Percs clown breeding problem.

[Moort82]

Hi, was wondering if anyone can help me out. I've got a pair of mature Percula clowns, they are around five years old and they have only just started laying in the last few months.
The problem is they don't seem to be very accomplished at it yet. The first time they laid, the eggs were gone within a few hours, the next lasted around the same time, the third attempt was better and they kept them three days, but the fourth and fifth attempt were back to a few hours. The last two times i have noticed the female knocking a few eggs off when laying, the other thing is that the eggs are cloudy white. This i have heard may be down to nutrition but they get a really varied diet and eat like pigs. My friend has also seen the same with a pair and successfully grown a majority of the babies on. So is this down to nutrition or isn't it really a factor?
I don't think the reason for failure is predation, the other fish keep out of the way of the eggs and they lay in an easily guarded spot. So if predation isn't a factor, could it be to new parents? does it take them a few attempts to get it right? I've not witnessed them eating there own eggs at all.

Sorry for all the questions. Thanks in advance.

[Trademark]

Even though you are feeding them a balanced diet I would go ahead and add Seclon to every feed. Selcon will provide the substance to allow the eggs to stick properly to the item. Speaking of Item I didn't see that you mentioned what they are spawning on. You prob already know that it should be smooth but porous ( backside of ceramic tile, clay pot) just my two cents

[r.d.m]

if the eggs are cloudy white they are infertile,the male will recycle all infertile eggs so thats why they are going,i would think either the male is infertile or not fertilising the eggs,make sure the flow is not too strong at the laying site and give them more practice,if the problem continues you may have too replace the male

[Moort82]

Thanks, they lay on a piece of flat live rock, i would try selcon but it's not available over here in England.
I'm also not sure the male is the problem, the eggs are that colour straight from the female and i'm probably wrong but don't see why the males "contribution" would change this. The eggs also seem much larger than my friends clowns, my pair is much larger so this might be it.
I'll let them keep trying for now as they are a pair and i don't want to split them up. If they get there, they get there.

If you think of anything else, it would be greatfully recieved.

Thanks

[Trademark]

I would prob not split them up, some of the battle of breeding is getting them to breed.
Thats a real bummer that Selcon is not alvailable over there, I am pretty sure that Selcon is a real concentrate of Omega 3. Can you get Vita Chem? Or you can a similar product? Also if you could post some pics of the eggs when they lay next so we can see them. You might find someone over there aswell that can get something you need.

[Trademark]

The cloudy white color might be a fungus as well. Diet, Diet Diet Diet

[Mike in AZ]

Any crabs in the tank? The first time I moved my hermits and emerald crap to the sump the eggs started making to to hatch time. I also noticed if I fed frozen food soaked in selcon each day while the eggs were growing out the parents did not eat any of the eggs (other than picking out the unfertilized eggs)

[Moort82]

Thanks i do feed a mixture of flake foods and meaty foods such as mysis, krill, brine etc soaked in a vitamin supplement. I also feed a few times a day. Not sure if the eggs have a fungus as they stay the same colour they come out. I try and add a picture when they next lay to show the colour.
Only have one small hermit in the tank and it never goes anywhere near the clowns, i'm not really a fan of crabs.

I'd never split them up, they have been a pair for five years and were my first marine fish, breeding isn't really important but i'd like to try.

Thanks again.

[phil519]

i know food is supposed to be key - but i just feed my percs cycloppeeze wafers and some small aqueon pellets...once maybe twice a day. They've been laying eggs since summer 2009.

btw- even if the eggs make it to day 6,7,8 - are you going to raise the babies? if so - rotifier culture growing will be something to get used to.

[Moort82]

Hi Phil, i do plan on raising them, i have a friend whos an expert at it so hopefully can learn quickly.

[Trademark]

Since you have them breeding, whatever you do, I would prob do it slowly so you don't upset the balance that the pair right now,--remember this is just a bump in the road and you'll have them hatching in no time

[Moort82]

Thanks Trademark, i'm not gonna try anything drastic, maybe try and improve their diet or feed smaller meals more often. It's taken five years to get this far so waiting isn't a problem.

[eclown]

I agree with Trademark....you might also want to look at any additives you add to your tank as well as temperature. I noticed a bit of a reduction of healthy eggs after kalk dripping....I cut back the kalk and bam!....more eggs.

[Trademark]

+1 with eclown

[Moort82]

Temperature is a stable 25 c and i don't really add anything to the tank, the parametres are just maintained with small frequent water changes. But i'm happy to explore other options if this would help.

[Trademark]

I would prob just sit back and have a cold one, enjoy your fish and let them show you what they want, attention to details I think will be very important. There actually might be nothing wrong with your fish and your fish keeping. It just might take them a while before they get it right. Note: Do you know how long I practiced before I had my first child? But after I had my first 10months later I had another one. I got pretty good at it? Ha Ha Ha

[Moort82]

Do you know how long I practiced before I had my first child? But after I had my first 10months later I had another one. I got pretty good at it? Ha Ha Ha

:lolspin:

I'm really not in a hurry what's a few more years:fish2:

[eclown]

Hmmm...Ill bet that this will continue for the next couple of times and then the male will be able to produce sperm that will actually fertilize the eggs. He could be too young and hasn't developed enough...the positive is that they are going through the motions. I'll bet ya a cold one that by summer, things will take a turn for the better. Just be prepared for a small cluster the first time. Keep an eye on the male to see if he follows behind her while she is laying them. He should give a little wiggle, swim away and keep doing it until she is finished. My guess is that he is just too young.

[Trademark]

Very well could be , good call eclown

[Sullyman]

The eggs should not come out of the female white, the lady may still be maturing, they should be orange before the male does anything to them. They know the eggs aren't alive so they clear the nest, time and patience.

[Moort82]

Yeah thanks everyone, i'll just give them some time then. They are a five year old pair but it's only been just over a year since the female started growing bigger, up until then they were the same size. She is now much bigger and fat as mud. I guess they are just really slow to mature. But being five they still have a couple of decades to get it right :lolspin:

[Moort82]

They have bred again and i tried very hard to get a pic but you know clowns and laying in the most secluded spot possible. This is the best i could do, you can see the colour of the eggs is very pale with the white tip. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm38/adamm1769/Untitled-11-5.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm38/adamm1769/Untitled-12-5.jpg

Thanks

[Trademark]

They are not fertilized male to young yet

[cabrego]

Yeah, I would say the female is shooting blanks When the eggs are first layed they are birght orange and then develop a dark black spots (fishe's eyes)

[Sullyman]

The eggs come out of the female Orange, the male can't make dead eggs into baby fish.
So the female isn't producing viable eggs yet, don't blame the male for shooting blanks.

[cabrego]

The eggs come out of the female Orange, the male can't make dead eggs into baby fish.
So the female isn't producing viable eggs yet, don't blame the male for shooting blanks.

Agreed missed the previous posts about the eggs coming strait from the female like that.

Not good! Looks like the female is shoot blanks?!

[Moort82]

thanks that's kinda what i thought, good job breeding isn't that important to me. Perhaps with time things will improve.

[aquaph8]

Funny how touchy guys get when someone mentions shooting blanks. If I was capable of that many kids at once I would pray for blanks.