divers den 8 1/2 achilles

[mtbiker41]

did anyone see the 8 1/2 achilles divers had friday?after talking to Greg at DD for about hour about this fish I pulled out the plastic told the wife I found what I wanted for V day.I've read the achilles primer thread end to end once and reread most of it .I have a 340 gallon system thats been running for a year it has 50 gal. sump with with 40 gal. refugium w/2lbs ori ,cantalope size cheato,and a 1/2 lb. of calurpa.my parameters are nitrates 0,nitrites,ph 8.0,ammonia is 0.I'm buffing daily now to bring up ph.I have a dolphin 3500 for return and 2 seio 2600s,a coralia and twin prop coralia 2600 knock off for circulation. about 300lbs of live rock in tank, skimmer is a huge euro-reef .what can I do to get more oxygenated water as everyone says they need lots oxygenated water in the system. my livestock is mostly 3 to 5 " but I have a dussemeri thats knocking on 10".I have about 16 fish total .as most have said he will be put straight into display and probably sectioned off to one side of the tank until he gets adjusted .any advice on how to best prepare for this guy.oh yea doing a 65 gallon water change today.thanks mtbiker41

[tcmfish]

I would QT.

[mtbiker41]

I would QT.
everyone that has one living is against qt unless have a huge qt tank.I do have a 55 but its not running.I'm doing a water change tonight and could use that to fill up but just have a cheap hang on filter to run it.do you have one and how old is it if so and what have you done to insure its health?

[Korrine]

what you could do, imo, is pull some rock that you may have in your sump or display and put it in your 55 w/a power head and the water change water. Instantly cycled tank :)

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AchillesTgArt.htm

[tcmfish]

I don't currently have one, but think of it this way. It is a touchy fish. If something goes wrong it will probably be one of the first to show signs (ich usually), and things always go wrong. If the fish is healthy initially (from DD) surviving QT should be no problem. The reason most say go straight to the display is they probably think it will die in QT or won't eat. It is my opinion that all fish should be QT, so when things go wrong disease won't be an issue.

[hybridazn]

my only ? is if this fish is that size, would a 55 be enough room to hold it even for a few weeks? the AT is a very finicky fish and requires a ton of swimming room. one of that size i dont think would fair well in a 4 foot tank (assuming it is a standard size 55 gal tank)

i too have read the primer and as you stated it seems like everyone who has QT'd has ended badly. i had a problem with PBT that had a little bit of ich on it when i bought him, QT'd him for about 3 1/2 weeks, and he just up and died on me. after that i have never QT'd another fish and none have died on me. So i tried again and added him straight to DT with great results.

it's almost like russian roulette with these fish, best of luck to you and please post pics of this guy! the AT is my fav. fish

[tcmfish]

LFS's hold big fish in small tanks temporarily all the time. It should be fine in QT. The water quality has to be monitored in the QT and you have to have healthy fat fish to treat because meds can be taxing on fish so trying to get fish to eat and treating should not go hand in hand. The fish should first be eating then treated.

My counter question is... with a fish that size, he is probably going to a big tank (this case 340 gal.) which probably means quite a few fish, would you want to deal with all those fish getting sick if something ever did go wrong?

[sanchoy]

Just heads up.. most PBT,Hippo,and achilles will get ick 95% of the time. At least a small break out of it. So by quarantine you will have a small break out, and when you put him into DT you will again get another phase. This happened to 2 of the fellow reefers i know, and myself personally.

To be honest, if the fish comes in healthy looking, fat stomache, no signs of ick. With the price you are paying, I would put directly into DT. If it comes skinny and with ick, than of course QT. Thats just my 2 pennies worth.

I have an achilles, he came in medium build. Threw him directly into DT. He got small breakout of ick, than it vanished. My friend put his into a QT, his fish later died because it couldn't fight off the ick and starved to death.

[jmccown]

I agree to put directly in DT. I'm one of those who never had any luck with a QT. Seems everything I tried to QT died, all of those that went to DT have thrived. To me it seems they pick up on the others' feeding habits and coaxes them into the same habits.

[stunreefer]

Not pointing fingers, but with 99% of the people I've seen mention "I never have luck with QT" their QT is inadequate. QT tanks should be set up and maintained exactly the same as a DT. Cycled, water changes, the whole thing. I run HOB filter, heater, live rock and live sand. It is comfortable for the new (stressed) fish, and I can observe his eating behaviors and treat accordingly if necessary. A bare tank that has instantly been set-up is no place for a stressed fish still needing to be acclimated to captivity. In QT the main killer is ammonia, so it's our job to ensure that there is a properly established filter on it (be it HOB, sponge, etc.) and that we have plenty of fresh mixed salt water ready for large water changes as in effect we are the filter when ammonia creeps up.

Jason does have a point regarding other dither fish that already accpet prepared foods coaxing the newcomer to "try" the foods we're offering, but a fish coming from DD no doubt has already been accpepting prepared foods that you can offer, do the dither fish argument is somewhat put to rest. A good rule of thumb is to never purchase a fish unless your sure that it's been eating a range of prepared foods for quite some time.

[jmaneyapanda]

I have a tiny one taht spent 4 weeks in QT with no issue. Like TCM said, what do you think theyre housing it in at Rhinelander? A 300 gallon? Its in a smaller holding system mroe than likely.

[Untamed12]

That is a very large AT. One thing I would consider is that I have had more luck with purchase of younger, smaller fish...than I have with older, full grown fish. It isn't that I can't keep them alive, it is that they don't adapt well to captivity and seem preoccupied with trying to escape all the time. (that's a general comment, not specific to ATs)

To your oxygen level question....huge skimmer. I don't mean expensive, I mean physically huge so you can flow large amount of water through it.

My AT has always had ich...will be three years assuming he lives to May, 2010.

[sufunk]

Against my better judgement, i added an Achilles to my 180g about 6 months ago. It was ich free and eating at my lfs which i trust 100%. Because of that, i didnt qt (for the 1st time) as i didnt want to stress it out in my little 20g qt.

Long story short, even though he ate at the lfs in my presence numerous times, he would NEVER eat in my display. He acted like he wanted to but got spooked when any of my other fish, even a tiny anthias came near him. After a few days, he came down with ich which he spread to my other tangs. My other tangs continued to eat like pigs so the ich went away but the achilles never recovered. He got thinner and thinner until he died after almost 3 weeks.

I've been in this hobby for over 5 years and he was the only tang i've ever had die on me. The other 4 i've bought are all still alive and happy. I may try another one in the future but this time i will definitely qt. I dont know that it would have made any difference but i've been kicking myself for months for not qt'ing that awesome achilles:(

[tcmfish]

Treat each fish that goes in the display, or you will be left with treating all your fish when something goes wrong at once, which will be a lot harder.

[mtbiker41]

my experience using qt hasn't been good but that could be because I tried using water change water a couple days before fish arrived.I didn't use live rock but used a hang on filter and a charcoal reactor.and after adding fish ammonia would go up even doing daily water changes. as one poster said I believe if your going to use qt it should be up and running cycled .so if I do the same but use live will this reduce ammo spike?I really don't want to infect and treat my dt.I have a few of my wifes fish that made it a thru a fire and tank busting then living in a bathtub for over 2 months .2 being a leopard wrasse 4 years old about and purple tang probably 5 yrs old.so I really would hate lose them to this.

[Creetin]

I have QT them and i have DT them. I seen the benifits of the DT has on them and i have seen how they wither awat in QT tanks. I have also see how they bring stuff with them into the DT. I run a proper QT, But its always been a QT no sand and rock. It doubles as a Hospital tanks so the fish does not get pulled out to get treated.
I have had a few AT's and of the QT ones none of them lived longer than a week in QT.
Austin remember waynes AT? He didnt QT it, or any of is fish for that matter. I have never seen any fish die from him unless it got stuck in a overflow or something in that nature.

I am not supporting just dumping your fish in the DT, But I believe theres more than just dumb luck going on here too. JMO

[jmccown]

If a person had a big enough tank, say at least a 75 or 125 gallon or so to dedicate as a QT tank then I could see that as being beneficial, but the fact is that most average people do not have the space or money to set up and maintain a seperate tank apart from their main displays. Most people use anywhere from a 10g to a 55g as a QT tank, which will work fine for really small fish. But for tangs, angels, etc. they need a bigger tank to move around in, a 55g just simply isn't going to cut it. I agree with Creetin and will continue to be an advocate for not QT in this case.

[michealprater]

Did you get the fish? How is it doing?

[jmaneyapanda]

If a person had a big enough tank, say at least a 75 or 125 gallon or so to dedicate as a QT tank then I could see that as being beneficial, but the fact is that most average people do not have the space or money to set up and maintain a seperate tank apart from their main displays. Most people use anywhere from a 10g to a 55g as a QT tank, which will work fine for really small fish. But for tangs, angels, etc. they need a bigger tank to move around in, a 55g just simply isn't going to cut it. I agree with Creetin and will continue to be an advocate for not QT in this case.

I will respectfully disgaree 1 million percent. I am finishing QTing 2 medium sized (4-5") angelfish in a 29 gallon that, as mentioned, if properly setup can provide a very suitable short term home. 8.5" is a big fish, but a 4 foot 55 gallon would be more than adequate, if water quality is maintained.

I still find it quite unbelieveable that so many people are willing to purposefully omit QT nowadays. It really blows my mind. To put not only the fish in question, but every other fish in the tank DIRECTLY into harms way by skipping seems absurd to me. That is just my opinion, though. Take a look at Chingchai's build in the large tank forum. He lost nearly ALL his fish to velvet because he didnt want to "stress" his fish by QTing them. Including some very very $$$$ fish. He now QT's. Its foolish not to.

If someone can afford the 8.5" Achilles from DD, they can afford a properly prepared QT setup, IMO.

But, to each, their own.

[michealprater]

IME when someone wipes out all their fish without using QT, they learn real fast from the err of their ways. It is best to encourage people to do the right thing, however, as long as there are people that say "I never QT and never have problems", unfortunately there will be some hard lessons learned. Once ich is in the display, as long as there are fish, it is there forever regardless of whether you can see it or not. My recommendation is to QT the fish in the 55 with a HOB filter and some PVC (large PVC in this case). Do at least 50% water changes weekly for at least 6 weeks. Monitor ammonia closely and use prime or amquel to bind it incase is spikes quickly.

[kirkaz]

For an Achilles that large, if I were doing it I would forgo QT, however I have never bought such a large fish, and I would never advise someone else to not QT something....So QT it:D Like Tim & Jeremy said, it's not like it's hanging out by himself in a 300 at LA. Too risky not to.

[jnc914]

I QT'ed my last Achilles for 4 months in a 40 gallon Breeder with a ton of flow. I had him for almost two years and was forced to sell because of aggression. You definitely do not need a huge QT tank. However you do definitely need to QT this fish. Mine came from Diver's Den into a clean, mature QT and it had ich within 4 days. After the QT period it was bullet proof.

[skibum9884]

do you have the fish yet? let's see some pictures!

[Fish Dog]

If it came directly from Hawaii straight from the ocean to your tank, it probably would need QT, but since it's coming from Diver Den it's probably in good health and clean.

AT's need to go in the best tank you have avaliable, and that's the DT.

The best chance you have is going directly into the DT with this particular tang. Even if you QT, once you put him/her in the DT, it may get ich then too.

1+ for DT

[tcmfish]

but since it's coming from Diver Den it's probably in good health and clean.

Fish dog that made no sense. No offense. JNC just stated how his achilles came down with ich within four days from DD. Also the people at the DD don't guarantee their fish to be disease free, so you should still quarantine.

Even if you QT, once you put him/her in the DT, it may get ich then too.

That is wrong, unless you do your QT wrong, or put the fish in with fish that haven't been QT, then it can still get ich, but if you QT right it should not have ich coming out of QT.

[SMOOTHIE]

If it came directly from Hawaii straight from the ocean to your tank, it probably would need QT, but since it's coming from Diver Den it's probably in good health and clean.

AT's need to go in the best tank you have avaliable, and that's the DT.

The best chance you have is going directly into the DT with this particular tang. Even if you QT, once you put him/her in the DT, it may get ich then too.

1+ for DT

Read post #22. Ich in 4 days! You can't get ich in the display unless it is already in there or you did not qt properly.
+1 to getting a cheap 55 for a qt. Easy thing to resell or stash in the attic for later use.

[michealprater]

Unless you did not QT previous fish, in which case the display could be the one with ich not the new addition.

IMHO It is your tank and your money. I hate to see a rare AT of this size perish because of not QTing. When QT is done right, especially with a DD fish, you will get an exceptional specimen......... or you could just toss a 300 dollar fish in the display and cross your fingers like many others have suggestion.

This dead horse has officially been beat.

[jmccown]

ich is a heavily debated topic. Some will argue that ich is always present on fish no matter what you treat with, and cannot ever be totally eradicated. Then there's the other crowd who think that ich can be eliminated by copper based meds and all their worries are gone. I personally think that fish can still get ich later on down the road even if they have been treated with copper meds in a QT for several weeks. This is obviously a two-sided discussion and some feel strongly towards display tank in this situation, while others vie for QT.

[SMOOTHIE]

Would like to hear from the OP again

[Creetin]

Since it came from DD i would QT. Chances are it will adapt better than a fresh caught achilles.
Put it in the largest QT tank you can get your hands on. IMO
Good luck!!
OK so one QT achilles has survived. Any more? I would like to hear of them so we can better inform the primer. Proof is in the pudding.

[Fish Dog]

What I am saying is, that it's better to get it from Diver Den because they are a reputable company regardless of what they guarantee. (Good husbandries).

Not sure if you have keep an AT before??? BUT most people with AT's has had a bout with ich at some point.

WE are talking about an Achilles tang and the best survival rate. DT vs QT!

Everyone has their own opinion, but in this situation, mtbiker41 should listen to people who have had experience with this tang!

From a AT keeper!

[mtbiker41]

ok guys the ac is shipping out today should be here tomorrow .they have put off due to weather conditions an extra day.tried to get them to wait until next week until weather may be a little better but they won't .the memphis fed ex has screwed up several fish orders lately.my lfs said they lost his whole shipment and lost all fish over a 1000.00 worth,they screwed up my brother in laws big clown trigger and it died .so as of right now it should be here tomorrow.I'll take some pics afterwards and post up.thanks for all the advice,and I guess I'm going take caution try to qt and not risk my existing livestocks health.mtbiker41

[michealprater]

Smart man!

[hybridazn]

ok guys the ac is shipping out today should be here tomorrow .they have put off due to weather conditions an extra day.tried to get them to wait until next week until weather may be a little better but they won't .the memphis fed ex has screwed up several fish orders lately.my lfs said they lost his whole shipment and lost all fish over a 1000.00 worth,they screwed up my brother in laws big clown trigger and it died .so as of right now it should be here tomorrow.I'll take some pics afterwards and post up.thanks for all the advice,and I guess I'm going take caution try to qt and not risk my existing livestocks health.mtbiker41

please keep us posted! best of luck to you and your new prize fish!!

[jmaneyapanda]

Since it came from DD i would QT. Chances are it will adapt better than a fresh caught achilles.
Put it in the largest QT tank you can get your hands on. IMO
Good luck!!
OK so one QT achilles has survived. Any more? I would like to hear of them so we can better inform the primer. Proof is in the pudding.

As I stated earlier, my achilles survived 4 weeks of QT in a 29.

[michealprater]

You are buying it from DD. Here is there advice directly.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=205

[readmeli]

And here's a blog post by Kevin Kohen about why you should always quarantine:
http://www.dfs-pet-blog.com/2009/10/marine-aquarium/

Along with another about Ich & Marine Velvet:
http://www.dfs-pet-blog.com/2010/01/ich/

-Melissa

[sufunk]

ok guys the ac is shipping out today should be here tomorrow .they have put off due to weather conditions an extra day.tried to get them to wait until next week until weather may be a little better but they won't .the memphis fed ex has screwed up several fish orders lately.my lfs said they lost his whole shipment and lost all fish over a 1000.00 worth,they screwed up my brother in laws big clown trigger and it died .so as of right now it should be here tomorrow.I'll take some pics afterwards and post up.thanks for all the advice,and I guess I'm going take caution try to qt and not risk my existing livestocks health.mtbiker41

Good luck and DEFINITELY post some pics of that beauty!

8 1/2 inch Achilles!?!?! Damn! I'm so jealous!!!;)

[mtbiker41]

well just got my shipping confirmation its on the way,lets just hope fed ex doesn't screw this one up.I did a water change and filled the 55,put about 25 lbs of live rock from dt and 4" pvc t.I also have I also have caribsea live sand that is new should I throw a bag of that in there .I also have some sand that was taken out of another system a couple months ago .which one would be best to use or neither ?also put some stabile from seachem in there .any other recommendations to do.

[michealprater]

I would just use PVC in a bare tank. I guess the rock wont hurt, but remove it if you have to medicate or it will be ruined.

[tcmfish]

No sand it will cloud the water and won't clear before the fish gets there. I don't know if a fish that size will be able to fit in a 4" T, but you should try and make an area where the fish can hide.

I wouldn't remove the rock if you medicate. If using cupramine not much is absorbed by the rock and you can compensate for the little bit that is absorbed by testing. Also the rock won't get "ruined" it will just be good QT tank rock from then on. Don't but it in a tank with corals just keep in the QT. Bacteria and algae will still grow on it, making it useful in the future.

[mtbiker41]

ANTICIPATION!!!!thanks to everyone for all the info hopefully all goes well.this IS by far is the most expensive fish I've ever purchased so I really am stressing over it all.

[melanotaenia]

You might want to contact LA and see if they can give you information on how big the tank was that the Achillies was living in as they treated and prepared it for sale. IIRC DD keeps their fish for a few weeks minimum before selling, sometimes longer, so knowing what kind of conditions the fish was in during holding at LA may help the fish adapt better to the quarantine tank you set up in your home.

Just a thought.

[mtbiker41]

I talked to Greg at DD for over an hour before buying and he said the fish had been in quarantine for 2 months before putting up for sale and was good and fat and good.but didn't think to ask what size tank he was in .I'll call dd this morning to find out.

[mtbiker41]

I talked to Greg at DD for over an hour before buying and he said the fish had been in quarantine for 2 months before putting up for sale and was good and fat and good.but didn't think to ask what size tank he was in .I'll call dd this morning to find out.

update ,just talked to Greg again at la and he saidthis tang was kept in a 200 gallon qt for 2 months by itself.

[jnc914]

update ,just talked to Greg again at la and he saidthis tang was kept in a 200 gallon qt for 2 months by itself.


Based on the size of the tank I am lead to believe that the fish was likely not treated for parasites with anything other than Hypo, possibly...Did Greg say how the fish was treated? 200 gallons is a bit big to be a QT/Hospital tank. Personally I wouldn't go larger than 75 gallons for QT'ing any sized fish. Good luck with your Achilles.

[readmeli]

Here is a detailed explanation of the Diver's Den acclimation & quarantine procedures for all fish, that should cover many details asked about in this thread:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=425

There is also a series of video tours you might want to watch:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/videocenter/

Good luck with the Achilles!

-Melissa

[michealprater]

Its 10:30..... wheres the pics!?!

[Recty]

Ditto, I'd like to see a picture :)

[mtbiker41]

12:00 and still not here yet.he usually shows up between 12:00 & 1:30 if he knows he has a fish for me,around 4:00 if not.he tries to get them here as quick as he can or so he says.oh yea I highly recommend if you call la to talk to Greg really helpful and doesn't try to just blowyou off .the others I talked mon & tue. were not very helpful at all.

[silverfly]

Can i join in? Been reading this thread and looking forward to seeing your new baby!
Good luck and dont forget the pics:fish1:

richie

[melanotaenia]

200 gallons seems rather large, but appropriate especially when it was kept for over two months and was over 8" in length. Given that amount of time I doubt there is much going on disease-wise with this fish, or they would have caught it and treated it, or would have seen it manifest itself by now.

A short QT for this guy should be all that is necessary. I am glad DD kept him in a large tank by himself to prevent any claustrophobia issues that the fish may have experienced in a smaller holding tank.

[mtbiker41]

still impatiently waiting ,or should I say pacing the floor .I think I need a nerve pill.another thing Greg reccommended was to cover the qt with black cover for 48 hrs so the fish will stay calm ,cool and collected unlke me.then just let natural lighting for 2 days then add lights.

[jmccown]

Hey Butch, it took you almost 5 years but you're almost at 50 posts now. Ha!

[mtbiker41]

I know I've been trying to get as many on this thread as I can looks like my own thread will put me over .I guess that removes me from the lurkers club to an official poster.fish got here about 2:30 he acclimating now ,the water was just under 65 so I'm going to do 3 hour acclimation with a little 4" heater to slowly bring it up.he sure is a beautiful fish almost as big as my dussemeri but not quite .you need to stop and look at him this evening.stumpy the fed ex boy said he was stuck in a ditch for a while until someone came along and pulled him out.lol I'll post pics up shortly I got some car parts that have to be painted this evening first.

[Recty]

OooOOOoooOOOoooo, you're putting him in with a large dussumieri? I would expect some major fighting.

[hybridazn]

OooOOOoooOOOoooo, you're putting him in with a large dussumieri? I would expect some major fighting.


oh boy....

[mtbiker41]

ok guys here are some quick pics I shot not great but I'm doing the best I can.
he's really active swimming figure 8s in acllimation cooler.I actually have 3 tanks 2 fowlr and reef so if there are fighting issues they will separated .
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2752/4365668429_8cbebfa3ee.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2757/4366417560_2c557b78fe.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4067/4365681575_a3a5a3fd8b.jpghttp://farm5.static.flickr.com/4071/4365684037_8b905a949c.jpg

[mtbiker41]

here a couple of him in the qt before being plunged into 2 days of darkness,as per Greg's recommendation.they really packed him good ,there was no less than 10 plastic bags ,3 then banded ,3 then banded and so on.Wahooo this makes my 50th post a lurker no more on my own thread.http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4033/4366047975_b99f7a4217.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2750/4366790318_7de2d32742.jpg

[greech]

Stunning fish! Congrats.

That's one heck of a 50th post :)

[Recty]

It's a great looking fish, I hope it does well for you :)

[jmccown]

Sweet fish. I'll try to swing by tomorrow and check him out.

[1ucky]

Awesome looking Achilles! I wish you the best of luck with your new prize:).....

[jjk_reef00]

Amazing fish!

[silverfly]

:beer:Nice fish


richie

[hybridazn]

nice fish, have you noticed him picking at the rock or any other food source?

[mtbiker41]

nice fish, have you noticed him picking at the rock or any other food source?
not yet he's swimming in front of the powerhead.I put apiece garlic,selcon soaked nori sheet in and he wasn't interested yet .I have him covered up w no light for 2 days as per la .Thanks

[Creetin]

Later try smashing up the nori so its more like flake food. Soak it in garlic and smash it with your fingers.
Very nice fish! Good luck,

[michealprater]

I would not expect him to eat until he is over the stress of the shipment. This is normal with all tangs. He is a fat boy, so this will not hurt him. After a few days once you have him in light, you can get very aggressive with experimenting with different foods.

[mtbiker41]

Later try smashing up the nori so its more like flake food. Soak it in garlic and smash it with your fingers.
Very nice fish! Good luck,

the piece I put in was stuck on powerhead so I rubbed it and let it pull it thru it and into tank he wasn't interested yet.he's put some miles in front of that powerhead though every time I check on him he looks like he's on a treadmill.

[michealprater]

Good to hear he is active. That is a good sign.

[Creetin]

Yes that is good, When an achilles is hiding/not moving it does not sound good. Be carefull, Dont add a ton of food. Just a little here and there. Also in a day or so try a little PE mysis, or hikari mysis. The hikari is a little cleaner and has less oils. IMO
My angels are for some reason going nutty for that goofy gel food that marineland makes.
I am sure you got some with your achilles, I got some with my meridithi tuesday. It takes a couple times but they start to realize it as food.
Also live macro's like red gracilaria, or sometimes even chaeto gets them to nibble. And it does not hurt to leave it in there.

[TampaReefer79]

What a beast. I hope you name him something cool like "Hercules" or "Diesel". LOL

[mtbiker41]

thanks for the compliments guys as an update he has started eating .I put some caulerpa in there for him and he was picking at it .I uncovered the tank this morning and he came to the corner I was at looking back at me and not hiding so I think thats a good sign.so far"knock on wood" there is no sign of ick.ick will usually in the first 48 hours ime. I'm going to turn lights on tomorrow.turned them for a few minutes last night to show Jason my b.i.l. see it and check for signs of ick.his color is very vibrant and doesn't act scared at all.so far so good.mtbiker41

[Iwishihadgills]

Later try smashing up the nori so its more like flake food. Soak it in garlic and smash it with your fingers.
Very nice fish! Good luck,

+1

and a stunning fish

[tylorarm]

I got my AT from DD and QT'd in a 40gl long for a couple weeks with cupramine and 8 days of prazipro. I found he wasn't too fond of nori during QT. Totally ignored live caulerpa. No interest in mysis. I fed him live bloodworms, live clams on the half shell. After a couple days, he started eating NLS pellets, and the rest was pretty easy. Never skipped a beat when i started up the cupramine. My QT had live rock, a sump and a skimmer, and a couple maxijet powerheads. I also had an aquaclear hang on filter for further water movement and filtration. Lots of oxygen and some hiding places. IMO you QT for long-term health, as AT's are ich magnets, why take the chance?

[tcmfish]

I got my AT from DD and QT'd in a 40gl long for a couple weeks with cupramine and 8 days of prazipro. I found he wasn't too fond of nori during QT. Totally ignored live caulerpa. No interest in mysis. I fed him live bloodworms, live clams on the half shell. After a couple days, he started eating NLS pellets, and the rest was pretty easy. Never skipped a beat when i started up the cupramine. My QT had live rock, a sump and a skimmer, and a couple maxijet powerheads. I also had an aquaclear hang on filter for further water movement and filtration. Lots of oxygen and some hiding places. IMO you QT for long-term health, as AT's are ich magnets, why take the chance?

+1, good advice.

[ryshark]

Any signs of ich? Awesome fish!

[jmccown]

I saw the fish again the other day and still no signs of ich. I think he is going to have good success with this achilles. Can't wait to see it in the display tank.

[silverfly]

Hope its going well.!

[mtbiker41]

hey guys just giving an update on my dd achilles.hes eating almost anything you put in the tank.I left him a 1/4 sheet of nori this morning and its gone and a mix of plankton,marine cuisine,and blood worms with selcon ,vitamin c and garlic to dt and checked to see if he ate it and he did.put some flakes in yesterday and ate those like a pig.so alls well so far.I took some video of him on the powerhead treadmill over the weekend and I 'll try to post it as soon as I can.oh yea no signs of ich yet."knock on wood".

[ryshark]

ok guys here are some quick pics I shot not great but I'm doing the best I can.
he's really active swimming figure 8s in acllimation cooler.I actually have 3 tanks 2 fowlr and reef so if there are fighting issues they will separated .
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2752/4365668429_8cbebfa3ee.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2757/4366417560_2c557b78fe.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4067/4365681575_a3a5a3fd8b.jpghttp://farm5.static.flickr.com/4071/4365684037_8b905a949c.jpg

The dorsal fin looks orangish in this picture, is that how it looks when it is scared only? Or is it sill orange looking? I remember this fish in the DD picture a couple weeks ago it looked all black so I am assuming it only looks this way when it is scared???

[jmccown]

It still looks like that.

[mtbiker41]

yep it still looks like that and he ain't scared at all.he hasn't hid since started qt.he just keeps on swimming and eating.when he was in blackout I would pull the cover up and look in the end of tank and he would come right up to me and look back at me .he's already eating more variety than I thought he would.I keep wanting to go ahead and put him in the display but I know it's best if he stays in qt a little longer .

[tcmfish]

Are you treating with anything?

[ryshark]

yep it still looks like that and he ain't scared at all.he hasn't hid since started qt.he just keeps on swimming and eating.when he was in blackout I would pull the cover up and look in the end of tank and he would come right up to me and look back at me .he's already eating more variety than I thought he would.I keep wanting to go ahead and put him in the display but I know it's best if he stays in qt a little longer .

I was comparing it to this pic of him http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/itemdisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=81733
It must just depend whether the dorsal fin is up or down.

[mtbiker41]

I was comparing it to this pic of him http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/itemdisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=81733
It must just depend whether the dorsal fin is up or down.

if you look at the pic close the front of fin is faintly orange.it is brighter when extended.

[mtbiker41]

Are you treating with anything?

I treated with low dose of prazipro friday.thats been it so far other selcon,garlic,and vitamin c food soak.do you think I should be treating even though he shows no signs of disease yet?and did the 2nd water change today.

[tcmfish]

I would do cupramine and prazi together to speed up QT but its up to you. Before it goes in the display I would treat with cupramine, especially since it is eating so well and nice and fat it should take to treatment just fine. Many people with achilles who don't treat talk about how it has had ich before it gets it from time to time, in other words it has ich just the ich hasn't won yet.

[FishGuy5]

What a GORGEOUS fish!!!

[michealprater]

I would do cupramine and prazi together to speed up QT but its up to you. Before it goes in the display I would treat with cupramine, especially since it is eating so well and nice and fat it should take to treatment just fine. Many people with achilles who don't treat talk about how it has had ich before it gets it from time to time, in other words it has ich just the ich hasn't won yet.

I disagree, you should not treat a fish that does not show any signs of disease. Especially with a delicate fish like an Achilles. This will only impede the progress you have already made. Best analogy I have heard is, like giving chemotherapy to someone before you know they have cancer. Plus, there is agood chance he was treated at la. No need to put him through it again. People forget copper is a poison.

[tcmfish]

People also forget how mild cupramine is. And cancer is quite an extreme analogy. Its more like giving someone a vaccine so they won't get sick again ;) I think many people forget we maintain controlled systems and control what goes in and out. Why would you want to risk everything else????

Here is a comical vid about corals, but its the same thing in fish. Why introduce a pest that could risk all your corals? So why introduce a pest that could risk all your fish?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoX1-dFppYQ

But whatever its up to you guys, I'm getting sick of trying to tell people because no one listens.

[jmccown]

Looks like LA/DD offered up another really nice achilles last night. This one sold in just a few minutes. It has very similar markings on the top fins as yours does Butch.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/itemdisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=82528

[michealprater]

People also forget how mild cupramine is. And cancer is quite an extreme analogy. Its more like giving someone a vaccine so they won't get sick again ;) I think many people forget we maintain controlled systems and control what goes in and out. Why would you want to risk everything else????

Here is a comical vid about corals, but its the same thing in fish. Why introduce a pest that could risk all your corals? So why introduce a pest that could risk all your fish?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoX1-dFppYQ

But whatever its up to you guys, I'm getting sick of trying to tell people because no one listens.

I am not trying to argue, just a freindly debate. I want the best for this beautiful fish like you do. I hear that cupramine is mild. In fact it is the copper I use when I need to treat. However, there is no way to really tell if it is actually mild or not. A marine biologist or a chemist may be able to say otherwise. I do not claim to be either, and I am just throwing my opinion out there just like you. Even if treated with cupramine, the fish may still get ich in the display. Ich can be dormant in systems for long periods of time until it finds a good host (achilles tang). I am in total favor of quarantining all new additions, I just disagree with treating with chemicals as a preventative.

I totally agree with dipping corals, but that video was an advertisement, doesnt make it exactly the gospel.

BTW, I am listening to you, doesnt mean I have to agree with everything you say. This is a discussion forum and it is open for healthy debate. We can all present our case, and the end user can determine which he feels is the best advice. :)

[ryshark]

Looks like LA/DD offered up another really nice achilles last night. This one sold in just a few minutes. It has very similar markings on the top fins as yours does Butch.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/itemdisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=82528

I can't decide if I like the those markings on the top better than just plain black or not... I keep going back and forth. Either way they are awesome looking fish.

[tcmfish]

The only way it could get ich after being treated with copper is if it was put in a tank with fish that haven't been treated with copper. That is why I don't like not treating as a preventative because then your fish can still get sick after QT.

I am not targeting you either, just see so many people against QT and I don't understand it.

[tylorarm]

To me it makes the most sense to QT all of your fish in a similar way. If you use preventative cupramine, do it with all. If you do it with some then skip it for an expensive beauty like the achilles you might as well not do it with any. I agree that cupramine is mild, and i've yet to see any evidence that prior treatments shorten lifespans. However, because unlike a vaccination if a fish introduces ich to the tank, a previous cupramine treatment can't help current residents, I now treat all incomers with cupramine. Previously i used standard QT, wait and watch, then had a devastating outbreak despite such efforts with no visible signs for a year from the last entrant prior to the outbreak. I think how you approach QT also depends on how difficult it is to get your fish out and treat if there is an outbreak. Having a big full reef tank makes treatment once an outbreak happens a huge PITA and has knocked many out of the hobby.

[Untamed12]

I can't decide if I like the those markings on the top better than just plain black or not... I keep going back and forth. Either way they are awesome looking fish.

Like many tangs, the achilles can change colours based on mood/excitement level. That redness on the top fin isn't always there, nor is the white belly. Their eyes also take on a distinct blue colour at times. It is all perfectly normal.

[tcmfish]

To me it makes the most sense to QT all of your fish in a similar way. If you use preventative cupramine, do it with all. If you do it with some then skip it for an expensive beauty like the achilles you might as well not do it with any. I agree that cupramine is mild, and i've yet to see any evidence that prior treatments shorten lifespans. However, because unlike a vaccination if a fish introduces ich to the tank, a previous cupramine treatment can't help current residents, I now treat all incomers with cupramine. Previously i used standard QT, wait and watch, then had a devastating outbreak despite such efforts with no visible signs for a year from the last entrant prior to the outbreak. I think how you approach QT also depends on how difficult it is to get your fish out and treat if there is an outbreak. Having a big full reef tank makes treatment once an outbreak happens a huge PITA and has knocked many out of the hobby.

You said it better than I could! +1

But as far as color I also agree it is perfectly normal, some people have reported the eye color change during aggression, maybe others can comment on that.

[ryshark]

I remember in the Achilles Premier somebody showing a pic of their Achilles with eyes that change to blue. By the way, I was the one that got that Achilles jmccown linked above. I have had my eye out for a 5"-6" Achilles for a long time. I was only able to see the picture on my Blackberry before I placed the order while driving (I've seen how fast the DD Achilles can sell and didn't want to risk losing it) When I got home and saw the big picture on my computer screen I noticed the orange dorsal fin and I wasn't sure if I liked that or not. I like what untammed and tcmfish said about them changing color, this way I will get the both of both worlds depending on the tangs mood. I figured this color changing may be possible because I have seen other Acanthurus like powder browns and tennant tangs change color very quickly. Anyway, he will be here tomorrow.

[anderson99]

What a GORGEOUS fish!!!

+1. What a beast.

[cecilturtle]

Previously i used standard QT, wait and watch, then had a devastating outbreak despite such efforts with no visible signs for a year from the last entrant prior to the outbreak.

There is a lot more going on here than standard QT and routine treatment. While I am in agreement for QT, if for nothing more than to limit exposure of parasites of both fish and coral, and for containment of such; I believe a lot of loses can be directly attributed to questionable practices on the wholesale and retail side of things. Basically a game of chance for us. This occurance for tylorarm, may very well have been a weakened immune system from past treatments coupled with added tank stress that brought ich in. That has been my arguement for years. That a clean tank can get ich just like a sterile enviroment can get bacteria by decaying organic matter.

[mtbiker41]

I remember in the Achilles Premier somebody showing a pic of their Achilles with eyes that change to blue. By the way, I was the one that got that Achilles jmccown linked above. I have had my eye out for a 5"-6" Achilles for a long time. I was only able to see the picture on my Blackberry before I placed the order while driving (I've seen how fast the DD Achilles can sell and didn't want to risk losing it) When I got home and saw the big picture on my computer screen I noticed the orange dorsal fin and I wasn't sure if I liked that or not. I like what untammed and tcmfish said about them changing color, this way I will get the both of both worlds depending on the tangs mood. I figured this color changing may be possible because I have seen other Acanthurus like powder browns and tennant tangs change color very quickly. Anyway, he will be here tomorrow.congratulations on that beautiful achilles purchase,I preferrably would like to have gotten a 5 to 6" fish but the 8"came up so I went for it.good luck with him.mtbiker41

[mtbiker41]

Looks like LA/DD offered up another really nice achilles last night. This one sold in just a few minutes. It has very similar markings on the top fins as yours does Butch.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/itemdisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=82528
I thought you may have bought until I saw who did posted.those spots must've been air bubbles on him from the airstone as I turned it off and they were gone this when I came home from work.

[10001110101]

I don't currently have one, but think of it this way. It is a touchy fish. If something goes wrong it will probably be one of the first to show signs (ich usually), and things always go wrong. If the fish is healthy initially (from DD) surviving QT should be no problem. The reason most say go straight to the display is they probably think it will die in QT or won't eat. It is my opinion that all fish should be QT, so when things go wrong disease won't be an issue.

PBT's don't do well in QT, unless qt is a full reef set up.... they need an established aquarium with plenty of LR... thye need lots of passages/caves and a diverse but open aquascape...

unless you have some kind of really nice QT... i wouldn't recommend it. PBT's need numerous hiding places, they become masters of the terrain they need that to feel comfortable... another thread on here guy had his in qt 14 days, was doing great, eating tons, then he went to feed it one day, it freaked out so bad it beat itself to death.

Those 4 walls start to close in pretty quick!... naw really they need terrain... a decent rockscape, corals, all the usual stuff.

almost every tank has ich, unless he QT'ed everything up to this point, what's the point... almost every TANG has ich, it's just important to keep him low stress so it doesn't present.

[Nerd1717]

I will respectfully disgaree 1 million percent.

Haha.

[Creetin]

The only way it could get ich after being treated with copper is if it was put in a tank with fish that haven't been treated with copper. That is why I don't like not treating as a preventative because then your fish can still get sick after QT.

I am not targeting you either, just see so many people against QT and I don't understand it.

Or your human and add something like a coral or a snail ect ect ect thats not been fallow for 8 weeks.

[jmccown]

I thought you may have bought until I saw who did posted.those spots must've been air bubbles on him from the airstone as I turned it off and they were gone this when I came home from work.

I'm still debating on whether to get the one from the diver in hawaii. It has been in QT 2 weeks now with 1 more week to go. I'm just afraid of how my big sohal would react to it. The diver said it was 5" and in perfect health.

[jmaneyapanda]

PBT's don't do well in QT, unless qt is a full reef set up.... they need an established aquarium with plenty of LR... thye need lots of passages/caves and a diverse but open aquascape...

unless you have some kind of really nice QT... i wouldn't recommend it. PBT's need numerous hiding places, they become masters of the terrain they need that to feel comfortable... another thread on here guy had his in qt 14 days, was doing great, eating tons, then he went to feed it one day, it freaked out so bad it beat itself to death.

Those 4 walls start to close in pretty quick!... naw really they need terrain... a decent rockscape, corals, all the usual stuff.

almost every tank has ich, unless he QT'ed everything up to this point, what's the point... almost every TANG has ich, it's just important to keep him low stress so it doesn't present.

False. I have seen hundreds of PBT go through properly set up QTs fine. QT does so much more than just treat ich. But, sorry to hijack this therad. Good luck with that monster achilles. That red patch is so big and vivid, its mesmerizing.

[tcmfish]

I'm still debating on whether to get the one from the diver in hawaii. It has been in QT 2 weeks now with 1 more week to go. I'm just afraid of how my big sohal would react to it. The diver said it was 5" and in perfect health.

In that 11 foot tank I think you could do it. If you are worried I might use a see through cage to house it in initially to reduce aggression and see how other fish react to it without being able to physically harass it.

[mtbiker41]

when you guys said achilles need not lots of for swimming you weren't kidding .this fish goes from end to end of tank or in front of the powerhead 24 7 .I've gotten in the middle of the night several times since arrival and every time I do he's swimming I have yet to catch him asleep or setting still.he won't even stop to eat.he swims and catches it in the water as he's swimming.can't wait to see him going end to end on that 8' tank.

[ryshark]

mtbiker41- how many days did it take before he started eating? What was the first thing he started eating besides the caulerpa?

[mtbiker41]

mtbiker41- how many days did it take before he started eating? What was the first thing he started eating besides the caulerpa?he started eating almost immediately,I've fed him cheato,nls pellets which he really likes,spirulina flakes,mysis,blood worms & marine cuisine mixed together and nori.all of which is soaked in garlic,selcon.and vitamin c.did you get yours yet?

[ryshark]

he started eating almost immediately,I've fed him cheato,nls pellets which he really likes,spirulina flakes,mysis,blood worms & marine cuisine mixed together and nori.all of which is soaked in garlic,selcon.and vitamin c.did you get yours yet?

So he started eating the same day you got him? Yes, I got mine today. I decided not to use my 20-gallon QT and I put him directly in the main tank. I haven't seen ich on my fish before and the Achilles is now the only fish in my main tank that was not freshwater/methylene blue dipped. I figured the QT will be more stressful for the Achilles and since I didn't QT any of my other fish there is a possibility of ich being in there making it a waste of time to QT the Achilles. I've got my fingers crossed, we will see what happens.

[jmccown]

keep us posted ryshark. Curious to see how a specimen does added directly to DT. What size is your tank and what are the other inhabitants?

[LobsterOfJustice]

I'm assuming you skipped the dip due to the delicate nature of the fish?

[ryshark]

keep us posted ryshark. Curious to see how a specimen does added directly to DT. What size is your tank and what are the other inhabitants?

180-gallon tank, large cone skimmer with a big Askoll pump, 2x Vortech MP40 and 1-Tunze nanostream.
4" Sailfin Tang
3.5" Hippo Tang
4" Doliatus Rabbitfish
4x 2" Anthias
4x 1.5" Chromis
2" Bellus Angelfish
So far no aggression yet except for the sailfin chasing it for about 1-second a few times in the begining.
Not interested in food yet, but has only been in the tank since around noon.

[ryshark]

I'm assuming you skipped the dip due to the delicate nature of the fish?

Yes. The fish is delicate plus expensive. It is the only fish in my tank that was not dipped. Instead of dipping I put into the display some snake oil/voodoo juice( hoping that it may actually contain probiotics (marine max) that may actually help protect the fish from disease. I don't think there are any studies proving that it actually helps, but I could be wrong.

[mtbiker41]

So he started eating the same day you got him? Yes, I got mine today. I decided not to use my 20-gallon QT and I put him directly in the main tank. I haven't seen ich on my fish before and the Achilles is now the only fish in my main tank that was not freshwater/methylene blue dipped. I figured the QT will be more stressful for the Achilles and since I didn't QT any of my other fish there is a possibility of ich being in there making it a waste of time to QT the Achilles. I've got my fingers crossed, we will see what happens.I didn't feed him the first day but he was picking at the live rock.when I fed the next day didn't go after it aggressively like my others but would eat as he swims by the food and still eats that way .it's like he doesn't want to stop swimming to eat.I put him in display last nite .the dussumeri went all black and started swimming all around him so I turned lights and he calmed down and went to bed.this morning with actinics on the sailfin fully extended following him everywhere and my purple tang is almost white.I didn't know my sf was that big until this he never fully extended.the ach is swimming end to end not paying any attention to the others.in the qt he started swimming rapidly I could see a change in actions from when I put him in last week so decided to put in dt. good luck with the new addition.

[1ucky]

Mtbiker41, please post some pics of him in your display when he's all settled in:).....

[Sardaukar]

The myths that have grown up around Ich/QT/delicate fish are really quite fascinating. The idea that you must simply accept that some fish are going to get ich or that it is always present in every system, while interesting, is false. If you QT every fish with copper for a sufficient time length to cover the entire possible life cycle of ich and ensure that everything you introduce to the DT, be it coral, shrimp or rock, is left fallow for 2 months, it is scientifically impossible for you to get Ich in your DT.

Of course, the issue is that most people are not willing to go to such great lengths to keep it out of their system. Maybe they QT some fish, some might even be treated with copper, but the level of rigidity needed to keep ich out is not maintained. They end up adding a few coral frags without fallow and a bit of the water from the bag makes it in, water that had a bit of ich in it and poof, their efforts are undone. If you believe that using QT/copper/fallow properly is not worth the effort or the risk for some reason, that is your choice, but claiming that theres no way to keep ich out or that you might as well not QT an Achilles because its going to have a little bit of ich no matter what is simply not true.

Good luck with a stunning Achilles!

[ryshark]

The myths that have grown up around Ich/QT/delicate fish are really quite fascinating. The idea that you must simply accept that some fish are going to get ich or that it is always present in every system, while interesting, is false. If you QT every fish with copper for a sufficient time length to cover the entire possible life cycle of ich and ensure that everything you introduce to the DT, be it coral, shrimp or rock, is left fallow for 2 months, it is scientifically impossible for you to get Ich in your DT.

Of course, the issue is that most people are not willing to go to such great lengths to keep it out of their system. Maybe they QT some fish, some might even be treated with copper, but the level of rigidity needed to keep ich out is not maintained. They end up adding a few coral frags without fallow and a bit of the water from the bag makes it in, water that had a bit of ich in it and poof, their efforts are undone. If you believe that using QT/copper/fallow properly is not worth the effort or the risk for some reason, that is your choice, but claiming that theres no way to keep ich out or that you might as well not QT an Achilles because its going to have a little bit of ich no matter what is simply not true.

Good luck with a stunning Achilles!

I agree with this, if every thing that is wet is properly qt'd then it is possible to have an ich free tank. I used to qt fish and not corals, snails, shrimp etc and although rare I still got ich in my old system this way. It was such a pain qt'ing and profilactically treating all new fish and I still got ich from adding inverts without qt'ing them.
Now I don't qt fish anymore, I just give them a freshwater/methelyne blue dip and put them into the display. And I am more selective of where I buy fish from. I have had better result this way so far.

[mtbiker41]

ok everyone heres a vid of the dd achilles along with his tankmates a 10" dussemieri among several others .they get along great the one that seems to be the problem is the 3" sohal.believe it or not he occasionally chases that big ole achilles and he runs or should I say swims away.looks like the chihuahua chasing the pitbull.if he keeps it up I'll send him to the 155 to live w the 12" lionfish I bet he'd give him an attitude adjustment.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLXCOmnKuoE

[ctrl+f]

If you QT every fish with copper for a sufficient time length to cover the entire possible life cycle of ich and ensure that everything you introduce to the DT, be it coral, shrimp or rock, is left fallow for 2 months, it is scientifically impossible for you to get Ich in your DT.

What is involved in "fallow"? I can't imagine most people have the hardware to keep corals happy for two months outside of their DT.

[silverfly]

Nice collection of fish you have there!

[Creetin]

Very nice!! The sohal is not going to get better, Most likely get worse as he grows. IMO
I'd pull him,

[ryshark]

What is involved in "fallow"? I can't imagine most people have the hardware to keep corals happy for two months outside of their DT.

You can leave the coral in the tank, just don't add any new stuff during the fallow period.

[Creetin]

You can leave the coral in the tank, just don't add any new stuff during the fallow period.

He's talkning about new coral letting fallow for that period.
I have heard from 6 weeks up to 8 weeks+.

[ryshark]

ok everyone heres a vid of the dd achilles along with his tankmates a 10" dussemieri among several others .they get along great the one that seems to be the problem is the 3" sohal.believe it or not he occasionally chases that big ole achilles and he runs or should I say swims away.looks like the chihuahua chasing the pitbull.if he keeps it up I'll send him to the 155 to live w the 12" lionfish I bet he'd give him an attitude adjustment.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLXCOmnKuoE

Nice video. My achilles is still only eating nori. DD said it was eating hikari mysis and spirulina brine at their facility, but it won't eat that in my tank. Any suggestions? Garlic soak doesn't work.

[mtbiker41]

Nice video. My achilles is still only eating nori. DD said it was eating hikari mysis and spirulina brine at their facility, but it won't eat that in my tank. Any suggestions? Garlic soak doesn't work.he's not eating as good now as he was in qt. when in qt he ate but didn't stop swimming to eat would just grab it as he swam by each pass. have had best luck with nori ,nls pellets,and plankton .feed everything with ecosystem garlic,vit.c,and selcon.good luck with your new fish.Butch

[Sardaukar]

What is involved in "fallow"? I can't imagine most people have the hardware to keep corals happy for two months outside of their DT.

If we are talking about Ich, then fallow just means fish-less. The life cycle of ich is 100% dependent on fish being present - take out every fish for 2 months and it will be ich free.

[ryshark]

he's not eating as good now as he was in qt. when in qt he ate but didn't stop swimming to eat would just grab it as he swam by each pass. have had best luck with nori ,nls pellets,and plankton .feed everything with ecosystem garlic,vit.c,and selcon.good luck with your new fish.Butch

He started to show signs of interest in the Mysis and Brine tonight. I think in a couple days he will be eating it. As far as the Nori he is not shy to get right up there with the other fish. What kind of Plankton are you feeding?

[ctrl+f]

If we are talking about Ich, then fallow just means fish-less. The life cycle of ich is 100% dependent on fish being present - take out every fish for 2 months and it will be ich free.

I guess that's why I was confused. I can't believe anyone actually does that every time they add coral.

[Outerbank]

I have not read the whole thread, but that is one beautiful fish!!!

[michealprater]

I guess that's why I was confused. I can't believe anyone actually does that every time they add coral.

They dont. They avoid adding nuisances to the display by quaraniting or dipping all new additions according to what they are and the proper way to avoid such issues. By doing this, the nuisance is never introduced to the display, thus never being a need to go fallow.

People who do not QT fish, or dip coral properly, eventually end up with something they do not want in thier display. I know from experience.

[tcmfish]

they dont. They avoid adding nuisances to the display by quaraniting or dipping all new additions according to what they are and the proper way to avoid such issues. By doing this, the nuisance is never introduced to the display, thus never being a need to go fallow.

People who do not qt fish, or dip coral properly, eventually end up with something they do not want in thier display. I know from experience.

+1

[ryshark]

Even if you qt fish and dip coral there is still a chance of getting parasite in your tank from adding other inverts like shrimp, snails and crabs. And you cannot dip them. They would have to be QTd for 6-8 weeks with no fish. I know its rare but possible to get parasites from adding them.

[michealprater]

Even if you qt fish and dip coral there is still a chance of getting parasite in your tank from adding other inverts like shrimp, snails and crabs. And you cannot dip them. They would have to be QTd for 6-8 weeks with no fish. I know its rare but possible to get parasites from adding them.

Splitting hairs. In 14 years inthis hobby I have never seen that happen.

[Sardaukar]

I guess that's why I was confused. I can't believe anyone actually does that every time they add coral.

Eh, not that hard. Its easier to do it before its a problem. Setup a smaller secondary reef that is fishless. Leave Coral frags you get in there for 2 months, move them to your DT - problem solved. Could do it with any shrimp/crabs/snails to make sure as well.

[ryshark]

Splitting hairs. In 14 years inthis hobby I have never seen that happen.

It happened to me. I used to QT all fish and give them hyposalinity treatment at 1.009 for 8-weeks, just to be safe. I would dip all coral and do my best to acclimate shrimp/snails/crabs and rinse them off before adding them to my tank. My tank still broke out with Ich.
Now my new approach is, get a big skimmer and feed heavily with a wide variety of food which is sometimes soaked in garlic,selcon and vita-chem, to build up the fishes own immune system to fight off disease. I also am very selective on where I buy new fish from and I do a Freshwater Dip with Methylene Blue.
This technique has worked out better for me so far. I now have 17-fish with my Achilles being the last one. Luckily still no signs of Ich and I am done adding fish.
It was discouraging when I was so careful with QT before to end up with ich anyways. So much less of a pain to do it my new way.

[SMOOTHIE]

Very nice!! The sohal is not going to get better, Most likely get worse as he grows. IMO
I'd pull him,

+1 and only 1/4 the size

[michealprater]

It happened to me. I used to QT all fish and give them hyposalinity treatment at 1.009 for 8-weeks, just to be safe. I would dip all coral and do my best to acclimate shrimp/snails/crabs and rinse them off before adding them to my tank. My tank still broke out with Ich.
Now my new approach is, get a big skimmer and feed heavily with a wide variety of food which is sometimes soaked in garlic,selcon and vita-chem, to build up the fishes own immune system to fight off disease. I also am very selective on where I buy new fish from and I do a Freshwater Dip with Methylene Blue.
This technique has worked out better for me so far. I now have 17-fish with my Achilles being the last one. Luckily still no signs of Ich and I am done adding fish.
It was discouraging when I was so careful with QT before to end up with ich anyways. So much less of a pain to do it my new way.

I still QT to get the fish eating well in a stress free enviroment, but I definately agree with this as my display has ich in it. "Now my new approach is, get a big skimmer and feed heavily with a wide variety of food which is sometimes soaked in garlic,selcon and vita-chem, to build up the fishes own immune system to fight off disease."

[jmaneyapanda]

I agree with this, if every thing that is wet is properly qt'd then it is possible to have an ich free tank. I used to qt fish and not corals, snails, shrimp etc and although rare I still got ich in my old system this way. It was such a pain qt'ing and profilactically treating all new fish and I still got ich from adding inverts without qt'ing them.
Now I don't qt fish anymore, I just give them a freshwater/methelyne blue dip and put them into the display. And I am more selective of where I buy fish from. I have had better result this way so far.

If you are ONLY using QT to prevent ick, you are missing a HUGE number of benefits for QT, including acclimitization to your water parameters, your food, your photoperiod, your routine- all without the stress of other fish harassing them. Im not even gonna mention other infectiosn or parasites. People who dont QT, will have success, until they fail. Look in the large tank forums, at Chinchai's huge tank. He didnt QT, for argument that "clean water is key", and everyone applauded and backed him. Then he lost almost EVERY fish. Guess who Qt's now?

[stunreefer]

^^^ :thumbsup: ^^^

[jmccown]

Water parameters are hard to match when you are comparing a QT to a DT, also with the photoperiod. Unless systems are all tied together the params are going to be different. I think the big thing with QT is to get the fish eating normal in a QT.

[jmaneyapanda]

Water parameters are hard to match when you are comparing a QT to a DT, also with the photoperiod. Unless systems are all tied together the params are going to be different. I think the big thing with QT is to get the fish eating normal in a QT.

I disagree. My water parameters are EXACT between them. I use water from my display in my QT. They are not connected, but my water change water goes from display to QT. And the lighting is on the same time frame.

I know everyone has their own opinion and procedure, but I personally cannot believe there are still people who not only refuse to QT, but can try to argue how it isnt necessary/bad/etc.

[michealprater]

When I have my QT up, my WC policy is this. Drain QT, fill it with DT tank water, fill DT with fresh saltwater. Repeat as necassary. Keeps the water the same as long as you do not let ammonia/nitrite/nitrate build up in the QT. Works great for me. Then acclimating into the DT is a snap.

I agree, there are tons of benefits to QTing fish outside of just ich.

[vegaskid11]

I have my litermeter set for auto water changes on my system and it dumps the waste display water into my QT and the QT overflows to a drain. Its set for about 10 gallons a day on my display so the 55 gallon QT gets a near 25 percent daily water change with display water.

[michealprater]

I have my litermeter set for auto water changes on my system and it dumps the waste display water into my QT and the QT overflows to a drain. Its set for about 10 gallons a day on my display so the 55 gallon QT gets a near 25 percent daily water change with display water.

Wow, great idea.

[ryshark]

If you are ONLY using QT to prevent ick, you are missing a HUGE number of benefits for QT, including acclimitization to your water parameters, your food, your photoperiod, your routine- all without the stress of other fish harassing them. Im not even gonna mention other infectiosn or parasites. People who dont QT, will have success, until they fail. Look in the large tank forums, at Chinchai's huge tank. He didnt QT, for argument that "clean water is key", and everyone applauded and backed him. Then he lost almost EVERY fish. Guess who Qt's now?

I should have used the word parasite instead of "ich." For Achilles Tangs most people have too small of QT tanks which will be more stressful on the fish. I used to QT all fish until it failed me. In my experience my new way works better for me and it makes it feel much more like a hobby and less like a job. I also think if you have a fish list in mind and strategically add the fish in a certain order that will drastically cut down on other fish harassing new fish. I am not against other people using QT as I mentioned I used to diligently QT too. I just prefer my new ways of selecting fish from only certain vendors and freshwater/methylene blue dipping.
I don't recall ever saying that QTing was "bad." When done correctly there is noting bad about it.

[jmaneyapanda]

I should have used the word parasite instead of "ich." For Achilles Tangs most people have too small of QT tanks which will be more stressful on the fish. I used to QT all fish until it failed me. In my experience my new way works better for me and it makes it feel much more like a hobby and less like a job. I also think if you have a fish list in mind and strategically add the fish in a certain order that will drastically cut down on other fish harassing new fish. I am not against other people using QT as I mentioned I used to diligently QT too. I just prefer my new ways of selecting fish from only certain vendors and freshwater/methylene blue dipping.
I don't recall ever saying that QTing was "bad." When done correctly there is noting bad about it.

First and foremost, I am not singling you out. I apologize if you felt this way. There are a TON of people that will argue against QT, and it is a step backwarsd for the hobby IMO. And I just cant understand why they refuse to do it, except for laziness, frankly.

I disagree, again, respectfully. QT are NOT too small for any but the giant fish, if they are properly set up. I have seen 6+ inch Achilles and powder blues in 29 gallon tanks with PVC and fake plants for a LONG time. Furthermore, more stressful on the fish than what? Disease? Really? You think that 3-4 weeks in a smaller tank with clean water and treatment for disease is MORE stressful than parasites and disease themselves? We will have to agree to disagree in this matter, then.

I understand that it may be "harder" to QT fish than dip them, but I honestly feel that is a pretty poor excuse for skipping a health step. Because you dont "feel like doing it". If this were a dog, and you said, "I dont want it to feel like work, so I didnt vaccinate or deworm him", you would be neglecting the dog. If you KNOW QT is a good solution to the problem, but just dont feel like doing the work, that si dissapointing. Let be honest here, too- its not THAT hard to set up a QT. It can be had cheap and easy.

Finally, ick, isnt a real killer in our fish. Fish get it, and can easily survive it. However, if something like brookynella or Amyloodinium or uronema gets into your tank, you'll have a new outlook on not QTing.

[NSteinbrook]

Amazing Achilles!!! Makes a great new addition to your collection. Now you have me wondering what your stocking method has been along the way with so many large and species aggressive fish??? Could be hard to remember exactly but I'd be interested in your technique. One week ago I added a 3" AT and Purple to my 150 seperated from my 8" Hippo and 6" Salfin with eggcrate. So far so great! Both new tangs eating everything and no signs of ich so far. I will be rehoming my Sailfin and Hippo to a friend who recently set up a 8' 300g before I remove the eggcrate. Hard to give up but will see them often and I know they will strive in 150 more gallon of water. Question is more suited for my friend who will in time add many more species aggressive fish. Sorry for the off topic all................ Congrats on new addition!

[mtbiker41]

Amazing Achilles!!! Makes a great new addition to your collection. Now you have me wondering what your stocking method has been along the way with so many large and species aggressive fish??? Could be hard to remember exactly but I'd be interested in your technique. One week ago I added a 3" AT and Purple to my 150 seperated from my 8" Hippo and 6" Salfin with eggcrate. So far so great! Both new tangs eating everything and no signs of ich so far. I will be rehoming my Sailfin and Hippo to a friend who recently set up a 8' 300g before I remove the eggcrate. Hard to give up but will see them often and I know they will strive in 150 more gallon of water. Question is more suited for my friend who will in time add many more species aggressive fish. Sorry for the off topic all................ Congrats on new addition!the purple tang,leopard wrasse,maroon clown and rabbit fish all were first out of the 90 that caught on fire.the dussi was next with a large pinktail and blue throat pair mag foxface and a large naso then a flood caused power outage and lost a few .later added sailfin and then twin spot,sohal,,hawaiiain and vlamingi.recently queen angel and wrasses.seems like if I add more than one fish at time there is less aggression.but honestly the only aggression has been from a 5" pinktail after my hawaiiain repeatededly.the hawaiiain finally got tired of being chased and fought back and there was war luckily no injuries so pinktail went to my office tank 155 with 12" lionfish.the sohal chases almost anyone of them every now and even the big achilles.but for what I have they get along really well.I once had a passer that was half the size of lionfish and would go after him saw him stung several times but didn't faze him.after 3 or 4 times of me putting him in time out "blocking him in behind some rockwork " for a few days he never picked on another fish.so you can always try that.