DIY overflow very cheap with pvc. Anyone ever done this? link in description

[Killeriguana]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHYnapdM00I&feature=related

Looks to me like it would be easy, effiecient, and super cheap! Would this be worth doing? does anyone have a similar set up to this or have any reasons that it could not work?
THank you

[RocketEngineer]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=503664&pp=25&page=2

[hebygb]

I am not saying anything here that isnt said or discussed in the thread that RoketEngineer posted, but I will say here anyway because some wont follow his link. In short, yes it works. However there are some best practices that should not be overlooked. One is surface skimming. The larger the area of the prefilter the more area of the surface that is being skimmed. The second is potential for blockage increases when you have a single small drain in which any thing can crawl, swim, or float into.

There are ways to mitigate these and other concerns, but just so you take caution.

[bmkj02]

I made one a few years back for my aquapod 24g and it is 100x better then an overflow box and its still running. Just make sure you dont use a smaller drain. I ran a 3/4" drain on mine. Wish I would of gone with a 1" drain

[Muddy35]

I made one of these and have been running it for 3 months now on a red sea tank. I have tested it probably a couple hundreds times and it works like a charm!
I made mine out of 1" pvc and modified it with a "T" about 6inches below the water line and added another surface drain to prevent blockage ect... I do have noise issues and am still working to quiet them down. My return is a mag7 and this has now probems keeping up with it. Lemme know if you have ay questions..

[Killeriguana]

thanks for your help everyone! i think i will defeinintly do it and try to go by the plans in the link rocketman posted but i was thinking that just one drain instead of two would be ok and i was wanting to use a canister filter as the return pump (water in tube in the sump and the water out tube in the tank) Also I have a 55 gallon tank with a tunze 9010 skimmer, the canister filter, some xenia and polyps with a picasso trigger, tomato clowns, and lunar wrasse. ANd i have a 29 gallon with just a marineland HOB filter and an 18 inch snowflake eel by itself. I have a 25 gal and a 10 gal tank that i am not using (possible sumps) and was wondering if i should connect the tanks on to the same sump or make a sump for each of them. The only thing that i would be afraid of is that the massive waste that the snowflake eel produces will effect the stability of my main tank (55 gal that i am starting to add some trigger safe corals too.) All suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Also i have about 60 pounds of live rock total and about 50 pounds sand in 55 and 30 pounds in the 29
Thank you

[kenjr]

I just built one . im useing a 1 inch overflow and im getting 650 gallons an hour out of it . tested it buy timeing how long it took to fill my skimmer section of my sump (19gallons) . i also made a full length strainer for it with 1 1/4 pvc pipe , reducer,union and a cap drilled full of holes slid down over the 1 inch pipe so nothing can claug it (so i hope). its been 2 months running . a bunch of tests, two power outages and hasen't failed to restart yet.

[supernovabjt]

I ran one on my 20l for about a year. I had no issues, and it restarted every time. :thumbsup:

[Killeriguana]

thanks kenjr and supernovabit. the pics helped alot too. looks simple and gave me a better concept of what to do. I am getting the supplies tomorow and will try to get it setup this weekend on my 55. If it works, i will either tie my 30 into the same one or possibly just make another one to prevent my eels massive wasted from clogging up my future 55 gal reef.
THanks for your time!

[daytek]

You could try this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnWpQEkeatE

[WildFoxMedia]

Figured it was worth chiming in...

I just built one for my 29 - Took about 10 minutes to cut and snug fit together for testing. After a little adjusting it worked like a champ. I still need to get a check valve for the top, but I was able to start it by putting my hand over the end that goes to the sump and sucking on the tall vent tube.

Maybe someone who understands the design a bit more can throw in there 2 cents. Does the height of certain elements matter? For instance, should the T be above or below the U shape that is inside the tank? Is there any "best" setup for the U shape inside of the tank (Another 90 on top of it, having the tub near the waterline, having it just be whereever, etc?)

[Soultwater]

What I like to do is get the small rigid airline like you see in under gravel filters and use a small piece of this at the top of the U tube where air would get trapped and seal it wit epoxy. You can bend the airline tube if you dip the tub in a cup of boiling water for a few seconds then you can bend it into a 90 angle. I would attach a silicone rubber airline to this and feed the free end into the suction side of a powerhead in my tank. You can use another piece of rigid airline and seal it with epoxy on the powerhead if you like. I should not you do not seal the whole suction side of the powerhead.

What this will do is start a siphon and keeps a continuous siphon going clearing air pockets from forming.

If anyone has a clue what I’m babbling about can you please post a diagram??

[Muddy35]

Soulwater
Why would you modify something like this adding in a weak point that could fail and prevent the system from working?
This setup works extremely well as set up and except for maybe modifying the surface skim piece of it theres no reason to add in a siphon start... I understand trying to make it better but with about 3 yrs on this through the various threads and not one instance of it failing to hold a siphon when properly built, I would leave it alone and not add in a point where the siphon could and will eventually fail.

Wild fox- the "T" on the outside of the tank MUST be higher than the "U" inside the tank or you never keep the siphon when power goes out. The "T" idealy should be 2"inches above the "U".

As far as priming and starting it- stick a powerhead on the end of it and leave until the siphon starts- no need for trying to suck water through it to start it. Specially if your doing this with 1" diameter pvc.

[WildFoxMedia]

Muddy35 - Thanks for the info. Looking at the first picture that kenjr posted - it is incorrect in that picture since the U inside the tank is higher then the T outside the tank, right?

[Killeriguana]

I didnt think so and kenjr has had it running for a while so it must work although i am no expert on this.

[WildFoxMedia]

Most of the pictures ive seen show the U inside the tank being higher, granted, not by much, then the T on the outside.

[kenjr]

These are the plans i started with . Then i saw that people were calling these (old plans) . the new mods made them like i got mine now. I made three diffrent lengths on the outside T, and the one im useing worked best for me . It's the one i could get my return pump to match to best. It keeps a constent water level in my sump,and i never lost siphon.


http://forums.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=288154

http://forums.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=297623

[WildFoxMedia]

It looks like the original plans for all of those show the U tube inside the tank below the T - However, all of the new plans show the U tube inside the tank having a shorter tube coming over the top which makes it higher then the T.

In any case, I set mine up similar to yours where the inside U is above the T and in the limited testing I did, it works fine.

[Muddy35]

It may be that the "U" inside the tank may not matter where it is. Heres my thoughts on this however.
If the U inside the tank is higher than the T outside the tank then you run the risk of the siphon pulling all the water out of the tube when the aquarium water no longer flows into it. The U needs to be lower than the outside T to create a point where the water level inside the tubes are lower than the T so as not to siphon out all the water and create a breaking point where the water level will sit, and NOT siphon out..
Hopefully I have not confused anyone.
There are alot of different designs out there, some being posted by ppl that have not fully tested their versions and are in for sad disappointment the day it fails. Some versions will work 50/50 ad some will work 99%. There are always factors involved with everything that can make something fail and if we limit those factors by utilizing the best design then we are less apt to be disappointed later.

The original design came off a South African web site yrs ago. The design was tested through and through and in all cases the intake HAD to be ower the the T to work correctly. The "U" with the extension to the surface is just an extension of the original design. If we take that out of the equation then in every instance where the "U" or intake was above the T it lead to failure at some point.

Just my FYI.. As with everything in this hobby theres always room for improvement. But there are certain things that due to physics just arent going to change.

[Muddy35]

Kenjr- I looked through the links and I see what your pointing out as far as the U in the tank being higher, I also noticed all the other changes needed to make that version work and stil see a large number of posts where the siphon is breaking after a power loss.. Just my 2 cents.. The more we complicate something the more likely it is to fail.
It looks like the majority of the mods came from trying to make the setup quieter. While I agree its not the quietest my simple fix to the noise was to set a Smaller 1/2" t right on top of the intake lettin water fall through it and creating less space in the center of the overflow that can pull air through it.

I do agree with the other posts. ITs a DIY and open to modify anyway you want. But why complicate it if its less efficent?

[WildFoxMedia]

Muddy35 - Thank you for the post. In the limited testing I did on a version I built I had no issue with noise aside from the noise of the water falling from 3' into a 5 gallon bucket.

I will modify my design to make the internal U tube lower then the T.

Something else that seems slightly strange to me is the placement of the extension tube coming off of the internal U tube. That top of the extension should be roughly where you would want the water level to be if there was a power outage correct?

[Muddy35]

correct. Keep in mind that anything else lower than that.. ie a return line.. will also siphon down to its level.

[WildFoxMedia]

I didnt even think about that - The return line will back siphon?

Quick Edit: So pretty much, internal U tube as low as you can go, or at least low enough for the T to be above it - Then the extension tube off the internal U tube to where you want the water level. If I were to put a strainer over the extension tube, would I put it so the very tip/end of the strainer would be where the water level is, or the "bottom" of the strainer where it connects to the PVC extension tube?

[Muddy35]

Yes the return will siphon back into the sump if its below the water line and the intake to the overflow. If it is below the intake it will continue to siphon until theres a break in the siphon. Some ppl actually drill a small hole in the return line just below the water line to break siphon in the event of a pwr loss.
Yes set the T above the U. I try to put 2inches between the bottom of the T and the top of the U. You can also raise the T on the outside of the tank as well but the higher you raise it the slower the flow through the pipes and the more likely air will accumulate inside the pipe and cause a siphon loss. I would set it so the U sets as close to the bottom of the tank as possible and the T sits 2" higher on the outside of the tank.
As far as the strainer- the top of the strainer needs to be set where you want the water level in your tank.

[kenjr]

Kenjr- I looked through the links and I see what your pointing out as far as the U in the tank being higher, I also noticed all the other changes needed to make that version work and stil see a large number of posts where the siphon is breaking after a power loss.. Just my 2 cents.. The more we complicate something the more likely it is to fail.
It looks like the majority of the mods came from trying to make the setup quieter. While I agree its not the quietest my simple fix to the noise was to set a Smaller 1/2" t right on top of the intake lettin water fall through it and creating less space in the center of the overflow that can pull air through it.

I do agree with the other posts. ITs a DIY and open to modify anyway you want. But why complicate it if its less efficent?

muddy35 - As I am totally new at this, I would have to agree with you. the main reason for me trying the different mods was to make the overflow more quiet. and I was successful . 100% quiet . pure flow into my sump and no air is being sucked into(through) my overflow , I don’t even hear the water flow through the pipes. In my sump, the inlet line is submerged(no splashing sound) .Its everything I expected from this project. if it does loose siphon , and I hope it never does, I took measures to protect myself from a flood. My sump will accommodate all the water from my display to the level that my strainers at . and the return section of my sump can empty into my display without overflowing. I don’t want to give anyone bad advice ,that is why I posted the original plans and links I followed. and let them know what experiences I had so far. I do and always will listen to any advice given because I don’t have enough experience of my own. this is how I (we ) learn. and im thankful for it .

Ken

[Muddy35]

Ken,
No prob thats what this hobby is about.
I would love to see pics of your setup as I wanna try what you've done and test the heck out of it.

[Killeriguana]

I got mine working. thanks for the help everyone. it was a lot easier than i was expecting it to be!

102883

102884

[kenjr]

Ken,
I would love to see pics of your setup as I wanna try what you've done and test the heck out of it.

Sorry it took me so long to reply but i had to get my camera back , it was on loan.

My inside U is even with the exit of the T fitting outside. ( even though its not recomended, i didnt know any better when i built this )
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/kenjr01/04.jpg

I cut the overflow so when it drained ,power failure/water change, it will fill my sump without overflowing.

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/kenjr01/DSC03745.jpg

this is the strainer i made to completely slip over my 1" overflow pipe . the top of the 1" overflow pipe is even with the reducer inside. i have a coupling on that with another pcs of pipe between the coupling and cap to hold them together


http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/kenjr01/DSC03744-1.jpg

i wanted to be sure nothing could get into the overflow and clog it up. so, i drilled holes everywhere even in the top . this part stays out of the water and it has reduced the vortex and air from water draining down into the overflow


http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/kenjr01/DSC03755.jpg

i could still here the water sounding like it was falling down the pipe . i was after something extremely quiet. so i drilled a 3/16th hole in the end cap and stuck a pcs of air hose in it . but i keep getting air and gurgling noise in the breather pipe. i tide a knot in the air line and adjusted the tightness. i noticed an increase in water flow,and less noise. so i bought a bunch of end caps, drilled a hole in each one of them ,from the smallest bit my drill would hold ,to the 3/16.that i started with. the water flow varied with each one, but could still hear the gurgle in the breather pipe. i had a couple end caps left so i put a non drilled cap on lightly just enough to hold it there . all the noise left. the water flow increased and held steady and i wasn't getting anymore vortex sucking air into my drain.


http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/kenjr01/DSC03753.jpg

to make it more quiet i added a 90 and a extension pipe to the drain so it was under water . when running ,you don't even know its working because you cant hear it, and there are no air bubbles from the overflow into the sump, its pulling pure water .. note: when putting the ext pipe on in the sump i placed my hand ever the outlet and it blew the end cap off , some back pressure i guess. don't know if that means anything but it played hell getting it from behind my tank .


http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/kenjr01/DSC03749-1.jpg

as for my experience, i am very new at this. and i may have just got lucky . or there may be a failure in my future ( i hope not) but everything I've done ,putting rocks in ,re aquascaping, removed some sand cleaning the glass, even made the water slosh back and forth causing water level to change rapidly. it has never lost siphon and it has started every time, even for these pics during my water change. Muddy35, Good luck with the testing . Pleas let me know your findings with all the test. Ken

[Killeriguana]

well i am screwed. Got it working great and siliconed plexi glass dividers in my 20 gallon sump and it did great untill the power went out while i was gone, the plexiglass divider busted, and when the power came back on, it returned the entire sump to the dt and flooded the room. Mom says no more sump although it could be fixed. She doesnt understand the concept. all she knows is that there is a mess and she is mad

[kenjr]

I'm real sorry to hear that. hope your mom doesn't stay upset wit you to long. i know i set my tank and sump up to empty into each other without over flowing, but i never though about a baffle letting go and sending all that extra water to the tank if i lost siphon.

[Killeriguana]

yeah me either. looks like i did all of this for nothing as she will never let me try again. she even made me tear down both of my tanks. the fish are in plastic containers and spent like 6 hours cleaning and listening to my mom yell at me

[Muddy35]

Killer- Can you post pics of your drain set up? Would like to see how you set yours up, Might be able to help with why it failed.

Ken- Looks good - Still very leary about that U above the T though.. As I have time I'll give it a battery of tests .. In theory and practice though if you draw a straight line across the drain outlet on the T anything above that point has the potential to drain out and break siphon in the event of a pwr loss.
Glad it's working for you. Looks good. Tank looks really good as well.

[Killeriguana]

muddy- it was set up fine but the only problem was that the plexi glass divider i siliconed busted! so the return pump drained the entire sump into the display tank. and i cant post a pic bc my mom made me tear down the tanks and will not let me set them back up. fish are in plastic containers

[emmanuel]

Anyone still using this type of overflow ?
Killer it doesn't make sense even though the divider busted if the siphon didnt break then the water should have kept flowing out of your tank instead of flooding IMO
I am wondering about this overflow system cause I broke down my 10 year old reef 125 gallon tank but 3 months later jumped back in with a red sea max 130 and want to add a sump

[oyster45]

I've struggled with making mine quiet and balanced May give this a shot.

[emmanuel]

Anyone still using this type of overflow ?
Killer it doesn't make sense even though the divider busted if the siphon didnt break then the water should have kept flowing out of your tank instead of flooding IMO
I am wondering about this overflow system cause I broke down my 10 year old reef 125 gallon tank but 3 months later jumped back in with a red sea max 130 and want to add a sump

[redzone]

i had one when i started a couple of years ago. if i remember right if you plugged the breather pipe on the outside it would make the drain into a full siphon. so when your power goes out the drain will siphon all the water out of the U bends and siphon will be lost. you also want your U bend on the inside of tank to be the same or lower than the outside T. so when power goes out the water will still sit in the U bends. any water over the T will be drained out. i couldnt get mine quiet enough so gave up on it. gl

[saltycoastie]

mines like that but it dont point up and is inside a weir

[emmanuel]

how long has it been running and did it ever loose siphon?

[tastydog]

Here is mine... I have been using it for over a year...

http://truzul.com/images/overflow/double.U.overflow.using-.1.25.inch.pvc.jpg

http://truzul.com/images/tank/misc/o1.jpg

http://truzul.com/images/tank/misc/o2.jpg


The overflow is an "open siphon double U" design. The final piece that goes into the tank is not shown in this picture. The missing piece attaches to the far left side and has two 90 degree pieces that bring the unit back up to complete the second U shape. The surface skimming cup is positioned at the top of the resultant U. The short piece on the far left is not the final size. Its length is the same as the first U. (So there are actually 3 U's, two right side up and the one in the middle facing upside down.) Where you place the T on the right makes a difference in how fast or slow the water will drain. Also, it cannot be too high and the lower it is placed the deeper you need the U's. When the water level in the tank drops below the top of the overflow, the water will drain to the bottom of the U in the tank equal to the bottom of the T. When the water level rises, the siphon will start again. To start this siphon you need to cap the standpipe and once it starts quickly remove the cap so that you don't drain the water below the cup and break the siphon. Also, you will want to build a baffle for it and it will be very quite. The slower the drain, the quiter. So, if you want very quite higher flow, the pipe should be larger. I used a slip converter that opens to a little over 4" (found it at Lowe's). So the cup is over 4" in diameter and works great. I took some gutter guard and cut a circle for the bottom that I zip tied to a very tight fitting cylinder made of the same stuff. It is a one piece screen that slides out with some effort for cleaning and I have not had anything ever get stuck in it. Certainly nothing could get caught in the pipe to block it. (knocking on wood now.) Let me know if there are any questions.

[emmanuel]

Ive been running it for 2 weeks now tested it many times and shut down pump everyday when feeding it hasnt failed yet . I did take some precautions like :
I made sure the pump chamber of the sump only holds enough water so if the siphon stopped the chamber would empty before the tank overflows.
I also bought a aqualifter pump to install on a timer for an hour a day if I go away just to keep any air bubbles from forming in the overflow (I do go away for a month at a time )

[reefernutt]

179164i just built and tested one. its a dual overflow in case one clogs. . I tested it and it works perfect. stops and restarts everytime!! by the way i did mine outta 3/4in pvc and i added a ball valve to controll flow rate and also a pvc check valve on my return line so water couldnt suck back throught the return

[reefernutt]

sorry that picture is of it not finished . . sorry will have to upload a new one. . .but it works and save me a couple hundred!!

[emmanuel]

5 months now and it failed . air built up and broke siphon I hooked up a aqua lifter pump so it wont happen again

[tastydog]

That stinks. The U inside the tank may not have been deep enough into the water allow air to make it through. I have had mine setup for just over two years and it has never failed. I have even gone through cleaning processes where the tank was half empty for a few hours and it was completely exposed, filled up the tank and it started right up. (I looked at my pic from july 2010 and I had the over flow then. I didn't realize how long I had it setup!)