Help, tank got shocked.

[xskyzx]

one of the pump wires was torn so the tank was shocked prolly a good 30 mins or so, i took out the pump, now all my corals are "dying" most of sps are losing tissues and turning white. soft and lps are all closed.

i just did 30% water change, and about do another 30% in the morning.

should i take out the corals bc they are "dying" or just leave it in there?

my fish and shrimp are still ok .

what should i do next .


thanks in advance.

[tibob32]

I wouldn't change anything nor remove anything that isn't 100% dead. Give them a change to recover

[brascal1]

I would suggest using GFCI outlets and putting in a grounding rod so this doesn't happen to your corals again or YOU next time...

[johnd651]

I would suggest using GFCI outlets and putting in a grounding rod so this doesn't happen to your corals again or YOU next time...

and remember if you do use a grounding probe...it has to be plugged into a gfci to work

[Chris27]

and remember if you do use a grounding probe...it has to be plugged into a gfci to work

Why do you need a GFCI for it to work?

[Chiefsurfer]

^I also would like to know this. My landlord is too cheap to run GFCI on all the outlets, so he has like 5 in the house, and the "regular" outlets run "after" the gfci, so technically it is protected. He would never let me do an ounce of work on the house, so I could NEVER get an actual outlet behind my tank, BUT it is on a protected circuit. Would that work?

[brubinfeld]

i would run carbon on it

[brascal1]

Yes a circuit protected by a GFCI downstream will work. The object is to get the GFCI to trip. A GFCI outlet trips when it doesn't get the same amount of electricity that leaves on black returning on white - so if it exits via the ground wire (probe) or to another circuit/ground/etc it trips immediately.

[xskyzx]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/xskyzx/fishhh/orange.jpg this is orange cap andhow they look now, should i take them out?

thanks guys...

[Chiefsurfer]

i'd say your orange cap is toast, sorry.

Thanks for the info brascal, now I just have to figure out which GFCI runs the outlet in my bedroom(some are in a different apartment)

[brascal1]

They sell a device at Home Depot or Lowes that is a 3 prong GFCI tester - should be under $20. You plug it in an outlet and it lights up green lights if wired correctly, there is a button to press which will trip your GFCI. Then you hunt for the tripped GFCI - most will have a light on them when tripped. If not they will have a reset button that is extended out. You may be able to hear it click when it trips as well. The same device can be used to see if the GFCI is the tripped one if in question - plug it in and if no lights its tripped.

[Chiefsurfer]

yeah, no I have all kinds of electrical testing equipment, and meters and amprobes, etc. Just kind of trying to pep-talk myself for the hunt, as it will likely take a long time running from my apartment ot the back apartment, then to the one upstairs, checking everything.

[stevek480]

Why do you need a GFCI for it to work?

If you have a grounding probe without GFCI, the stray voltage from the pump would simply travel from the pump to the probe and through the ground wire. This means there would be current inside you tank, and you would get shocked if you put your hands inside the tank. You need the GFCI to detect the stray voltage being lost to ground and trip to cut the circuit.

[johnd651]

If you have a grounding probe without GFCI, the stray voltage from the pump would simply travel from the pump to the probe and through the ground wire. This means there would be current inside you tank, and you would get shocked if you put your hands inside the tank. You need the GFCI to detect the stray voltage being lost to ground and trip to cut the circuit.

+1...exactly

sorry i was on my way to work, but also, if you do not want to go on a manhunt looking for the GFCI outlet/install new outlets...this is also a possibility

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xil/R-100140196/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

[brascal1]

I'll just add that if you use one of those GFCI's on a cord don't think that it will trip first if you are on a GFCI'd outlet - either could go. I've seen folks believe that the last one in line (closest) would pop first that way their pump wouldn't go off if their lights popped it and found out they were wrong. Which ever one is more sensative to the issue at the time it happens pops...

[Chris27]

+1...exactly

sorry i was on my way to work, but also, if you do not want to go on a manhunt looking for the GFCI outlet/install new outlets...this is also a possibility

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xil/R-100140196/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

In this case though, wouldn't having a ground probe in the tank caused a circuit breaker to blow even without a GFCI?

[stevek480]

Circuit breakers are only designed to trip if the current exceeds the rated amperage (ie. 15A for most). If current is flowing to ground at less than 15 amps the breaker will do nothing, and you could still be dead...

[TwistedEnvy]

I'm confused. One day my heater was exposed and the glass broke. When it turned on again, the voltage was spread throughout the tank. When I put my hands in I didn't notice anything at all, however, I stand on a stepstool to reach into my tank because I'm short. The stepstool has a metal rim so when my leg touched it I got shocked like holy hell. Why did this happen?

[w16227]

I'm confused. One day my heater was exposed and the glass broke. When it turned on again, the voltage was spread throughout the tank. When I put my hands in I didn't notice anything at all, however, I stand on a stepstool to reach into my tank because I'm short. The stepstool has a metal rim so when my leg touched it I got shocked like holy hell. Why did this happen?

1st time - you probably did not complete a ground loop. Maybe runner shoes or something to that effect.

When your leg touched the metal - you completed a circuit- something on the stool was linked to ground.

Similar to birds on high tension wires - they are sitting on a live electrical wire - but not touching a ground so they do not become toast.

[TwistedEnvy]

1st time - you probably did not complete a ground loop. Maybe runner shoes or something to that effect.

When your leg touched the metal - you completed a circuit- something on the stool was linked to ground.

Similar to birds on high tension wires - they are sitting on a live electrical wire - but not touching a ground so they do not become toast.

I figured that out, I reread my question and realized I didn't make sense.

My real question is, with all that voltage in the tank, shouldn't there have been some ill effects on the fish/coral? Would you be better off leaving the tank ungrounded?

[brascal1]

Yes stray voltage is bad for corals/fish. However with GFCI theoretically you shouldn't have any. But if you leave it unprotected then when the heater breaks and you stick your hand in, if there is 15 amps you get all of it. it only takes .1 amp to kill a human. Luckily our skin is very resistant so it takes alot to get that amperage. However combine water and that drops dramatically, salt water even more. Standing on a cement floor even more. Holding onto a ground with the other hand ....

[stevek480]

My real question is, with all that voltage in the tank, shouldn't there have been some ill effects on the fish/coral? Would you be better off leaving the tank ungrounded?

If you don't have a GFCI outlet, you should not use a grounding probe. Using a grounding probe alone would put current into your tank and cause problems for the fish (that's not to say there wouldn't be stray current even without a grounding rod). However, without GFCI you are putting yourself at risk if you introduce a path to ground (like in your case). So bottom line, at the very least use a GFCI outlet.

[xskyzx]

should i turn on the light for couple hrs, or that would them stress out more, "pompom xenia" is melted :(. my rics still look ok but sps is no good.

[Chiefsurfer]

brascal1, with enough voltage, actually only .005 amps are needed to be fatal. However, you can be exposed to much more than 5 milli-amps and be fine, case and point, all the people surviving lightning strikes. Other than that, how you explained it was point on.

The worst path for electricity is through the center of your body. Besides with HUGE voltage and amperage frying you, the biggest concern is that your heart runs on electrical signals, VERY similar to those given off by AC electricity. However, your heart runs at a certain amount of "signals" per second, and electricity is different. Mixing signals can make your stop, or beat really fast until it explodes.

If you are insulated from ground(rubber shoes, rubber gloves on your hands, etc.) you should feel nothing when putting your hand in your tank under any circumstances. Electricity ALWAYS travels on the path of LEAST resistance. our skin has a pretty HIGH resistance, whether it be wet or dry. For this reason, if voltage is just present in your tank, unless it finds a path through you to GROUND, you will not feel it.

If you have a grounding rod, it will hit the grounding rod, and should trip the gfci outlet/circuit.

[w16227]

If you don't have a GFCI outlet, you should not use a grounding probe. Using a grounding probe alone would put current into your tank and cause problems for the fish (that's not to say there wouldn't be stray current even without a grounding rod). However, without GFCI you are putting yourself at risk if you introduce a path to ground (like in your case). So bottom line, at the very least use a GFCI outlet.

Adding to this ---

I have been researching this a lot recently as my latest coral issues may be caused by stray voltage.

My initial thoughts weer that the GFCI outlets were the all the protection needed.

That would be true if something broke in the tank exposing electricity to the tank --- but not for "induced" voltage. This will not trip the GFCI.

I am not an electrician, so my description may not be fundamentally incorrect -- but basically, when you are running electrical devices submerged (or even near such as lighting fixtures) in the tank, there is an electrical potential that can "induce" a voltage. rotating pumps - heaters and the like can all cause some measurable AV voltage in our tanks.

I tested mine last night - found 30+ VAC -- without even all of my lights on (more testing needed for sure). One heater - WHEN NOT ACTIVATED -- appeared to drip 7V into the tank.

Now - there is debate as to weather or not induced voltage is harmful to the tank AND weather or not a ground probe will help. The bird on a wire thing - as soon as you add a ground probe you then complete the circuit. Safer for a person-- as harmful levels may/should trip the GFCI instead of you getting a jolt. No idea on the tank inhabitants (what happens when you add the probe)--- but I will probably find out soon.

[xskyzx]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/xskyzx/fishhh/photo-6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/xskyzx/fishhh/photo-6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/xskyzx/fishhh/photo3.jpg top green birdnest , bottom orange cap

as you can see theyr all white, can they still recover? or should i take them out now

thanks

[bertoni]

The ones that are all white likely are dead, but leaving them in the tank is fine at this point.

I'd do more water changes, run a lot of fresh carbon, and consider a PolyFilter. There could be copper from the wire in the system, and dead organisms can release toxins.

[JimmyR1Rider]

Sorry to hear you went through that and lost livestock, better luck in the future....Jimmy:worried: