Battle with Dinoflagellates

[asl4me76]

I am getting ready to go on the war path with some Dinoflagellates. I am determine to win the war with them.

Here is my planned of resolution and hopefully I can get some guidance. I do not follow all advice given, I find what works for me and go with it :) I read the thread from DLANDINO ... and I plan on looking at things from Boomer's perspective.

Dave the kalk trick does work at time but not always. As far as different fauna eating Dinos' there are only a couple of know animals that eat it. As far as toxins go it often is not he issue as it is a different set species that does that. Tricks that seem to work well are doing 20% water changes 2 / wk for 3 wk and using a high grade GAC, changing it every 2 days, @ 1/2 - 1 cup / 50 net gals. This is backed up by shutting off the lights for 48 hrs i.e., M-T, each week for 3 weeks. And twice / wk removing the infected equipment for cleaning, using bleach and siphoning off all of the Dino's that you can in the tank during the WC. And cut your feeding in half. Also, use a good GFO for removing phosphates and change it once a week. At the 3 wk end you should have no more Dino issues. Also, continue with the Kalk and high pH.

I will not be cleaning my stuff of with bleach, but rather letting everything soak in some vinegar water for awhile. While cleaning my stuff, I'll also make sure to clean my return pump as well.

For raising pH, I will be using a kalk (limewater) slurpie introduced to my tank nightly. I have a 5L container that I will mix some up in. I am going to use 2 teaspoons of pickling lime in the container and let it drop over night (daily), throughout this process. How high do I want to get my pH up too?

Now, I am getting ready to place an order on Bulk Reef Supply's site for a dual reactor and I'm ordering some GFO and some Carbon.

Here is the carbon I am looking at getting (small particle):
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/1-5-pounds-half-gallon-bulk-lignite-aquarium-carbon-1.html

As for the GFO, I am not quite sure which one would be best .. so if I can get some pointers, I would greatly appreciate it. Which one of the two should I get for the GFO...

Do I want the GFO "Granular" Ferric Oxide or the GFO "Pellets" Ferric Oxide?
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/carbon-and-gfo/bulk-gfo-granular-ferric-oxide-phosphate-remover




Here are my parameters...

3/11/2010
cal - 390
mg - 1290
alk - 9 dKH
amm -0
no3 -0
ph - 8.0
po4 -0
temp - 79.2

Here are some of the photos of the ugliness that I am fighting at the moment.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd89/exhaustedchick/DSC_0046.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd89/exhaustedchick/DSC_0053.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd89/exhaustedchick/DSC_0009.jpg

[plancton]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1620464

[All__talk]

I'm currently battling the Dinos myself, mine are not too, bad but I'm working to get on top of it right away, most of mine is in the sump. I drip Kalk for all my make up water and my PH is always around 8.4 so that should help. I've cut down my light period, both main and sump and am going lights out a couple of days a week, starting last week. I've manually cleared out as much as I can, including scrubbing all the rock in my fruge. I also started GAC last weekend. So far it looks to be getting better, all most none in the tank and much less in the sump.

I've done quite a bit of reading on this and it looks like not doing water changes can be very effective and some research indicates that slightly elevated nitrate levels may help. I skipped the water change this week and will test my levels later in the week (my nitrates normally test 0).

Good luck with the fight.

Gary

[asl4me76]

I'm currently battling the Dinos myself, mine are not too, bad but I'm working to get on top of it right away, most of mine is in the sump. I drip Kalk for all my make up water and my PH is always around 8.4 so that should help. I've cut down my light period, both main and sump and am going lights out a couple of days a week, starting last week. I've manually cleared out as much as I can, including scrubbing all the rock in my fruge. I also started GAC last weekend. So far it looks to be getting better, all most none in the tank and much less in the sump.

I've done quite a bit of reading on this and it looks like not doing water changes can be very effective and some research indicates that slightly elevated nitrate levels may help. I skipped the water change this week and will test my levels later in the week (my nitrates normally test 0).

Good luck with the fight.

Gary

What GAC are you currently using by chance? I have not done a water change in roughly a month or so. I have some water mixed up, but don't plan on using it just yet.

I am getting ready to get some GAC, which is why I asked what GAC. I have never used GAC before, hence the question :).

Best of luck, let me know what is going on with your tank. I'd like to keep up to date on the status of your tank as well, Gary.

Thanks!

[The Saltman]

ASL4me how old is your tank?

[Frick-n-Frags]

ahhh those pictures are so frustrating to see that on your acros. i know your pain.

i'm not even putting sps back in until i'm rid of the dinos myself. sniff, i might not even be ready for the big fragswap in april sniff.:(

:D

also, regarding that waterchanges thing. if i do a good one, like 20%, all kinds of macros sprout. i think whoever mentioned replacing limiting traces for these algae with waterchanges may be onto something. my makeup from the same RO setup , and obviously more gallons over time than WC's, has no impact on making more macros sprout

[asl4me76]

ASL4me how old is your tank?

4 or 5 months old

ahhh those pictures are so frustrating to see that on your acros. i know your pain.

i'm not even putting sps back in until i'm rid of the dinos myself. sniff, i might not even be ready for the big fragswap in april sniff.:(

:D

also, regarding that waterchanges thing. if i do a good one, like 20%, all kinds of macros sprout. i think whoever mentioned replacing limiting traces for these algae with waterchanges may be onto something. my makeup from the same RO setup , and obviously more gallons over time than WC's, has no impact on making more macros sprout

Yea, it's a pain to see it. That's for sure. It's been driving me nuts, but I am well on my way to winning the battle.

[burnah]

i won the battle this way: complete darkness for 5 days, every other day dosing of biodigest (prodibio bacteria), 3 days of light, 3 days of darkness - all of this while dosing vodka.

good luck!

[asl4me76]

i won the battle this way: complete darkness for 5 days, every other day dosing of biodigest (prodibio bacteria), 3 days of light, 3 days of darkness - all of this while dosing vodka.

good luck!

I was dosing vodka, but have quit because the coloration in my sps was bleaching out.

Definitely interesting that the biodigest worked for ya. How's your tank doing now?

[burnah]

never seen them again. i have some slime algae (almost like cyano, but black and not stringy, small patch sitting on a rock) but otherwise i get great coloration. growth could be more... im still dosing vodka and feeding+skimming heavy

[All__talk]

What GAC are you currently using by chance? I have not done a water change in roughly a month or so. I have some water mixed up, but don't plan on using it just yet.

I am getting ready to get some GAC, which is why I asked what GAC. I have never used GAC before, hence the question :).

Best of luck, let me know what is going on with your tank. I'd like to keep up to date on the status of your tank as well, Gary.

Thanks!


I'm currently running some GAC from the local fish store, about 1/8" particle size. Its probably not the highest grade stuff but I wanted to get something up and running quick, I will order in some top shelf stuff soon.

I’m hoping to see some more improvement in the tank when I get home tonight. I work out of town Monday & Tuesday so I haven’t seen the tank since Sunday afternoon. I talked to my wife last night and she said she thought it was looking much cleaner. Doesn’t help that I’ve got a major Diatom bloom going on the sand bed as well, but that seems to be running its course and on the way out. I’m sure the shorter light period is helping there too.

I’ll let you know how it goes.
Gary

[All__talk]

Burnah's comment about skimming reminded me... I read that wet skimming can also help. I cranked mine up a bit wetter a couple weeks back but mine never runs really dry anyway.

Gary

[asl4me76]

I'm currently running some GAC from the local fish store, about 1/8" particle size. Its probably not the highest grade stuff but I wanted to get something up and running quick, I will order in some top shelf stuff soon.

I’m hoping to see some more improvement in the tank when I get home tonight. I work out of town Monday & Tuesday so I haven’t seen the tank since Sunday afternoon. I talked to my wife last night and she said she thought it was looking much cleaner. Doesn’t help that I’ve got a major Diatom bloom going on the sand bed as well, but that seems to be running its course and on the way out. I’m sure the shorter light period is helping there too.

I’ll let you know how it goes.
Gary

Gary -

Let me know how it looks when you get home then. I am sure you are excited to see how things are going in there as well. I hate diatom blooms, I have always been lucky in that aspect.

---

However, on another note I have placed my order with Bulk Reef Supply and I am hoping to get this stuff by the end of this week. Here's what I ordered. I already had a MJ 1200 at the house that I use for water changes that I will be utilizing for the pump on the reactor.

Dual BRS GFO and Carbon Reactor 2041711$48.00
Half Gallon - 1.5 Pounds Premium ROX 0.8 Aquarium Carbon
1 Pound (453 Grams) Bulk GFO "Granular" Ferric Oxide

For other folks out there that have the Dual GFO and Carbon Reactor, where do you set your reactor at? In the sump or outside of the sump? I have to figure out where it is that I am going to set the unit up. I have a guy coming over tomorrow morning sometime to get some corals. After that I am going lights out on the tank. Do I want to go lights out on the sump as well?

Thanks!

[thebanker]

Seems like this is an annual bloom... lots of Dino threads popping up for people in the southern US / Mexico. I have had a small outbreak of them as well. (southern CA)

[asl4me76]

Seems like this is an annual bloom... lots of Dino threads popping up for people in the southern US / Mexico. I have had a small outbreak of them as well. (southern CA)

Maybe it is something in the water! HaHa!:lmao:

[All__talk]

Quick update on my tank...

As of last night the ditom on the sand bed is dying back and both the tank and the sump look better. Sump is much better but still some dinos in the rocks, tank is looking cleaner but I do see some dino growth on some rocks and on the powerheads. I’m going to do another round of lights out (48 hours) and see where things stand.

Gary

[SoulFish]

I got ride of mine with a 3 day tank blackout and adding a GFO reactor with carbon

[asl4me76]

I got the dual reactor today. I am in the process of getting everything all set up and I will post some photos. I got some new rock and I haven't noticed it as much, but ... still going to go through with the plan of attack!

When doing the calculator on BRS, I put in that my tank volume was 40gals. I would rather be under than over on how much media to add to the reactor.

[asl4me76]

The package arrived and has been installed:

Unboxed:
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd89/exhaustedchick/new%20rock%20work%20and%20new%20reactor/DSC_0022.jpg

Put some RO into the sink and let it run through, so that way it is nice and clear! Dust free baby dust free!
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd89/exhaustedchick/new%20rock%20work%20and%20new%20reactor/DSC_0025.jpg

Carbon moving:
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd89/exhaustedchick/new%20rock%20work%20and%20new%20reactor/DSC_0027.jpg

GFO tumbling, although you can't really tell in the photo cause of the mesh in the center..
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd89/exhaustedchick/new%20rock%20work%20and%20new%20reactor/DSC_0028.jpg

Excuse the cluster ****, but it's the room I have to work with.. so here it is all hooked up.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd89/exhaustedchick/new%20rock%20work%20and%20new%20reactor/DSC_0029.jpg

[tufacody]

Here's what ya do. Go buy yourself a 100 or more small hermits, and let them do their thing. Worked for me.

[asl4me76]

Here's what ya do. Go buy yourself a 100 or more small hermits, and let them do their thing. Worked for me.

For Dinos?

[asl4me76]

Ok, so I have had my tank covered for two days now. I had to go down to the petco though to get some air connect kit, because I lost my old ones :(. So, I couldn't drip pickling lime water into the sump to raise the pH. Now my question is that when doing this to raise my pH, do I want to do this nightly every night, or only when I am going lights out for 48 hrs?

[romanr]

Get your water quality under control and go dark for 3 to 5 days. I battled them for months a few years ago. I tried GFO, mega water changes, Carbon, upgraded the skimmer, etc. My water was good but they persisted. Darkness is your friend! Might have to repeat it after a week if they come back. A couple of dark cycles and you'll be good to go.

[asl4me76]

Get your water quality under control and go dark for 3 to 5 days. I battled them for months a few years ago. I tried GFO, mega water changes, Carbon, upgraded the skimmer, etc. My water was good but they persisted. Darkness is your friend! Might have to repeat it after a week if they come back. A couple of dark cycles and you'll be good to go.

All of my parameters and etc., have been in check. They have never changed at all. I will be doing lights out for 48 hr from 12am on Sunday to 12am Monday (going into Tuesday) at 11:59pm. This way it is a full 48 hr period.

I plan on keeping an eye on all of the carbon and seeing if I need to change any of it out and etc.

Thanks for the encouragement though!

[asl4me76]

So last night, at roughly midnight I had removed the sheet off of the tank. I took my nice little flash light and flashed it in the tank to see if I could see anything as far as dinos went. Great news, nothing. However, that doesn't mean they still aren't there. I am still going to move forward with treating my tank for approximately a month for the dinos, even if I do not see any of them in the water column. I haven't turned the pumps off to see if any were floating as of yet, because I have to get ready to head into work. Tomorrow though, tomorrow .. as it is my day off.

[All__talk]

Update on my tank...

After the second round of 48 hours lights out the dinos are almost gone, sump looks clear and just a little on the powerheads and the back wall of the DT where the return blows in (dinos seem to like high flow). I'm running 6 hours of main lights and 9 hours of actinic in the DT and 2 hours in the fruge (trying to keep the chaeto green). Still running high PH (always do with the kalk for makeup), GAC and no water changes. If the dinos dont continue to subside I will do another round of lights out.

Gary

[asl4me76]

Update on my tank...

After the second round of 48 hours lights out the dinos are almost gone, sump looks clear and just a little on the powerheads and the back wall of the DT where the return blows in (dinos seem to like high flow). I'm running 6 hours of main lights and 9 hours of actinic in the DT and 2 hours in the fruge (trying to keep the chaeto green). Still running high PH (always do with the kalk for makeup), GAC and no water changes. If the dinos dont continue to subside I will do another round of lights out.

Gary

Great to hear it, Gary.

Here is my progress. I got out of work early today, came home .. lights were on (thanks to the wifey who plugged them back in as they were on timers). I turned off the pumps for roughly 20 minutes, and I haven't seen any dinos floating in the tank at all. Including on the power heads! Yay.

Now, I have not been dosing my kalk slurpie at night, because well I didn't have any air valves for dosing (misplaced them), so I had to stop at petco to get some on my way home. Haven't hooked it up since. But, starting tonight, it will be dripped nightly.

As for the reactor. Haha ... a fellow reefer pointed out to me I set the carbon up wrong. The GAC should be at the top of the reactor, and if you look at my photos it is at the bottom. I will be fixing that tonight after my photography class.

I have also had my skimmer running (but not collecting any skimmate) due to an introduction in new rock. This made my skimmer go nuts as you all can imagine. So, tonight, I plan on dialing the skimmer back in. Letting the tank go another 5 days with lights on. Going lights out at 12:01am, Sunday and turning the lights back on for Tuesday (evening).

My lighting schedule was changed to where my T5's come on at 3:00pm, MH at 5:00pm, MH off at 10:00 and my T5's off at 12:00am. This way, I am getting my full cycle in.

[StrongMN]

Is there any correlation between Dinos growing and cyano? I am just starting out and think I got some bad RODI water from a fish store and have a bloom of both going right now. Going to get some RODI water from a guy with his own unit I know and try the lights out for 2 days. Any other suggestions since you are battling roughly the same thing?

-StrongMN

[asl4me76]

Is there any correlation between Dinos growing and cyano? I am just starting out and think I got some bad RODI water from a fish store and have a bloom of both going right now. Going to get some RODI water from a guy with his own unit I know and try the lights out for 2 days. Any other suggestions since you are battling roughly the same thing?

-StrongMN

What are your water parameters? Have you tested your water? Are you done cycling?

You may be going through some normal phases if you are just starting out. Try to get some photos and post 'em up here for us to see, so we can confirm what it is that you are indeed fighting. It can sometimes be easy to confuse the two. Dinos, if they are gathering on your sand ... can look like cyano.

Could there be a correlation? Possibly. As for cyano, how old are your bulbs? How much flow do you have going on? How big is your tank? How old is your tank? Generally you will see cyano build up where there are low areas of flow moving through vs you won't see any that is getting blasted directly with the power head (for example).

A good way to determine if you have dino's, is to turn off all of your circulation .. let it sit for 20/30 minutes. If you have dino's, you very well may start to see a brown looking film floating in the water column as though it is suspended. Kind of like water does with oil .. just floats.

As for the RODI that you are getting, what is the TDS readings on it. IMHO, you are better off just purchasing a new RODI unit from Air, Water & Ice or Bulk Reef Supply. This way, you are able to get a nice TDS meter that can be dual lined, so you can get readings on incoming and outgoing. This will also let you know when a good time is for you to change out your DI Resin and your filters.

[asl4me76]

Just as an update to my battle with the dino's. I have only gone lights out once, and that seems to have done the trick for now. I will be keeping a close eye on things to see if anymore dino's appear, but .. for now it appears that there are none! I have turned off my circulation pumps twice now at various times through this week, and all seems to be well. Even my frag rack is the eggshell white it should be, vs being covered in the junk. I think I have made some success.

The dual reactor from BRS is up and running on my tank as well, got that running this past weekend. All seems to be happy in the world of my tank!

[romanr]

That's great! Don't hessitate to do another round of darkness if they come back. Sometimes it does take a couple of dark periods to nail them.

I really think it's water quality issues that bring them on but once they take root, it's very hard to get rid of them even after making the water crystal clean again. The lights out seems to be a very effective way to make them go away.

[Kieth71]

I have been trying to get rid of them in my tank as well.Did you just mix 2 tsp of kalk with 1 gallon of water and drip overnight?I have been doing this for a week and am about to try going dark as well.Did you skip water changes during all this?This stuff is very frustrating for sure and i will be quite happy if i can get it out of my tank.

[asl4me76]

I have been trying to get rid of them in my tank as well.Did you just mix 2 tsp of kalk with 1 gallon of water and drip overnight?I have been doing this for a week and am about to try going dark as well.Did you skip water changes during all this?This stuff is very frustrating for sure and i will be quite happy if i can get it out of my tank.

Dinoflagellates eat off of the silicates in the new water that you are putting in your tank. Which is why it is recommended to stop with all water. They also feed off of carbon and a light source. Which is why it is recommended to do lights out for 48-72 hrs once per week until you get rid of them.

I have not done water changes, until I could figure out what it was I had in my tank. I choose that route, because I didn't know what I was dealing with for one, but didn't want to feed it either. I keep a close level on my water parameters and all is good anyways. I also do monthly water changes, vs. weekly water changes. This works for me, but what works for you may be different.

To answer your question, no I did not do a kalk drip. I have a dual reactor with carbon and GFO. I also dose 2part from BRS.

[asl4me76]

On another note .. I noticed a little bit of dinos that were attached to a few tips on a few SPS. Even though, when I turned my power heads off and got nothing ... a little bit was on the tips of a few corals. I am going to nip this in the bud, by doing another round of 48 hr lights off/sheet over the tank period. I want to ensure that I get everything in one shot.

I have not done a water change in roughly a month. I won't be doing one for awhile longer, just to make sure that I have everything gone and I can feel 100% confident that it is not coming back. In the mean time, I am also keeping an eye on my water parameters and will be testing this Thursday (as my lights and tank are covered currently).

I do have a photo of the tank with all of my powerheads turned off and as you can see .. there are no dinos floating in the water column.

*** Disclaimer ... I haven't finished mounting all my stuff in their homes ... nor have I found a home for a lot of the stuff on the sand bed, so yes .. it's a busy tank currently. ***
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd89/exhaustedchick/fulltankshot.jpg

[romanr]

No more frags for you!

[asl4me76]

No more frags for you!

HAHA .. right! I have enough frags for you too.. want some?? Get in the car and drive to me!

[ohclereef01]

HELLOOO FRAGS!!! That will be a fun project. Good to read a thread with people having the same issues I am at this time. I'm hooking up my carbon & gfo reactors this weekend though it doesn't seem like they will necessarily do much to combat the issue. It is a new tank so they *may* just go away? .. 6weeks today! .. nothing on the sand only on the rock, stringy-ish / fluff brown more than red.

[richierich2000]

I have Dinoflagellates too :( so I have been reading your post I have a couple ? I have mostly sps and clams

lights out for 48h did hurt the sps?
did you feed your fish everyday?
how so you feed you fish in the dark?
do you think it will hurt the clams?

[richierich2000]

sorry how high did you raise you dkh to get you ph up to 4.5?

[asl4me76]

I have Dinoflagellates too :( so I have been reading your post I have a couple ? I have mostly sps and clams

lights out for 48h did hurt the sps?
did you feed your fish everyday?
how so you feed you fish in the dark?
do you think it will hurt the clams?

Great questions to ask. No, it wont hurt your SPS or your clams. No, I don't feed my fish everyday. Now, sometimes when I feed, I may feed the oyster feast or the phyto feast at night, for the corals. Otherwise, it's all when lights are on.

Here's my feeding schedule:

Day 1: Oyster Feast
Day 2: Arctic Pods
Day 3: Phyto Feast
Day 4: 1 full cube of mysis/brine mixed with Cyclop-Eeze
Day 5: nothing

Then start over. Sometimes I may go up to 3 days without feeding.

[240gallons]

14 months and several hunderd dollars later.......Dont try to do this the easy way!

Get some NEW cured LR, a rubbermaid, and chip off all of your corals. Use the rubbermaid as your display.

Cover your main tank for 6 weeks and just sit back and know dinos will be gone.

Try it for a shorter peroid if you want but its not worth pulling everything out again