Looking for Deep Sand Bed success stories

[medicreefer]

Hi all,

I'm a pretty new reefer and currently only have a 20g nano reef on the go but I'm already planning out the details for my future 120g tank.

My wife and I have fallen in love with the Yellowhead "pearly" Jawfish and all their unique personality antics. So we plan on housing a small colony of them in the 120g tank. Yellowhead jawfish need a deep, mixed-grade substrate of 4-6 inches deep for them to feel comfortable and exhibit normal behaviour.

My problem is all of the negativity I've been reading recently about DSB systems and their becoming nutrient traps, etc. It has me a bit worried about the long-term health of my tank.

So, I'm asking for anyone out there who has had success in keeping a tank with a deep sand bed for 3-5 years or longer to please share your success stories with me. I'm looking for encouragement that it can be done successfully and tips on how to make it work.

Thanks

[jenglish]

OK, my current tank is only about a year and a half old but I have seen DSB 10 years old. The key to remember is that PO4 binds to calcium carbonate. If you run lax husbandry your tank will seem fine for years as it binds phosphate until it fills and you have a seemingly unsolvable algae problem. The rock can wick this PO4 as well. Keep a good amount of flow to keep detritus suspended and a good skimmer to pull it out. You can siphon your DSB and remove organics. The hypoxic zones will re-establish and you won't re-set your denitrifying bacteria. keep in mind for de-nitirification you want low O2, not 0 O2. True anoxic areas are where you will get hydrogen sulfide (black nasties that people tell you not to disturb your DSB so you don't get them. But if you clean it, it won't ever form).

Just keep in mind that the sand isn't magic and needs cleaned and you should be fine. :)

[medicreefer]

So, what you're saying is to have a DSB but not really leave it alone and untouched like a traditional DSB. Rather sift it and vaccuum it. That is one option I guess to prevent it from becoming the dreaded "nutrient trap" I suppose. However does anybody have any success running a traditional DSB long term?

[ccombs70]

So, what you're saying is to have a DSB but not really leave it alone and untouched like a traditional DSB. Rather sift it and vaccuum it. That is one option I guess to prevent it from becoming the dreaded "nutrient trap" I suppose. However does anybody have any success running a traditional DSB long term?

I was wondering the same thing.... bump

[jasonrp104]

I keep a pretty close eye on mine and I clean it in sections. Once a month, I'll siphon one third of the top 2"/3" of sand. It's never gotten nasty and still does what it was designed for. I'll also take a long plastic stick (pencil sized) and jab right down to the glass in small sections to avoid any clumping. It seems to work for me. During my last major tank cleaning, I only found one clump of bound up sand in a hard to reach area

edit: My DSB is also only about a year old and because of an upgrade that I'm starting soon, it wont be there much longer

[fishtankdon]

When a sand sifting fish is added to a deep sandbed, all that stuff goes out the window. They do such a good job at digging new homes, mixing the sand up few times a week, never should be an issue. We have 4 inch plus beds, and gobies or whatever keep it real clean. Never time for any sand to just sit there with them moving around. Other tanks, we will mess up the sand top layers here and there so all the filter feeders can go crazy.

[borcu]

i m using for 6 years. never touch, never siphoned as what Shimek says. please read Ron Shimek.

[jenglish]

i m using for 6 years. never touch, never siphoned as what Shimek says. please read Ron Shimek.

If the OP is going to run a Shimek DSB, he would have to not put a jawfish in, which is the reason he wants a DSB.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU ADD "SAND-SIFTING" ANIMALS SUCH AS BURROWING SEA STARS OR SOME GOBIES. These animals are "sifting" the sediment to eat the sand critters that you need to have thrive. From this point, gradually add more animals up to the desired level. http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html

IMO Shimek's methods are the source of 90% the problems people report with DSBs contributing to OTS. I have known folks that have run DSBs long term w/o cleaning, but they were ATS systems so IDK how a Berlin style tank would do with one long term. The binding property of calcium carbonate to phosphate is hard to get around, but can be managed so that a DSB lasts for many years.

[travismcgee]

so a shallow sand bed for looks, say an inch or 2, would not cause the issues vs a true bare bottom? thanks

[borcu]

jenglish btw any topic about your gobies here?

30gallon mixed reef, 10 shrimp/goby

[Scopus Tang]

There are success stories out there on traditional DSB systems. I've been running my DSB for three years untouched, and I know someone else who has been running theirs for 5 years without issues. However, as was stated, when you add burrowing animals like the jawfish, traditional DSB systems go out the window. In a traditional DSB, the bottom-most layer of sand or CC is undisturbed to prevent the release of potentially toxic gas and nutrients. With a sand burrowing fish, it is difficult to prevent the distruption of this level, and hence the potential for problems arise. Incorporating a fiberglass mesh over the bottom two to three inches so that burrowing fish cannot reach this layer may resolve some of those issues. Personally I think that when you add burrowing fish, the traditional DSB goes out the window - and perhaps the idea of vaccuming the DSB to prevent the accumulation of nutrients is the best idea.

[O'Man]

My 90 gallon tank has a deep sandbed that is 8 years old. I don't clean it or stir it. There is a hitchiker shrimp or shrimps that have deep tunnels in part of the tank. I grow calupera, use carbon & GFO. The calupera is there & it won't go away, so I prune it. I like my tank, but will readily admit it won't make tank of the month. I also will admit I do very little maintence, mostly owing to an unpleasantly busy schedule.

I have made 3 attempts with jawfish, but they never made it more than a few months before I found them on the floor, so be sure you have a good cover. My observation on Jawfish is they tend to build their homes by digging underneath and along the edges of rocks. I did not find them making multiple homes after the first couple of weeks. I would expect you would have as roughly as many tunnels as fish.

If it were me, I would place couple of large flat rocks to make a stable places for them to dig under, on a new and non established DSB. This way, they could dig and make their homes before all the bacteria develop. Then as the bacteria establish themselves they would colonize to the oxygen conditions of their liking, and the holes should not create a problem since they are not being dug after things are established.

I like the screen idea above too. When I ran plenums in other tanks, it was the norm.

[medicreefer]

I've seen several Yellowhead Jawfish in other reefer's tanks and even had one myself in my 20g for a short while before it died of Ich. My own fault, I was new and stupid and didn't quarantine. My experience is that they move around a few times before they feel comfortable but once they are settled they will keep to their one burrow each. My friend says his moves it's burrow now every six months but it certainly doesn't continually sift and dig in the sand other than to find new support rocks for it's current home, which it takes from the top .5" of substrate. It definitely does constantly work on it's home though.

If I go with a 4" sand bed I think they should be fine but I'm thinking that I won't use a traditional DSB and will continue to sift and vac the sand bed in the parts where the jawfish aren't living. Does that sound like it might be successful?