First colors fade, now bleaching from the base

[cccapt]

Over the last year maybe, I noticed the colors, especially purples, starting to fade. Green, orange, blue and red are all still OK nowhere near as faded as purple. Now, a few, especially a Bali Tricolor validia has started to bleach from the base. The validia is the worse, but I see it on a few others. There is no bleaching at all on any millie, prostrata, nasuta, aspera(even tho it went from deep purple to pastel purple now) or any monti.

Lighting is 3x175 Iwasaki 15k and 2x160 VHO SuperActinic. Actinics on for 9 hrs, MH on for 7.
I run GFO and carbon in a reactor and change them every 4-6 weeks.
I've been dosing DIY 2-part and keep a pretty steady 420 ca, 9 dKH alk, 1325 mag. The amount I dose has almost dropped in 1/2 over the last month when....I noticed my alk was around 11 dKH. I went from about 225 ml of each/day to now about 125ml of each.
Nothing else changed. 20% water change every 2 weeks with Red Sea salt. Tank has been running for little over 2 years now with mostly SPS, but it's an upgrade from the 50g, then 75g reef I started 20 years ago.

Here's the base bleaching on the validia.
http://www.centercup.net/images/125build/validia-base_3-10.jpg

A bad pic of the faded purple.
http://www.centercup.net/images/125build/validia-tips_3-10.jpg

This is the same coral about 4 months ago.
http://www.centercup.net/images/125build/tricolor_11-18-09.jpg

[maestro]

Hi,

Have you tested for pottasium and iodine defiency?

Do you dose anything like zeovit or simular?

[cccapt]

No, I never tested for either. I don't dose anything except ca, alk and mag.

I also only have 6 fish in the tank. Mated pair of clowns, lamarck angel(6 1/2"), Atlantic blue tang(5"), 2-spot bristletooth tang(4 1/2") and yellow watchman goby. I feed them pretty heavy, every day.

[Ricunger]

Larry,

When you noticed the DKH was at 11 when was the last time you tested it @ 9? Maybe a spike caused some stress.

[cccapt]

Ric, I usually test every 2 weeks, right before I do my water change. It was about 3 weeks ago I noticed it at 11 and it was back down to 9 in a few days and has been steady now at 9. But.....I'm only dosing a little more than 1/2 of what I was dosing before to keep the same levels. Something is wrong, but I don't know what it is.

[cccapt]

Anyone else care to take a shot at what the problem may be?

[ryshark]

Maybe too low of nutrients and/ or flow? What is you nitrate and p04?

[DeathWish302]

Larry,

Sorry to hear your current state. I'm experiencing something similar, as all my validas have bleached (1 is back to a pastel green), orange is faded and pink/red/purple are non-existant (except for a red unchanged chalice frag). My Pearlberry from Dan is white with a slight pastel hue and a frag from his Sanjay pink mille colony is white and brown. A couple deept purple-blue frags i picked up at the last swap are now brown with light purple tips.... I've discussed with Dan and thought it was maybe too nutrient poor. As I upped the Seachem Reef+ an increase in hair algae occurred. I've been adding some Potassium, but doubt a ATS with no zeo could cause this. I didn't have a spike as you, but have been running alk at about 7.5-8 and have finally bumped it up to try something else. My next area will be iodine testing and additions along with possibly strontium. I've added Potassium Nitrate, Iron, and fed heavily with no change. I've switched completely to RC from IO with no changes in the past few weeks. This completely blows my mind how the blue, green & yellow frags look as good as a zeo setup, but the remaining colors are blah.

Let me know if you find a breakthrough in your dilemna and I will keep you posted on any changes I encounter.

[RickMartin]

My first guess would be phosphates. I have to change my gfo every 2-3 weeks on an 85g tank. Looks like some algae growth in the background too but only one picture now working

[cccapt]

Frank,

This has me totally confused. I've changed virtually nothing in the way I maintain my tank over the last 2 years, in fact I've been doing pretty much the same thing for 20 yrs, but just got into SPS a few years ago. Same salt, same 20g/2 wks water change, change GFO & carbon 4-6 wks. There is virtually no nusiance algae at all in the tank. Lots of coralline and that's still growing. The only change I did was drop the time my lights were on. I talked to Sanjay at our last swap and asked him about the fading colors. He thought too much light and not enough nutrients. I dropped the time my lights are on from 10 hr MH to 7 hrs MH and from 12 hrs actinic to 9 hrs. I don't really know what to do to add nutrients to feed the corals without polluting the tank. I'm just not up on all the bottled supplements and which are good and which are a waste of money.

The validia was a 1" frag when I got it, now the colony is a little bigger than a softball. And to add to the confusion, the base is bleaching but the branches are still growing new tips and I get fairly good polyp extension during the day and they are out in full force at night. It's only happening on a few corals, the validia, a Larry Jackson purple tip (http://www.greghiller.com/sps_corals.htm) is just started to show some bleaching but not on the base but up a little in a very shaded part of the coral, a Mike Accardi teal stag (http://www.greghiller.com/sps_corals.htm) still has real good color and the branches are still growing but the base is bleaching. The millies/prostratas aren't affected at all and have great color and polyp extension. No affect on any monti's either.

Here's a few recent tank shots from about 1.5 months ago. Every coral you see, except the tan cap in the middle and pachyseris.sp on the far left were grown from 1" frags in about 2 years time.

http://www.centercup.net/images/125build/fts_2-5-10.jpg

http://www.centercup.net/images/125build/fts-lt_2-5-10.jpg

http://www.centercup.net/images/125build/fts-rt_2-5-10.jpg

[DeathWish302]

Larry,

The photo period change is an interesting concept....:worried:
I too have been running MH for 10-11 hours and wonder about photo inhibition. I have noted a slight change in the latest red/green milli addition with the last 3 days and 3gal WCs' per day. The red is coming back 'some'.

Up until the past 5 months, I have only added MAG Flake, Epsom salts, baked baking soda & calcium chloride to my tank (minus food). The latest additions of nitrate, iron, Reefplus & such were out of desperation. I've never been one for snake oils and feel alot of these additives are exactly that. I have resumed my prior stance and will only try iodine (Lugol's) if that level is low. I will continue to perfrom ~5% WC every day for the next couple weeks and see if this helps with the benefit of the replenished trace elements.

Are you running the Iwasakis' on magnetic or electronic? How old are those bulbs? My reeflux 12k bulb starts showing HA growth when it's heading south, but not familiar with the Iwasaki bulbs. If your bulbs are good, I would suggest maybe a couple large WC to see if that helps.

Finally, it was suggested from Dan that I thoroughly clean any detritus out of my display/sump. I did not get time this weekend as planned, but I'm planning on cleaning some build-up I have acquired in the past year surrounding the skimmer and completely teardown the skimmer and soak in vinegar along with redoing the mesh on the modified QO3000.

Really at this point, I'm just shooting out ideas that have been suggested to me and I have not completed yet. They may help or do nothing other than performing some spring cleaning... I feel your pain, as I went full blown sps about 2 years ago also and have never seen anything like this with zoas and rics in nearly 10 years.....?

[rholguin]

I had a similiar experiance colors started fading and then dieing. Nothing had changed in the tank. I don't do any carbon dosing. I started feeding my fish more I feed three times a day now and my sps are starting to regain their color. So in my case low nutrients was the problem. I do have an over size skimmer so I think I might have overskimmed. Good luck.

[DeathWish302]

rholguin,

You have only started feeding your fish more? No sps specified diet? Why I ask is I upped feedings to nearly 4x previous amounts and had no positive upturn, only increased turf scrubber production.

[reefsic]

Temp. flux? Got a good heater/chiller running in the system?

[Canadian]

I'm having almost exactly the same coloration problems. I've recently added sand (previously BB) and several fish to try to get my nutrient levels up. My NO3 and PO4 have literally been 0.00 (Elos and Hanna respectively).

Here's the tank one week after adding sand and 6 green chromis and a yellow tang. I'll give it a few weeks to monitor for color change.

I was inclined to blame it on my T5 lighting at one point but seeing that you have 250W MH I guess I can't do that anymore and have to assume it's a nutrient issue.

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/argrant/UpdatedReefwithSandMarch2320101.jpg?t=1269474633

[rholguin]

Deathwish302- yes I started feeding the fish more but on top of that I feed oyster eggs every other day when the lights are out. I have also just bought some rotofeast so ill see how my corals respond to this food.

[sweet ride]

I just went full blown SPS as well, I was very happy with the color of the tank a few weeks ago… but now the color of my tank looks very similar to the pictures that have been posted….

I will tag along as well….

[mjstover]

It looks like a lack of nutrient to me too. The best way to fix this is deffinitaly add fish and feed the fish more often. Dont start dumping in bottled food that could just lead to other issues like you said. Add fish feed them more and let them feed the coral. I cant really tell but it looks like your tank might be close to a BB with just alittle bit of sand, if so BB tanks must be careful with nutrient levels because they can drop really. BB tanks need very good skimming and very good feeding.

[cccapt]

Temp. flux? Got a good heater/chiller running in the system?
Temp is a steady 78-79 using a Ranco 2 stage controller.

I got in touch with Eric Borneman to see what his thoughts are. He says not enough PAR from the 175w Iwasaki 15k bulbs. Dunno....the Iwasaki's put out more PAR than Radiums and many other popular 250w bulbs. I do have a couple 250w ballasts so I may just try 250w XM 10k's. I'm really just grabbing straws here now, but I have to do something. I've been doing 20g water changes about every 3-4 days, but it doesn't seem to be making any difference.

The pic I posted at the top of the thread showing the validia base bleaching was taken on 3-11. Here is a pic of the same coral taken on 3-24, so about 2 weeks worth of bleaching.

http://www.centercup.net/images/125build/validia-base_3-24-10.jpg

[finksmart]

Are those bite marks on the thick branch coming out the base? Have you dipped or basted for aefw?

Temp is a steady 78-79 using a Ranco 2 stage controller.

I got in touch with Eric Borneman to see what his thoughts are. He says not enough PAR from the 175w Iwasaki 15k bulbs. Dunno....the Iwasaki's put out more PAR than Radiums and many other popular 250w bulbs. I do have a couple 250w ballasts so I may just try 250w XM 10k's. I'm really just grabbing straws here now, but I have to do something. I've been doing 20g water changes about every 3-4 days, but it doesn't seem to be making any difference.

The pic I posted at the top of the thread showing the validia base bleaching was taken on 3-11. Here is a pic of the same coral taken on 3-24, so about 2 weeks worth of bleaching.

http://www.centercup.net/images/125build/validia-base_3-24-10.jpg

[platax88]

Temp is a steady 78-79 using a Ranco 2 stage controller.

I got in touch with Eric Borneman to see what his thoughts are. He says not enough PAR from the 175w Iwasaki 15k bulbs...[/IMG]

I was always under the impression that not enough PAR browns out coral. Usually too much light will bleach or "lighten". I could be wrong.

I have also started to see my sps lighten in the past few weeks on my 180 BB. I have always hovered around 2-5 ppm on N03 but a few weeks ago I reached undetectable levels... coincidence?

[cccapt]

Are those bite marks on the thick branch coming out the base?
No, there are no bite marks anywhere. No eggs either. I pulled 1 of the corals out and checked it with a magnifying glass. Also did a quick Lugol's dip and nothing.
I was always under the impression that not enough PAR browns out coral. Usually too much light will bleach or "lighten". I could be wrong.
This is what Eric said: "You will lose color basically because of three things where conditions no longer favor the production of fluorescing proteins (not enough energy to produce them or no need to produce them) - and this would likely be either lack of nitrogen (food) to produce the proteins or, for those species where production is related to light levels (high or low) because the light environment doesn't favor them. In your case, this could only be irradiance levels that are too low. Finally, you could have zooxanthellae pigment or number increases where brown begins to mask the fluorescing proteins and this often happens when dissolved nutrients are high. Yes, there could be other stressors, bleaching, and other factors that shut down gene activation but these are pretty remote compared to the likelihood and commonness of the other factors. With the species you showed and the information presented and the lack of other issues relatively low irradiance is the most likely cause. If you had irrandiance levels that clearly ruled out that possibility, then I would l look at the next most likely possibilities."

[maestro]

I had this problem occur 2 months ago, I didnt have any fish into my reef, just sps, I noticed it on the monti's and valida, the milles and birdnest seemed not too bad.

Temporarilly I would cut down the lighting period, the corals arent showing their natural pigments which means they are more likely to be damaged by the lights and bleach

I would then look into the following

Pottasium - helps cellular function, if its really low then cause be a contributing factor, the Fauna marin test is the best

Iodine - that is more likely to effect the tips of the corals but worth a test.

Nutrients, have you tested your nitrate level? its its bang on zero then possible a nutrient deficiency.

Supplements that have helped me are KZ sponge power, amino acids and Coral vitalizer, they really have bought the colour back into the tips of the acros, I dose 1 drop of each per 100l per day.

[cccapt]

My montis are still growing like weeds. No color loss or bleaching on any of them.

I've been doing 20g water changes every 3-4 days so if the tank is low on any trace elements, the water changes should bring them back up.

Nitrate and phosphate are both undectable with Salifert kits and always have been.

I already dropped the time the halides are on from 10 hrs to 7 hrs. I have new 250w XM 10k bulbs coming in so I will have to drop the time even more so I don't light shock the corals when I take out the 175w Iwasaki's.

[DeathWish302]

Larry,

I have found that elevating the lights higher instead of shortening the photo period seems to cause less shock.

JME...

[cccapt]

Frank, there is no way I can raise my lights. They are built into my canopy.

http://www.centercup.net/images/125build/hammertone-after2_3-09.jpg

[maestro]

Regarding trace elements, it depends on what salt you are using as to whether or not you will be topping up trace elements.

From what ive read In my opinion I believe this is probably a nitrogen defiency combined what possibly low pottasium and trace elements.

I think you should maybe look into testing for these and then you can rule them out.

The only other possibility I can think of is faulty lamps and or ballasts, ive seen this happen to tanks run when they ran metal halide lamps on non metal halide ballasts, the excess UV light bleached everything.

[cccapt]

As far a salt, I use Red Sea Coral Pro or regular Red Sea. I don't want to start trying a bunch of things at once and I really don't want to get into dosing trace elements. I know you guys on the other side of the pond are into alot of different supplements but I want to keep it simple.

I'm going to see what happens with the 250w XM 10K's and keep doing 20g water changes every few days. I'm just baffled. How can everything grow so nice for 2 years and then all of a sudden bleaching starts on a select few corals....but only the base while the branches are still growing new tips. No doubt something happened, but I have no clue.

[myzislow]

Perhaps your colonies have reached the point in which they are so large that lack of light/flow at the base is leading to the STN. Though, it does seem odd that you are only noticing the recession in a few corals. My buddy's large tri-color does the same thing, the base slowly recedes while the upper branches that are exposed to adequate light and flow continue to grow and flourish.

[BradR]

My standard lame response: try a polyfilter? :rolleye1:
I dunno, maybe it's a system wide bacterial thing going on.
Re lighting: I have bleaching/zeo fading of corals high up in my tank under 20K's but same species of corals look totally normal on the other side low down under 10K's fwiw.

[platax88]

I use 3 layers of nilon netting and remove one at a time every week. Shorter photoperiod will not work IMHO and you will risk burning your corals. I would assume even more so sincee you are experiencing the paleness.

[cccapt]

That's a good idea, especially with the pale coloring. I'll get some eggcrate with a few layers of screen and use that.

[platax88]

That's a good idea, especially with the pale coloring. I'll get some eggcrate with a few layers of screen and use that.

:thumbsup:

[DeathWish302]

I understand about the lack of adjustment with your hood design. I forget not everyone likes the 'aquaculture facility' look with halides hanging from the ceiling.

Beautiful DIY Lumenarcs though! :thumbsup:

Agreed about the KISS approach. I suggest against trace element additions, as too much can be just as hamrful and we have no way to adequately test for these elements. After reviewing Borneman's Coral book, I would say a nitrogen limited system is not possible. Even with undetectable NO3, this level is multiple times higher than waters surrounding reefs. From reading a section in Eric's book several times, I feel both our situations are light related.

Only time will tell I guess....

[Canadian]

I understand about the lack of adjustment with your hood design. I forget not everyone likes the 'aquaculture facility' look with halides hanging from the ceiling.

Beautiful DIY Lumenarcs though! :thumbsup:

Agreed about the KISS approach. I suggest against trace element additions, as too much can be just as hamrful and we have no way to adequately test for these elements. After reviewing Borneman's Coral book, I would say a nitrogen limited system is not possible. Even with undetectable NO3, this level is multiple times higher than waters surrounding reefs. From reading a section in Eric's book several times, I feel both our situations are light related.

Only time will tell I guess....

The only problem with that is that captive propagated corals over several generations could very well become accustomed to elevated nitrogen levels and in their absence demonstrate growth and color changes. Just as most people experience drastic color changes in maricultured corals upon placing them in their aquaria, I don't see it being unreasonable that a coral fragment with many generations of being exposed to higher nutrient levels in aquaria would also experience some changes if exposed to relatively lower nutrient levels. But that's just my intuition and not based on any science.

I will follow along keenly as I've suspected my coloration issues also stemmed from low light. Although, within the last week of adding several fish and increasing feeding I am seeing intensification of colors in most of my corals.

[DeathWish302]

The only problem with that is that captive propagated corals over several generations could very well become accustomed to elevated nitrogen levels and in their absence demonstrate growth and color changes. Just as most people experience drastic color changes in maricultured corals upon placing them in their aquaria, I don't see it being unreasonable that a coral fragment with many generations of being exposed to higher nutrient levels in aquaria would also experience some changes if exposed to relatively lower nutrient levels. But that's just my intuition and not based on any science.

I will follow along keenly as I've suspected my coloration issues also stemmed from low light. Although, within the last week of adding several fish and increasing feeding I am seeing intensification of colors in most of my corals.

The reason I do not feel my fading is from sparse feeding and/or low nitrates is I have in the past couple months experimented with increasing both. I increased food over about a month to 4X what previously I was feeding to the fish and corals. That equated to roughly the volume of food as 4 cubes from a freezer pack PER DAY for a 58gal. No change.......:hmm4:

I then added KNO3 after the food caused no change. I was adding enough nitrate to maintain the NO3 at 1ppm, with no visible change in color. I did have minor improved growth, but no color shift. The problem with pumping that much nitrate was this fueled HA, which I'm finally getting a handle on a month after I ceased dosing.

I'm not saying that these corals could not 'evolve', but it seems very odd that in only a couple generations over a decade they could change so quickly wrt their environment. I agree a wild coral does act differently than an aquacultured specimen, but I feel that evolutionary trend to higher nitrates is too quick. I think their 'adaption bands' are wider than we give credit. When taking corals from various reef sectors and throwing them in the same tank, I believe these types of adaptions are happening. I don't think they are evolving, but making the best of their situation.

Obviously this is only my opinion and has not been scientifically proven... I may be completely full of it.

Any other's experience this oddity?

[RickMartin]

How old are the bulbs? Don't they tend to shift toward the red as they get old?

[cccapt]

The bulbs are 9 months old and are still plenty good. Even tho this article doesn't pertain to my exact bulbs, it gives a good general idea.

Feature Article: Metal Halide Lamps - Aging Over Time (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/7/aafeature1)
"The study presented some very interesting data on the life of metal halide lamps. It reinforced the view that the spectral qualities change over time resulting in the change of the CCT of the lamps to lower values due to reduction in output of the blue portions of the spectrum."
"Another point to note was that the drop in output over almost 17 months of use was around 21%, lower than I would have expected."

[LifeAquatic]

If you have cal, mag, alk in check maybe your tank is a little nutrient poor. Try a few things to find your "balance". If you want to see your tank when you get home dont cut the lighting schedule. Another route is to feed more heavily and turn your skimmer off for a few hrs a day. Also, try feeding your SPS. Maybe some phyto feast, Oyster feast, and rotti feast would help get those colors back. Another thing to consider. How often do you change your bulbs? Maybe its time. I actually employ all the above tactics in moderation if I notice colors looking pastel.

[LifeAquatic]

I might be wasting money here, but I replace bulbs every 6 months. Corals seem to be happy with it.

[broke1]

I have noticed a conection in my tank(s), although it could just be me but here it goes. As I have been slowly stripping the nutrients out of my tank, my corals in the well lit DT have lightened and some have actually quit growing, but the corals in the lesser lit frag tank are still colorful(same system). I wonder if there is some connection between nutrients and the amount of light a coral can handle. Kind of along the lines of a coral that is getting "starved" for nutrients and beginnng to lighten either doesn't have enough Zo-algae(I'm not even going to try and spell it) or the algae isn't strong enough to handle the excess light.

Sorry that was written like a 4 year old, I don't have the reefing vocabulary of some others on here.

[Marklu]

I have noticed a conection in my tank(s), although it could just be me but here it goes. As I have been slowly stripping the nutrients out of my tank, my corals in the well lit DT have lightened and some have actually quit growing, but the corals in the lesser lit frag tank are still colorful(same system). I wonder if there is some connection between nutrients and the amount of light a coral can handle. Kind of along the lines of a coral that is getting "starved" for nutrients and beginnng to lighten either doesn't have enough Zo-algae(I'm not even going to try and spell it) or the algae isn't strong enough to handle the excess light.

Sorry that was written like a 4 year old, I don't have the reefing vocabulary of some others on here.

I understand, and yes youre right. Zoox. density is dependent primarily on nutrients and light intensity (among other things). So increased light will shed Zoox. from a coral, as will decreasing nutrients. So when you combine the two of them you can, in some cases, remove two much zoox. to the point where the coral can neither grow nor produce pigments. Some argue that we cannot drive nutrients low enough to cause this aquaria, but i disagree.

[sanababit]

i went thru the same problem, i found out that my alk was going up and down, it killed 2 corals from the base up, now its at 9dkh and colors came back, a few weeks ago it did it again and all params where in check so i started feeding more to get some po4-no3 going, now there coming back, maybe like someone said, your tank is too clean

sana

[rigleautomotive]

Larry,I was thinking about this and I remember having a couple unexplainable issues like this thru the years.After many hours,days of thought I attributed it to alelopathy.These episodes of poor health,stn etc... occurred after a large fragging event and usually when I was cutting softies,xenia or other non sps corals and I am quite convinced this was the cause or at least the straw that broke the camels back scenario.May be unrelated to your issue but I thought I would throw it out there and see if might be related.

[JMBoehling]

Give this a try. Yank your GFO and GAC. Do a small water change and throw a bad of Purigen in a high flow area of your sump.

I've had similiar issues with my reef in the past, and simply by removing all GAC and GFO and using Purigen instead my SPS came full circle. Just like every other product, don;t use too much Purigen. I think the "Bag" is good for 100 gallons of water.

Hope this helps you out!

Later,

Jim

[cccapt]

I don't want to start making multiple changes at once and not knowing which change, if any, leads to a turn around. For now I'm going to keep doing 20g water changes every few days and see if the new 250w XM 10k's make a difference. I also picked up a bottle of Kent Zooplankton and will start feeding it to the corals.

Looking back on what may have started this, the only thing I can think of is my alk. For years I ran it at 7-8 dKH. Using Red Sea salt, it was easy to keep it al that level since that's right around where the salted mixed to. Ive heard bumping it up a little may help in faster coral growth, so I started mixing IO with Red Sea for a higher alk and stabilized my alk around 10 dKH. I've also read that ULNS Zeo tanks can't keep their alk high. Maybe the low nutrient levels in my tank along with the higher alk set this all in motion. So now with my alk back down in the 7-8 dKH range and more powerful lighting, only time will tell if this will put me back on the right track.

[platax88]

I don't want to start making multiple changes at once and not knowing which change, if any, leads to a turn around. For now I'm going to keep doing 20g water changes every few days and see if the new 250w XM 10k's make a difference. I also picked up a bottle of Kent Zooplankton and will start feeding it to the corals.

Just curious as to why you are doing a 20gal change every few days if you fear that you are at ULN? I almost think you should do the opposite. I shoot for 5% weekly.

[cccapt]

Water changes never hurt and are never a bad thing. If I'm low on any trace elements, as it has been suggested, the water changes should bring those levels back up.

[platax88]

Water changes never hurt and are never a bad thing. If I'm low on any trace elements, as it has been suggested, the water changes should bring those levels back up.

True, but if it's the low nutrient level that is causing the paleness then your water changes are cleaning the water further.... You may find that your colors will respond with as little as 1 - 2ppm... even 5ppm N03 reading. I just dont think trace elements would be consumed at 20% every few days and would hate to see you spend money and possibly cause instability such as Ca Alk Mg swings. As long as you are watching out for all of that I guess no harm is done as you state.

[DeathWish302]

True, but if it's the low nutrient level that is causing the paleness then your water changes are cleaning the water further.... You may find that your colors will respond with as little as 1 - 2ppm... even 5ppm N03 reading. I just dont think trace elements would be consumed at 20% every few days and would hate to see you spend money and possibly cause instability such as Ca Alk Mg swings. As long as you are watching out for all of that I guess no harm is done as you state.

I tried adding KNO3 (Spectracide? Stump Remover) and held this at ~0.5ppm with little more than accelerated growth. I tried this for more than 2 months...still nothing.

Larry - Do you have a DSB or SSB on the system? If so, I found that the amount of KNO3 I was adding to maintain a consistent 0.5ppm level was out of my 'safety zone' with a 0.5"-3" SB in 4.5ft^2. Once the hydrogen sulfide starting showing (dark patches in the corners of the SB), I ceased dosing. With two avid digging clowns, all I need is a massive die-off from them deciding to dig in this corner this week.

OMG!..... I wonder if the irritation caused from the sand storm every 2-3 days created from the clowns could be causing my issue.....:idea:
Larry - You have any fish that recently started diggin more?.....

[cccapt]

Frank, I have a SSB. When I started the tank it was all about 1" deep. Now some spots have no sand and some maybe 1.5"-2" deep. No sand digging fish either.

[Fisher72]

Hi,

I had something similar over the past 2 months, in my case I fired up my UV and color seem to be coming back.

Not saying my problems were identical but if you're not running UV it might be worth a shot.

Tim

[cccapt]

Glad to hear your problems are turning around, but I think it's only a coincidence it happened with a UV unit turned on. I don't see how coral colors can be related to uv usage.

[platax88]

glad to hear your problems are turning around, but i think it's only a coincidence it happened with a uv unit turned on. I don't see how coral colors can be related to uv usage.

+1

[reeferdale]

great thread. I have been dealing with this for 2 months now. I have a 180 lots of stuff. My acans and chalices are fine, as are all softies (for now). But my monti's and acros are getting real pale, I have a large open brain that is almost translucent! and right next to these pale corals I have others that are just fine. I have 2 different superman monti's one is the same as it always has been blue/red the other is sky blue and pink - they were from different sources, but they used to look the same.

I do not think they are dying - do not see any shrinkage. But they have went from crayon colors to pastels. I have not had a problem like this in 15 years and all of a sudden it hit. My ALK is high 10.8 but everything else is spot on
ph 8.10
calc 420
no phosphate or nitrate
salinity .024

I need to follow this thread. I started using a dip tonight on several of my duplicate corals that are pale. again this is strange, some caroals are affected and some are not. Ny fear is that it is only a matter of time before it spreads to everyting

[cccapt]

Even tho it's only been about a month since I started taking some action on this issues, I think I'm starting to see some light at the end of the tunnel. I've changed over 200g worth of water in that time (20g every 2-3 days) and the new 250w XM 10k's have been in use a almost 2 weeks now. I also started feeding Kent Zooplex every other day.

What I see so far is much better polyp extension and the colors seem to be coming back. The bleaching was slow to begin with, so I can't tell if it's stopped, but it isn't getting faster. I pullled 1 of the corals out that was bleeching at the base and covered the area with SuperGlue. That seems to have stopped the base from bleeching. The tips/branches aren't affected on any of the corals, it's only the base of a few select corals.

For now, I'm going to continue with the 20g water changes for another week or so and then go back to my regular bi-weekly water changes. If I was lacking any trace elements, they should be built back up. I will also remove the final layer of eggcrate (I used eggcrate and 2 layers of screen to help light acclimate the corals to the stronger PAR from the XM bulbs) next week. Only time will tell if these small changes made any difference, but I do see some rays of hope.

[rigleautomotive]

Thats great larry.you may have the solution to your problem there.keep us posted.

[platax88]

AWESOME! Keep us posted.

[Namn8r]

As far a salt, I use Red Sea Coral Pro or regular Red Sea. I don't want to start trying a bunch of things at once and I really don't want to get into dosing trace elements. I know you guys on the other side of the pond are into alot of different supplements but I want to keep it simple.

I'm going to see what happens with the 250w XM 10K's and keep doing 20g water changes every few days. I'm just baffled. How can everything grow so nice for 2 years and then all of a sudden bleaching starts on a select few corals....but only the base while the branches are still growing new tips. No doubt something happened, but I have no clue.

Ccapt, this started happening to me too recently and I could not figure out the problem. I lost a couple of montis and mainly my pink acros which was unusual as most greens and blue, purple fine. They would lose any brown pigment turning fluoro like they were on zeo over several weeks then continue fading and become so pale and then RTN.

The only thing I believe it maybe is the Red Sea Coral pro salt. Ive been using a large bucket and this is the first time Ive had this problem and the first time Ive used this salt for this long.

Suprisingly I havent done my weekley water changes for 3 weeks and just dosed alk, calcium, iodine, Amino acids, vitamin C and cleaned my skimmer and filter socks and one of my montis that was bleaching is regaining flesh and PE as well as some other acros.

I will now be switching salt and see if this maybe the cause, let you know how I go.

Cheers

Nam

[cccapt]

Nam, I don't think the salt has anything to do with it, but I can't say for sure. I used regular Red Sea for many years and when they came out with the Coral Pro version a few years ago I started using that. I probably used 10 buckets or so. The only thing I don't like about it is the calcium is a little too high and alk a little too low. I'm back to regular Red Sea now with lower calcium and a little higher alk. I don't dose anything but ca, alk and mag.

I still don't know what the root cause was, but the affected corals are definitely improving. 1 thing I think for sure made some difference is the lighting is almost doubled in PAR now. I always thought the 175w Iwasaki 15k's were bright, but these 250w XM 10k's make them look like night lights. ;)

[Namn8r]

The thing that comcerned me was is that RedSea salt is natural evaporative salt so Im not sure if they maintain the stable elements.

Ill be back on board using Dupla & Deltec salt brands I think.

Good to hear you are back on track.

Cheers

Nam

[sanababit]

double-triple check your alk

sana

[cccapt]

I took a few top downs....cause there're cool. ;)

The purple is starting to coming back on this 1.
http://www.centercup.net/images/125build/top-nana_4-10.jpg

These next few were not affected at all.
You can see part of the base on this ATL rainbow nasuta. No bleaching.
http://www.centercup.net/images/125build/top-r-nasuta_4-10.jpg

Still good, active growth.
http://www.centercup.net/images/125build/top-b-millie_4-10.jpg

http://www.centercup.net/images/125build/top-g-millie_4-10.jpg

[platax88]

They look great to me! Glad it turned around for you!

[Merfin70]

Hi Larry - It's been a couple of months. Any updates to offer on improvements in color and what you think caused the improvement?

[Stanley-Reefer]

My valida did this and 300, yes 300 aefw came off of a colony the size of two hands.....Weekly turkey basting and a bmf of a leopard wrasse has dented the population.

If there are no fw, Kent Coral Accel 3d in a rowe has brought the colors back to mine if my MB7 and vodka are pulling too much out...

I have a similar coral too:
http://i45.*******.com/1oozkn.jpg