Terrible news for many many species, one of Which is the Clipperton Angel

[michael_cb_125]

http://************.com/2010/02/22/xylene-tanker-runs-aground-clipperton-island-10000-tons-chemicals-threaten-ecosystem/


Terrible News.

~Michael

[michael_cb_125]

[violation]

A tanker has run aground at Clipperton Atoll and is leaking Xylene.

Why would a tanker be anywhere near this atoll?

~Michael

[jhawkor]

What a terrible place to be leaking Xylene......

[serval]

That is really awful. Tankers carrying chemicals of any sort in quantity should be double hulled. I know this would increase the price of things, but it needs to happen.

On a separate, nit picky note, it is annoying that RC won't allow links to other sites to be pasted, isn't it? It isn't as if we will all go off and use those other sites to the exclusion of theirs. Why do they do that?

[LobsterOfJustice]

This is what I hate about red tape and bureaucratics. Last year several of those angelfish died in a warehouse somewhere because paperwork was improperly filled out - and now the species may be lost forever.

[DJREEF]

Who wants to form a posse to go whip that captain's ***!

DJ

[yukonblizzard]

I heard Clipperton's were going to be available this summer, I guess not anymore. :(

[tcmfish]

They probably were, but if you read the link they cancelled a trip to collect. They will probably get collected eventually, there is a demand for them.

http://www.marinebreeder.org/
http://liveaquaria.com/

Also hows that for some links ^ for some reason it is only certain sites.

[Toddrtrex]

........

On a separate, nit picky note, it is annoying that RC won't allow links to other sites to be pasted, isn't it? It isn't as if we will all go off and use those other sites to the exclusion of theirs. Why do they do that?

The most likely reason that RC is blocking the site linked in the OP is because they were trying to drive traffic to their site by having people come here and post a bunch of links to that site.

So the odds are very good if you see a bunch of " ****** " for a site, it is that site's actions that caused RC to block them.

[copps]

My prediction... Clipperton will be fine... and so will any upcoming collection trip there... :)

Copps

[roktsintst]

That is great news John!!!

[Cultivatedcoral]

Maybe when they start collecting Clipperton's a year or two from now they will find some two-headed ones due to the Xylene leak. Now that would be an expensive fish! Just kidding.

It's a shame these tanker Captain's don't know how to navigate properly. Where did he get his Captain's license, Sears & Roebuck?

[jhawkor]

My prediction... Clipperton will be fine... and so will any upcoming collection trip there... :)

Copps

I hope your right.

[mpoletti]

I hope so John, but if the island and surrounding island gets shut down, I'm not sure how Steve will get his paperwork for access especially since these type of disasters can shut things down for awhile. But I know nothing as I am just another avid fish geek.

[AquaKnight]

How on earth anyone can decipher that the Captain was at fault, or there was a navigational error from two short paragraphs? :confused: None of which mention anything eluding to the cause....

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[neoyhng]

<font size="1" color="#0000FF">Your post is in violation of the <a href="http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php/user-agreement">terms and conditions of use</a> of this web site and has been edited. Further violations will result in revocation of your posting privileges.</font>

A tanker has run aground at Clipperton Atoll and is leaking Xylene.

Why would a tanker be anywhere near this atoll?

~Michael

I am a bit skeptical of the news. The only source of the news is from a local press in Tahiti, in which a small coverage mentioned the ship concerned, Sichem Osprey, "grounded" at Clipperton Atoll on 10 Feb 2010. There was no mentioning of any leakage.

While I am also concerned about pollution, it seems that this is a very minor incident that won't have any long term implication. God bless.

[rekn]

How on earth anyone can decipher that the Captain was at fault, or there was a navigational error from two short paragraphs? :confused: None of which mention anything eluding to the cause....

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

anything negative that happens is the capts fault. hes in command for everything.

[username in use]

anything negative that happens is the capts fault. hes in command for everything.

Thats true, but navigating a ship around the world is a daunting task for anyone. The fact is that even the greatest of captains can have a series of events that would lead them to hitting a reef in the middle of the ocean. It may be more and more rare as technology improves, but it will happen. The real issue is why arent they required to build ships that can handle being run aground without leaking? We have the technology to do just that, but people need to see seals and saegulls coated in oil to demand that kind of change.

[copps]

That is great news John!!!

Not news... just an educated hunch...

So who here in the states is interested in a clipperton if they become available? Anyone who knows me does not need an answer from me... :beer:

[rekn]

They probably were, but if you read the link they cancelled a trip to collect. They will probably get collected eventually, there is a demand for them.

http://www.marinebreeder.org/
http://liveaquaria.com/

Also hows that for some links ^ for some reason it is only certain sites.

the difference is the 2 sites you posted pay RC money

[michael_cb_125]

John- I have been waiting and waiting for these fish......

~Michael

[copps]

Is that a yes Michael? :)

[michael_cb_125]

;) Yes, indeed.

~Michael

[jhawkor]

Not news... just an educated hunch...

So who here in the states is interested in a clipperton if they become available? Anyone who knows me does not need an answer from me... :beer:

I wish...Until I have my 180 gallon my Regal and Coral Beauty will have to get me by.

[kvosstra]

John,

Got an estimated price for one of them?

Best,
-Kyle

[ccampbell57]

~$5500-$6000 is a good estimate

[copps]

John,

Got an estimated price for one of them?

Best,
-Kyle

This is pure educated speculation on my part, and obviously it depends on many factors that no one could know in advance... but I'd guess around three times the price of a clarion angel...

[kvosstra]

~$5500-$6000 is a good estimate Thanks Chris - I think the combination of the orange clarion and green clip would be a nice combo in a large tank...Have to get some wife approval unfortunately for that!

This is pure educated speculation on my part, and obviously it depends on many factors that no one could know in advance... but I'd guess around three times the price of a clarion angel...

John, seems to be the same estimate that Chris gave. We can talk shop later this summer, looks like the move to Philly is a go in Late June. Now, I need to find a tank for the new house!

[AquaKnight]

anything negative that happens is the capts fault. hes in command for everything.
How is a ship that's dead-stick and gets pushed ashore, the Captian's fault?

[Sardaukar]

How is a ship that's dead-stick and gets pushed ashore, the Captian's fault?

Its sort of like how a good QB in football always accepts the blame for his teams defeat, no matter the cause. Unless one of the engineers flipped everyone the bird and jammed a wrench in some gears, the captain's probably going to accept at least some of the blame.

[Luiz Rocha]

Hi all, I saw those news a couple of days ago and a few colleagues and I are trying to go there to assess the damage. There will be a trip next April but I am not sure if I will be on it (teaching this semester :( ). Will keep you posted.

[cortez marine]

Guys,
Its been 13-14 days since it happened and theres still no updated, official press on it?
All the posts have fed off each other and repeated the old news.

By now, something new must have happened . Like everyone, I'm waiting to hear "did it leak, did it not? Was it just a bit was it not?
Did the re-load the stuff? Did they tow it away? What?

Besides the aquarium trade, the grounding has been of interest to other trades. Sportfishing, ham radio people, shipping news forums, etc.
Check out the photo from teakdoor.com....Teak door, really.

Its a beautiful photo and shows they hit on a calm spell. The danger is that it is very often not calm there at all! Big waves and a storm could pull, puncture and tear at the hull where all the animal fat is stored. It carried a lot of animal fat . If the xelene comparment holds but not the other, we could have perhaps a great big animal fat spill.

Speculation is the sport here and in the absence of new news, it can go really off kilter. It could be a temporary nothing story....
Then again it could be worse.... who knows?

Sincerely, Steve

[stunreefer]

Wow, crazy piture Steve!

Let's hope there's no xylene or fat spilled...

[cortez marine]

Thanks,
Its stuck at the time of the photo.
Having a fair amount of direct knowledge of the place...I can tell you its stuck on the north end where the biggest storm waves come from.
Its in the thickest part of reef in fact.
It will not stay calm for long....somethings gotta give. I have an associate talking to the authorities tomorrow and hope for an update.

Steve

[clippo]

this is just the worst news :-(

[clippo]

I can tell you its stuck on the north end where the biggest storm waves come from.

are you sure about that? from the image and my map it looks like it's on the East side of the Atoll.

One other thing... you people STILL talking about collecting fish from this location really need to stop and think for a minute. Even before this happened this location had been over exploited by people. It just needs to be LEFT ALONE... even more so now (other than legit study of course).

This is from Wikipedia about xylene.

Xylene exhibits neurological effects. High levels from exposure for acute (14 days or less) or chronic periods (more than 1 year) can cause headaches, lack of muscle coordination, dizziness, confusion, and balance[citation needed] . Exposure of people to high levels of xylene for short periods can also cause irritation of the skin, eyes, nose, and throat, difficulty in breathing and other problems with the lungs, delayed reaction time, memory difficulties, stomach discomfort, and possibly adverse effects on the liver and kidneys. It can cause unconsciousness and even death at very high levels (see inhalants). Xylene or products containing Xylene should not be used indoors or around food. Xylene is not a controlled substance.

Studies of unborn animals indicate that high concentrations of xylene may cause increased numbers of deaths, and delayed growth and development.[citation needed] In many instances, these same concentrations also cause damage to the mothers. It is not yet known whether xylene harms the unborn fetus if the mother is exposed to low levels of xylene during pregnancy.

Besides occupational exposure, the principal pathway of human contact is via soil contamination from leaking underground storage tanks containing petroleum products. Humans who come into contact with the soil or groundwater may become affected. Use of contaminated groundwater as a water supply could lead to adverse health effects.

[jhawkor]

are you sure about that? from the image and my map it looks like it's on the East side of the Atoll.

One other thing... you people STILL talking about collecting fish from this location really need to stop and think for a minute. Even before this happened this location had been over exploited by people. It just needs to be LEFT ALONE... even more so now (other than legit study of course).

This is from Wikipedia about xylene.

Xylene exhibits neurological effects. High levels from exposure for acute (14 days or less) or chronic periods (more than 1 year) can cause headaches, lack of muscle coordination, dizziness, confusion, and balance[citation needed] . Exposure of people to high levels of xylene for short periods can also cause irritation of the skin, eyes, nose, and throat, difficulty in breathing and other problems with the lungs, delayed reaction time, memory difficulties, stomach discomfort, and possibly adverse effects on the liver and kidneys. It can cause unconsciousness and even death at very high levels (see inhalants). Xylene or products containing Xylene should not be used indoors or around food. Xylene is not a controlled substance.

Studies of unborn animals indicate that high concentrations of xylene may cause increased numbers of deaths, and delayed growth and development.[citation needed] In many instances, these same concentrations also cause damage to the mothers. It is not yet known whether xylene harms the unborn fetus if the mother is exposed to low levels of xylene during pregnancy.

Besides occupational exposure, the principal pathway of human contact is via soil contamination from leaking underground storage tanks containing petroleum products. Humans who come into contact with the soil or groundwater may become affected. Use of contaminated groundwater as a water supply could lead to adverse health effects.

I'm sure they're all for whatever is best for the Atoll. If that means leaving it alone for a few years then so be it. Do we know how bad this really was yet though?

[cortez marine]

Clipperton is awash in heavy currents, waves and deep blue ocean all around.
If ever there were a place that would get a dilution and cleansing by the elements it is this one. That is if something bad happens which as of today, we do not know.

Since the guano miners a hundred years ago it has been fished.

The tuna fishing industry hit up Clipperton for half a century ago skimming it thruout the non hurricane season year after year.

The long range tuna and wahoo sport fishers discovered the place in the 80's and after 20 plus years of trophy hunting are now kept out.

In recent decades, it was fished intensively by serious shark long liners who ringed the island with hundreds of long lines bearing thousands of baited hooks. They are now kept out.
The decimation of the once famous sharks gave rise to an outta proportion population of reef fishes which will soon go back down as the sharks return as the French navys total control of the place continues.

No one approaches the island without their knowledge now.
No one can do much of anything including visit the island without their knowledge and consent which comes via permission of the high commission.

So, perhaps one may relax and leave it to their good graces to decide how best to administer and manage the place.

I know of no other national park or protected territory patroled by a full fledged warship bristling with electronic hardware and weaponry and boatloads of marines w/ automatic weapons.

The greatest threats to Clipperton are tankers ships laden with poisons, chemicals and oil by factors of huge numbers to one.
Steve

[clippo]

the points you make highlight the situation perfectly Steve. You and your big money clients are just another in a long line of threats to this place. As for the 'French navys total control' I have to try not to laugh out-loud. Infact your points exemplify their lack of management of this place. By the way this is the same goverment that considered using the place for nuclear testing! But hey if they are patrolling the waters it must mean that you can take what you like?

Being ultimately responsible for the loss of dozens of these fish only recently I'd have thought you'd have got the message by now. Infact, that loss isn't the first I've heard of and I am still trying to establish who was involved in an earlier incident which was reported by the DXers around 2000. From what I can see your motivation in this is purely profit driven.

I know I am liable to get intense flaming from certain individuals for my views here but frankly I'll handle that if it goes even a tiny step towards making people think twice about keeping these fish (and others from similar situations). Although I have limited knowldge of import etc, I can see that this location is unlike the majority of other areas that marine specimens are imported from. There is no benefit to local economies here... no chance of building something sustainable... just take, take, take.

Take the Resplendent Angel as an example.... this fish is similar to the Clipperton Angel and is currently listed as 'vulnerable' on the IUCN Red List (having been 'endangered' at one point). Yet the Clipperton Angel is not even evaluated. I won't rely on this getting through to people though.

By the way, anyone interested in trying to do something about getting this place protection please feel free to PM me. :fish2:

[wdt2000]

Will Xylene stay in the ecosystem for long periods of time or is this short term?

[cortez marine]

Apparently it does its worst and disappates quickly...read below.
Aa an aquatic weed control agent it wouldn't be used if there were long term or residual, lasting issues.
Thats a big relief;
What is not a relief is that there has been no news since the Tahitian Press dated Feb 11th...and our own papparazzi . It seems that there is little concern unless something gives value and relevant interest to reefs as does tropical fish.
We have seen this time and time again. People lose interest unless you can make it real and relevant.
Steve




title: Residues of emulsified xylene in aquatic weed control and their impact on rainbow trout.
Personal Authors: Walsh, D. F., Armstrong, J. G., Bartley, T. R., Salman, H. A., Frank, P. A.
Author Affiliation: Eng. Res. Cent. Bur. Recl., Denver, Colorado, USA.
Editors: No editors
Document Title: Report, Engineering and Research Center, Bureau of Reclamation

Abstract:
Emulsified xylene is used to control aquatic weeds in irrigation systems which may occasionally return irrigation water to aquatic habitats that maintain trout populations. Laboratory studies were conducted to determine the effects of xylene on rainbow trout, Salmo gairdneri, and to measure dissipation of xylene residues in irrigation waters as treated water flowed through canals, into irrigated fields, and thence into return flows. Rainbow trout exposed to emulsified xylene for 2 hours survived a concentration of 7.1 p.p.m., but suffered 100% mortality at 16.1 p.p.m. An off-flavour was produced in fillets of rainbow trout after exposure to 7.1 p.p.m. of xylene for 2 hours, or to 0.36 p.p.m. for 56 days, and was dependent on concentration and exposure. Residues of xylene in fillets of rainbow trout and off-flavour were directly related.

Publisher:


About CAB Abstracts
CAB Abstracts is a unique and informative resource covering everything from Agriculture to Entomology to Public Health. In April 2006 we published our 5 millionth abstract, making it the largest and most comprehensive abstracts database in its field.

There are numerous records and resources related to this abstract in the CAB Abstracts database. At this time, your institution does not subscribe to CAB Direct so you cannot access them. To find out more about this exciting resource, and how to subscribe, please click here.

[jmaneyapanda]

Sadly, I think the earthquake in Chile is going to ravage that tanker on the reef......

[Yurivd]

the points you make highlight the situation perfectly Steve. You and your big money clients are just another in a long line of threats to this place. As for the 'French navys total control' I have to try not to laugh out-loud. Infact your points exemplify their lack of management of this place. By the way this is the same goverment that considered using the place for nuclear testing! But hey if they are patrolling the waters it must mean that you can take what you like?

Being ultimately responsible for the loss of dozens of these fish only recently I'd have thought you'd have got the message by now. Infact, that loss isn't the first I've heard of and I am still trying to establish who was involved in an earlier incident which was reported by the DXers around 2000. From what I can see your motivation in this is purely profit driven.

I know I am liable to get intense flaming from certain individuals for my views here but frankly I'll handle that if it goes even a tiny step towards making people think twice about keeping these fish (and others from similar situations). Although I have limited knowldge of import etc, I can see that this location is unlike the majority of other areas that marine specimens are imported from. There is no benefit to local economies here... no chance of building something sustainable... just take, take, take.

Take the Resplendent Angel as an example.... this fish is similar to the Clipperton Angel and is currently listed as 'vulnerable' on the IUCN Red List (having been 'endangered' at one point). Yet the Clipperton Angel is not even evaluated. I won't rely on this getting through to people though.

By the way, anyone interested in trying to do something about getting this place protection please feel free to PM me. :fish2:
I think you need a other hobby
This one is not for you

[Luiz Rocha]

I just received news from Tahitian authorities saying that no chemicals have leaked *yet*, but they also say it may take a long time for the very delicate operation of emptying the ship's cargo and removing it from the reef.

As for IUCN's category for the Clipperton Angel, I was in a workshop last year that evaluated the world's angel and butterfly fishes and it is now Vulnerable under the same category as the Ascension Centropyge due to its limited range. The process of officially updating the list will still take a few months though.

[michael_cb_125]

Good news that the cargo has not be "leaked". Lets hope they are able to remove the ship and all contents safely.

Thanks for the news Luiz!

~Michael

[Yurivd]

Steve is one of the guys that is always
saying that needling and cyanide collecting is wrong
he prompts net collecting


what do you think is the deference if a fish is eaten or collected a fish
the one is a life the other is dead
how much harem is 40 angels per year

[cortez marine]

Passers and cortez angels were listed as "vulnerable" by the Mexican government and given special protection under rule 59.
The theory was that due to limited range....the fishes needed an extra layer of protection.
I argued [unsuccessfully] that such a threat to the species would have to rupture the entire ecosystem from Northern Baja to Chile....and the last thing on anyones mind would be tropical fish.

"Vunerable" due to limited range means that something so terrible has to happen that the damage to the endemic may be a small problem in proportion to others.
I mean something like a huge volcanic eruption in the center of its dead lagoon big enough to kill a 10 mile radius....underwater.

Or, a spill so large of something that the only survivors would be in aquariums.

A tiny collection [ tiny in relation to the existing population] of less then a fraction of 1% is very close to the number 0.
Such a collection may occur once every 3-4 years ...if that due to the fishes limited appeal to aquarists in general. In fact, public aquarium and regular market saturation may occur at an embarrassingly low number....say 50 fish.

Continued, sustained collection with crowbars, cyanide and poor desperate people day in and day out....now that would be a more of a threat...yet an impossibility.

Clipperton is way to far away and way too risky and expensive an expedition to return more then once every great while.

Now, for a secret;
The now complete protection afforded by electronic survielance and military presence insures that he sharks will return to Clipperton increasingly. These would be the sharks that ran off the Conrad Limbaugh scientific expedition back in the 50's.
Now, is the only time we may see again a relatively low shark population on the island.
If they return in numbers, the predation of reef species will increase tremendously and thousands of the angels yearly will become food again as before.
The whitetips hunt at night and any soldierfish, snapper, angel or surgeon is fair game until sunup.
A return to normal is bad news for the angels out there but hey...its natural right?
Steve

[cortez marine]

Of course we want a natural equilibrium to return to the reefs .
I'm just saying that Clipperton sharks were worse then in other places. More aggressive and at smaller sizes.
Why?
Because when visiting pelagic sharks piled onto the predation already in effect by the local sharks, a competitive super predation was generated ...in a smaller, intensive area....which put even more pressure on prey species then usual.
They make a good reef patrol and will keep even more of the very few people who go in the water there.... out of the water.

Clippertons no picnic....[ no picnics allowed on the beach.]
Really, no water, hot as hell, the lagoons dead, sharks are on the rise, its too far from emergency care, full of nasty, biting sand flies and its also haunted by ghosts.
But thats another story.
Steve

[Kahuna Tuna]

one other thing... You people still talking about collecting fish from this location really need to stop and think for a minute. Even before this happened this location had been over exploited by people. It just needs to be left alone... Even more so now

+1

[cortez marine]

"Even before this happened this location had been over exploited by people. It just needs to be left alone."

The people who have been stranded at Clipperton in recent years might have a view on this.
It took 2 weeks for them to be rescued. The place is dangerous because it is so left alone.

Nearly all activity has stopped and so the post referencing the exploitation of decades gone by is nonsense.

Everything has to have a permit or you are shooed away.

[clippo]

Edited.

[Reefdiver72]

I have read many Articles on this, the damage to the reef was minimal there was no ship damage they pulled it off with a navy ship and it went on its way with no leakage. they caught it and almost got the ship shut down before they hit.

[cortez marine]

Edited.

[BrianD]

Time to put this to rest.