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View Full Version : Bioballs in FOWLR tank?


SATAN FISH
02/23/2010, 07:58 PM
I am setting up a 72g bow front for FOWLR. The tank comes with a built in overflow. I am wondering if I should be using bioballs in the wet/dry in the back though. I know you don't typically use them in reef tanks (I'm not in my reef tank) but if I don't use bioballs in the FOWLR, then where are you supposed to use bioballs? Or are they just a bad idea for any tank?

If I don't use the bioballs, then what kind of filter should I use on the FOWLR tank? Would the live rock and skimmer in the back be enough to keep up with two fish in the tank? I am taking some of the live rock out of my reef tank and seeding dry rock with it. So for the first few months, the dry rock wont even be live...

Basically, I am concerned about filtration. What do you guys typically do?

luckyk0505
02/23/2010, 11:09 PM
depends on what you want to keep. I never had reef, but always FOWLR

I always keep wet/dry filter. IMO wet/dry with bioball is the best way to control

ammonia.

If you have good skimmer to go with wet/dry and if you maintain everything right.

your nitrate should stay under control. Some people argue that nitrates

do not really matter in FO tank, but I believe that higher nitrates will reduce your

water quality and it causes other problems (alage, diesease due to poor water quality).

few factors you should consider for F/O tanks

Large enough tank to keep certain fish.

keeping proper community in your tank

having good amount of biological filteration

proper disease control

try not to overstock (hardest part!)

SATAN FISH
02/23/2010, 11:29 PM
depends on what you want to keep. I never had reef, but always FOWLR

I always keep wet/dry filter. IMO wet/dry with bioball is the best way to control

ammonia.

If you have good skimmer to go with wet/dry and if you maintain everything right.

your nitrate should stay under control. Some people argue that nitrates

do not really matter in FO tank, but I believe that higher nitrates will reduce your

water quality and it causes other problems (alage, diesease due to poor water quality).

few factors you should consider for F/O tanks

Large enough tank to keep certain fish.

keeping proper community in your tank

having good amount of biological filteration

proper disease control

try not to overstock (hardest part!)



Cool, thank you for the reply. I took all of my bio balls out of my wet dry for my 125gal and have just been storing them. Now I can put them in this tank.

I only plan keeping two fish, but still have yet to research the fish thoroughly. I plan on a dwarf lion and a porcupine puffer. I still don't know if they are compatible though, or if a 72 gallon bow front is even big enough for a puffer.

notoriousreef
02/24/2010, 08:18 AM
72 wont be a long term home for the puffer, but if you are willing to upgrade down the road I would think it would be ok for a little while.

footballdude2k3
02/24/2010, 08:58 AM
I have heard a lot of bad things about bioballs, based on that I would not suggest that you use them, I will not be using them ever.

jwm2k3
02/24/2010, 09:52 AM
Most are using a refugium in place of bio balls. The point of any filter media in a bio filter is to create surface area for the 'good' bacteria to grow, so it can break down the ammonia. As with almost any other filter media, bio balls can become a trap of bad things if not taken care of(cleaned and rinsed) over time. Same goes for deep sand beds, rubble rock in sumps, etc. If the media is taken care of then it should work just fine. If your lazy, like me, then things can start to go bad...High nitrates, algae problems, etc.

Ive been using bio balls in wet/dry filters for over fifteen years.

I plan to try out a refugium/sump next go around and see how that goes.

slater13
02/24/2010, 02:58 PM
I agree completely with jwm2k3. Sounds like a no-brainer to say "take care of the media or it'll go bad on you", but I bet you don't get around to cleaning out those bio balls as much as you think you will. That is, unless it's unusually easy for you to get down in the sump to maintain them. Normally they're pretty tough to get to.

When you start seeing what looks like brown sludge on them (not a light brown coat of algae) its as far as you want to let it get. If you don't clean it ASAP at that point, you'll have a nitrate factory on your hands that will be tough to contend with.

johno4
02/24/2010, 03:18 PM
BioBalls are fine to use. This conversation always makes me wonder, everyone (including me) has read that bioballs are bad and you need to use liverock or you'll have high nitrates. I am yet to see any real data that show liverock will reduce your nitrates. I actually set up an experiment in my basement to test the idea. Two buckets of old tank water nitrates read 30ppm, one bucket was filled with liverock and the other was just water. 2 months later I tested both buckets for nitrates they both read 30ppm again. So besides being more natural I dont see a huge advantage to using liverock over any other filter media. They both store bacteria that will break down ammonia and nitrite. Use a filter sock and your bio balls will work fine.

Marc
02/24/2010, 06:29 PM
BioBalls are fine to use. This conversation always makes me wonder, everyone (including me) has read that bioballs are bad and you need to use liverock or you'll have high nitrates. I am yet to see any real data that show liverock will reduce your nitrates. I actually set up an experiment in my basement to test the idea. Two buckets of old tank water nitrates read 30ppm, one bucket was filled with liverock and the other was just water. 2 months later I tested both buckets for nitrates they both read 30ppm again. So besides being more natural I dont see a huge advantage to using liverock over any other filter media. They both store bacteria that will break down ammonia and nitrite. Use a filter sock and your bio balls will work fine.

That is exactly correct on your part. I am glad there is someone out there that shares my point as well. I have used liverock for over 10 years and currently have more than 150 pounds in my 125 FOWLR. My nitrates actually rose to 100 ppm from 40ppm after adding an additional 30 pounds. Liverock has great surface area for nitrifying bacteria but have seen zero denitrification from the use of liverock. Even deep sand beds are weak at denitrification unless you have a very low fish load. And as for bioballs, bioballs will not "add nitrate to the water" as long as you keep them clean to prevent food particles and detritus to clog up and decay which would of course develop an accumulation of nitrate. Done and done.

Marc:spin1:

jwm2k3
02/24/2010, 07:57 PM
To keep on track with the 'good' posts about bioballs the correct way to clean them is to rinse in tank water so the good bacteria dosent get killed off.

viggen
02/24/2010, 09:06 PM
I have also been using bio-balls in my FO tanks for almost 20yrs now. For me it simply costs to much to load my previous 260g & present build a 475g with LR & it also limits what I can put in the tank in case one of the fish get sick. So I went the FO route......... All the big tank installs I have done we just use 1 or 2 BIG wet/dry filters.......

If you want lions, puffers & other fish that eat a lot bio-balls are a great way to clean the dirty water. But like others said, your tank is way to small for a porcupine puffer since they grow to well over a foot...... the lion can work but it limits other fish you can put in there due to fish picking on them, their poison & also they eat anything that fits in their mouth. Very cool fish..... just really limits what you can put in there.

dwarf angel, small tangs, clownfish & hawk fish should be considered. Hawk fish (flame is my favorite) have some of the best/coolest personalities in the hobby.

SATAN FISH
02/24/2010, 09:31 PM
I have also been using bio-balls in my FO tanks for almost 20yrs now. For me it simply costs to much to load my previous 260g & present build a 475g with LR & it also limits what I can put in the tank in case one of the fish get sick. So I went the FO route......... All the big tank installs I have done we just use 1 or 2 BIG wet/dry filters.......

If you want lions, puffers & other fish that eat a lot bio-balls are a great way to clean the dirty water. But like others said, your tank is way to small for a porcupine puffer since they grow to well over a foot...... the lion can work but it limits other fish you can put in there due to fish picking on them, their poison & also they eat anything that fits in their mouth. Very cool fish..... just really limits what you can put in there.

dwarf angel, small tangs, clownfish & hawk fish should be considered. Hawk fish (flame is my favorite) have some of the best/coolest personalities in the hobby.

Negative on the puffer, got it (my wife is going to be bummed). I like the look of the flame. I will look into those a little more.

Note: Bio-balls = great to use for heavy bio load if you are not lazy.

SATAN FISH
02/24/2010, 09:32 PM
To keep on track with the 'good' posts about bioballs the correct way to clean them is to rinse in tank water so the good bacteria dosent get killed off.

Put tank water in a bucket and rinse them off it that I would assume would be the obvious way to do this correct? You can't mean in the actual tank...

luckyk0505
02/24/2010, 10:19 PM
clean them when you doing a water change. You can use the old tank water to clean

bioballs. I clean about 1/4 of bioballs when I do my water change.

I gravity feed my skimmer directly from the drain, than water moves to filter sock to

wet/dry. Your goal is to not let sludge building up on your filter.

Marc
02/24/2010, 11:25 PM
I still use bioballs on my 500 as well. My wet dry tower is 2 foot by 3 feet by 48 inches tall!!! I built it myself so the wet dry holds about 20 gallons of bioballs. Never had a problem with nitrate accumulation.

Marc

HASBRO
02/25/2010, 01:47 AM
I setup my 400g with base rock and used some bioballs in my sump. Sooner or later most of us will need to nuk our tanks with cupramine, nothing like 10$ a pound live rock that you just turned in 2$ base rock.