Thinking about a 40 breeder

[footballdude2k3]

Hello,

I have been looking around and reading as much as possible, I was not sure what tank I wanted to be my first until I went to the store today. I saw a 40 breeder and it was love at first sight. So I am now leaning towards this, I have been looking online and I would like it to be a FOWLR at first possibly moving to some softies later. My problem is all the different types of equipment are putting me into overload. I have no idea what to get for lights and pumps. I would like to try to do this without a sump for now but that could change as I do not really know why you would or would not have one aside from more water and not having the equipment in the DT. Also for heaters I would like 2 smaller ones instead of one bigger one in case anything breaks.

I do not want to run a skimmer as I have read that they remove a lot and this includes some nutrients. When I was at the store today they had some base rock, but it was "lava rock" would this be acceptable? Should I try to find somewhere else?

For fish, I want to have 2 false percs that will go in last, a pistol and YWG, what else can i fit in it? Thanks everybody!

[footballdude2k3]

For powerheads I am thinking 2 Hydor Koralia 1's for 800gph

[dwd5813]

i'd consider using some dry base rock from bulk reef supply. i used a 25lb box of that in my 40B and it quickly becomes very nice rock. that will save you some bucks and allow you to splurge a little on some high quality lr from other sources (lfs, online, local club, etc.).

a nice 4x39w t5 system will handle just about anything in that tank. i went with the tek from sunlight supply. it's a good light, but i might consider spending a little more on something with active cooling, although i can't say i noticed heat issues. i don't have a par meter to measure exactly, though.

skimmers are a touchy topic sometimes, and you'll find people who will swear you can't run without one, but there are successful tanks without them. this does present some issues, in that you need to either keep up with water changes or otherwise monitor nutrient levels and create a plan for export. without a sump/fuge, that can mean either careful planning for inhabitants and limiting your bioload or doing the extra work of consistently changing water pretty often. some folks have even had success with incorporating macroalgaes in the display. i like this idea when planned carefully.

flow requirements are dictated by inhabitants. corals, basically. softies and 'lps' will get by and/or prefer lower flow rates. 'sps' corals will thrive in high flow rates. i'm not familiar with koralias but i can say from experience that tunze nanostreams are excellent pumps. i had two originally and added a third on my 40B, and it was a lot of movement but well spread out. you can accomplish the same thing with properly sized koralias, i'm sure.

adding the clowns last is a good plan, i think. they are damsels after all, and will be somewhat aggressive/territorial. cardinals are docile fish that i like. i had a starry blenny in my tank and it was the coolest fish i've ever had.

so, i don't know if i actually helped out at all, but it suffices to say that while there is a lot to think about, if you take your time and break it down into sections you'll end up right where you need to be. i would advise you to think of the livestock first, then choose the equipment you need to create the best environment you can for them. good luck.

[footballdude2k3]

dwd, thank you! i think that it does help because i think that just talking things over and getting ideas running is the best thing. I will definately have a lot of planning, i do not want any snap decisions with this. As your sig says, baby steps :)

[dwd5813]

:thumbsup:

good to hear you're not intimidated by the slow approach.

[footballdude2k3]

just made my first ever tank purchase 35 lbs base rock :D

[dwd5813]

and so it begins... mUAHAAAHAHAAA :lol:

[footballdude2k3]

anybody else?

[3djedi]

good choice on the 40 breeder. I think that tank has a really nice footprint and you can setup a nice display with it. I also think you should rethink your decision not to use a skimmer. Skimmers might remove some nutrients but it also removes alot of polluntants and I really think it will make your life easier. Congrats on your tank choice and your rock purchase!

[footballdude2k3]

I would like to start without a skimmer and if I feel that I would be better off with one then I would not have a problem buying one. I found an LFS that has a 40b for 89 so i will be picking that up sometime soon.

[greech]

You're going to love the 40B. Great footprint and height. Here is my sumpless skimmerless 40B. I only have 2 fish (Potters Angle and a B/W Ocellaris). If I decide to add more fish I may add a HOB skimmer like a reef octopus.

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww93/greech/100_3421.jpg

Oh there is also a 40 Breeder thread you might find interesting. Some very nice tanks to look at:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1755500

[greech]

I double posted somehow. Sorry.

[sdc19982002]

Here's my 40 set-up last weekend. Its sumpless.http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac97/sdc19982002/Picture068.jpg

[footballdude2k3]

greech i love the tank, what kind of powerheads do you have in there?

sdc i love your rockwork. what fish are you planning on keeping?

also what lights are you both using?

[greech]

The PHs are just Koralia 2's with the fish guards attached because I have a blue dot sea hare that I don't want to get shredded.

I am running a 4x39W Current Sundial T5 fixture with a UV Superactinic, 2 x ATI Blue+ and an ATI Aquablue special. I believe that pic is the UV and 1 Blue + running. Glad you like it.

sdc- are you running a AquaC Remora skimmer? If so how do you like it? Is it louder that your HOB filter? The great thing about my tank is that it's dead silent and I sort of hate to give that up.

[sdc19982002]

yes on aqua c. Not loud at all, it's actually doing a decent job right now. Wasnt too sure about it because of the bad reviews but it should be fine. Only running hang on filter through the cycle, it's been running for 6 months on my reef in anticipation of this tank. Lights are nova extreme pro 6 bulb t-5. Tank will house 2 dwarf lions.

[greech]

Thanks for the info. Lions will look great in your setup!

[sdc19982002]

Thanks

[scottwhitson]

I have a 40B and it is a great tank size but wish I would have bought the 50B instead. I like deeper tanks and a couple more inches would make a difference. I don't think I will ever run a tank without a sump again. Way too many benefits. A great place for heaters, thermometers, any probes that you might add, macro algae, extra rock for bio-filtration, better choice of affordable in-sump skimmers if you choose to run one. I also wouldn't run a tank skimmerless if you have ever seen and smelled the crud that a GOOD skimmer pulls out of your tank.

[ferockfish]

I had a 40B that I wanted to replace because of scratches. My new tank is a 50g which has the same footprint as the 40B, but is a few inches taller. I like having the extra height of the 50g.

BTW the difference between the 40B and 50g is not 10 gallons since the 40B is more than 40 gallons. :hmm3:

[rkb]

I really think you'll fall in love with the 40B. As you grow in the hobby and want to expand into softies to LPS and finally SPS the forty breeder because of it's surface area and shallow depth makes a great canvas for any reef system.

My take on your decision to go skimmerless- in your statement to not run one your rational is you do not wish to remove nutients from the water. While it is true that a skimmer will remove some of the good it does a great job of removing much of the bad. Protein skimmers remove disolved organic compounds, the removal of these compounds from the nitrogen cycle becomes a biologically limiting factor for micro algae. There are other methods of removing organics but skimming is a big gun.

This is how I think this will apply to a FOWLR system. Corals, clams macro algae all use nutients and as higher animals they are most effecient at absorbing nutients to support photosynthesis when nutients are very scarce. Microalgae on the other hand thrive when the nutient level is very high. In a fish only tank you will lots of nurient makers (the fish) and no nutrient users - coral or clams. So if not controlled the nutients, in the form of nitrates will begin to build up and feed the micro algae that will soon develop. Understanding that best way to control unwanted algae is to biologically limit it's growth. And as phosphate and nitrates are the fuel to the micro algae fire limiting these will naturally limit the growth or at least go along way in helping that issue.

For a FOWLR tank that is skimmerless I would limit nutients by a 20 percent water change weekly, and look very closely at the food I fed my fish and how often I fed. The most common problem is people feed their fish way too much. In my system I feed once
every two or three days and I will never feed flake or pellet food. Brine or mysid that is rinsed in RO water is my choice.

If I was setting the tank up my first choice would be to run a sump with a skimmer. By running an overflow into a sump you skim off the top layer of water out of the display tank. Organic compounds will accumulate at the surface creating a visible "slick". By skimming off this surface water into a sump you increase in the efficiancy of the protein skimmer in the sump. Plus if you do have corals, the removal of this slick will inhance the light penetration. My second choice would be to run a hang
on back filter/skimmer. These are not as effective but would be better than nothing. Regardless of direction you choose I would highly recommend running two Phosban 150s, one with carbon to assist in removing the disolved organics and the other with granular feric oxide, to absorb the phosphates. This system would cost under 120 dollars and would help out a lot in a system with a skimmer or without and will be of great help as you grow in the hobby toward keeping corals.

[Chiefsurfer]

Anybody concerned with the iron levels in the "lava rock"?

[footballdude2k3]

chief, to start off I have decided not to try that at all, i bought 35 lbs of base rock from the site dwd suggested yesterday and when i finally set up the tank i will get some fiji rock from my lfs.

rkb, what you have said has made me really rethink if not having a skimmer is the right thing to do. i will admit that part of why i did not want one was it is very expensive and people said it was not needed. i do not have a problem saving up and getting one as i would rather do whats right for the animals to make sure they are happy.

question about a skimmer, if i do decide to run one with a sump, would i be able to use the same skimmer for a 40 as i would for a 90 or bigger if/when i decide to get a bigger tank or would i need to get a new skimmer for a bigger tank because it would overpower the smaller system?

thanks everybody, you have all been great!

[rkb]

On my forty breeder with a twenty gallon sump I run the Vertex IN100 in sump skimmer. This does a great job and it is rated for a 100 gallon system. The Vertex skimmers offer a lot of skimmer for the price, an IN100 will set you back less than 200 bucks.

A quick note about skimmer ratings, they are a general guideline. The IN100 is rated for a 100 gallon system and I would imagine a moderately stocked system, so a 90g reef would be fine on this skimmer especially if paired with carbon and GFO.

[footballdude2k3]

sounds good i will look into that one, thanks rkb :)

[dwd5813]

yeah, if you get a skimmer you should go with something that is rated for a larger tank than what you have cause the ratings tend to be a little off and then you can always use the skimmer when (notice i say WHEN ;)) you upgrade down the line.

[footballdude2k3]

does anybody have any other choices for lighting? also can somebody please give some good thermometers and refractometers? Does anybody think that Koralia 1s would not be enough?

[rkb]

Oops double post.

[rkb]

Lighting- for your stated needs a four bulb T5 would be perfect.

Therm- I think the standard ones you get at the pet
shops are pretty crappy. I use a professional grade one from a photography store that is designed for color film developing. While not a certified pharmacy grade unit it is supper accurate and cost around twenty bucks.

Flow- for a FOWLR two or three K1s would be fine. I would lean toward more than less, this keeps waste suspended so it can be filtered off easier. As you move toward keeping inverts, they generally like more flow especially SPS. In my SPS dominant 40B I have a turnover rate of between 40 and 50 times per hour.

[greech]

I have two K2s in mine and wish I had little more. I realize this will be a FOWLR but you still want enough flow to help keep the junk on your rocks suspeneded so it can be filtered out by whatever method you end up using.

[OldNemo]

All good advice.

I would add that with the addition of the 2 dwarf lions, I would strongly suggest a skimmer especially given the foods needed by them and the waste created. I just think it will exceed what you can do in water changes.

Here is my recent build thread as well.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1803039

Also, the Bulk Reef guys are local here and sell a great product.

GL

[footballdude2k3]

I am not getting any lions, I do not have any desire for lions...not sure where you got that nemo, I will look at your build thread, thanks for the bulk reef info :)

[OldNemo]

I am not getting any lions, I do not have any desire for lions...not sure where you got that nemo, I will look at your build thread, thanks for the bulk reef info :)


My apologies. I guess I read the thread quickly and equated another poster's dwarf lions to yours.

Like I mentioned, skimmerless can be done but requires consistent water changes.

IMO - water changes and skimmer are best.

[ryanlala]

I love the 40 gallon breeder! I ended up taking mine down and using it as my sump for my 120g. As stated above a 4 bulb t5 setup is perfect for the tank! As far as running a sump and skimmer i strongly recomend using both if at all possiable. The reason for the sump is more water volume(which helps out with tank stability), and gives you more options in the future. A skimmer does draw out some of the good nutrients, but it removes far more of the other "junk" in the tank. Having a skimmer will allow you to feed the tank more without having nitrate or phosphate issues. When i setup a new tank i always think long term, such as what will i want out of this tank down the road. If you are undecided on a sump or skimmer i sould go ahead and set the tank up that way, and plan for an in sump skimmer. i have not had any luck with the hang on back skimmers, they cost a couple hundred dollers and work so so. For $300 you can get a quality in sump skimmer that you know will work well and have been proven. As far as in tank flow goes, koralias are good and cheap but a vortec mp 10-20 would get the job done better and is only a few hundred dollars. I will be tagging along and looking forward to your build!

[malawinovice]

I would also recommend a section in the 20 gallon sump for going chaeto.

A Lowes clip on light with a bright lights 75 watt CFL bulb at 6500k and you have the best in a small package for algae control.

[footballdude2k3]

ok can you please explain how i would layout a sump? i am sorry to sound newbish....but i am :) i know that they can be setup with different sections, but why have different sections? what exactly is cheato? thanks everybody!

[ryanlala]

The reason you set up different sections in the sump is to keep a constant water level in a given area of the sump. Example, this size is a little big for your tank, but i will give you an idea of how it works. Lets say your sump is 36" long and 18" wide and 18" tall. If you are using an in sump skimmer lets say your water level needs to remain a constant 10" on the skimmer side. You can either build the baffle 10" or build it higher and have your skimmer sit on a stand to make up the difference in height. I usually have my baffles run the whole width of the sump, in this case 18". Your overflow from the tank then drops into the skimmer section and once it reaches the height of the baffle it will overflow into the next section. If you are build a fuge the second section would be a good place to put it. The third section is where i would put my heater(s) and pump. The pump pushes the water up to the tank, the overflow drains to the skimmer section, section 1 waterfalls to section 2(fuge), then overflows into the pump area. If you are using an auto topoff system the third section is where you would put your sensor, as it is the only section that will not remain constant in the sump. The one thing to remember is you only want about 6-10 times turn over an hour through your sump, anything more than that you could have issues with overflow in a power outage.

[solitude127]

For Rock.... here's another vote for BulkReefSupply dry rock. It's fairly inexpensive compared to live rock. The only thing is that it'll take a little more patients when cycling the tank. I just used about 70lbs in my 150 build and that stuff is great. Good luck if you decide to go with it and remember to take your time.
Patients is a true virtue in this hobby.

[footballdude2k3]

question, would a 20 long make a good sump for this? or should it be a different 20?

[ryanlala]

are you planning on running a skimmer? If so you would need to have an idea of what water level is recommended for that skimmer to make sure that 12" is would be enough depth, and you would have enough water volume in the sump when the pump shuts off and the overflow drains and stops the siphon. A 29g would fit the bill pretty nice, youd have 18" of height to play with, and you wouldnt have to worry about a spill in the event your pump stops. Not to mention they are like $30 at petco or petsmart :)

[footballdude2k3]

I am planning on running a skimmer, what do you guys run as a skimmer? What does everybody suggest?

[ryanlala]

Oh man, the can of worms just got opened! haha :) This is one of the largest debates on RC, mainly for one reason. The people who went out and spent $3000 on their bubble king need to justify that it was worth the money. On the other hand people who wanted to save some money and bought a $50 cheap skimmer want to rant about how bad it sucks. I wont suggest a brand to use, but i will suggest you look on the sponsor page and give a few of them a call and tell them what you are planning and they will be more than happy to help you, even if you dont buy one when you talk to them. Jeremy with premium aquatics is super helpful, Greg with reef geek is great as well. There are several others on the list but these are the two i have delt with the most and can vouch for.

[footballdude2k3]

ok, I do not want a crap skimmer, I do not see myself sticking with a 40b forever, but for now it is what I will have space and money for. I would like a skimmer that I would be able to use in a bigger tank, say 120-150, but would that be overkill for a 40 tank or can you turn it down?

[ryanlala]

I am not a skimmer expert, but i dont think it would be a problem running a skimmer in the 120-150 gallon range on the 40 gallon breeder. You might have trouble dialing the skimmer in because it will remove alot of crap at first, but then there wont be any left in the system to skim. So the skimmer will skim off and on. You really cant dial the skimmer down so to speak because they work best at a given water level. However you can ajust how wet or dry the skimmate is, so you will have a little play on how much junk you pull out of the water system. With that being said i always like to build my tanks and use products that best suit the size of the tank. It is going to be hard to find a skimmer that will work well on a 40g with a 20-29g sump(usually sumps are run half full) so your looking for a skimmer in 50-60g range and that will also work well in tank in the 120-150g plus sump 40-60g (140-180g). What i think would be best is to buy a skimmer for the water volume you are building now, and when you decide to step up in tank size you can aways sell the one for the 40g or keep it and use it as a qt tank, or frag tank. In my experience you never get rid of a tank and system unless you are getting out of the hobby. haha

[Chiefsurfer]

Well, if you go with a 40B DT, and 29G sump, you are looking at toal volume of 69 gallons. If you are to upgrade to something like a 90, I would assume you would use the 40B as your sump, giving you 130 for your total volume. Going with something rated for 150 would not be too much overkill, and a fairly small footprint, and still get the job done with the upgrade. IF you decide to go with a 120, with maybe the 40 sump, it likely will not keep up.

As this is your first tank, and I am sure you do not want to spend $3000 on a Bubble King, I will just give a few that I have HEARD are decent at a good price. ReefOctopus makes some nice skimmers. Vertex and in-tech both get good reviews for good prices. That's about all I know for decent in-sump skimmers for a decent price.

[rkb]

ok, I do not want a crap skimmer, I do not see myself sticking with a 40b forever, but for now it is what I will have space and money for. I would like a skimmer that I would be able to use in a bigger tank, say 120-150, but would that be overkill for a 40 tank or can you turn it down?

There really is no way to turn a skimmer up or down to fit a particular tank size. Super large skimmers on a small system may or may not work effectively because of the ratio of skimmer volume, air intake etc. vs the amount of skimmable organic waste. My thinking is that if not enough waste exists to create a foam tower in an oversized skimmer than the waste will not be effectively removed until the waste builds up to that threshold level. This is an area of skimmer performance that I would love to hear fellow reefers actual experience with.

Now, that said I do believe in a moderate level of oversizing a skimmer. I have done this when I had a model rated for a 80 gallon system on my 35g system and now on my 60 gallon system I run a skimmer rated for a 100 gallon system and it works great. Jumping the next level of skimmers in my preferred brand would be a skimmer rated for a 180g system. This skimmer diameter is 8 inches vs my current skimmer which is 6.

Another thing to consider is the amount of power used and what the amps are of the outlets you are running your reef off of. When you start adding up the amps of all the equipment if not careful you can easily overload a circuit.

So, to sum up my theory on this matter- run a skimmer that is slightly larger but until someone gives a sound report of running a super large skimmer on a smaller system I would not want to invest the money. This MAY be an area where one size might fit many but not all.

As for a recommended skimmer for the 40 breeder- I have run two skimmers on mine, a Vertex IN80 and a Vertex IN100. My IN80 was my The skimmer I ran on my 29g and when I upgraded from my 29 to my 40 my intent to turn my 29 into a frag tank so the IN80 will go on it. I am now running a Vertex IN100 on my 40B with a 20g sump. In the Vertex skimmers the difference between the 80 and 100 don't seem much on paper. The pumps that drive them are identical, the 100 is actually a little shorter than the 80 but it is 6 inches in diameter vs 4 inches on the IN80. In operation though, the IN100 seems to clearly outperform the 80 and I would highly recommend the IN100 to anyone setting up a 40B, I guess that extra diameter really makes the difference.

Price wise is where the Vertex skimmers really shine- you can pick up a IN100 for about 180 bucks on Marine Depot or most other interweb retailers. Those super high end skimmer such as the cones and the like are often rated for much bigger systems and I'm sorry- but until I see some amazing evidence that just floors me I'm not spending 750+ bucks on a skimmer when my Vertex is as effective as it is.

Set up on these skimmers is a bit cryptic the first time you do it as the instructions are not illustrated. But myself and the scores of other Vertex owners on RC can help out. They run best when the water level is 6 to 8 inches deep and is very stable. This is the main reason many run baffles in a sump- to keep the skimmer's water level constant. I personally have a baffle-less sump but I am very diligent with top off water. However, before summer's heat arrives I will move to both a baffled sump and an ATO to ensure a constant water level.

[footballdude2k3]

hey guys, thanks again for all of the help rkb thank you for the suggestion on vertex, i will look into that one for sure, you guys have been amazingly helpful. Thank you!

for a heater I am looking at getting 2 of these, thoughts?
Aquarium Pharmaceuticals RENA SmartHeater 100 Watt

I think 2 because I have heard stories about people having them break, and saying get 2 smaller ones.

[ryanlala]

Yes get 2 smaller heaters rater than one large heater. It is just another form of redundancy. It has happend more than a few time that a heater has gotten stuck in the on position and nuked a tank. As far as brand i have no information/experience for you the Aquarium pharmaceutical brand. I use jager heaters because that what my lfs sells. Two 100watt heaters sound like a good plan. It might be a tad bit more that what you need but it is not overkill, and wont cook your tank if one of them gets stuck.

[footballdude2k3]

should i get a 50 and a 100 instead?

[ryanlala]

I would get the same watt heaters just because i dont like using different equipment. Other people do it all the time, i just prefer not to. Another thing i didnt mention in the post was excess heat in the tank from pumps, powerheads, skimmer, ect. Most people fail to realise that every watt of power you have in the tank converts directly to heat. Say you are running a 100watt pump at is 90% efficent, 10watts of power goes directly to heat, the other 90watts converts to heat through friction of the water movment. So with that being said it is very important to pick efficient pumps that draw less watts which = less heat in the water to start with. Would 2 50watt heaters get the job done? Yes, but if something happens and the temp in the house drops to 60, they wont be able to keep up. I would just get 2 100watts and call it a day. Dont forget to set the heaters according to a real thermometer not the dial that they come with, those can be off 5 degreese. In my 120g i think im running 2 200watts altough they might be 250. I have them come on at 74 and the susally stay on till 75-76.

[Chiefsurfer]

all depends on ambient temp. I have a 20, and run 2 75 watt heaters. I have a special rental situation, where my landlord has been a long-time family friend, so he sometimes comes in my apartment and checks things out. I have one of those oldschool thermostats that works just like a $5 timer from HD with the pins for daytime and night-time adjustment. I set it to 60 for when I am sleeping, and 70 when I am home and awake. The apartment is old, and it will cool down to about 60 within an hour or two, so on weekends I have to turn both adjusting "arms" up to 70. Should I forget to return the cold one to 60 sunday night or monday morning, my landlord inevitably just turns both all the way down to like 55, so it can get cold in my apartment. Generally for a 20, it reccomends half of the wattage I have, but considering the temp differential, I feel it is a necessity. If your house goes a constant 68-72 degrees all the time, then you can go with much lower wattage, but if it swings like mine, you want more.

I would think you would be fine with 2 100's. IF your house is always warm, you could cut that to 75's, or 1 50 and 1-100. If you do go 2 different routes, I would set the larger heater to the lower temp. This would mean the smaller would be the one doing 99% of the work, and the 100 doesn't come on much at all. From how I understand relays and solenoids, they fail from the # of "connections" they make, meaning the 50 would fail before the 100, and if the 50 fails in the "on" position, it would have MUCH less of a chance of baking the tank.

PS, no personal experience, but have heard phenominal things about the RENA heaters.

[rkb]

hey guys, thanks again for all of the help rkb thank you for the suggestion on vertex, i will look into that one for sure, you guys have been amazingly helpful. Thank you!

for a heater I am looking at getting 2 of these, thoughts?
Aquarium Pharmaceuticals RENA SmartHeater 100 Watt

I think 2 because I have heard stories about people having them break, and saying get 2 smaller ones.

Glad to be of some help- The two heater idea is a good one and this is my setup from lights to pumps- the whole nine yards. My system is a SPS dominant tank with several clams. So my needs will be dramatically different in terms of lighting, circulation and dosing from yours but the rest is pretty much the same.

Tank- All Glass 40B

CPR Aquatics CS90 overflow. Since my tank was not predrilled and I did not want to mess with that I purchased the CPR overflow. These use a built in syphon rather than the U tubes. They are design to operate using a Tom Aquatics lifter pump to continuously remove any air from the syphon. A predrilled tank would be better, but in absence of that these are very nice.

Sump- 20H- right now it is baffle-less but I will add a baffle for the skimmer and a JBJ ATO soon. I don't run a fuge, instead I run media reactors.

Return Pumps- Mag5 and a Rio1100. I started with just the Mag5 but when I plumbed my return line through my chiller the extra amount of piping and the twists and turns through the chiller dramatically reduced my flow. Also the have a backup in the case of a pump failure I add the Rio.

Skimmer- Vertex IN100

Heaters- 2 Marineland 150w heaters located in the sump. The two heaters are located next to each other in an egg crate stand built to raise my skimmer to the optimum water depth. I run my heaters using the thermostat in my ReefKeeper Lite controller. The Reefkeeper has a temp probe and in my system it is located in the display tank. The way the ReefKeeper works is it simply turns power on to each of it's outlets when specific conditions are met. And as each outlet is programmable I have two of the outlets set to "turn on" when the tank temp goes below 77.9 degrees. The heater's own thermostats are set at a much higher temp so that their default position is "on". This way when the ReefKeeper's temp probe detects a lower temp and the controller sends power to the outlet the heater will always turn on. As soon as the probe senses the rise in temp to it's preset level power is cut to the heaters and they are dead. By using a ReefKeeper Controller to control the heaters I have a much more stable temp than is possible with nearly any thermostat that is built into a heater.

Media reactors- Two Phosban 150s ran off a single Rio800 pump. By using ball valves I control the flow to a gentle pace. In one reactor I run BRS ROX carbon and the other has GFO. The carbon gets changes every two weeks (6 TBS) and the GFO gets changed once a month (60 grams).

Circulation- Two Koralia 1s, one Koralia Nano, one Vortex MP10 and the flow from the return pumps. This gives me a turnover rate of about 2000gph.

Lighting- 2 X 150w 14K Phoenix Metal Halides, 4 X 39w T5s- UVL Super Actinic, 454, 75/25 and a Aquasun.

Top off- 10 gallon tank with RO/DI water.

RO/DI unit- Kent Marine Hi-S into 2 X 44g Brute trash cans- one for saltwater, the other is freshwater. The saltwater tank is circulated and heated to the same temp as the reef.

Controller- ReefKeeper Lite- best 99 dollars I have spent. It runs my lights and heaters.

Chiller- Lots of light- lots of heat- need chiller. My is a JBJ Arctica 1/10th HP unit.

Test kits- Salivert, Red Sea, API.

Refractometer- Basic model sold at Marine Depot but calibrated using 53.0mS calibration fluid.

Dosing- ESV B Ionic two part 30ml per day.

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu299/rkb-exp/photo-99.jpg

Temp 78.2
PH- 8.3
Ca- 440
dKH- 8.5
Mg- 1450
Specific Gravity- 1.026

Nitrate- 0
Nitrite- 0
Ammonia-0
Phosphate- 0

[sdc19982002]

Why not buy 1-200watt and a controller. I use a ranco controller on my reef and the reefkeeper light on my 40. It gives you the saftey factor.

[ryanlala]

That is a good way to do it, but a dual stage controller wired up and ready to go is $120 plus the cost of the heater. A reefkeeper light for $100 bucks would do the same thing and also act as a timer for the light.

[sdc19982002]

The reefkeeper lite is only$99.00 and will control your lights and one other outlet.

[ryanlala]

The rkl will control 4 outlets right out of the box for 99 bucks. I have my lights on it(2 plugs) and 4 powerheads(2 plugs). I dont worry about my heat, i have a fan that is on the same chord as my lights. haha I will be picking up a rke in the next month or two so all my wires can be plugged into the "little black box" :)

[footballdude2k3]

i ordered my baserock on saturday, it shipped yesterday, got here today! have it soaking right now so i can scrub it, gonna get a couple other things next weekend. i hope to be able to set something up by next month

[rkb]

Cool, setting up is a fun time- thinking of all the possibilities. How's Wisconsin? I have spent countless hours fly fishing on various streams in SW Wisconsin such as the West Fork of the Kickapoo and Spring Coulee. And I have landed a couple notable fish out of the Root River- a rather large Steelhead and a huge Chinook Salmon.

[footballdude2k3]

eh wisconsin is cold, i hate the cold, 15 more months and i am out, moving to either vegas or arizona. fishing is the one good thing around here, although i have never been fly fishing. :)

[rkb]

That is the bad part indeed, I hate the cold as well. Right now I'm in SW Missouri but I'm doing everything I can to relocate to Northern California.

[footballdude2k3]

why norcal?

[rkb]

why norcal?

It is a mix of climate and geography in a location with a job opportunity in my career. There are other places out west that I like, but for what I do, there is not an opportunity for me. I am an air traffic controller and there is a large facility that I would want to work in located in Sacramento.

[ryanlala]

ATC? Thats a pretty stressful job, especially when you have me on the other end of the wire! lol! Did you hear about the kid at JFK?

[footballdude2k3]

good luck with that job! I love me some mountains and that area isnt exactly flat so it would be nice to see :)

[rkb]

ATC? Thats a pretty stressful job, especially when you have me on the other end of the wire! lol! Did you hear about the kid at JFK?

Yeah, saw it this morning- pretty stupid. I often amazed at the fact the some of "us" think that nobody outside of the pilots are listening to what we do. Another thing that shocked me was that the union disavowed the controller, in the twenty years that I have been in the profession it is my experience that in the union's eyes the controller can do no wrong, this is a refreshing change.

What are you driving?

[rkb]

good luck with that job! I love me some mountains and that area isnt exactly flat so it would be nice to see :)

Thanks, I'm hopeful. Sierra Nevadas to the east and coastal range to the west and from what I understand a vibrant reefing community. I believe last month's TOM is from the Sac area.

[ryanlala]

We have a king air b-200 with all the blackhawk mods and the pt6a-61 engines.

[rkb]

We have a king air b-200 with all the blackhawk mods and the pt6a-61 engines.

Nice, I've always liked working King Airs in the terminal areas- they can go fast or slow on final. Not familiar with the Blackhawk mods- does that give the 200 the same or more power than a 300 or 350? From my point of view the PT6 engines are great stuff and they don't make that wine of the Garretts that are hung on the MU2s or Conquests.

[ryanlala]

Well the come with 650 shaft hourse power at sea level and drop off at crusing altitude. The GTO conversion put them at 850 hp each at altitude! :) Then of course it has the winglets, high speed exhaust stacks, and some other little add-ons. All of that is suppose to help intial climb and cruse speed. When we picked it up i siad the damn thing aught to be able to go verticle! haha. It wont do that, but it climbs out like a beast. We dont run it wide open, but at normal cruse we see a tas of 280-290. If we want to go fatster we pull the falcon 20 out of the hanger.

[rkb]

Well the come with 650 shaft hourse power at sea level and drop off at crusing altitude. The GTO conversion put them at 850 hp each at altitude! :) Then of course it has the winglets, high speed exhaust stacks, and some other little add-ons. All of that is suppose to help intial climb and cruse speed. When we picked it up i siad the damn thing aught to be able to go verticle! haha. It wont do that, but it climbs out like a beast. We dont run it wide open, but at normal cruse we see a tas of 280-290. If we want to go fatster we pull the falcon 20 out of the hanger.

very nice

[footballdude2k3]

I am jealous, I wanted to be a pilot, but i am colorblind :(

[ryanlala]

I dont wanna get this thread off topic, but last time i got my 3rd class medical i dont remember them doing a color chart. i just asked my buddy he got his renewed last week and said they did give him one. If you really want to fly just "wing it" if they go hand you a color chart. haha

[footballdude2k3]

hmmm, i might have to try this :) back on topic, i am going to the store this weekend to start aquascaping, what kind of putty do i need?

[footballdude2k3]

I am going to get a 20l to setup so i can have some sort of a fish tank until i move next year, this will also be my qt tank going forward. going to buy most of the stuff this weekend. While I have this, I will also make sure that I get everything done correctly for my 40 so when i move i can setup my 40 with a sump.

[rkb]

I am going to get a 20l to setup so i can have some sort of a fish tank until i move next year, this will also be my qt tank going forward. going to buy most of the stuff this weekend. While I have this, I will also make sure that I get everything done correctly for my 40 so when i move i can setup my 40 with a sump.

Excellent- glad to see you getting started. For attaching stuff to LR I use that underwater epoxy form Julian Sprung. I would love to know if I could get the same stuff at the hardware store for a cheaper price!

[footballdude2k3]

I cant wait, i went to the store in town, there is not much there now that i know what i am looking for, they do not even have water. :( oh well, going to milwaukee on friday after work i am gonna get some stuff then, going to order some stuff online this weekend and i will get a tank and a stand also.

[Chiefsurfer]

For "putty" you can use aquamend. They have it at HD. Not sure a price difference, but I have been using it to attach frags with no poor consiquences.

[footballdude2k3]

question, is an evo korelia 1 too much flow for a 20 gallon? its 750 gph

[ryanlala]

I had 2 of them in my biocube plus the 250gph return pump. I think you should be fine with that setup. The koralias come with a little nozzle that you can stick on the front and concentrate the flow. I do not recomend using them because the flow is too concentrated and livestock dosnt like that much direct flow.

[footballdude2k3]

alright sounds good :) i think i am going to get the tank/stand today, go see the prices of the powerheads in milwaukee tomorrow, worst case order that and a heater online and have it here next week.

[ryanlala]

Good Deal! Persionally i always prefer to buy all my hard good from the lfs. They might be $5-$10 more expensive, but thats what keeps their doors open. I would rather it cost me a few dollars more to buy from them and know they are gonna be around next week if i need something in a hurry. I have my favorite lfs in houston which is family owned and operated, they are simply the best people you could ever meet. Ive bought almost every aquarium related item i have from them, and they greatly appreciate that. When i decided i was going to setup my 120g David (the owners son who handles all the dry goods and saltwater related items) was the first one i went and talked to. I told him all the items that i wanted, and he ordered them without any deposit. The tank i wanted was a marineland 120g 4x2x2 with black silicone, he didnt have one in stock and his distributor didnt have one either. They called marineland had one built(took about 4 weeks) and only charged me $349. He acutally showed me the invoice he paid $320 for it! The vertex alpha 170 skimmer that sells $779 he sold to me for $599! Every time im in the store making a purchase he sell everything to me at just above cost. I have told him many times that i feel bad about this and dont mind paying more or retail for the items i buy. Everytime i mention that he says you are a loyal customer, and i know the value of loyal customers because they are so hard to find these days. He goes on to say i would rather make a small amount of money and have people return than make alot of money and only sell to you once. That being said, try and find a lfs who will work with you no matter the size system you are building, both of you will benefit from that kind of relationship.

[footballdude2k3]

wow, thats a great story, it would be amazing if i could find a store that was willing to work with you like that. i do not mean discounting everything, just that they are willing to call around everywhere and get you what you want/need.

[Chiefsurfer]

Ryan, he is not asking about the $40 Koralia 1. He is talking about the Koralia Evo-1. They are drastically different. This is Hydor's "new" koralia. I am not even sure if anyone has any on here yet. It is a Controllable unit, and upgradable/downgradable. Basically the housing for the K1-K4 are the same size, the ONLY thing that changes is the propeller. This can also be hooked up to a controller just like a vortech. Not sure of the price, but unless its less than $100, I would get the NORMAL style koralia. For that small of a tank, I think the flow is easily randomized and very wide-spread.

I have 2 K1's and a K-nano in my 20 gallon. Lot of flow. IF you are not having much SPS, I would like to see a little less flow then the 2 evo-1's, as I think they are much more flow than the original K-1's.

Looked it up, the Evo-1 is 750gph, the standard K-1 is 400gph. So a single evo K1 and maybe a original k-1 to keep water moving a bit in stagnant areas would be good.

[ryanlala]

Chief, i learn something new everyday. I didnt even know they had a new one out on the market. It sounds like a new gadget i might have to look into it.

[footballdude2k3]

i am not planning on any lps or sps, maybe some softies, but just some fish to start out with

[footballdude2k3]

sounds like i should just get a k1 to get 400 gph to start with

[username in use]

This can also be hooked up to a controller just like a vortech. Not sure of the price, but unless its less than $100, I would get the NORMAL style koralia. For that small of a tank, I think the flow is easily randomized and very wide-spread.
Looked it up, the Evo-1 is 750gph, the standard K-1 is 400gph. So a single evo K1 and maybe a original k-1 to keep water moving a bit in stagnant areas would be good.

It is not like a vortech. Thet are on/off only, a vortech can ramp up and ramp down the speed and vary it anywhere in between. They can be hooked up to a timer, not a speed controller.

[Chiefsurfer]

well I did say it wrong. I meant it could be controlled, did not mean it could ramp up and down like a vortech. It was definitely a bad example, where another on/off controllable would have been a better comparison.

[username in use]

Thats cool, I just thought you were mistaken as to what it could do and wanted to clear it up for anyone that might rush out and buy it thinking it would do what a vortech does.

[footballdude2k3]

hey username, what kind of fish is that for your avatar? i like it.

[username in use]

Steinitz Goby. I think thats how its spelled. He has gone to the great reef in the sky, but was a real personality in the tank when he was here.

[footballdude2k3]

sorry about the loss, i love the color on it.

[username in use]

Its Dorsal fin actually has some really cool flourescent patches of blue and green when the light hits it right. They come up on Divers Den every now and then paired with a pistol. Never got bigger than 2 1/2".

[footballdude2k3]

how long did you have it?

[username in use]

I had him for about a year and a half and lost him 3 or 4 weeks after a tank upgrade. He was the only loss of the upgrade, and his pistol buddy is still digging around under the rockwork making caves.

[footballdude2k3]

picked up a heater, getting the 20l, stand, powerhead, piece of liverock, and water tomorrow, about to take the plunge, could not be happier :)

[ryanlala]

You are about to start the most fun part of the tank! Getting everything together and figuring out what works, what dosnt, getting everything on the tank the way you want it is the most enjoyable part of the process for me. Whith that being said, what sort of lights are you thinking about running?

[footballdude2k3]

Well in the long run the tank that I am going to get tonight will be my QT tank once I move, but I do not want to wait 14 more months to be able to have a tank of any sort, so I will get this and deal with moving it. I am going to get the 4x39 TEK lights I believe and find a way to suspend them. I started my aquascaping last night I have some pictures, I am really looking forward to this, I cannot wait to be done with work so I can get it done :)

[ryanlala]

the tek lights are good lights and reasonably priced. I will make one suggestion though. Take a look at this. Look into the icecap slr t5 kit from reefgeek. This will give you about 30-40% more light than the tek fixture will. On a 4' bulb the teks run 54 watts, while the icecap runs at 78-80 watts. The best thing about the icecap is that you can use the ballast to run any bulbs (as long as they are the same length) and they overdrive the bulbs producing better par numbers.

[footballdude2k3]

I just ran to the store on my lunch, bought a stand, a 20 gallon long tank, sand, a powerhead, and i will go get water and some live rock to seed everything tonight. I am SO excited about this. Should I post the build in this thread or a new one?