QT Ammonia Problem. Help Needed.

[reidcrandall]

I posted this in the chemistry forum too... but I am a nervous SOB...

I've got a 29g quarantine up and running right now with a 4" regal angel and a 1" juvenile majestic angel. I got an ammonia reading of .25 today, which alarmed me, so I have done two 50% water changes today, and am still getting a .25 reading. My test kit tests for ammonia and ammonium, so if I calculate correctly at 8.2 pH and 78 temp, the toxic level is 0.022. Any ammonia at all worries me, because these are two fairly delicate fish, and I don't want to have any long term health ramifications.

The system has been up and running for about 7 weeks with a marineland biowheel filter, ut 10-15 lbs live rock, spiked with Nite Out II and plenty of flow. The fish were added on Wednesday of this week.

i expected a bump in negative parameters with the increased bioload, but I am nervous that the biological filtration hasn't taken care of the ammonia more quickly.

Any suggestions?

[dwd5813]

what test kit are you using and how old is it? try testing some rodi and see what you come up with. also, see if you can get a different kit to use and/or bring a sample to the lfs for cross checking purposes. in the meantime keep up with the water changes.

[reidcrandall]

It's a Red Sea test kit, and it's probably 4 months old. 5 on the outside.

Can't get another test til tomorrow, but I'll test my RODI and mixed salt water right now.

[dwd5813]

i don't have experience with the red sea tests. i'd recommend elos, salifert, or api. post up the results of the rodi and new salt water tests.

[reidcrandall]

New QT test: A little ligher than .25, but still close.
Replacement Salt Water: Llighter than the QT, but there's some green in there. Not yellow, to indicate 0.
RODI: 0

Is it possible that there is ammonia in my salt mix? I use Seachem Reef Salt.

[dwd5813]

hmm. i was actually kinda hoping your rodi would test positive and i could say your test was bad for sure. hopefully someone else using seachem salt will come along. i've only ever used reefcrystals and had no ammonia show up in it.

tell us more about what you did to set up the qt. did you test to see if it cycled before you put the fish in? did you see the traditional spike that leveled off to zero? did you say you have live rock in the qt? what is nite out II?

[lordofthereef]

I would keep up with the changes to get it down to at least what your "clean" saltwater mix looks like. I would bet your biological filter just needs a bit of time to catch up. It was probably starved of ammonia and with three decent sized fish it now has a little work to do.

[Toadally]

If you have the space always keep a filter running on your sump for use in a QT. This way you always have a bio filter good to go with plenty of bacteria.

I would also say that your filter needs to catch up with the bio load.

[reidcrandall]

It definitely went through a cycle. I keep a bio wheel in my Sump all the time to start the cycle

Nite out is a bacterial culture that is also supposed to help get a cycle going.

[dwd5813]

ok, then i agree with the others who said it just needs time. sounds like the bioload of the angels is exceeding the biofilter established. i'd keep up with water changes and testing until either you are ready to get the fish in the display or the biofilter catches up.

[mhltcob]

Are you treating with anything? You may want to add amquel+ in addition to doing the water changes.

[ChuckG]

Are you treating with anything? You may want to add amquel+ in addition to doing the water changes.

Yes this and Prime are solutions for an ammonia spike. Just be aware that they can lower the PH a bit and they will make any copper treatment much more toxic. I think I read that this was a QT tank, so be aware so you don't want to use this if there is copper in the tank. Also most ammonia test kits will still register ammonia even after this product is used.. SeaChem's ammonia test and alert badge both measure free ammonia are exceptions.

[reidcrandall]

I'm keeping with the water changes, did a 50% already today, and got Prime, which I am using in place of Amquel now.

It is a QT, but I have not treated for anything yet. I get them eating first and observe.

I will get a Seachem ammonia test tomorrow. The places that are open today don't carry it.

[Toadally]

John Copps did a lecture for our club, RASOC, a couple weeks ago. QT was one of the subjects discussed along with Angel Fish in Reef tanks. According to John, the best way to use qt's is as follows......

small ten gallon tank
use of small hang on filter (no carbon) already bacteria cultivated
50 watt heater (in case it sticks it's not going to boil the tank)
Seachem ammonia badge (they're excellent)
no lights
a couple of large pvc elbows
a 100% water change weekly
do not treat the fish with anything until you see signs of disease or parasites
do not exceed the capabilities of the bio filter

All this sounded pretty logical to me. hth