some general questions

[footballdude2k3]

Hello, I have been on here and have wanted to do a tank for the longest time, but since I think that I will be moving to Las Vegas at some point in the next year or so I do not want to start one until I have a more permanent place to live so I do not cause unwanted stress on fish moving them around all the time. I had a question on about how much you all spend on your fish tanks in a month or a year. I have extra money but I want to make sure that I can properly take care of everything along with all of the fish. Depending on how things shake out when I move I have been looking at everything between a 40 and a 120.

This will be the first time I have ever had a SW tank and I think that FOWLR is the way for me. I would like to have a couple false percs, and 15 tangs....j/k I would never put that many fish in a tank that small. Honestly though I know that I want the percs and I am not sure of what else, I like a lot of color so that is something that I will look for. If I get a bigger tank i would like a hippo tang, but if not then just more little colorful fish.

I have heard a lot of different sides about having sand in a tank, what do you guys suggest? I would like to get a shrimp/goby pair but if sand will make the tank crash then it is something that I would say no to. The clowns will be the last thing I add no matter what I get since they can be *****y haha. But seriously I want a peaceful tank so I do not want to overcrowd it or get fish that do not have room to move around. I would love a Picasso Trigger but I know that the tanks I want are too small, but maybe someday

Thanks in advance everybody!

[Saltcity]

Well, I spend about $12 a month maintaining my 24 gallon Nano and then whatever the electric cost is.

Just depends on what type of tank and all the equipment you are running. All I can say is SALTWATER IS EXPENSIVE!!!! No matter what you do there will always be something that you need/want or some falty equipment that needs replaced. You reall can't place a number on saltwater, you gotta be able to roll with it.

[es1887]

having sand in your tank will not make it crash. there are lots of very successful tanks that have sand in them, and lots that do not. it is just about personal preference and how much maintenance you want to do. when you first start out with a tank you are going to spend a lot more time maintaining it then you do when you get a little more experienced, but i would say that i spend around 5 hours a week or so on actual maintenance, but this for me is enjoyable. that is why it is a hobby. starting with a fowler, i feel, is the way to go. the best advice you will get is read, read, read, do some more reading, followed by some research, ask lots of questions, and then just take it slow, plan things, and remember take it SLOW. this is the best advice that i received when i first set up my tank. good luck!

[Chris27]

180 Gallon Reef -

$14 / month Salt
$2.50 month for Calcium/Alk (Mrs. Wages Kalk)
$8.00 month for Mag
$5.00 month for food
$10.00 month for water

Roughly $40 or so per month - not including electricity.

[rkb]

A few thoughts to take into consideration. On this site and in person those of us that have been in the hobby for a while see a few common errors. The most common one I see is someone has the cash to by a large tank, but cannot afford to run it or stock it. Buy what you can afford to stock and maintain. This is a stupid expensive hobby and there is now very many areas that can be skimped on.

[footballdude2k3]

Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it. I am kinda leaning towards a 55g tank right now, but everything can change, and i cant set anything up for a yearish anyway which sucks, but it is what it is. I can still learn everything and plan it out. With a FOWLR I read that lighting is not as important would PCs work? Are T5s better for fish only?

[footballdude2k3]

also, as far as reading goes, do you say books are the way to go, or can you find enough online that you dont need books?

[CWP]

I've read books, but you can get all the information you need on the internet. This site is great; because of the interaction with so many people, you can ask any question and someone will have the answer. Another good site is wetwebmedia dot com (I can't put a link in) which is run by some of the top names in the hobby, such as Bob Fenner, Anthony Calfo, and Eric Borneman. And join a local reef club. You will get the chance to see how other guys in the hobby keep their tanks so you can figure out what appeals to you. And of course, read as much as you can whenever you can.

[Mariner]

A FOWLR would certainly be a lot cheaper to maintain than a reef tank. For lighting, all you'd need is a couple of Normal Output 40w flourescent tubes over a 55g. There's no need to supplement calcium, buffer or mag, etc. So other than food and some salt and RO water for an occasional water change and possibly some carbon and/or filter media, monthly maintenance expense would be minimal -- I could see getting by with $50 per month once you're set up and stocked. You can have a several colorful fish too -- clowns, royal gramma or dottyback, a dwarf angelfish, chromis, etc. Sand is all up to what you want -- the water in a FOWLR need not be nearly as pristine as it must be in a reef tank, so I wouldn't even concern myself with all the pro/con arguments on having sand. Fish can easily tolerate nitrate and nitrite at levels that inverts cannot, so a true tank crash in a FOWLR would probably only result from a major error by you or a really bad maintanence routine.
HTH,
Mariner

[silverfly]

You could have a few softies in there too at some stage. They are easy to look after and dont need fantastic lighting or as perfect water

[Chris27]

Books are an absolute necessity in this hobby, a good collection will include titles that cover set-up and maintenance, invert id's, fish id's, chemistry, and general reef keeping.

The internet can be a great tool, if it's used properly, however there are too many self absorbed know-it-all's out there armed with a mouse and keyboard, that will lead you in the wrong direction 75% of the time.

Check out any of the books from Burgess - they are fantastic! Good luck and happy reading.

[footballdude2k3]

Thanks for all of the help everybody :)

[Chiefsurfer]

You are correct that lighting is not necessary for FOWLR tanks. Better lgithing will make your fishes colors "pop" more, but they don't need it.

There are so many questions, but compact flourescents would be fine, HOWEVER very expensive to replace the bulbs in comparison to some other bulbs. One thing I usually reccomend to people starting with the idea of a FOWLR, is get a 2-bulb strip light from Aquaticlife. Their 2-bulb t5HO will be FINE for FOWLR. ALSO, if you want to add more at any time, for the price of another strip light(found them to be about $130 for a 4ft tank) you can link it to the other one, use only one set of legs, and now have basically a single 4-bulb fixture. Then if you want to get into LPS or even SPS, add a 3rd strip light to make a 6-bulb set-up. VERY cool way of upgrading lighting, and actually kind of shocked more don't do it.

As to the tank, I would definitely go 75 or 90. They are both 48" long tanks, with a few extra inches in front-to-back depth.

Another reccomendation I might mke is to buy stuff now, slowly. If you have a little money, saving up now for lighting, skimmer, etc. would be a good idea. All that stuff should be fairly transportable, and are your larger purchases. This way, when you move, it won't be such an initial start-up expense.

[footballdude2k3]

Chief thanks for the help, you have all been great, thanks again!

[Stuart60611]

If you want to save at least 50% of the startup costs, buy your equipment used. There are a lot of used systems sold here, local reef clubs, and in Craig's List.

[footballdude2k3]

craigslist has been a regular website that i have visited ;)

[orion1]

on my fowlr tank I run 2 24watt actinic t-5's and 1 24watt white t-5 on a 55 gallon tank great color
I have both fowlr 55gallon and reef 95 gallon
my reef costs aprox $40 + electric per month
my fowlr costs aprox $15 + electric per month

[Soultwater]

Before I post again can someone tell me what FOWLR means??
Fish Only With Live Rock?
Sorry been out of the hobby for 8 years

[Soultwater]

Well assuming FOWLR means … Fish Only With Live Rock

I suppose it really depends on how bad you want this. I would drive 3 hours out of the way just to visit a good saltwater store. I think I spent about 30 minutes a day goofing around with my system but I really liked doing it. I found it very relaxing and therapeutic. For me taking care of saltwater was almost second nature while some of my friends didn’t have the same luck as I did.

After I got into saltwater I upgraded several times and could have saved money if I had gotten a few basic saltwater necessities the first time. Some things that were important for me when I started were:

Drilled tank or an overflow system
RODI system
Lighting
75 gal worked better than a 55 gal

[footballdude2k3]

Thanks for the help, due to everybodies comments I think that I am going to lean towards a 75 gallon, FOWLR is fish only with live rock :)

[ryanlala]

FOWLR is fish only with live rock.

Footballdude2k3,
I just build a 120 gallon Marineland reef tank. The cost of the whole kitten kabootle all depends on what you want, and how you want the tank to look. A FOWLR tank is much chaper to build because you dont need to run metal halide lights unless you just want too. Another large factor is how automated do you want your system to be? Some people have it set up on their controller so that they dont even have to get their hands wet doing a water change. the controller automatically does a small waterchange every day. A nice tank controller rigged up to do anything you could imagine is gonna set you back a grand by the time its all said and done. A good skimmer is a must, they range anywhere between $400-$3500. The best way to build the tank is by using "energy efficient" pumps, lights, and other items. This does 2 things. Saves you money every month on your electric bill, but most importantly puts less heat in the tank, which eliminates the need for a chiller. The break down on my 120g build was $400 for the tank, $45 for the overflow, $100 in bulkheads and glass drill bit, $85 sump (40g breeder), $650 for the skimmer, $150 return pump, $50 in heaters, $100 for koralias, $1000 for lights, $500 for the stand and canopy that i built, $250 for ro/di system, about $100 for random pluming. So that bring the total to around $3400. Damn i didnt know i was into it that much haha! You also have to factor in rock, salt, and a buch of other nickel and dime items that add up, not to mention live stock. Now you have to take in account that i didnt skimp on the items i bought. Im the kind of person who is gonna buy the best if im gonna guy at all. I think the power consumption is about $60 a month, plus salt for water chages.

[ryanlala]

You might want to consider building a 120 gallon if you have the space to do so. The cost between building a 75 vs a 120 is negligible if you are starting from scratch. On the other hand picking up a used 75 or 90 gallon could be more cost effective.