice of the people of the Tampa Bay area to show the rest of the country how well we get along ie..."I'm not gonna help you" can't we act like mature adults and not a bunch of school kids.jmo so don't come down hard on this one

:hammer:

It's just insanity that people are sticking up for these types of practices.

Oh and I'd really like the 3 people that voted yes to post here with their reasoning.

WhoDey64
02/05/2010, 07:37 AM
While yes its wrong, I think its just as wrong to run to the main forum and blast a club member.

mnellis3023
02/05/2010, 08:11 AM
wow...that is crazy. Heck I feel bad having a Blue Hippo in my 125g, cant even imagine 12 in a 4 footer

username in use
02/05/2010, 09:13 AM
While yes its wrong, I think its just as wrong to run to the main forum and blast a club member.

Hit the nail on the head here. You pretty much are burning bridges, even if what he is doing is not right or you disagree with him, calling him out on an international forum is not the way to get your point across to him. Then you posted a link to the actual discussion so that everyone can see exactly who it is. I tend to agree with you about the stocking, but this wasnt very cool. All the kids in the sandbox need to play nice, even if one is using the shovel backwards.

snorvich
02/05/2010, 10:11 AM
Hit the nail on the head here. You pretty much are burning bridges, even if what he is doing is not right or you disagree with him, calling him out on an international forum is not the way to get your point across to him. Then you posted a link to the actual discussion so that everyone can see exactly who it is. I tend to agree with you about the stocking, but this wasnt very cool. All the kids in the sandbox need to play nice, even if one is using the shovel backwards.

In general, trying to convince someone else that they are wrong is like trying to order around another person's dog. Doing so in public is more likely to burn bridges than not.

TampaReefer79
02/05/2010, 10:17 AM
I don't care what club you belong to if these are your practices. You could belong to the Chaboygan club or the Hoboken NJ club and I'd have the same opinion and voice it the same. These are public forums and it's just too bad if someone got pointed out just because we're in the same club. As someone mentioned earlier "If you belong to a club that advocates this type of thing, I think its time to find a new club."

The reason I posted it here was that I was HOPING some of the responses here would trickle over to the club thread and he'd see that it's just not me that thinks it, and I'm not just 'picking on him'. Too many folks in the club are saying his tank is fine and that it's ok. It's NOT ok and if I burned bridges with someone, it's someone that probably does the same thing we therefore have nothing to talk about/nothing in common anyway. In the club thread it's like Me vs. Everyone else...which he wasn't even mentioned personally until he posted in the thread about his amount of fish in small tanks. That kind of put him out there and he therefore identified HIMSELF.

potterjon
02/05/2010, 10:20 AM
If they can get away with it, then let them. I can only assume there would be a whole lot of heavy water changes. You can't preach about ethics in this hobby. We all operate in a very gray area of ethics. If we were all concerned about ethics none of us would have tanks. One of my local lfs will not even sell regal tangs anymore to my disappointment. I am not saying this person is using "good" judgement in his tank, but he is allowed to put as many fish in there as he feels he or she can. I voted no in the poll, but he has the right to do whatever he wants.

potterjon
02/05/2010, 10:20 AM
by the way, it sounds like your local club is pretty lame responding to you that way.

TampaReefer79
02/05/2010, 10:23 AM
In general, trying to convince someone else that they are wrong is like trying to order around another person's dog. Doing so in public is more likely to burn bridges than not.

Point taken...and I agree with you. That wasn't my intention though. As I said in the post above, I hoped if a few folks went over to the club thread and gave THEIR opinion, it would seem less like I was picking on him just to be mean or something. This isn't personal, I don't even know the person.

Yes I went outside the club, but only after not only was it my opinion vs his, but then quite a few club members came to his rescue saying it was NOT a crowded tank...then the owner says he's adding MORE fish and is adding more tangs to the setup. Almost like he thinks it's funny and wants to see how many he can stuff in there. I don't know. If I could go back and start over, I can't say I'd keep quiet.

snorvich
02/05/2010, 10:31 AM
Almost like he thinks it's funny and wants to see how many he can stuff in there.

Yes, it is called trolling.

TampaReefer79
02/05/2010, 10:32 AM
I am not saying this person is using "good" judgement in his tank, but he is allowed to put as many fish in there as he feels he or she can. I voted no in the poll, but he has the right to do whatever he wants.

Here's the thing...you have your opinion and I RESPECT it. BUT, I don't have to agree with it. lol :spin3: Yes it's his tank and yes he bought the fish, but you think that means he can do as he pleases with them? That's where the dog in the crate analogy comes from. I bought the puppy and I own him, but I still can't treat it any way I see fit. There are people that will tell me I'm jacked up and there will even be consequences if needed. Why are fish different? I worked at a store a few years and I had a lady come in trying to buy a Lunar Wrasse but I knew she only had a 10 gallon tank...so I refused to sell it to her. She griped and complained but it was MY department so the owner told her tough nuggies. I'd MUCH rather shop at a store like that with staff that have standards for where the fish go rather than the store that will sell a 5" Powder Blue to someone with a just finished cycling 30 gallon. (seen that first hand - never went back)

Just my opinion and apparently mine differs greatly from most around. Maybe I need to go back to reading books rather than reading on the internet. lol If I see something I disagree with and feel it needs addressing, I'll do it. That's just how I am. If I hadn't told him his tank was jacked up, I'd be just as guilty as he is.

TampaReefer79
02/05/2010, 10:36 AM
Yes, it is called trolling.

Are you being serious or sarcastic? LOL I can't tell.

There's really a term for an overcrowded tank? Why is it called 'trolling'?