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kc350twin
02/07/2010, 12:16 AM
Well fellow reefers I am venturing deeper into this hobby and upgrading from my GlassCages 40 cube to a bit bigger tank. I received quotes from many tank builders and Miracles was the cheapest and Coast to Coast being the most expensive(I did not get a estimate from Elos). Yes, even cheaper than GlassCages. I'm not sure what the ladies problem that morning was but I called to get a estimate on the current size 48x30x18 and she said " We usually stop at 16" high, your going to have to pay as if it is 24" high" She the began quoting me for a tank that Base priced at $893 and with all the options totaled $1400+ plus $120 delivery.
I then called Derek from Miracles and when he told me about $300 cheaper shipped I had to ask him to send me the quote in email. He must have thought I was crazy because I asked him to repeat the price 4 times. Needless to say I placed my order a week later.

My old 40 Cube

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7066.jpg


My current holding Tank and soon to be sump :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7074.jpg

143gadgets
02/07/2010, 12:19 AM
Congrats!! Looking forward to seeing it.

Reefobsession
02/07/2010, 12:27 AM
congrats man!! I know this is going to be a great one. Your 40 gallon cube is so sweet. You sell it yet?

dh350twin
02/07/2010, 12:36 AM
Along for the ride....

the_rider
02/07/2010, 01:17 AM
Nice :) Tagging along

I have just setup my tank that are around the same dimesions as yours (60x30x20) also made by miracles :D Did you plan what equipements you'll use ?

kc350twin
02/07/2010, 09:52 PM
Congrats!! Looking forward to seeing it.
Thanks 143Gadgets. Your tank and coral selection has always been a inspiration.


congrats man!! I know this is going to be a great one. Your 40 gallon cube is so sweet. You sell it yet?
Yes it sold locally. Thanks!

Nice Tagging along

I have just setup my tank that are around the same dimesions as yours (60x30x20) also made by miracles Did you plan what equipements you'll use ?
Today 01:36 AM

Thanks Rider. Funny I just found your build the other night. I wish I could have gone with a longer tank but the budget is already blown and this should be a long build.
I am going to re-use a lot of items for now. The main thing is that I hope the skimmer will keep up. It's only rated for 90g. I think its under rated though. We'll see.

kc350twin
02/07/2010, 09:56 PM
I'd like to thank Dh350twin (shown below) for digging me out. As many of you know the east coast received a ton snow this weekend. We had close to 30" and it was a wet heavy snow. If it wasn't for him my back would have been blown out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7086.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7088.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7094.jpg

Reefobsession
02/07/2010, 10:38 PM
Nice neighbor you got there. I need some of those. lol

epleeds
02/07/2010, 10:51 PM
and so it begins.......

kc350twin
02/08/2010, 09:17 PM
Well I stayed home from work today because I'm sick and the roads are still bad.
I should have taken it easy but I have a little cabin fever.

I followed the DIY stand build thread and this is what I came up with. Dh350twin will say I over built it I'm sure. He was saying that when we picked the would up yesterday.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7103.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7100.jpg

It's ready for foam but I am feeling the weakness set in due to my illness. I'm a idiot for not taking it easy. Well plenty of time for rest because another 12" of snow headed our way tomorrow.

FranktheTankTx
02/08/2010, 09:35 PM
Wow! I don't know if I have seen 12" of snow in my lifetime. Crazy!!

Nice looking stand. I'll tag along.

kc350twin
02/08/2010, 09:41 PM
I also put up a new porch swing. :spin1: :spin1: :mixed:



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7077.jpg

After a recent purchase by dh350twin of a Constellation , I have decided to give T5's a try and bought a used 8 bulb ATI Power Module.
I thought I was really going to miss the shimmer but after a few bulb changes and visits to dh's house (next street over) I can really see their potential and the lack of shimmer isn't that bad. It is amazing how much one bulb change can make such a dramatic impact. I have to at least try it. I think from what I've read I can get away with less watt's and heat for this size tank.

Here I am testing the drywall anchors that are rated for 50lbs in wall. The ceiling I will be mounting it to is on a angle so it will not be a straight down pull. I placed cushions because I was scared as hell. The Power Module weighs in at 31lbs.
I placed a 9 lbs cushion on top plus 20lbs of weight on top of that. I could still tug on the cable and the anchors didn't budge.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7080.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7078.jpg

I then bought the 100 pounders just in case. Lets hope I get lucky and hit studs.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7106.jpg

kc350twin
02/08/2010, 09:42 PM
Wow! I don't know if I have seen 12" of snow in my lifetime. Crazy!!

Nice looking stand. I'll tag along.



Ha 12" on top of the 30" we just got.

dh350twin
02/08/2010, 09:52 PM
Nice job on the stand,I dont think you over built it.Whatever makes you sleep good at night. Just joking nice job as usual.Is there a 2 inch overhang all the way around?

FranktheTankTx
02/08/2010, 09:52 PM
Those anchors are great & you won't need to hit a stud. Drywall is very strong when drilling just a tiny hole into for anchoring. Rest assured, you'll be fine. Of course, this is only my opinion - Ha!

JCurry
02/08/2010, 09:55 PM
yep 30" plus 12"+ more tomorrow. Got love Maryland's weather. tagging along to see the new tank.

kc350twin
02/10/2010, 11:29 AM
Not much to add today. I'm home sick as a dog plus it's snowing like crazy. My T5's were supposed to be delivered today. UPS won't come out and I don't blame them.
I picked up some Kilz to prime the stand but I don't think I can do it. Maybe tomorrow.

FranktheTankTx
02/10/2010, 04:18 PM
I have a custom built stand as well (see pic below). Do you use the Kilz on the inside of the stand & canopy (in my case) or all over? Mine is unfinished & I will need to paint it at some point.

I've heard of a paint that is water resistant - kind of an All in One paint???

dakineacct
02/10/2010, 04:28 PM
Subscribed. Like the vintage skateboards against the wall near your 40 cube.

Tswifty
02/10/2010, 04:53 PM
Lookin forward to seeing this progress. I love Miracles tanks.

Glad to see your making it through the snow. I'm in western, PA and we got 22 inches last weekend, another 6 inches last night and it's still coming down! I'm so over snow. :lol:

mjk0301
02/10/2010, 04:53 PM
subscribed as well. I was looking into a similar style tank but don't have the room yet, i have to move first. By the way this snow sucks!!!! We just got 8+'' in the last 6 hrs.

r2nj
02/10/2010, 05:04 PM
Tagging along as well. I love shallow tank rimless builds. Looking good KC.

BTW, I'm in South Jersey. About 10" of heavy snow so far. I just came in from clearing my driveway. And no, I don't have a snowblower. Just gives me plenty of time to rest my sore back and catch up on some of these threads.

kc350twin
02/10/2010, 05:55 PM
I have a custom built stand as well (see pic below). Do you use the Kilz on the inside of the stand & canopy (in my case) or all over? Mine is unfinished & I will need to paint it at some point.



I've heard of a paint that is water resistant - kind of an All in One paint???

I will Kilz everything including the exterior walls as well. I'm just going to use a gloss or semi-gloss. I'll ask dh350twin about the all in one's. That's his field of specialty.


Subscribed. Like the vintage skateboards against the wall near your 40 cube.

Thanks! Skater for life......

Lookin forward to seeing this progress. I love Miracles tanks.


Glad to see your making it through the snow. I'm in western, PA and we got 22 inches last weekend, another 6 inches last night and it's still coming down! I'm so over snow. :lol:

Thanks Tswifty. I read your Vodka dosing thread. How's that coming?


subscribed as well. I was looking into a similar style tank but don't have the room yet, i have to move first. By the way this snow sucks!!!! We just got 8+'' in the last 6 hrs.

Tagging along as well. I love shallow tank rimless builds. Looking good KC.

BTW, I'm in South Jersey. About 10" of heavy snow so far. I just came in from clearing my driveway. And no, I don't have a snowblower. Just gives me plenty of time to rest my sore back and catch up on some of these threads.

To all the east coaster's. Hang in there. We are getting hammered.

theyammieguy
02/10/2010, 07:44 PM
I've never seen more than 1" of snow. LMAO.

What kind of skimmer is in that sump?

r2nj
02/10/2010, 07:56 PM
I've never seen more than 1" of snow. LMAO.

What kind of skimmer is in that sump?


Yea, we'll have at least two feet when we wake up in the morning. This is on top of the two feet that came down this past weekend.

kc350twin
02/10/2010, 08:15 PM
I've never seen more than 1" of snow. LMAO.

What kind of skimmer is in that sump?


It's a ATB Multi Use.......

Tswifty
02/10/2010, 09:12 PM
Thanks Tswifty. I read your Vodka dosing thread. How's that coming?

Vodka dosing was going great until my protein skimmer started breaking down. So I was forced to suspend it while the skimmer was being fixed. I just took a job in Ohio, so I won't be resuming the dosing system again until the tank is moved to my current residence. Everything is hanging in there though.

I still update my actual build thread occaisionally though:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1639131&page=45

kc350twin
02/10/2010, 09:18 PM
Here is the skimmer in hang -on mode outside the tank.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7107.jpg

kc350twin
02/10/2010, 09:22 PM
Good luck on the new job Tswifty. Hope the tank move goes well.

I have been reading a bit about the Biopellets. I'm a little skeptical on both Vodka and BioPellets. I tend to get lazy from time to time. :)

mojo~
02/10/2010, 10:47 PM
Did yo get any date on the done date yet. We ordered ours the same day so I wonder who will get theirs first :)

Maximus
02/10/2010, 11:04 PM
Do you know how long it takes Miracles to construct the tank? I may go for a Miracles rather than wait a couple months for a Leemar.

kc350twin
02/11/2010, 01:28 AM
Did yo get any date on the done date yet. We ordered ours the same day so I wonder who will get theirs first :)


Not yet. The bottom just went out Monday to be Tempered. I called them to double check the hole locations before I built the stand.

Do you know how long it takes Miracles to construct the tank? I may go for a Miracles rather than wait a couple months for a Leemar.

When I ordered they were running about 4-5 weeks lead time.

FranktheTankTx
02/11/2010, 08:16 AM
Ok, I must have jinxed us N Texans. We're getting 3-4" of snow today & tonight. ***???

theyammieguy
02/11/2010, 08:19 AM
Send some down my way. :-)

mojo~
02/11/2010, 10:44 AM
Yea they told me about 5 weeks delivered

kc350twin
02/11/2010, 06:59 PM
Well I was home again today with no snow plow in sight. Dh dug me out again!!!

Hung the light and added some corner braces to the legs of the stand. This really stiffened up the stand. Glad I put them in. I had to add them because I will not be permanently attaching the panels to the stand. I want access to as much as possible and the panels will either be hinged or magnet mounted.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7108.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7110.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7114.jpg

kc350twin
02/11/2010, 07:03 PM
Thinking of doing Marco Rocks anyone have opinions and/or experience with them?

Does it take a long time to become a "live rock" and handle filtering the water?

It's really cost friendly and will help my already bulging budget.

theyammieguy
02/11/2010, 07:07 PM
I plan on using marco rocks or bulk reef supply rock.

I've read good things about both.

Los
02/11/2010, 08:05 PM
KC-

Congrats on the build. Lookin' good so far and I can't wait to watch it progress.

Marco rocks are AWESOME. You really need to cure them, though. Stick them in a large garbage can, fill with saltwater when you do your next water change, and run a pump. You wouldn't believe how nasty the water gets. You pretty much have to do that with live rock too, but at least this way you're not getting a bunch of nasties hitching a ride into your tank. I couldn't be happier with the Marco rocks. You may also want to check out BulkReefSupply.com for their Pukani rock. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/brs-pukani-dry-aquarium-eco-rock.html

I've bought lots of both (you've seen it in my tank) and the Pukani is the nicest, lightest rock around. Just don't forget to cure that rock, either.

Cheers!

FranktheTankTx
02/12/2010, 10:29 AM
Wow! I don't know if I have seen 12" of snow in my lifetime. Crazy!!

Nice looking stand. I'll tag along.

Sorry to get off track again, but DFW, Tx just broke our record for snow fall in: 1) A calendar day & 2) 24 hour period. We got something like 12.5" of snow. I stated earlier in this thread that I had never seen 12" of snow in my entire lifetime & I'll be damned if I didn't see 12" of snow 48 hours later. LMAO!!! :lolspin::lolspin::lolspin::lolspin::lolspin:

dh350twin
02/15/2010, 01:59 PM
<a href="http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f139/dh350twin/?action=view&current=0211101420.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f139/dh350twin/0211101420.jpg" border="0" alt="2010 snow storm"></a>



Heres a pic of a friend from centreville ,Md really got hit hard.

Reefobsession
02/15/2010, 05:12 PM
Go with marco rocks. I would do all dead and put some live sand in there. I would hate for you to get bryopsis or other algae pests.

kc350twin
02/15/2010, 09:36 PM
Okay sorry for the lack of updates this weekend.

Light bulbs came from Aquarium Specialty Friday night. 4 Days late due to the snow but it gave me something to do ALL weekend. I have personally settled on this combo for now but will play with them later.

Blue+
AquaBlue special
Blue+
Fiji Purple
Blue+
Blue+
AquaBlue Special
Blue+

It replicates the Phoenix 14K very well with better Reds. I am hooked for real.

Dh and I bought a PAR meter as well but it's on back order until March. :(


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7117.jpg

kc350twin
02/17/2010, 09:07 PM
Okay buying a used ATI PM comes with issues. Ha Ha. I knew one ballast was acting up with a "No Fire" on the first time. If you switch the power on twice it would fire. The other I did not know about. This Ballast was Buzzing like "sizzling bacon". So I was advised by the Greg at Reef Geek to try switching bulbs and then switch the end caps to see if the issue followed them was unsuccessful. I then swapped the Ballast and both issues followed each other. So new ballast it is. What a Pain. There is no room what so ever in these things.

You can see why a PM cost so much. All extruded aluminum housing and very labor intensive manufacturing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7170.jpg

I have to admit, I was intimidated at first but now it's no problem at all.

Reefobsession
02/17/2010, 10:22 PM
Wow! that sucks man. Glad you figured it out. And I was scared to wire my ballast to my lunebright pendent. LOL

R.W.
02/17/2010, 10:24 PM
You have the same combo of bulbs I use. You will like the colours!

ChuckG
02/17/2010, 10:41 PM
The Marco Rocks Key Largo variety I received are pretty much sterile. I soaked some in RO/DI water for over a week and didn't get any ammonia or PO4 leaching from them.

I've read where others have had them come in with all sorts of organics but I think this was an earlier variety. The key largo are dug from a dry ancient reef and they actually process and cook these prior to offering them up for sale. From my experience you can pretty much rinse these in RO/DI water to get the dust off and toss them in the tank.

I like the placement of the tank in the room and the overall dimensions. Maybe my eventual upgrade will be a peninsula.. definitely will be tagging along.

Good Luck!

mojo~
02/18/2010, 07:54 AM
KC, have you called on your tank lately. I call on mine and they told me the bottome was out for tempering and should be back any day. will assemble next week and ship the week after. Just curious how yours was coming along.

kc350twin
02/18/2010, 04:57 PM
Wow! that sucks man. Glad you figured it out. And I was scared to wire my ballast to my lunebright pendent. LOL

Yeah it does but the seller has been in complete communication with me and has offered compensation. I only expect one to be paid for because I knew about one.

You have the same combo of bulbs I use. You will like the colours!

I really like the colors. I have not tweeked it at all but I'm sure I could get a little better coloring.

The Marco Rocks Key Largo variety I received are pretty much sterile. I soaked some in RO/DI water for over a week and didn't get any ammonia or PO4 leaching from them.

I've read where others have had them come in with all sorts of organics but I think this was an earlier variety. The key largo are dug from a dry ancient reef and they actually process and cook these prior to offering them up for sale. From my experience you can pretty much rinse these in RO/DI water to get the dust off and toss them in the tank.

I like the placement of the tank in the room and the overall dimensions. Maybe my eventual upgrade will be a peninsula.. definitely will be tagging along.

Good Luck!

I have them in a plastic tub full of SW and the room stinks today.

KC, have you called on your tank lately. I call on mine and they told me the bottome was out for tempering and should be back any day. will assemble next week and ship the week after. Just curious how yours was coming along.

I have not called at all. I hope I get a cool picture of the tank being assembled. I need to call and find out some info about the delivery. I guess I need to open the lid and check for damage before signing for it?

Kc3

ChuckG
02/18/2010, 08:01 PM
I have them in a plastic tub full of SW and the room stinks today.


Kc3


Huh.. are the the Key largo or Fiji; live or dry varieties? They sell both.

IME the Key Largo dry I bought you could just rinse and throw in the tank.

scomar31
02/18/2010, 09:55 PM
Tagging along....doing a 90 gal build and plan to go with T5's as well. I may need your neighbors tractor to dig out of my 3" of snow we got here in South Carolina!!!

kc350twin
02/19/2010, 11:49 AM
Huh.. are the the Key largo or Fiji; live or dry varieties? They sell both.

IME the Key Largo dry I bought you could just rinse and throw in the tank.


I bought the Bulk Reef supply dry rock. Mixed and it came with mostly Fiji. 3 pieces of Pukani and 2 pieces of shelf. I'm not super picky when it comes to rock. The smell isn't real bad but noticeable.

kc350twin
02/19/2010, 09:54 PM
Here is the rock and I quickly threw together a couple Islands. It is 50lbs of the Mixed dry plus I have rock from my previous tank.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7173.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7174.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7175.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7180.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7184.jpg

ECFENCING
02/20/2010, 05:57 PM
what skimmer do you plan on using for your tank?

Subscribed to this thread....Looking great!

Felix1021
02/20/2010, 06:31 PM
Looking good man. Nice stuff
f.

kc350twin
02/20/2010, 10:44 PM
what skimmer do you plan on using for your tank?

Subscribed to this thread....Looking great!


For now the ATB Multi use is going on it. I have my eye on the 840 1.5 though. :):):):):)

homeboyreefer
02/21/2010, 06:29 AM
cant wait too see this in action kc, this is the size i want, i got a powermodule also that i will move over :)

kc350twin
02/21/2010, 10:00 AM
I received the new ballast's Friday and tried to put them in. The newer ballast is shorter which makes my wiring shorter and the end caps then don't reach the end of the fixture. I wish ReefGeek would have told me that. So frustrating. :(
To top it all off the wiring is 18g solid core wire which no Home Depot or Lowes carries. As I found it at Radio Shack of all places. The Power Module is now fixed. :)

kc350twin
02/23/2010, 07:38 AM
I am already slacking on the updates.


Called Miracles and I am scheduled to be assembled this week.

mojo~
02/23/2010, 07:52 AM
Ill have to call as well. I wonder who will get theres first as we ordered on the same day...

kc350twin
02/23/2010, 10:34 AM
Not sure, but can't wait. What are your doing for flow Mojo?

mojo~
02/23/2010, 12:05 PM
I am just going to use my ehiem 1260 for my return, and dual vortech mp40w's

I figure that should do it. I havent descided on my sump yet. Ill make it. just not sure if it will be filter sock, skimmer and carbon. or to go with a refuge. All i use now is a 4 inch filter sock, skimmer , then my return pump with some carbon and gfo. I a leaning on just doing that again. only a 7 in filter sock this time.

kc350twin
02/24/2010, 12:45 AM
That should be plenty of flow. My buddy DH just got a MP40 on his 72 x 24 x 18 and I dial in a pretty nice wave with just one. The return pump was off and the whole tank had movement. I was really impressed.
I am going to try two MP20's for now since I already own one. I can always purchase the MP20 to MP40 upgrade kit. The only bad thing is that the 20's don't communicate. We will see.

Yeah I'm working out the details now on the water change vessel, sump and refugium. I was going to do a seperate refugium with a old wet/dry sump but I am thinking of slapping in a glass divider into the 40 breeder. I can't make up my mind and realestate under the stand is getting tight. There truely is never enough room.

missippboy
02/24/2010, 02:27 AM
posting to follow along

jdantunes
02/24/2010, 08:00 AM
Great thread so far! I got a Oceanic Tech 120 in my garage floor, I'm going to start working on the stand next week.

Suck about this crazy weather, here in FL temperature is around mid 60's and everyone is freezing their bones....lol!

Good luck with your build...

kc350twin
02/24/2010, 11:17 PM
Little update :)

I have changed my sump plans and going to add a in sump Refuge. I found this picture below on a thread and it got me thinking. I was just going to use acrylic baffles on the bubble trap but I know I will have to use glass on the Refuge wall. I was also going to have them just drill me a hole in the glass wall to insert a bulkhead. I didn't want the water to just cascade into the return section for fear of bubbles. What do you guy's think? or is the flow so slow it shouldn't matter.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/40breedersump.jpg

I will tweak the dimensions to my liking. a.k.a room for a 840 v1.5

kc350twin
02/24/2010, 11:19 PM
I also slapped the Multi on the rock tank and it went nuts.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7195.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7192.jpg

TheDogFather
02/25/2010, 07:26 AM
Exciting build! We were where you are now just a little over a year ago... You'll love the 48 x 30 x 18 Miracles tank, aqua-scaping is so much easier in a shallow tank!

I'd skip the second MP20 and go straight for the MP40W and upgrade your other MP20. You'll find the wireless control plus the increased flow of the MP40 worth the price tag.

One thing I've learned in this (expensive) hobby, is to not cut corners to save money. In the end you'll end up buying the better, more expensive equipment once you clue in that the cheaper stuff doesn't cut it. Do it right the first time.

Cheers!

-TDF

mojo~
02/25/2010, 07:32 AM
Little update :)

I have changed my sump plans and going to add a in sump Refuge. I found this picture below on a thread and it got me thinking. I was just going to use acrylic baffles on the bubble trap but I know I will have to use glass on the Refuge wall. I was also going to have them just drill me a hole in the glass wall to insert a bulkhead. I didn't want the water to just cascade into the return section for fear of bubbles. What do you guy's think? or is the flow so slow it shouldn't matter.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/40breedersump.jpg

I will tweak the dimensions to my liking. a.k.a room for a 840 v1.5

I have done this before. Had the return pump in the middle. It works well. but I found that if you run carbon and gfo. that the macro algae really doesnt grow all that much. Especially with a good skimmer on it as well. I went to a filter sock skimmer and a bag of carbon and gfo.

mojo~
02/25/2010, 07:35 AM
Oh plus make the baffles glass if its a glass tank. THe acrylic wont bond to the silicone. Not unless you paint the edge. Silicone will bond to the paint and the paint will bond to the acrylic. other wise use a lot of silicone. I had baffles cut at lowes out of glass and I think it was $11 just my two cents. just trying to save you some heartache later on.

TheDogFather
02/25/2010, 07:37 AM
If you're planning on running a ULNS (carbon dosing, zeo, or other) I'd skip the in-sump fuge all together. Maro algae won't grow in a ULNS and having a fuge in your sump makes a mess of your equipment IMHO.

You can grow pods pretty well in your DT by building a small pod hotel by using a small upside down mesh basket covered in LR rubble...

kc350twin
02/25/2010, 11:02 PM
Mojo- I am ordering all glass now. It's less than $20 for all the baffles. I am also ordering a piece of black acrylic to keep the light in the fuge. I have run GFO, Carbon and a fuge and seem to have had good luck so far. Is it all needed? I'm not sure. There are so many ways to get to a end result it makes my head spin sometimes.



TDF- Thanks for dropping in. Your tank and Grundig's are the reason I chose the size. The Power module scares me a bit though. When you and Mojo posted PAR numbers I was hesitant to purchase it. It puts out so much PAR.
You are making me second guess my decision on the MP20's. Yes I am skimping a little, but I really want to see if they are enough. If I am wrong don't hesitate to post "I told you so" Ha Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I also want to wait and see what the new Apex Vortech module is going to do.

I am also not trying to do ULNS but we will see. Vodka scars me a bit. Zeo is way too much for me. The Bio-Pellets interest me though. I have been reading a bit on them. If I go the ULNS route the one good thing about the DIY sump is that I can drain it and cut the baffle out if need be or make it a frag area.

TheDogFather
02/26/2010, 06:57 AM
Kc3, I think the Apex Vortech module will only talk to the MP40W via wireless. Since the MP20 does not have any means of external control you might as well just opt for the MP40W from the start... As for the Bio-pellets, those are a form of carbon dosing to aid nutrient export so you'll need extra space in your sump for a good fluidized reactor and the idea of using your sump as a frag tank would only really work with low light / low flow corals. You can forget about keeping SPS frags in the sump as they demand allot of light and flow. Your sump turn over rate should be fairly low so your skimmer and fluidized reactors can get maximum contact time with the water.

Cheers!

-TDF

mojo~
02/26/2010, 11:38 AM
I called miracles and all my glass is there and will be built next week and ship the following monday.

Thought I would share. I told them to ship mine before yours....lol jk

kc350twin
02/26/2010, 12:05 PM
Cool. Thanks for the update. I'm sure we are on the same time line. Can't wait.


I tested the PAR last night and it is crazy how much it has.

I'm getting 375 @26" away. Obviously not in water. Can I get a more accurate reading if I just put the sensor in a container of water?

kc350twin
03/02/2010, 03:55 PM
Derek sent me a pic. Getting close.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/2a1d2e46.jpg

TheDogFather
03/02/2010, 04:29 PM
Sweet!

nanoty
03/02/2010, 04:35 PM
Awesome tank, been interested in rimless lately.

kc350twin
03/02/2010, 05:07 PM
Ohhh! and TDF this is the official "You were Right" post. I took my MP20's over to DH's house and played around with them on his tank. They just don't compare to his MP40. Hands Down! He only has one on a 72" tank and it is plenty.

Unfortunatly it will be only one for now and one more soon to come.

mojo~
03/02/2010, 06:35 PM
I cant wait. I havent got a pic but I didnt ask for one.

kc350twin
03/02/2010, 06:46 PM
I didn't ask for one either. I did get a call today confirming the ship to address and some other info. Then a hour later I received the picture. Set to ship next week. Now I am getting excited. I wonder how long it takes for delivery?

dh350twin
03/02/2010, 08:04 PM
Nice i am getting excited for you and cant wait to watch in person the progress once you get it in on the stand.Not looking forward to helping carry it though......lol.This tank will be amazing cuz KC doesnt take shortcuts on anything.Goodluck Bro.

kc350twin
03/03/2010, 10:40 PM
Sump is taking shape. Glass shop called and I quickly hit the LFS to get another 40b.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7202.jpg

I had them add a piece of Black plexi 3" taller then the Fuge wall. This way I can cut teeth or add bulk heads easily.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7204.jpg

Johnny C
03/04/2010, 12:12 AM
Sounds like an awesome setup! I'll be going to Miracles in a few weeks, maybe snap a few pics while I'm there if Derek will finally let me! :lmao:

mojo~
03/04/2010, 06:55 AM
I havent heard from this week yet. I know mine was suppose to ship monday. Yours looks good. I think I am just going to get a 40 breeder as well . I have made my last several sumps from acrylic to give me the most room I could fit. I think It will be a good size and fit well. I like to see your pics of the progress.

Mojo~

mojo~
03/04/2010, 03:00 PM
KC, Any word on yours? mine is crated up ready to ship. I ll have to start a build thread as well. Well just thought I would send u an update. mine is like your tanks little brother..... lol.

Reeftanks6
03/04/2010, 03:07 PM
Looks like its going to be a good build. I also got hit with the amazing amount of snow. Sick of IT!!!. But cant wait to see some water and fish in the tank. Tagging along!!!

kc350twin
03/04/2010, 03:46 PM
Mojo--- I called today but didn't ask the status. I wanted to find out how long it takes from the day it ships so I can get a truck and some muscle on standby. The lady said about three days? That sounds too good to be true. She also said she would know what day it will be here once it ships. I can't wait it's killing me.

epleeds
03/04/2010, 05:28 PM
Derek sent me a pic. Getting close.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/2a1d2e46.jpg

Man......that is just pretty....how are you doing the overflow again? external?

mojo~
03/04/2010, 08:43 PM
Yours a corner overflow?
Mine is center.
Ill keep you up to date. I am still torn on the sump build my own out of acrylic or buy a 40br.

kc350twin
03/04/2010, 09:25 PM
I chose to put the overflow in the corner for a few reasons.
1. I wanted to be able to put it against the wall peninsula or normal.
2. Resale value. Not many people want a peninsula tank. Which led to Starphire on all sides. Again resale value.

I wish I would have drilled double holes so I could move the overflow to the center short side. Derek did say I could cut the overflow out and move it. Then just plumb the pipe
over to the existing hole and cover it with rock. I don't think it will be a issue though.

IridescentLily
03/04/2010, 11:05 PM
What a gorgeous tank.
I like the dimensions very much and have been planning one with the same length and width, except with a CtC overflow, and I don't plan on getting the cooler, more shallow height as you have.
I planned on Miracles as well after doing research for a long time but hadn't begun to get quotes from the various vendors yet. So I'm certainly glad to see another satisfied Miracles tank buyer/owner.

I look forward to your updates because it will my first reef (fowlrs previously) and I'd like to gain some knowledge from your experience on that kind/size of tank if you don't mind.

Thanks much for sharing this tank build with us.
*waves*

kc350twin
03/04/2010, 11:50 PM
IridescentLily---- Thanks and enjoy the ride. It's about to get real busy for me and I hope I can keep up.


Sump water check was A-OK

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7205-1.jpg

The Black acrylic was next and chose to do bulkheads for a cleaner look. I also want to run the drain from the Fuge over to the bubble trap possibly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7206.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7207.jpg

mojo~
03/05/2010, 06:55 AM
I like the bulkheads for the fuge. It will make it nice.
Did you order the bulkheads for your tank from Miracles? I added them to my order just to make sure everything was a exact fit. Just curious.

kc350twin
03/05/2010, 07:19 AM
Yes. Threaded bulkheads. Like you I wanted to make sure they fit and no searching around. Once this thing is here I think I will be playing hooky from work.

TheDogFather
03/05/2010, 08:04 AM
Ohhh! and TDF this is the official "You were Right" post. I took my MP20's over to DH's house and played around with them on his tank. They just don't compare to his MP40. Hands Down! He only has one on a 72" tank and it is plenty.

Unfortunatly it will be only one for now and one more soon to come.

No worries, I learned the hard (and expensive) way too!

Be sure to keep spare bearings and shafts for your MP40's on hand. They wear our in a little over a year and need to be replaced as I have just found out...

-TDF

kc350twin
03/05/2010, 08:27 AM
Thanks. I got your PM's last night. I would have shipped the parts to you no problem. Glad you got it worked out. I cannot believe Ecotech will not ship to Canada. Must be because of the Olympic Hockey game. ;)

Reef Chaser
03/05/2010, 08:57 AM
Looking good! Suscribed!

tigerarmy100
03/05/2010, 09:05 AM
That sump is nice! I cant wait to see it under that beautiful tank

TheDogFather
03/05/2010, 09:08 AM
Thanks. I got your PM's last night. I would have shipped the parts to you no problem. Glad you got it worked out. I cannot believe Ecotech will not ship to Canada. Must be because of the Olympic Hockey game. ;)

Thanks, I was in a bit of a panic! I was close to buying a Tunze to keep the flow going until I could get the parts shipped but then a friend agreed to loan me one of his MP40 wet sides he's not currently using because his new tank is still in the planning stages...

Cheers!
-TDF

GSMguy
03/05/2010, 10:05 AM
looks like a sweet tank.. like mine but deeper and slightly taller i think i might call miracles to see what they will charge me to get a new tank that will fit on the stand i have now.

Reeftanks6
03/05/2010, 01:55 PM
The sump looks really nice. Good work.

kc350twin
03/05/2010, 07:00 PM
Looking good! Suscribed!

Thanks for joining

That sump is nice! I cant wait to see it under that beautiful tank

Thanks! My silicone job is so sloppy. Looks good from a far, and far from good.

looks like a sweet tank.. like mine but deeper and slightly taller i think i might call miracles to see what they will charge me to get a new tank that will fit on the stand i have now.

GSM I haven't seen you posting much. Did you migrate to R2R like a lot of people? Good to hear from you. Hows the tank and that beautiful skimmer of yours?


The sump looks really nice. Good work.

Thanks!

kc350twin
03/05/2010, 07:03 PM
Well the MP20 to MP40w kit came and WOW!!!!!! Insane how much more flow it has. It took 2 min. to complete. I have to keep it all the way down in my 40b.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/3896f763.jpg

kc350twin
03/05/2010, 11:00 PM
Sump is just about done but I forgot to stop and get 1" pipe for the Refuge.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7211.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7213.jpg

In it's place

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7210.jpg

kc350twin
03/05/2010, 11:39 PM
Well the Power Module was back on the operating table tonight. If this thing did not put out crazy PAR it would have been gone by now. I replaced the final two ballast because of the buzzing and now it is quiet as can be.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7217-1.jpg

Light is @ 30" above the stand. I now see why everyone's pics look so blue. It's not that blue in person.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7220.jpg

283 Par @ 30" I estimate about a 100 PAR drop with water. Still not to bad.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7222.jpg

dh350twin
03/05/2010, 11:42 PM
that sump is banging bro......nice

theyammieguy
03/06/2010, 10:31 AM
This is the first time I've seen bulkheads and a spraybar in the sump. Could you tell me what it's for.

kc350twin
03/06/2010, 10:48 AM
This is the first time I've seen bulkheads and a spraybar in the sump. Could you tell me what it's for.

That is for the refugium. I'm suprized you haven't seen that before.

theyammieguy
03/06/2010, 10:50 AM
Nope, lol, never have.

kc350twin
03/06/2010, 12:31 PM
Well I just received the second half of the bill from Miracles. Paid In Full. I guess it's go time.

mojo~
03/06/2010, 01:59 PM
I got mine too. Paid in full. Funny really its like they are brothers. lol. Twins yours is a bit bigger though.

GSMguy
03/06/2010, 07:58 PM
I want to get a glass tank, that i can use vortechs on...

kc350twin
03/07/2010, 11:21 AM
Hey guys I am second guessing my sump dimensions.

The refuge cuts down on my overall length and after a fresh water test I am second guessing my set up.
The sump section is 24L x 18W with one bubble trap.

Skimmer section 10.5" x 18
Return section 8 x 18
bubble traps 1.5" each

I am going to be running about 400-500 gph through the sump do you guy's think it will be a problem?

mojo~
03/07/2010, 12:04 PM
I dont think it will be an issue at all. What are your concerns.

kc350twin
03/07/2010, 12:11 PM
Micro Bubbles for sure. Whoops I left that out in this post. I'm worried about total contact time.

GSMguy
03/07/2010, 01:29 PM
I would shoot for 300gph I tried hooking a flowstar 1500 up to my tank and I had to dial it back too much I'm back to the old 1250 and it's fine.

kc350twin
03/07/2010, 04:27 PM
Sounds good. I think I'm over thinking it. Stressing about the 3-5 times turn over rate going through the sump. The MP's will be doing the flow and plenty of it. I just want some other reefers opinions.

lobsterotomy
03/07/2010, 07:35 PM
kc, nice build so far! I can't wait to see the tank you're getting.

TheDogFather's is sweetness - I've seen it a bunch of times, and there's even space under it for me to sleep.

Just two questions - do you have a secondary tank spilling into the refugium section? Looks like there's another tank back there.

Also, what's that locline/spraybar stuff you've got there? Looks neat.

kc350twin
03/07/2010, 08:16 PM
lobsterotomy-

The secondary tank is a water change tank that will always be in loop and spills into the skimmer section. It is a 20H tank that will be fed by a either the overflow, off the return pump, or a separate pump.. Flip the the valve (or switch) it is then out of loop. Pump the water out, mix and heat new, wait 24 Hrs. flip the valve (or switch) and bring it back in loop. The water change is done.
No more humping buckets or jugs or pumping too much out or in. It's the same amount of water every time.

I was going to use that tank as a refugium, the thing that scares me with gravity drain refugium's is that the Cheato get's into everything and becomes more thing to worry about flooding.

The spray bar is what you said. It's LocLine with nipples. I used it on all my refuge's it allows me to try and eliminate dead spots in the cheato. I does not always work because again I'm scared of overflows and I back down the flow. The refugium is different though. It's in sump so if it overflows it just spills into the sump, not the floor.

Hope I answered the questions
Kc3

kc350twin
03/07/2010, 10:11 PM
Water tested the Fuge with a MJ1200 full blast and the overflow pipe is keeping up no worries. The end has a open 90 for a emergency plus the fuge wall is 1/2 inch lower then the tank.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7231.jpg

reefknight
03/07/2010, 11:08 PM
The whole system looks awesome! Tagging along to see the outcome. I really wanted a Miracles tank but decided on a DSA Neo 185. Hopefully I'll have some photos and a new build thread shortly.

kc350twin
03/07/2010, 11:45 PM
The whole system looks awesome! Tagging along to see the outcome. I really wanted a Miracles tank but decided on a DSA Neo 185. Hopefully I'll have some photos and a new build thread shortly.


Thanks. I'll keep a eye out for your build.

luan67
03/08/2010, 12:16 PM
I'm debating on getting a similar tank from Miracle also. Waiting to see how it looks like in your hands.

dh350twin
03/09/2010, 12:36 AM
can we see a different angle of that fuge test in action?

v1...rotate
03/09/2010, 07:33 AM
Great build!! A rimless tank and an ATI PM is the way to go IMHO :)

Where did you get the ballasts for your PM?

Thanks

kc350twin
03/09/2010, 07:49 AM
can we see a different angle of that fuge test in action?

Sorry, it's drained for some changes. Playing around with some ideas. Son's home sick today so I volunteered to stay home with him.
I feel there will be more changes once the tank is here. Never happy nor is there ever enough room. The 2x6's take up so much room it feels cramped. I should have used 2x4's.

kc350twin
03/09/2010, 07:54 AM
Great build!! A rimless tank and an ATI PM is the way to go IMHO :)

Where did you get the ballasts for your PM?

Thanks


Thanks for the kind words.

I bought the ballast's from Reef Geek. $40 each. The light is now over the 40br and I love it. The par is cut down by the water a bit more than I anticipated but still good. The surface of the water in my 40br has the film on it though due to no surface skimming or skimmer at all.

Reefobsession
03/09/2010, 08:19 AM
I can tell this is going to be a great build. There is no tank yet and there all ready 6 pages. lol. SO much anticipation. It would be really screwy if you were just pulling our legs about this mystery tank. haha Can you imagine?

kc350twin
03/09/2010, 08:44 AM
I can tell this is going to be a great build. There is no tank yet and there all ready 6 pages. lol. SO much anticipation. It would be really screwy if you were just pulling our legs about this mystery tank. haha Can you imagine?


Ha Ha, Waiting on April 1. Ha Ha. :frog:

Reefobsession
03/09/2010, 09:34 AM
Ha ha April Fools.

kc350twin
03/11/2010, 08:42 PM
Well I think I have settled on a plumbing layout. It's quiet and that's important to me. Obviously I don't have the main noise maker yet, but I don't think it will be a problem.
Don't laugh I need to get the final pieces and these were just what I had in my Misc. plumbing box.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7249.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7247.jpg

I ran the Fuge drain over before the bubble trap. It's probably over cautious but the pipe doesn't take up much room.

kc350twin
03/11/2010, 08:46 PM
The 40br on full t5's (sorry about the algae on the glass) My little make shift reef. Ha the wife says it looks like a fire hazard.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7233.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7244.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7243.jpg

v1...rotate
03/11/2010, 08:56 PM
Thanks for the kind words.

I bought the ballast's from Reef Geek. $40 each. The light is now over the 40br and I love it. The par is cut down by the water a bit more than I anticipated but still good. The surface of the water in my 40br has the film on it though due to no surface skimming or skimmer at all.

Thank you for that info...

Your tank is surrounded by carpet right? Amazing... if it was me, I'd spill water all over it. I have tiled floors and all I can say is... thank goodness for that. :D

mojo~
03/11/2010, 08:58 PM
looks like its coming along nicely. u figure out a skimmer yet?

reefknight
03/11/2010, 09:00 PM
Can you tell me the dimensions of each of your sump compartments? I'm in the process of laying out the design for mine and am trying to get an idea. Which ATB skimmer are you going to use as well? I'm considering selling my KZ small and purchasing an ATB or a Alpha cone. Sump looks great as well, I would like to see a closer view of your sump drain tee. It looks alot better than the one I've got on my current system.

Thanks!

kc350twin
03/11/2010, 09:12 PM
I'm going to use the multi for now. I want a 840 v1.5 but it's not in the cards right now. It should do alright for the time being.

kc350twin
03/11/2010, 09:24 PM
I'll post a close up of the tee tomorrow. It really made it quiet. It's a 90 elbow into a tee. The pipe facing up is helps vent the air bubbles. It has a hose barb on it which is not needed I was just playing around. I saw the idea in another thread here.

ChuckG
03/11/2010, 09:41 PM
The work on that sump is impressive.. I cringe when I look at my silicone handy work.

I have been meaning to ask you.. did you ever swap out your light anchors for the 100lb version... and did you hit studs or are they completely supported by drywall?

reefknight
03/11/2010, 09:52 PM
I'm considering the ATB 840 as I think the 10.5 will be overkill. Thanks for taking the time to explain you drain.

kc350twin
03/12/2010, 05:47 PM
Wouldn't you know that Ecotech Marine would come out with a new driver right after I bought a MP40w upgrade. TB Aquatics wont take back opened Items. So I just bit the bullet and Bought 2 and a MP40 Power supply.

http://ecotechmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ecosmart_030310_AFI.jpg

TheDogFather
03/12/2010, 06:19 PM
Wouldn't you know that Ecotech Marine would come out with a new driver right after I bought a MP40w upgrade. TB Aquatics wont take back opened Items. So I just bit the bullet and Bought 2 and a MP40 Power supply.

http://ecotechmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ecosmart_030310_AFI.jpg

They are sweet but I'm peeved that Ecotech keeps releasing irresistible products that my nerdy, reef gear obsession tells me I must have but cannot buy locally!

kc350twin
03/12/2010, 06:33 PM
Did you see that Ecotech is shipping to Canadian retailers?

I didn't make out too bad on one pump

MP20= 270.00
MP40w ES upgrade= 75.00
MP40 Power Supply= 50.00

$395 Total

The other pump I lost my butt on due to buying the MP40 upgrade a week ago. :(

kc350twin
03/12/2010, 07:55 PM
Got my Bulk Reef 2(3) part kit. So much cheaper than buying the pre-mixed stuff.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7262.jpg

kc350twin
03/12/2010, 10:53 PM
Can you tell me the dimensions of each of your sump compartments? I'm in the process of laying out the design for mine and am trying to get an idea. Which ATB skimmer are you going to use as well? I'm considering selling my KZ small and purchasing an ATB or a Alpha cone. Sump looks great as well, I would like to see a closer view of your sump drain tee. It looks alot better than the one I've got on my current system.

Thanks!


Sump dimensions

Skimmer section. 11x18
return. 8x18
fuge 11x18
give or take a little.
Baffles are 1.5" apart and 8" tall

Luckylouse
03/12/2010, 11:29 PM
I don't mean to highjack this awesome thread but I thought I would pot my new Miracles Tank. I have to tell you I'm thrilled with it. I didn't go rimless but I have the exact same light. I went with Euro Bracing but I added 4" to the length and and 2" inches to the Width for a dimension of 52" x 26". This give me the perfect opening at the top of the tank so the ATI PM Fixtures shines directly into my tank without hitting the Euro bracing. It works really well.
Anyways. For those that are interested in my Tank design.... Here's my thread. More pictures to follow. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1804039

Hamrock
03/12/2010, 11:31 PM
Great build!!

kc350twin
03/12/2010, 11:37 PM
Great build!!


Thanks!

reefknight
03/12/2010, 11:57 PM
Sump dimensions

Skimmer section. 11x18
return. 8x18
fuge 11x18
give or take a little.
Baffles are 1.5" apart and 8" tall

I am looking currently at 13" x 18" for the skimmer, 10" x 18" for the fuge and about 9" x 18" for the return. I was looking at spacing the baffles at 1" apart. All of these are of course approximate with variance for the the 1/4" glass for the baffles. Thanks!

Dejavu
03/13/2010, 06:21 AM
Great build, you'll love your tank from Miracles. I have been very happy with mine.

mojo~
03/13/2010, 05:03 PM
KC did you get your tracking # ? I got mine today.

kc350twin
03/13/2010, 06:09 PM
Nope, Your making me Jealous. Ha! emailed Derek a little while ago. Did you just contact him though the info@miracles email address? I will call them Monday though.

Kc3

kc350twin
03/13/2010, 06:13 PM
Wait! Derek just emailed me back and It went out on Friday. He doesn't have the tracking #on him though. I have to call on Monday. Oh man I'm so excited!!!!!!!!!!!!

dh350twin
03/13/2010, 06:42 PM
I don't mean to highjack this awesome thread but I thought I would pot my new Miracles Tank. I have to tell you I'm thrilled with it. I didn't go rimless but I have the exact same light. I went with Euro Bracing but I added 4" to the length and and 2" inches to the Width for a dimension of 52" x 26". This give me the perfect opening at the top of the tank so the ATI PM Fixtures shines directly into my tank without hitting the Euro bracing. It works really well.
Anyways. For those that are interested in my Tank design.... Here's my thread. More pictures to follow. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1804039




I don't mean to highjack this awesome thread but i will!!!!!!!lmao

kc350twin
03/15/2010, 09:35 AM
Well just checked the tracking # and the tank should be here tomorrow.

mojo~
03/15/2010, 09:40 AM
I l have to figure out where I am going to put my return. Might have to rill a hole in the overflow for it. What are your plans for yours ?

Av8bluewater
03/15/2010, 09:47 AM
Can you call them to see if they can move a little faster? Tell them we need some pics over here.

mojo~
03/15/2010, 09:49 AM
I posted some on mine.... lol I couldnt wait another day so I went and got it. I was just worried about leaving glass there. cant wait for the pics as well.

kc350twin
03/15/2010, 10:21 AM
Mojo- Im planning to add a bulkhead just below the water line for the return and use 3/4 locline.

kc350twin
03/15/2010, 10:22 AM
Oh and I may pick mine up tonight as well if it makes it here in time and I cat h it before it's loaded.

mojo~
03/15/2010, 10:27 AM
Mine was shipped ABF. They were really nice to deal with.

kc350twin
03/15/2010, 10:28 AM
Yup, ABF here as well.

kc350twin
03/15/2010, 09:58 PM
Hey I had some questions about the way I hung the light. (I forgot someone had posted the ? as well.)

I used the Buildex Toggle lock 100# ez-anchors.

http://www.easyanchors.com/Products.aspx?product=toggle&info=features

It seems to be holding up well. Only time will tell, one day I may have a Floating Power Module. The covers on the screws are the stock ATI PM hangers.

Thanks
Kc3

Reefobsession
03/16/2010, 08:35 AM
You will be fine. I Hung a large linen bright pendent which weighs about
30 lbs. I used two 35 lbs hooks from the ceiling and have had no issues. I think the 100 lbs is overkill, but better safe then sorry.

kc350twin
03/16/2010, 12:10 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/44561dd8-1.jpg

reefknight
03/16/2010, 12:19 PM
:dance: Woohoo, congrats on its arrival! :dance:

epleeds
03/16/2010, 12:31 PM
ok...its been 20 minutes...it should be open by now....hahah

HHIreefer843
03/16/2010, 01:16 PM
over an hour!!! im in organic chem and this is way more interesting!!!!! PLEASE OPEN THE BOXXXXXXX

mojo~
03/16/2010, 04:12 PM
Thats all I get.... Wow, lol. I put pics up of mine.

dh350twin
03/16/2010, 04:23 PM
Oh im sure there is some sore backs by now and pics coming soon i hope.........

TheDogFather
03/16/2010, 07:07 PM
W00T! C'mon, unbox already!

kc350twin
03/16/2010, 07:31 PM
Sorry Guys I had to take the helpers back to my work. Ha! It wasn't too bad. I had 4 guys and two of us carried it up stairs and then all 4 of us put it on the stand in like 10 min.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7273.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7269.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7264.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7268.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7272.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7267.jpg

kc350twin
03/16/2010, 07:33 PM
Whoa bad pics. Sorry....................

I have the sump up and running and Salty.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7275.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7274.jpg

v1...rotate
03/16/2010, 07:35 PM
Sweet tank dimensions!! Looks great!

mojo~
03/16/2010, 07:37 PM
looks great. youll have your full before me I am sure.

TheDogFather
03/16/2010, 07:44 PM
Look'n good!

I'm curious, why did you choose the corner overflow vs external coast to coast?

Looking forward to seeing it wet!

Cheers!

-TDF

dh350twin
03/16/2010, 07:47 PM
now i need a miracle......

TheDogFather
03/16/2010, 07:48 PM
I'm curious, why did you choose the corner overflow vs external coast to coast?


D'oh! I just noticed now that you're going peninsula style!

-TDF

kc350twin
03/16/2010, 07:48 PM
I don't know? I only have about 40 gallons of RO on hand.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7277.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7276.jpg

kc350twin
03/16/2010, 07:50 PM
D'oh! I just noticed now that you're going peninsula style!

-TDF


Yeah, right now I'm wishing I had put the overflow in the center rear. Like I said before I was undecided at the time of order. I could really go either way with this tank being so wide. I love it.

I probably should have tinted the back wall while it was on the floor. I left 4" for the Vortechs to clear.

ChuckG
03/16/2010, 07:56 PM
Yeah, right now I'm wishing I had put the overflow in the center rear.

Bah put some limo tint or a piece of black acrylic on there so you cant see into the overflow and call it a day. Tank looks awesome.. congrats!!

kc350twin
03/16/2010, 10:03 PM
Whoopsssssssssss Forgot the return nozzle.

Made a saran wrap and aluminum foil dam to catch the plastic.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7278.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7279.jpg

Man my focus is off tonight!

kc350twin
03/16/2010, 10:12 PM
I chose to put the overflow in the corner for a few reasons.
1. I wanted to be able to put it against the wall peninsula or normal.
2. Resale value. Not many people want a peninsula tank. Which led to Starphire on all sides. Again resale value.

I wish I would have drilled double holes so I could move the overflow to the center short side. Derek did say I could cut the overflow out and move it. Then just plumb the pipe
over to the existing hole and cover it with rock. I don't think it will be a issue though.


TDF- Sorry I missed you question but I wanted to answer your question a little more and I finally have a second to take a break before bed. Above is what I posted a few post's back.
One other reason is the cost. It was a bit more for external and the used up space really doesn't bother me at all considering the tank is nearly 3 times the size of my old one.

kc350twin
03/16/2010, 10:15 PM
Bah put some limo tint or a piece of black acrylic on there so you cant see into the overflow and call it a day. Tank looks awesome.. congrats!!

Yup, I have some left over limo tint and planned on using it.


Thanks!!!!!!!!

Man thread is moving fast.

reefknight
03/16/2010, 10:31 PM
Looking great! :thumbsup:

Luckylouse
03/16/2010, 10:38 PM
Limo tint is what I used on my Miracle. This is the only tint I would ever recommend.

105213


Yup, I have some left over limo tint and planned on using it.


Thanks!!!!!!!!

Man thread is moving fast.

dh350twin
03/16/2010, 10:43 PM
8 pages long and there is barely any water in it..i love it My build thread would be 1 page with 4pics Done.Then the mods would remove it for something i said...lol.

I cant wait to see the ati over it.

My final 4 bulbs should be here tomorrow with the r2 solutions lunar lights and module!!!!

the_rider
03/16/2010, 11:03 PM
Woot Woot !!!! I looks really nice :)

For the limo tint, I don't know if it's too late but you should ask derek about the vinyl they are using. I don't know what it is, but it's a black matte material that looks like a windows tint but I'm not sure. I think a matte material will not be notice as much as a reflective one.

Congrats again :D
Alex B

Luckylouse
03/16/2010, 11:09 PM
Trust me. Done right Limo tint is great. It's completely black from the view into the tank and tinted from the backside. This is great for servicing the back side.

dh350twin
03/17/2010, 07:37 PM
wheres the eye candy man.........................dont deny

Pacific Reefs
03/17/2010, 08:53 PM
Nice looking tank!!

kc350twin
03/17/2010, 09:20 PM
Here ya go. Up and running, plumbed and salted. Waiting on the temp......

The water noise is the RO/DI tank filling up in the background. It's really loud. I can barely hear the tank and with the ATI PM running I can't hear anything but the fans. That is the only down side to the ATI's

If you are on the fence about the new drivers don't be. It is amazing. One of my favorite thing is the "Off" button. Instant off and on. Goes back to exactly the same setting when you shut it off.

I ca't wait to get the second MP40 in the tank....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NdfU0OC9k4

mojo~
03/17/2010, 09:27 PM
looks good. I will start tearing my 57g down and finishing up the miracles tomorrow morning after I take the kids to school. hope it goes as smooth as yours.

kc350twin
03/17/2010, 09:29 PM
Nice looking tank!!


Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IridescentLily
03/17/2010, 10:22 PM
I'm so excited for you, it's looking great. Loving the Vortech wave. :thumbsup:

dh350twin
03/17/2010, 11:38 PM
i feel like your talking to me.....so i guess i will order the updated driver.lol This has surpassed all our previous hobbies financially,wouldnt you agree.Wait i just stared at my tank for 30-40 minutes and realized its worth it.Plus were not getting chased by helicopters.......

joeyvu
03/18/2010, 12:18 AM
what mode was the ES driver on? Have you tried the new modes and how they look? I plan to upgrade mine, just wondering if it is worth to spend 225 for three es driver....
Thank you
Nice looking tank....Look like an Elos tank...

SunnyX
03/18/2010, 09:48 AM
Looking good! :thumbsup:

kc350twin
03/18/2010, 09:18 PM
I'm so excited for you, it's looking great. Loving the Vortech wave. :thumbsup:

Thank you so much. I'm over here pulling hair out. HA Ha!!!!!!!!

i feel like your talking to me.....so i guess i will order the updated driver.lol This has surpassed all our previous hobbies financially,wouldnt you agree.Wait i just stared at my tank for 30-40 minutes and realized its worth it.Plus were not getting chased by helicopters.......

I think the ATV's were the most expensive by far. We bought so many of them. Maybe the Harley's were up there as well. Yes the driver is awesome. When I put the sand in I went and hit the "off" button. So great......

what mode was the ES driver on? Have you tried the new modes and how they look? I plan to upgrade mine, just wondering if it is worth to spend 225 for three es driver....
Thank you
Nice looking tank....Look like an Elos tank...

Hey it was in short pulse mode. I have not tried much else. So busy.

Looking good! :thumbsup:

Thanks Sonny. I look at your tank all the time and dream. You really set the bar.

kc350twin
03/18/2010, 09:31 PM
Well I was busy tonight. Rock is just thrown in real quick.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7286.jpg

Temp an salinity is close so I added the sand and rock. The rock is on it's 4 week in the tub. BRS reactor and ATB skimmer running now. Running a little carbon because the water is a little cloudy.

Need some opinions

I used AragAlive by Caribsea and rock is about cured I think.

Should I wait to transfer Fish, Coral and other LR? If so how long?

dh350twin
03/18/2010, 09:38 PM
wow the water looks pretty clear to me.....what about the sump area?Did you use all the sand?

kc350twin
03/18/2010, 09:39 PM
Nope only three bags. Got 2 left

ChuckG
03/18/2010, 09:58 PM
OK with both of you posting one after the other.. I finally have to ask. What is the similarity in the names?

Now to be appropriate and possibly add something to your thread.. MB7 sped my tank through a cycle in about 3 weeks.. and that is was with completely dead/dry rock...

Take that for what its worth.. It was the best I could come up with on short notice. :D

reefluv
03/18/2010, 10:55 PM
I hate to sound so clueless, but what is MB7?

mojo~
03/18/2010, 10:59 PM
I hate to sound so clueless, but what is MB7?

Microbacter 7 by brightwell aquatics

reefluv
03/18/2010, 11:03 PM
Kc3,
I have subscribed to your thread and am lovin it! Getting inspiration for my next tank. I currently have a RSM 130 which I've had for almost 3 years and am feeling the need for a 48" Miracle. Nice job with your sump and everything else. Looking forward to seeing your progress. Keep up the great work!

reefluv
03/18/2010, 11:07 PM
That's fast, thanks Mojo~. I'm the guy that bought your skimmer, nice work! I need a tank to go with such fine craftsmanship. What moron, buys a skimmer to upgrade a tank! Crazy hobby or addiction this is.

solRNY
03/19/2010, 05:22 AM
great build, another awesome miracles tank!

i am using the same foam "poly shield", did you find it to compress too much? is it adaquate?

your tank water line looks great, how low is the overflow slots from the top?

mojo~
03/19/2010, 06:51 AM
That's fast, thanks Mojo~. I'm the guy that bought your skimmer, nice work! I need a tank to go with such fine craftsmanship. What moron, buys a skimmer to upgrade a tank! Crazy hobby or addiction this is.

I hope you are liking the skimmer and I remember you. Only ever made 3 skimmers so I remember all three that I have sold. lol

Sorry KC dont want to de rail your thread.Looks like we are about on the same pace to get done with our builds. What are your plans for the stand. Are you going to skin it or leave it as is? I am liking the tank for sure. Also did you make your own durso? or did you buy the one from miracles.

One last thing. Are the cuts on your overflow box kind of rough? The only neg thing to say about the tank is that the slots on the overflow were not sanded down. left very rough.

look forward to more pics tonight//// hint hint..

kc350twin
03/19/2010, 07:36 AM
OK with both of you posting one after the other.. I finally have to ask. What is the similarity in the names?

Now to be appropriate and possibly add something to your thread.. MB7 sped my tank through a cycle in about 3 weeks.. and that is was with completely dead/dry rock...

Take that for what its worth.. It was the best I could come up with on short notice. :D

ha. I grew up with DH and we both rode ATV's way back in the day.
The four wheelers where 350cc twins's

thanks for the advice.

kc350twin
03/19/2010, 07:38 AM
Kc3,
I have subscribed to your thread and am lovin it! Getting inspiration for my next tank. I currently have a RSM 130 which I've had for almost 3 years and am feeling the need for a 48" Miracle. Nice job with your sump and everything else. Looking forward to seeing your progress. Keep up the great work!


Thanks and glad I inspire someone. Hope I see a reefluv build soon.

kc350twin
03/19/2010, 07:42 AM
great build, another awesome miracles tank!

i am using the same foam "poly shield", did you find it to compress too much? is it adaquate?

your tank water line looks great, how low is the overflow slots from the top?

Thanks. The poly shield is working well. I thought it would compress more than it is. This is my first time using foam so I don't know what to expect.

I'll get some pics and/or measurements of the overflow when I get home.

TheDogFather
03/19/2010, 07:52 AM
Here ya go. Up and running, plumbed and salted. Waiting on the temp......

The water noise is the RO/DI tank filling up in the background. It's really loud. I can barely hear the tank and with the ATI PM running I can't hear anything but the fans. That is the only down side to the ATI's

If you are on the fence about the new drivers don't be. It is amazing. One of my favorite thing is the "Off" button. Instant off and on. Goes back to exactly the same setting when you shut it off.

I ca't wait to get the second MP40 in the tank....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NdfU0OC9k4

Nice! Are you not worried that the wave action will weaken the silicone? I'm way too paranoid to setup a wave with my MP40W's...

-TDF

dh350twin
03/19/2010, 08:04 AM
OK with both of you posting one after the other.. I finally have to ask. What is the similarity in the names?

Now to be appropriate and possibly add something to your thread.. MB7 sped my tank through a cycle in about 3 weeks.. and that is was with completely dead/dry rock...

Take that for what its worth.. It was the best I could come up with on short notice. :D





Yeah we grew up together and have had alot of hobbies we shared in.Reefing being one that i have been into for a long time.But we both had Yamaha banshee 350cc twin carb atvs and both used the names in e-mail,forumns,etc.Very easy to remember(for me anyway).

Sorry for side tracking the post.......

kc350twin
03/19/2010, 08:07 AM
I hope you are liking the skimmer and I remember you. Only ever made 3 skimmers so I remember all three that I have sold. lol

Sorry KC dont want to de rail your thread.Looks like we are about on the same pace to get done with our builds. What are your plans for the stand. Are you going to skin it or leave it as is? I am liking the tank for sure. Also did you make your own durso? or did you buy the one from miracles.

One last thing. Are the cuts on your overflow box kind of rough? The only neg thing to say about the tank is that the slots on the overflow were not sanded down. left very rough.

look forward to more pics tonight//// hint hint..

No problem at all.

I did build my own durso out of 1.5 pipe. It is nearly silent.
The stand will have doors on all three sides for total acces to the sump. I may do slides but at the length I need they are expensive.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7282.jpg

kc350twin
03/19/2010, 08:10 AM
Oh the cuts in the overflow are a little rough just like yours.

I will be lowering the durso a little to make a cover out of black acrylic. It's on my "to do" list.

mojo~
03/19/2010, 08:23 AM
Oh the cuts in the overflow are a little rough just like yours.

I will be lowering the durso a little to make a cover out of black acrylic. It's on my "to do" list.

Funny you say that. ITs on mine as well.

Looking good Checking up on it every couple hours. Well back to maxing saltwater. Tank is full just topping off sump and then Ill be firing it up in about 10 minutes on mine. Hopefully all goes well like yours did.

Mojo~

kc350twin
03/19/2010, 10:05 AM
Nice! Are you not worried that the wave action will weaken the silicone? I'm way too paranoid to setup a wave with my MP40W's...

-TDF


It's definitely on my mind but I did it in my Glass cages tank. If it's going to break I want it to break now.....:)

kc350twin
03/19/2010, 10:06 AM
Sorry for side tracking the post.......


No problem at all......

ChuckG
03/19/2010, 12:24 PM
Ha good deal guys.. I grew up in so cal going to the desert several trips each winter. The last quad Dad bought was the blaster.. I moved out and away from so cal a long time ago but have always lusted after the banshee!

Nothing better than the sound of a 2 stroke wailing past camp at 6 am.. good times! :beer:

EDIT: ERr uh.. 4 stroke.. It's been a while.. 2 strokes too. :)

mnml
03/19/2010, 12:33 PM
Awesome build! Those Miracle tanks sure look nice.

kc350twin
03/20/2010, 12:32 PM
Sorry guy for the lack of responses... Tonight I promise... Soooooo Sleepy.. up very late.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7287.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7288.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7289.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7293.jpg

GSMguy
03/20/2010, 01:03 PM
WOW! looks Great, That settles it for me I need a powermodule and a glass tank that I can use Vortechs on, the Video is awesome, are you running that wave 24/7?

epleeds
03/20/2010, 02:29 PM
i saw that you don't have the tabs to keep your vortech from falling off your tank and hitting the floor. are you going to use them, or just hope that they stay put....

dh350twin
03/20/2010, 03:42 PM
Wow it looks great bro,I cant wait to see the purple tang swimming around in there.

VtheMaestro
03/20/2010, 04:59 PM
subscribed

kc350twin
03/20/2010, 05:37 PM
WOW! looks Great, That settles it for me I need a powermodule and a glass tank that I can use Vortechs on, the Video is awesome, are you running that wave 24/7?

Thanks Nick, I don't run them on wave at the moment. I have them set low on reefcrest while everything settles in.


i saw that you don't have the tabs to keep your vortech from falling off your tank and hitting the floor. are you going to use them, or just hope that they stay put....

Man, I just threw them up quickly at 4 am. I'm still playing with the locations

Wow it looks great bro,I cant wait to see the purple tang swimming around in there.

Thanks bro. The tang is almost too big. He added a lot of life to the tank. Now all the fish swim like crazy. He's eating Nori like a horse 10 min. after I put him in.

reefluv
03/20/2010, 07:28 PM
Man, you've been busy! Looking great, love the cave and valleys aquascape. Is that purple fish a black cap basslet?

kc350twin
03/20/2010, 08:47 PM
subscribed


Welcome aboard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

solRNY
03/20/2010, 10:49 PM
aquascaping is looking stunning!

what is really amazing is the foam underneath bearly looks like its compressed all under ~900lbs of weight!!

ChuckG
03/20/2010, 11:37 PM
Peninsulas are sweet.. almost like having two tanks in one.. and this one looks fabulous. Good work!

VtheMaestro
03/21/2010, 12:14 AM
aquascaping is looking stunning!

what is really amazing is the foam underneath bearly looks like its compressed all under ~900lbs of weight!!

what is the foam underneath for? and what type of foam is it?

kc350twin
03/21/2010, 09:34 AM
aquascaping is looking stunning!

what is really amazing is the foam underneath bearly looks like its compressed all under ~900lbs of weight!!

Thanks.

The foam is barely compressing and I'm suprized about it actually. I will try and get some side shots of it. It may be compressed a 1/8" or so

kc350twin
03/21/2010, 09:40 AM
what is the foam underneath for? and what type of foam is it?

Most of the rimless tank builders recommend running foam to help compensate for any impefections in the stand because the bottom is a large flat sheet of glass. It is 1/2" Poly Shield from Home Depot.

kc350twin
03/21/2010, 09:45 AM
Man, you've been busy! Looking great, love the cave and valleys aquascape. Is that purple fish a black cap basslet?

Thanks so much. The aquascape came together pretty quick except for one corner. I stood there for two hours stacking the same 4 rocks. I still need to tweek it a bit.
The fish that you are talking about is a Orange Tail Blue Damsel. The Blue+ bulbs make him look weird.

dh350twin
03/21/2010, 10:01 AM
when are we goin to see a peek of that beautiful show tang you just got.

VtheMaestro
03/21/2010, 11:34 AM
Most of the rimless tank builders recommend running foam to help compensate for any impefections in the stand because the bottom is a large flat sheet of glass. It is 1/2" Poly Shield from Home Depot.

thanks, i guess i need some! >> my rimless build (http://bit.ly/maestro57gRC)

kc350twin
03/21/2010, 04:03 PM
when are we goin to see a peek of that beautiful show tang you just got.


Soon I promise. I had to do family duties today and not much tank time today. Maybe later.

kc350twin
03/21/2010, 08:30 PM
Ask and you shall receive.....................

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7311.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7310.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7304.jpg

poor Tourch coral has been through though thick and thin.

dh350twin
03/21/2010, 08:44 PM
Nice,He doesnt look as big in your tank as he did in DR.Macs,he is a outstanding purple tang.

mojo~
03/21/2010, 09:22 PM
lol, I picked up a powder blue for mine today almost got a purple.... thats funny.

kc350twin
03/22/2010, 08:01 AM
I decided last night to play around with the mp49w ES drivers and they wouldn't link up. Then I noticed that on "W" was not lit up. I pulled the drivers back apart and Ecotech forgot the wireless module in one of them. Bummer, they are sending me one out today.

kc350twin
03/26/2010, 05:49 PM
Okay I have been really slacking on the thread.

I have rearranged a few things and slowly getting the sump in order. I am currently working on sourcing hinges to fit on my stand. The design of the stand that I took from the DIY thread is not the best for the style of skin and door I want. So after looking through pages and pages of hinges I think I have found what will suit my needs.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Images/products/02R80.jpg

It is a face mounted hidden hinge. I am doing doors similar to v1...rotate's but on hinges instead of drawer slides. (All of his pics are down at the moment)

kc350twin
03/26/2010, 05:55 PM
The tank is doing well but has a big Diatom bloom at the moment. It's getting lighter every day but still looks like hell.

I finally know what skimmate is supposed to look like. I have had such small bio loads in the past I never really was able to get dark skim. Well now the ATB pulls very dark skim all the time.

This is one day of skim with 1 Lg Purple Tang, 1 Damsel, and 2 Clowns.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/kc350twin/IMG_7320.jpg

Bouncer
03/26/2010, 07:54 PM
+1 on the euro hinges. Those are similar to mine... Very easy to fine tune. How big is your purple tang & how long have you had it?

kc350twin
03/26/2010, 09:50 PM
My tang is about 4.5-5 inches. I have had it for one week so far.

Dejavu
03/26/2010, 11:41 PM
Okay I have been really slacking on the thread.

I have rearranged a few things and slowly getting the sump in order. I am currently working on sourcing hinges to fit on my stand. The design of the stand that I took from the DIY thread is not the best for the style of skin and door I want. So after looking through pages and pages of hinges I think I have found what will suit my needs.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Images/products/02R80.jpg

It is a face mounted hidden hinge. I am doing doors similar to v1...rotate's but on hinges instead of drawer slides. (All of his pics are down at the moment)

These are the same hinge I used on my stand. They are call European hinges and you can find the at Lowe's. The nice part about the is they are adjustable up and down and side to side. The down side it the rust pretty easily and they are expense.

shaunt
03/27/2010, 11:19 PM
your aquascape looks amazing and is an inspiration

reefluv
03/28/2010, 06:42 PM
"Slacking" you and Mojo~ have been moving at lightning speed. I love your progress and enjoy your updates. The purple tang is beautiful. Let us know how he adjust to his new home.

dh350twin
03/28/2010, 06:54 PM
yeah you have been slacking lol......is that beast eating you out of house and home?