SPS Wild Colonies Coloration

[shandy_say]

Most of my SPS are wild colonies. I have had them for about 2 months already and most of them are still brown or have a greenish coloration already. All of my SPS have great polyp extension and some are already starting to grow. Some have even started to encrust the LR where i placed them on.

I read somewhere that normally Wild colonies of SPS brown out during the 1st few months and then later on color up. Would anyone know how long this usually takes?

[eros]

Sometimes they never color back up, it just depends on the coral. Wild corals are a gamble.

[shandy_say]

thanks eros! Its just almost close to impossible to get aquacultured frags here. Most of the sps sold here are wild colonies so there's not really much of a choice. Some of the colonies/frags i have arrived almost bleached. They have since then turned brown while some turned green. Im not really sure if they were to green to begin with.

A local reefer said that his wild colonies used to be brown also. But after maybe 3 months they turned green, then turned pale green then started to color up.

Has anyone experienced this? Been reading and searching all over the net and can't seem to get any information regarding this.

[eros]

Some might turn out to be real gems. All corals were wild once.:lolspin:

My only non-aquacultured piece is a maricultured Millepora colony. It has done great but likes a lot of light.

Another option is to make frags of the wild colony. A corals growth pattern is largely influenced by lighting and flow, if you can't reproduce the environment it's used to it might not to so well. Hope that helps. Good luck.

[shandy_say]

Still hoping that do become gems. However with how things are going now i think they are just emerald (green) gems. Been dosing koralcolor already and lugols but i havent noticed any changes or improvement in color. I guess only time can tell.

[waxy]

I only go with wild colonies, it's 1/20 corals I have are aquacultured.

With Aquacultured, I get tired of seeing everyone having the same stuff.

ORA, LE, Tyree etc.

With wild, it just goes strictly with the species name. Nothing fancy.

Just like what Eros says, some corals don't color up too well. They stay brown, since we're unable to mimic the exact motions of the ocean. Not to mention the lack of continuous nutrients in our tanks.

Don't get me wrong though, some wild pieces color up a lot more intense than they are from the ocean.

[shandy_say]

Thanks waxy! What is usually your experienced time frame for those wild colonies to color up assuming all water parameters are at optimum levels?

[waxy]

You're looking at 2-4+ weeks.

I run a CA Rx, Dose Kalk, Dose 2 Part and do water changes every 4 weeks.

I don't do water changes every 1-2 weeks because it's expensive!

Also very time consuming in a 440g tank...

[shandy_say]

Thanks waxy. I dose cal and alk every other day now. Since last week the calcium uptake of my tank has grown exponentially even when i gave away some of my sps frags already. I also do water changes 1x a month but i skim wet so sometimes i top off with saltwater instead of RODI. I guess my sps will never color up. It has been more than a month already and no improvement in color. Any suggestions on what to do?

[fijiblue]

What kind of light do you have? Usually corals turning green that are normally not is a sign of needing more light...

[sportzfish]

What kind of light do you have? Usually corals turning green that are normally not is a sign of needing more light...

I thought turning green was another indicator that there are too many nutrients in the tank?

[tibob32]

I can tell you from what happened in my tank when I added uncured dry rocks, PO4 will turn some sps green

PS Always cure marco rocks

[Ricunger]

I also heard the PO4 adds more green pigments.

[mrvicz]

yo shandy,

sad to hear about your coral's colors. try keeping rock solid parameters - salinity, alk, ca, mg, k... aside from the given zero on nitrates & p04. also try dosing amino acids perhaps? jmho :)

best of luck!

[waxy]

Phosphates ( P04 ) cause greener pigments.
Sometimes even brown, due to massive amounts of PO4.

While small traces of nitrates is good, since it's food for the corals.

I'm not a believer in all those other random chemicals that are off the shelves.
Which claim , proven to be "growth hormones" for the corals. Nothing you can't get from dosing 2 part, and kalk :P Kalk has everything!

I just use the simple basic stuff.

2 Part and Kalk.

My light consists of 4 20k MH Mogul 250watts. Supplemented by 8 54watt T5 Actinics.

With a smaller volume tank, I would suggest changing the water more frequently.

Just like living in a small house, do you vaccuum one a week or one a month?

[spc1spc1]

I run 12 80 watt t-5s on a 30" deep tank. I place my wild colonies on the bottom until the color comes back then slowly raise them up. I found my aussie corals take about a month to get color back. I have some others that took almost 6-7 months. I guess different corals adjust at their own rates.

[jackson6745]

With Aquacultured, I get tired of seeing everyone having the same stuff.

ORA, LE, Tyree etc.

.


Man, you said that right. Everyone has the same corals these days. Even over here, 5 years ago more guys in my area would get wild colonies. Everyone had something different. I guess it's better for the ocean that we deal mostly in frags though:worried2:

[waxy]

Well, many aquacultured colonies derived from the wild.

Once in captivity they're bred for a sole purpose.

Regardless, I do love wild corals. Just like what spc1spc1 said, it takes some time for wild corals to color up.
You will learn to appreciate them after a few months when they color up haha.

As much as I like the aquacultured stuff, I like wild corals more.

[jcal]

My first wild colony of a nasuta browned out and about 2 months later color came back.

[shandy_say]

What kind of light do you have? Usually corals turning green that are normally not is a sign of needing more light...

Im currently using a 250watts 20K Metal Halide lamp with a large lumenbright reflector running for 6 hours a day. So I don't think light is an issue here.

In addition the po4 in my tank is constantly at 0.01 using 2 test kits (elos and API). Plus im constantly running phosban in my tank in a reactor with low flow.

Nitrates on the other hand go as high as 5ppm during feeding and revert back to 0 after my oversized skimmer (Reef Octo DNWB-150) removes whatever food is left. I also run a dsb and a LR fuge with cheato on a reverse photoperiod which doesn't even grow that fast. Haven't even needed to trim the cheato since i put it in which was almost 2 months ago.

I really don't know what else to do.

[shandy_say]

yo shandy,

sad to hear about your coral's colors. try keeping rock solid parameters - salinity, alk, ca, mg, k... aside from the given zero on nitrates & p04. also try dosing amino acids perhaps? jmho :)

best of luck!

Thanks vic. I have been keeping my params as stable as possible with calcium at around 460 and alk between 7-8 dkh. Mg i have yet to get a test kit but i just keep it up with my water changes using Red Sea Coral Pro salt. As for amino acids (Seachem Amino Acids), i don't dose directly to the tank as i have already included it in my DIY food. So i think whenever i feed it to my fish i am also adding amino acids to my tank. Salinity is stable at 1.025. I just recently started also dosing Lugol's solution at 1 drop per day.

Don't get me wrong, when i got my sps most if not all of them were brown or pale brown in color. Then after a month or so all of them started to green except for 1 pc of acropora which retained its purple tips. I don't know if im doing anything wrong as all my sps have great polyp extension and have started to grow already and some have started to encrust the LR's. Im just wondering how long it usually takes for wild colonies of sps to color up (assuming they are not green or brown to begin with). :)

[shandy_say]

Phosphates ( P04 ) cause greener pigments.
Sometimes even brown, due to massive amounts of PO4.

While small traces of nitrates is good, since it's food for the corals.

I'm not a believer in all those other random chemicals that are off the shelves.
Which claim , proven to be "growth hormones" for the corals. Nothing you can't get from dosing 2 part, and kalk :P Kalk has everything!

I just use the simple basic stuff.

2 Part and Kalk.

My light consists of 4 20k MH Mogul 250watts. Supplemented by 8 54watt T5 Actinics.

With a smaller volume tank, I would suggest changing the water more frequently.

Just like living in a small house, do you vaccuum one a week or one a month?

Hahaha! Nice comparison! heheh! Will do more water changes. However i skim wet so i do top off with saltwater instead of just topping off with RODI.

[shandy_say]

@spc1spc1 - I did that to all my sps when i got them. Placed them all on the sandbed then after sometime i moved them to their final positions.

@jcal - here's to hoping they color up! heheh!

@jackson6745 - kinda envious that you guys can get those already aquacultured corals. But here no one actually sells aquacultured sps. All we can get here are wild ones which often times arrive in very very poor condition.

[fijiblue]

Nutrients will cause the skeleton deposits to turn green, but in most cases, too little light will cause coral pigments to turn green - especially bluer bulbs. Try moving the corals up slowly and see if they respond.

As far as the nitrates go, 5ppm is nothing too high to worry about...

[shandy_say]

@fijiblue - thanks! I have my lights at around 14inches away from the water surface as this was the recommended distance for the lumebrights. You think i should lower it? I can adjust it lower if need be since the stand for my lights are adjustable anyways. Im just worried that bringing the light closer will cause temp problems for me.

[fijiblue]

I wouldn't necessarily move the lights down since the Lumenbrites do best at a higher distance:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-06/review/index.php
I would, however begin moving some of these corals up and adjust accordingly.

[shandy_say]

Thanks fijiblue.

[shandy_say]

btw, im running my light for only 6 hours a day. Would increasing it to lets say 7 or 8 hours improve color?

[fijiblue]

Possibly, but I would try to increase the intensity first by moving a few up and monitoring them.

[justins13]

Do you have them high in the tank already? If not I agrea just move them up slow and monitor closely.

[shandy_say]

They are already at the highest point i can place them at so im only left with 2 options:
1. lower the lights, and
2. Increase photoperiod
Just noticed that my other brown acro starting to turn green also.

[shandy_say]

Here are some pics of my sps:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/shandy_say/IMG_5888.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/shandy_say/IMG_5890.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/shandy_say/IMG_5902.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/shandy_say/IMG_5894.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/shandy_say/IMG_5904.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/shandy_say/IMG_5724.jpg

As you can see, most of them are different shades of green or brown. Some have gained a more intense shade of green while others have changed from brown to green.

[eros]

where they a different color when you purchased them? Perhaps they are just green/brown corals? Those are definitely the 2 dominant colors in corals.

[shandy_say]

Some of them had a lighter green or were fully brown when i got them. Then after a few week they started to intensify their green colors or change colors from brown to green.

For example, the birdsnest in the 1st picture arrived yellowish brown. Then after 2 weeks it started to turn green. Then now that same piece is almost completely green from base to tip.

Perhaps they are just green or brown to begin with. A single purple tip acro i got still retained its color though.

[cdan]

Hi Shandy,
Be patient all of my colonies are also wild and it has taken up to 18 months for some to show coloration and decent growth. You will find that if you take a frag form these colonies the growth and colour of the frag will be much greater than with the mother colony.

[waxy]

Strange how that works, but it's definitely true.

18 months... that's time for 2 Christmas's.

[shandy_say]

Thanks. I do love the fact that my sps have 1-2mm growth every 3 days. Still hoping that they color up though.

[shandy_say]

Strange how that works, but it's definitely true.

18 months... that's time for 2 Christmas's.

hahahah Would you have pics of frags from wild colonies that have better coloration than the mother colony?

[cdan]

Yeah will post pics later don't know why it happens just does.

[Dog boy Dave]

I wouldnt expect them to collect brown corals. Some of mny wild colonies are still changing colors 5 or 6 years after they were collected. Dont ever give up on a green coral. They often develop blue and purple if the tank conditions are right. Sometimes it takes years to find the right mix. I have success obtaining very intense colors in fish heavy high nutrient system combined with extremely intense lighting and high flow. The colors in many of my wild colonies are actually brighter under the 10 K lights as they develop the intensity that i find to be missing under the 20 k lights.

[Lyfey]

shandy, I think you are dosing too much amino acids. I would stop all dosing of amino acids and increase feeding. I have known people that overdose aminos that it turns all corals brown / dark colors. Certain reefers I know only dose aminos when their colors turn pale or light. I would stop the AA's and I bet you they will color up nicely!

just my .02c Cheers!
-Chris

[jbanks]

shandy, I think you are dosing too much amino acids. I would stop all dosing of amino acids and increase feeding. I have known people that overdose aminos that it turns all corals brown / dark colors. Certain reefers I know only dose aminos when their colors turn pale or light. I would stop the AA's and I bet you they will color up nicely!

just my .02c Cheers!
-Chris

I agree here. It would be different if your corals were turning very pale.. In that case aminos can certainly help.. If there already dark, I would back off. What I've noticed with wild colonies, is that the higher the flow the better.. I have seen pieces come back in my tank because what i thought was good flow was fine for some of my aquacultured coral, but way too little for the wild pieces.. reef water is way more turbulent in the wild then in our glass boxes..

[Stanley-Reefer]

Are we counting maricultured pieces here? I've got some real winners at the LFS and Liveaquaria later.

Only good pic is this one from the lfs for now:

May/09
http://i42.*******.com/2nsnsk.jpg

Sept/09
http://i33.*******.com/2cx9m4h.jpg

12/09
http://i45.*******.com/1oozkn.jpg

Can you tell the progression of Vodka with MB7 and a hint of biodigest???

[chercm]

corals from Waltsmith is wild sps correct ?

[shandy_say]

@Dog boy dave - thanks dave. Haven't given up yet!

@Lyfey & Jbanks- I don't dose AA directly into the tank. The AA is in the DIY food i feed my fishes which is just 1/2 inch x 1/2 inch 2 times a day. The AA is very very minimal. I only put a total of 2 capfuls per 1/4 kilo of DIY food.

@stanley-reefer - those are very nice pieces you have there. :)

[ptan]

nice thread you having here Shandy! I think the last resource we can get is to frag the colonies that we got from the wild and put it in our tank... maybe with small frags, wild frags can slowly adopt less flow and less lights and eventually color up... what you think guys?

[waxy]

nice thread you having here Shandy! I think the last resource we can get is to frag the colonies that we got from the wild and put it in our tank... maybe with small frags, wild frags can slowly adopt less flow and less lights and eventually color up... what you think guys?

Aquacultured corals were once wild, being raised in captivity, they reach their full potential.

While wild corals on the otherhand, need a helping hand. Might as well be you or me :)

[Ido1]

What about maricultured Acroporas?
Would you consider them wild colonies?

[waxy]

Aquacultured -----> Maricultured ----------> Wild
Fully Captive -----> Cultured in the wild ----> Wild Caught

Basically, Maricultured corals is between Aquacultured and wild caught.
It's still considered wild, but bred in captivity :) Hard to explain, or hard to explain by the explainer :P

[shandy_say]

@ptan-thanks! I haven't done any fragging of any of my wild sps. The only fragging i have done is to remove the dead branches of the damaged sps when they arrive. I know for a fact that this helps as ive seen many of my sps that recovered fully after fragging. Coloration however i have yet to see.

@waxy - hope you can post some pics of the wild colonies you fragged that colored up. If you have before and after pics that would be great. :D

[cdan]

Shandy,
Please see pics belowfirst pic is origional colony second is frag in each. Sorry for poor quality photos but camera is crap.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m214/cdansmc/pics130.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m214/cdansmc/pics132.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m214/cdansmc/pics134.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m214/cdansmc/pics133.jpg
All pics were taken a couple of days ago. As you can see colours are lighter on frags but still coming good and I can assure you growth is much greater with the frags.

[shandy_say]

Nice! Thanks cdan! Will definitely keep this in mind when I get new wild colonies.

[eros]

What about maricultured Acroporas?
Would you consider them wild colonies?

Aquacultured corals are grown under natural sunlight and in the sea so their requirements are very similar to wild colonies. They will not be adapted to aquarium lighting or flow like aquacultured so they are still a gamble IME.

I have an aquacultured coral that does ok but the frags I make off it end up looking much nicer and grow faster than the than the colony. I've never kept them long enough to see what they turn into long term though.

The best thing about my maricultured colony is the acro crab. :thumbsup:

[shandy_say]

I used to remove those acro crabs but later on i just left them alone. I now have several in my tank switching from one acro to another from time to time. Is it true that they are actually beneficial?

[waxy]

I see my acro crabs at night, switching from one acro to another.

They're quite beneficial and do not harm your acro's. It's great to have one around to do all the cleaning around the house. Their acro home that is.

I've seen one of my acro crabs jump up at least 1" in the water to hook their claw on an acro branch. I was totally amazed, because the crab was the size of half a dime.

[eros]

I used to remove those acro crabs but later on i just left them alone. I now have several in my tank switching from one acro to another from time to time. Is it true that they are actually beneficial?

I was fragging the coral the other day and the acro crab was attacking the bone shears. I'd say they are beneficial. Some have reported they help with AEFW. I don't know if it's been confirmed but it would make sense.

[waxy]

I was fragging the coral the other day and the acro crab was attacking the bone shears. I'd say they are beneficial. Some have reported they help with AEFW. I don't know if it's been confirmed but it would make sense.

I would assume since they're present in the acro, the presence of pests are non existant.

On a side note, not only do they stick with 1 coral. They jump around, I have a pair living in my Echinata and it's totally awesome.

They don't fight or anything, I hope they lay eggs so my wrasses and corals have food to eat.

My wrasses love them, so they try to stay very close to the corals. It's probably why they only come out at night.

[shandy_say]

I saw 2 now living amongst my SPS colonies. I even saw one jump about 5 inches up then floated down to another acro even while the lights were on. Amazing! Cute little buggers also! :D

[waxy]

I saw 2 now living amongst my SPS colonies. I even saw one jump about 5 inches up then floated down to another acro even while the lights were on. Amazing! Cute little buggers also! :D

The only way you'll have acro crabs is when you have wild corals :)
Sounds like someone has a tank full of wild corals \:D/

My wrasses would tear them to shreds if they were ever exposed.
Nonetheless, they're definitely fun to watch.

[shandy_say]

Yeah! About 90% of my corals are wild. Heheh! 100% of my SPS are Wild colonies. Like i said, its nearly impossible to get aquacultured corals here. If we can get some, it would cost about 10-20x as much as a wild one.

Btw, do crabs help in coloring up SPS since they do clean the branches of SPS colonies? Might be a dumb question but it just occured to me that since they clean the SPS, more light and flow are able to reach the flesh of the coral.

[Ido1]

waxy and eros,thanks :)

[shandy_say]

Another issue with my wild SPS...

Was able to get a blue wild acro that was really blue! Then after a week in my tank it lost its blue. Been able to keep yellows, purples, reds, and greens already but having a hard time keeping blues. Read somewhere that it might be potassium deficiency. Can anyone give me advise on this? :) Thanks in advance!