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View Full Version : Petco Picasso "mislabel" thread


bues0022
03/22/2010, 07:06 AM
I've been noticing a surprising number of threads lately with the basic fact being "I just picked up a pair of picasso percs from petco for $10-$15/ea". For this to happen once seems rare, but it's not impossible for fish to get mislabeled, right? However, in the past few weeks there have been a lot more of these threads popping up. Also, if you think about it, the people on this forum are actually a minority of the number of people keeping SW aquariums, so think about how much this phenomenon has happened that has been going "unreported" to us.

This leads to the question: How is all of this happening?

I have several theories (not all my own, you know who you are who suggested these to me):

1) store-specific mislabeling. This one seems hard to swallow because this would require a large number of individual events in which a store employee placed what should be ORA picassos into a tank with much cheaper fish. OR, when placed in own tank the label was incorrectly priced. If this happened once, I can stomach this problem, but many times duplicated around the country? It not only goes to one person per store, but all the other employees/managers at the stores have the opportunity to see the price problem and correct it...yet this doesn't seem to be happening.

2)Franchise-wide price fixing. This could be considerably more possible. Petco as a corporation has decided to (in at least some certain markets) drop the price of very fancy clownfish in an attempt to gain back some customers. Getting a smoking good deal on a $100+ fish could offset greatly the terrible reputation of a fish-killing entity. Getting a customer in the door is huge to s store. Once there, the customer is much more likely to purchase additional fish, dry goods, frozen foods etc. (i.e. places where prices haven't been slashed). Even still, wholesale on a grade A picasso is somewhere around $45, so that would mean Petco would be loosing ~$30 per fish (yes, some assumptions are used here). That is a LOT of frozen brine shrimp to recover this much lost money and turn a profit.

3) Incompetent worker at ORA. It is entirely possible for there to be a new, or uncaring, or just plain incompetent worker at ORA that is packaging the wrong fish. An order comes in for percs, and they go to the nearest perc tank and put fish in a bag - not caring if they are true percs or picassos. They get sent off to the store where they don't care about attempting to go through the red tape to either send them back for the right thing (who sends back something much better than they were supposed to get?) or change the price (might even have to go up to corporate because of inventory change stuff). Therefore, they get put in the tank just like a perc and just figure some lucky customer gets away with a really good fish at a GREAT price.

4) ORA is knowingly messing with the supply chain. Thes last two possibilities are much more of a conspiracy-theory, so bear with my craziness. ORA has basically perfected the picasso clownfish by now. After multiple generations they have so many breeding pairs of picassos throwing so many picassos their supply is way up, yet demand stays the same. Fish aren't like boxes, and take money to keep "in stock" through food, water changes etc. They are accumulating a surplus of fish and don't know what to do. They are turning into the DeBeers of the fish world by massing all these picasso fish. Are they leaking a few out here and there to keep interest high? Putting some out the door and a few people "get lucky" would up interest in them. Think of this. You get lucky and pick up a pair for $20. Your buddy also wants a pair once seeing yours. He looks all over and can't find any but to have his LFS order a pair from ORA. That is a sale ORA wouldn't have had unless they "brought the expensive fish to the masses" through this "leaking" method.

5) OR, is ORA putting so many picassos out there at such cheap prices in an attempt to flush out all the other breeders? By dropping prices so drastically, who would pay $200 for a pair when you can go to petco and get a pair for $20? This means that most other breeders won't be able to turn a profit by raising picasso clownfish anymore and will give it up, leaving ORA to be the sole provider of "fancy" clownfish to the public. They will then be able to price fix to their desire (DeBeers theory again in a way), and even though there was a short stint of cheap picasso clowns, the end result is a more expensive market.


I'm really hoping this is just an innocent mislabeling on the part of several employees at petco and I'm just being more than a little paranoid to report the other cases. However, don't you think it's more than odd to see so many good fish sell for an order-of-magnitude less than they should?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1818757
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1812617

Reefvette
03/22/2010, 07:14 AM
Union NJ petco had a pair this weekend.

flameangel9
03/22/2010, 08:20 AM
IMO Its not mislabeling, they came to my local fish store too(not a petco)
spoke with the owner. The store knew what they were and sold them for $15 anyways because they paid so little. They were definetely sold to the store labeled as ocellaris. These fish aren't grade A and only a small percentage were close to grade B. I think that ORA with they're high standards couldn't sell them as B's and had so many they emptied the tanks. They labeled them as Ocellaris so as not to effect the Picasso market. Hoping that we would think it was mislabeling, or it would go for the most part unnoticed. My 2 cents.

bues0022
03/22/2010, 09:09 AM
I'm a little confused, because you mention that they were sold to the store as ocellaris - this would, in fact, then be a mislabeling by ORA since picasso is a percula, not ocellaris. Doesn't ORA also sell semi-picasso for those fish that don't make the B-grade picasso? I was under the impression that is where they dump them at. Perhaps with the picasso buzz-word people assume they are going to be expensive, and now ORA has thousands of semi-picassos that they can't move and hence the mislabeling and shippment. But that still doesn't clear up why they were sold to your LFS as ocellaris, that's the wrong species.

flameangel9
03/22/2010, 09:20 AM
I thought you were suggesting that petco was mislabeling them. ORA definetely mislabled them. Semi Picasso are grade B, thus the "semi". There is no grade C these are culls. The LFS knew they were percula and sold them as Ocellaris anyways. To be honest they label thier tanks with the shipment list in hand, prior to fish being put in the tanks. Thats procedure at my LFS.
Only after did they realize they weren't Ocellaris. At which point they left the price and species labeling alone.

grinner30
03/22/2010, 09:37 AM
As I understand from an employee with Petco, West Coast Marine is the supplier for Petco now. They have been shipping these picassos marked Mis-bar False percs. This is the label on the bags. Who knows, maybe another group is trying to dislodge ORA.

Pinkskunk
03/22/2010, 09:44 AM
why do anyone care if these were mislabel or not? if you find it, buy it. who cares? what r u gonna do? tell the owner to increase the price b/c it's Picasso? or call up ORA and tell them to correct their pricing?

i just dont understand the hipe.............

WHO CARES, JUST BUY THEM AND MOVE ON.

why spend the time to disect what is really happening?

dc
03/22/2010, 09:48 AM
Let's discuss politely. ;)

Maybe it's just a saturation of the market. I was in a Petco in Utah this week and I looked, but they didn't have any there.

marclwheeler
03/22/2010, 09:53 AM
I agree ... I seen these in IA at a petco... they are a low quality picasso at best... either way... I almost bought a pair... choose not to cause i wanted the best... OF COURSE!...

at any rate, petco's policy is what ever it comes in as is what it get sold as... I picked up a red sea tang(purple tang) for only $30 for this policy... if it works in your favor great... sometimes they will mark down the price if it isn't in your favor though... that depends on your petco though...

pink skunk your right just buy them and be happy... or don't ...either way i don't care i will buy a higher quality myself...

flameangel9
03/22/2010, 09:56 AM
why do anyone care if these were mislabel or not? if you find it, buy it. who cares? what r u gonna do? tell the owner to increase the price b/c it's Picasso? or call up ORA and tell them to correct their pricing?

i just dont understand the hipe.............

WHO CARES, JUST BUY THEM AND MOVE ON.

why spend the time to disect what is really happening?

Try the other side of the bed the one your on isn't working out.:fun2:

MarinaP
03/22/2010, 09:57 AM
I am not sure why people are discussing price policy of a supplier/vendor here. Who, except for the basement breeders trying to make a few bucks on "designer" clowns, would care?

marclwheeler
03/22/2010, 10:03 AM
dc your right we all need to remember we that there are different levels of hobbiest here...

bues0022
03/22/2010, 10:22 AM
WOW! I leave the thread for a few hours and people come unhinged. I was merely trying to start a discussion and find out what others' experiences were and try to see where things were at in the hobby. I completely agree, if you find them and like them, then buy them. However, I find that by finding out the root of the issue is more satisfying than blindly following the leader and accepting unknown reasons. If you see picassos at a petco or LFS mismarked, is it worth the impulse buy? what is the relative frequency this happens? Knowing the root cause can hopefully help everyone make more informed decisions.

I am not sure why people are discussing price policy of a supplier/vendor here. Who, except for the basement breeders trying to make a few bucks on "designer" clowns, would care?
EVERYONE! Every breeder small and large. Why else would ORA be selling picassos for any more $$ than regular true percs? BTW, it would also be nice to know that "basement breeders" actually fulfill a large amount of clowns in the trade. Any extra clowns that are bred are that many less fish taken from the wild.

arioch
03/22/2010, 10:25 AM
Wait, are these actually picasso perculas or are they ocellaris?

Petcos I've been to around here (2 or 3 of them in the area, anyway) I've seen them label a tank of clowns as "Percula clownfish" yet they supply a scientific name of "Amphiprion ocellaris". As far as I can tell they are all ocellaris.

Are they now getting actual picasso percs and selling them as ocellaris? The black banding around the pair in the second thread make them look to me like ocellaris clowns.

Pinkskunk
03/22/2010, 10:31 AM
i tried all 4 sides of the bed and yet still wake up with the same opinion, and that is: Who cares?

:rolleye1:

note to self: i need to stop participating in threads like these or i am becoming one of you :eek1:



Try the other side of the bed the one your on isn't working out.:fun2:

MarinaP
03/22/2010, 10:33 AM
Knowing the root cause can hopefully help everyone make more informed decisions.


Why did not you ask ORA directly about the root cause instead of throwing wild guesses and conspiracy theories here?

BTW, it would also be nice to know that "basement breeders" actually fulfill a large amount of clowns in the trade. [/bold]

Care to share the source of this information, preferably with numbers showing what percentage of the market is taken by the basement breeders?

flameangel9
03/22/2010, 10:45 AM
note to self: i need to stop participating in threads like these or i am becoming one of you :eek1:

Reach for the sky, one moment I'll get you a ladder.

Jacwil
03/22/2010, 10:51 AM
Ha! C'mon folks...if you don't like the thread move on and don't read it.

I think the OP has some interesting ideas. I just know one thing, I don't step in that place unless I need something for the "other" animals in the house.

DeathWish302
03/22/2010, 11:37 AM
i tried all 4 sides of the bed and yet still wake up with the same opinion, and that is: Who cares?

:rolleye1:

note to self: i need to stop participating in threads like these or i am becoming one of you :eek1:

Why comment if your not interested...?:crazy1:

As for the Petco clowns..... I too was sucked into this phenomenon. Went to Petco on Sun and was completely disgusted at the two Clarkiis' picking at the half eaten $0.50 piece-sized tang. Regardless of reasoning for this large occurrence of 'Picasso-like' clowns, I WILL NOT give business to a store that has this poor of conditions. This will only further their reign of terror on our aquatic friends. I'll stickt to the underground basement breeders when at all possible.

JMO

lo7100
03/22/2010, 12:25 PM
If you look at the picture of the fishes that user posted up, you will see that they are not even look like a grade B. I believe ORA just sell them as regular b/c they don't make the cut of grade B. Anyway, they look good though.

footballdude2k3
03/22/2010, 01:01 PM
i got 2 of them from petco this weekend, if you look at my build thread i put pictures on, i think they look great. i would post them here but i am at work and do not have access to my pictures

melanotaenia
03/22/2010, 02:43 PM
It would be nice if they began to filter in from other vendors, so as to take ORA off their high horse for charging obscene amounts of money for their Picasso and Snowflake/Platinum, of whatever you want to call them.

I would like to see the same happen with the SPS frags; the prices that ORA charges are astronomical

Rhizo
03/22/2010, 03:13 PM
i tried all 4 sides of the bed and yet still wake up with the same opinion, and that is: Who cares?

:rolleye1:

note to self: i need to stop participating in threads like these or i am becoming one of you :eek1:

Apparently you seem to care. You keep coming back to this thread. Get the point from DC... just go away... :hammer:

Back to the thread,

flush out all the other breeders? By dropping prices so drastically, who would pay $200 for a pair when you can go to petco and get a pair for $20?

I would say this is dead on. I for one support them doing this! Too many breeders who do some shady, shady, and I mean shady practices....

cdsheid
03/22/2010, 03:33 PM
Im sure a couple of you may of seen my posts about getting this deal. I have seen other local lfs sell similar ones the ones some people on her say dont make the cut for 175.00 and you cant go look at petco one day then come back to the thread and say you saw them and they dont make the cut. I bought two and one of them had a considerable amount of white. So for me that one was a great buy. The other purchase was probably one that wouldnt make the cut with ora. But its still a unique pattern and a very nice fish. Everyone needs to get off reef central for a little while and get a life it sounds like. Cause like other stated people are really just sitting at home disecting this. Go get some and give your fingers a rest. :lolspin:

tufacody
03/22/2010, 04:04 PM
i tried all 4 sides of the bed and yet still wake up with the same opinion, and that is: Who cares?

:rolleye1:

note to self: i need to stop participating in threads like these or i am becoming one of you :eek1:


I care. I just about care for everything in this hobby, and I find this topic very interesting. I also feel basement breeders are very good for this hobby. I think the OP raises some interesting thoughts worthy of consideration.

Given the general neglect of PetCo stores, I'd be very surprised if they hatched any sort of scheme here. The animals are mere commodities, and the profit margin doesn't have to be huge for them. I think ORA is probably the source of these prices, and I tend to buy into the idea that only a Petco would let them go at these prices. Any competant LFS would know what they are and charge accordingly. Not so a PetCo. I'm guessing ORA knew that these should-be culls were still valuable, and did not want to tarnish the ORA reputation further with inferior animals. So this is the result.

DeathWish302
03/22/2010, 04:21 PM
Too many breeders who do some shady, shady, and I mean shady practices....

How 'many' breeders do you know or have talked to that are doing these 'shady' practices? Just b/c you read about a few irresponsible lackys' on the net doesn't mean the bulk are out for every nickel with no care of quality and how they obtain it!

Watch the toes you step on with those comments next time buster!:fun2:

clowns101
03/22/2010, 04:30 PM
I care. I just about care for everything in this hobby, and I find this topic very interesting. I also feel basement breeders are very good for this hobby. I think the OP raises some interesting thoughts worthy of consideration.

Given the general neglect of PetCo stores, I'd be very surprised if they hatched any sort of scheme here. The animals are mere commodities, and the profit margin doesn't have to be huge for them. I think ORA is probably the source of these prices, and I tend to buy into the idea that only a Petco would let them go at these prices. Any competant LFS would know what they are and charge accordingly. Not so a PetCo. I'm guessing ORA knew that these should-be culls were still valuable, and did not want to tarnish the ORA reputation further with inferior animals. So this is the result.

WOW!ORA did not send fish knowing they were valuble.ORA didnt even send "piccaso" clowns.I talked with a worker today and he had sent them percula clowns that were mis-bars.Plus how do we even know they were "ORA picassos"?Petco dosent buy much from ORA and ORA dsent sell much to Petco.And to say that ORA is sending fish that should be culled and then saying they have value is just backwards and wouldnt be done.ORA dosent send fish like that to Petco because:

1)Petco doset have a market for these fish.

2)Why dosent Petco have a market for these fish?
People who know the real true Petcos and watched investagation clips of Petco wouldnt buy fish from them even if they were cheap.

I think this topic has been kinda blown out of the water.Like I said "WE DONT EVEN KNOW IF THESE FISH ARE FROM ORA".And from my experince in the hobby and what I have been told by a worker of ORA,these fish more than likely arent even ORA.

And the idea that "ORA is selling high end fish to put out other breeders" is just stupid!ORA would be basicly destroying the market for these fish and if they done that what would happen to ORA?I know for sure that ORA's "picassos" wouldnt have the value of that they hav enow.And plus,how many fish would have to be sold to put out another breeder?By the time they have sold enough fish to put out another breeder,ever one would have
"picasso clowns" and there wouldnt even be market for them!

I think we ALL need to think logicly about this situation and think about the effects of what would happen if ORA was going to "put out the breeders"!

Im sorry for getting all up-hipe about this but 1/2 of the information said befoe me was "out of the wack"!

Thanks,
Austin/clowns101

grinner30
03/22/2010, 04:39 PM
LOL every thing is a conspiracy! Just be happy you got the fish for cheap!

tufacody
03/22/2010, 06:03 PM
Dude, we are all just speculating here.

1)Petco has a market for every fish or they wouldn't sell them
2)And yet here we are with people posting everyday about Petco purchases
3)Many people are more than happy to buy culls in the hope they will pass on the genetic trait, and often times deformities are not readily visible until the fish has grown out a little. It makes perfect sense to me that imperfect fish in a breed like Picassos would be culled by some vendors and sold as lower grades by other.

With that said, I really have no clue if ORA is doing this at all. I simply agree that the OP has put forth an interesting theory. I agree though that I should have just kept my mouth shut on a board like this. Its also too easy to tarnish reputations with speculation.

Rhizo
03/22/2010, 06:22 PM
How 'many' breeders do you know or have talked to that are doing these 'shady' practices? Just b/c you read about a few irresponsible lackys' on the net doesn't mean the bulk are out for every nickel with no care of quality and how they obtain it!

Watch the toes you step on with those comments next time buster!:fun2:

I know more than a few breeders that fall into this criteria. I guess just to suit your needs I should rant on them? Seems like your cherry was pretty exited over my post

I guess some people have a little more manners than some folks here ... ehh... forum posting sure has its percs :lmao:

HKS
03/22/2010, 07:31 PM
Dude, we are all just speculating here.

1)Petco has a market for every fish or they wouldn't sell them
2)And yet here we are with people posting everyday about Petco purchases
3)Many people are more than happy to buy culls in the hope they will pass on the genetic trait, and often times deformities are not readily visible until the fish has grown out a little. It makes perfect sense to me that imperfect fish in a breed like Picassos would be culled by some vendors and sold as lower grades by other.


I totally agree. I never got too excited over these showing up in Petco because they looked like C grade picassos which are basically misbars. That's not to say that someone couldn't buy a whole bunch for breeding stock and make money down the road on the offspring. I am curious though to see how much black these mature ones will exhibit.

savageAJC
03/22/2010, 10:52 PM
well misbar over plain ol jane bars ill take the misbars! hah but seriously, I like them, to each his own. Most other LFS's would charge extra for them, one LFS in my area has "ORA
grade B picassos" for $150 and the ones from Petco look 20x better.
All in all wherever Petco got them from and why they got them who cares im just happy they have 'em =) People are charging waaayy to much for these fish. its ridiculous.

DeathWish302
03/23/2010, 08:12 AM
I know more than a few breeders that fall into this criteria. I guess just to suit your needs I should rant on them? Seems like your cherry was pretty exited over my post

I guess some people have a little more manners than some folks here ... ehh... forum posting sure has its percs :lmao:

I'm not asking for special treatment, just making it known that not all underground breeders are irresponsible. I might not have the big dollar facility of ORA, but make do with what I have for a setup while ethicly running the system.

As for manners, some tools just don't get it.... Nuff said:dance:

Amoore311
03/23/2010, 08:32 AM
This thread is funny lol. From conspiracy theories, to people waking up on the wrong side of the bed, etc.


#1 Whoever said ORA doesn't sell much to Petco is sadly mistaken. Petco is ORA's largest customer. Pretty much every captive bred fish Petco sells is from ORA.

#2 ORA is a business first, remember this. If they can make a few bucks on clowns that would otherwise be culled (yielding $0 or negative returns), they are going to.

Rhizo
03/23/2010, 10:36 AM
just making it known that not all underground breeders are irresponsible

As for manners, some tools just don't get it.... Nuff said:dance:

Too many breeders who do some shady, shady, and I mean shady practices....

I don't see how Too many = All breeders? Did I miss something? Illiteracy is something you need to work on ;)

Rhizo
03/23/2010, 10:43 AM
#2 ORA is a business first, remember this. If they can make a few bucks on clowns that would otherwise be culled (yielding $0 or negative returns), they are going to.

Despite trying to make a buck. ORA actually tries to provide consumers with quality ornamental clowns. The mislabel of a clown is rare, if ever? That we perceive Petco to mislabel is another story. Credit needs to be given where it is due. :)

Amoore311
03/23/2010, 11:44 AM
The mislabel of a clown is rare, if ever? That we perceive Petco to mislabel is another story. Credit needs to be given where it is due.

I don't see why anyone cares that an $18 clown fish is mislabeled. Petco nor ORA gains anything by mislabeling the fish lol.

I may be a bit confused, but where are you going with this exactly?

davocean
03/23/2010, 02:51 PM
You know, I was kinda trippin on all the recent posts myself.
I have to wonder how many people have gone to Petco lately that normally would not have.

Dun Properly
03/23/2010, 03:02 PM
You know, I was kinda trippin on all the recent posts myself.
I have to wonder how many people have gone to Petco lately that normally would not have.

I know I will be swinging by there in the next couple of days. I usually don't give them a second thought. If this WAS conspiracy by Petco, then mission accomplished!:)

returnofsid
03/23/2010, 03:34 PM
You know, I was kinda trippin on all the recent posts myself.
I have to wonder how many people have gone to Petco lately that normally would not have.

I'll admit, I went yesterday, based on this thread, and others like it, and it ended in DISASTER. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1819980

unbreakable
03/23/2010, 04:58 PM
Not only that, but a person told me that the Petco had some purple tangs for 30 dollars.... my LFS sells some small ones for $177 dollars

arioch
03/23/2010, 05:14 PM
I saw a coral beauty dwarf angel with what looks like marine ich, didn't look closer, so I'm staying away from my petcos for the foreseeable future :)

They do sell juvenile (1-2") tangs for around $30-$40 though, and if you find one for that much, hey!

cmac23
03/23/2010, 08:21 PM
most fish there do have ich. but this thread is too funny

nj_evoIXgsr
03/23/2010, 08:43 PM
i tried to get lucky and NOPE. most salt tanks were empty but no livestock looked like they had ich. a tang, two looked like dragon wrasses???, 1 false perc, goby......the price for the tang was 37.99 and i know i've seen it at my lfs selling for close to double that price. if you can catch it once they stock it and QT. then i don't see a problem.

Dun Properly
03/24/2010, 06:52 AM
I'm not defending Petco here because my local Petco store usually has some pretty poor looking tanks, but the manager did tell me that I could request a fish and pick it up when it is delivered. That way it never enters their tanks. Just sayin.

Oh, and there were no Picasso's at mine.

MarineFlake
03/24/2010, 09:55 AM
IMO, the only difference between Petco and the businesses that sell to and comprise our 'LFS' is that Petco is on display for everyone to pick apart. I suspect that we would all be shocked by the conditions and loss/lack of care at all of the distribution points. We would all like to think, because it makes us feel better, that our favorite online store or LFS is doing all the right things but the reality of running a business says otherwise. Are we to think the LFS or distributors or collectors all change their MH lighting every 12 months or their PC bulbs every 6 months? Do we *really* believe that the animals are feed at an exact schedule with an apropriate diet as defined by each individual animals requirements? If we do, we are fools. Granted its not an excuse for Petco or any other of the *many* stores I have personally visited to provide less than survivable conditions, but in reality, fish don't live in a store or your house, they come from nature. Turns out filling nature's shoes, so to speak, is a tough job just for what we have. How can we persecute others with a 100 times more responsibility much less single out any one of them if only because they are in the public eye. Sometimes the enemy you know is better. ; )

Amoore311
03/24/2010, 11:19 AM
In response to the post above:

There's a big difference between a responsible pet store and your typical Petco.

First off, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone at Petco that knows a thing about salt water fish. It's an expensive hobby to be in, and Petco doesn't pay anyone who really knows what they are doing enough to actually want to work their. Have you ever seen what kind of systems petco run behind the scenes?

Good local stores are run by hobbyists. There's a good chance the owner, at least, knows what the heck they are talking about. 1 person out of 3-4 might not be ideal, but it is better than 0 people.


Not changing a metal halide bulb or pc bulb isn't going to detrimentally affect corals or fish. Yeah they might brown out a little, but they will still be healthy if the tank is kept in check.


Do we *really* believe that the animals are feed at an exact schedule with an apropriate diet as defined by each individual animals requirements? If we do, we are fools.

I kind of chuckled at this. I have 3 local stores close enough to drive. 2 of the 3 do exactly what's in the quote. The fish don't have a hard set feeding schedule, nor should they. But they are fed appropriate foods (Greens, NLS Pellets, Mysis for the majority). The 3rd store is a piece of crap, always has little/no livestock, and is about to go out of business.


You're selling quality lfs short I think. Then again, you may just have a ton of crappy ones in your area I suppose.

I expect a LFS to provide a suitable SHORT TERM environment for their livestock. I expect that the stuff they bring in can survive in said environment, not necessarily thrive (that would be a little far fetched).

davocean
03/24/2010, 08:23 PM
There was move by Petco a year or so ago where certain stores did up their SW game, but these were select stores, so between that, and hit and miss on which Petco, and who's in charge of that Petco makes me not bundle them as a whole anymore.
Some are better than others.
Also, there really is a big difference in collection practices between suppliers.
But really, the safest bet is to just QT every fish anyway.

nj_evoIXgsr
03/24/2010, 09:05 PM
found a few at petco and they looked like they were mislabeled for a reason. they weren't the nicest looking fish or definitely wouldn't have won a beauty clown fish contest. understood why they didn't make the cut from ORA.

but yes, they seem to be available. some may get luckier than the other. please post pics if you buy them!!!!

Fishinboy84
03/25/2010, 11:30 AM
this isnt a cheap hobby. if i found a deal i would jump on it, i wouldnt care who or what store. i think it is all in what you want.. but i would watch out for ich or somehting on a fish that is that cheap. it could be that price for a reason

Roadkillstewie
03/26/2010, 06:44 AM
First off, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone at Petco that knows a thing about salt water fish. It's an expensive hobby to be in, and Petco doesn't pay anyone who really knows what they are doing enough to actually want to work their. Have you ever seen what kind of systems petco run behind the scenes?

Interestingly enough, the local petco has 2 guys that formerly worked at my only 'true' LFS that handled saltwater. The 'lfs' went under with the hurricanes an they had to find employment somewhere.

That being said, any real 'problems' petco's have start at a corporate level... want change then start addressing them and not the poor folx in the store. :-) The local one, put in their 'special order' (3x normal order size) out of that order they recieved... 1 condy & 6 damsels.

GregsReef28
04/02/2010, 06:53 PM
There was move by Petco a year or so ago where certain stores did up their SW game, but these were select stores, so between that, and hit and miss on which Petco, and who's in charge of that Petco makes me not bundle them as a whole anymore.
Some are better than others.
Also, there really is a big difference in collection practices between suppliers.
But really, the safest bet is to just QT every fish anyway.

It is called the magnet program. Only 24 of over 1000 stores are part of it. These stores have a different primary supplier for marine fish, a frag tank, and most hav a display tank as well. Also an expanded assortment of drygoods. These magnet stores are held to a higher standard and more is expected from there aquatics department.
As much as everyone wants to bash Petco, does anyone ever bash the vendors that sell to them? Would ORA be doing as well as they are if they didn't sell to Petco? Isn't Petco, according to most a terrible fish store? So I guess that would make ORA terrible as well correct?

But back to the topic at hand. Yes the Petcos that receive there clowns from ORA(not all do)were receiving a kind of "semi-picasso" clown as a regular $18.99 clown. They went quick. Prob as stated it had to do with ORA getting rid of a bunch of fish that were stuck in limbo between classes and grades. And the Petcos that are part of this magnet program can get true picasso clowns and they sell them for 69.99 each. Not bad. If anyone has not been into a Petco store that is part of the "Magnet Program" I urge you to do so and you will be pleasantly surprised.

GregsReef28
04/02/2010, 06:57 PM
WOW!ORA did not send fish knowing they were valuble.ORA didnt even send "piccaso" clowns.I talked with a worker today and he had sent them percula clowns that were mis-bars.Plus how do we even know they were "ORA picassos"?Petco dosent buy much from ORA and ORA dsent sell much to Petco.And to say that ORA is sending fish that should be culled and then saying they have value is just backwards and wouldnt be done.ORA dosent send fish like that to Petco because:

1)Petco doset have a market for these fish.

2)Why dosent Petco have a market for these fish?
People who know the real true Petcos and watched investagation clips of Petco wouldnt buy fish from them even if they were cheap.

I think this topic has been kinda blown out of the water.Like I said "WE DONT EVEN KNOW IF THESE FISH ARE FROM ORA".And from my experince in the hobby and what I have been told by a worker of ORA,these fish more than likely arent even ORA.

And the idea that "ORA is selling high end fish to put out other breeders" is just stupid!ORA would be basicly destroying the market for these fish and if they done that what would happen to ORA?I know for sure that ORA's "picassos" wouldnt have the value of that they hav enow.And plus,how many fish would have to be sold to put out another breeder?By the time they have sold enough fish to put out another breeder,ever one would have
"picasso clowns" and there wouldnt even be market for them!

I think we ALL need to think logicly about this situation and think about the effects of what would happen if ORA was going to "put out the breeders"!

Im sorry for getting all up-hipe about this but 1/2 of the information said befoe me was "out of the wack"!

Thanks,
Austin/clowns101

Petco is ORA's biggest customer. And in defense of Petco, if they order Ocellaris clowns and ORA sent "Picasso clowns" than the Petco would still sell them at the Ocellaris price, because that is what they ordered, not because they don't know what they are. And the customer would just get a great deal

scionreefing
04/13/2010, 02:24 AM
I work at a petco in arkansas i have seen those come in from quality pets and ora.

Seeing Green
04/13/2010, 02:49 AM
If anyone has not been into a Petco store that is part of the "Magnet Program" I urge you to do so and you will be pleasantly surprised.

Is there a list of these store locations out there?

Seeing Green
04/13/2010, 02:51 AM
If anyone has not been into a Petco store that is part of the "Magnet Program" I urge you to do so and you will be pleasantly surprised.

Is there a list of these store locations out there?

khaosinc
04/13/2010, 04:43 AM
couldn't find a list, but this is what one (at least claimed to be) employee said on another forum...

Ok so here it is I am the Aquatics Specialist at petco and I am one of 30 stores in the nation that is part of the magnet program. This means we have been one of the top Aquatics stores in the country and we have been cut off the leash we have no restricted species except those prohibited by law. I will now be carying Arowanas, knife fish, RTC, TSN and a list of African and South American Cichlids that will blow your mind. I have been told I can remove tank dividers and arainge fish any way I want to include the decore of the tanks. Any one who has ever worked for a chain store will know that a corperation allowing someone to break the cookie cutter image is huge. I have been told I can take down tank dividers to make an African display and that I should do the same with the south American Cichlids. I will be honest I feel a bit overwelmed at the moment I have always been told what to do in that department and now I am being told to get creative and that we have the full suport of the corprate wallet behind us. BTW this store is in Middletown NY if you have sugestions I would love to hear them and if you live in the area stop in and say hi and we can talk fish for a bit just ask for Tom. Stop in forget the old Petco you knew and I will try to order anything you want! I just scrached the surface of what is hapening I forgot to mention the 120gal reef focal tank and the saltwater explosion. But most important I need sugestions on what to do how to present and what to cary.

wfournier
04/13/2010, 06:39 AM
I've seen these percs, not at Petco, but at That Fish Place in Lancaster PA. My impression was that yes they are definitely the off spring of picassos, but as someone else mentioned there were only a couple that were approaching grade B level. I was talking with another guy who runs the fishroom at another local place and he mentioned that he gets them in from time to time. Basically what it comes down to is that the ratio of grade A picassos is something like 1:100 then there will be a few grade B. So what do you do with the other 90-95 fish? That would be a heck of a lot of fish to cull, so I'm guessing ORA is selling them as true percs.

fishkeeper1981
07/07/2010, 02:42 PM
Are you sure what you saw wasn’t just a misbarred True Percula? I was in a PETCO and saw misbarred True Perculas that I suppose could be mistaken for a Picasso. They were mixed in with the ocellaris that were selling for $18.99. They were really nice looking fish, but they definitely weren’t Picassos. It is my understanding that a Picasso clown spawn will only have a small percentage of nice Picassos in it. ORA would have to have a ton of pairs of Picassos to spawn enough fish to supply PETCO. I have a feeling what was seen were misbarred True Perculas that a PETCO associate either put in the wrong tank or forgot to put the price tag up for or ORA mis-shipped as Percula.

hyperboy
07/07/2010, 03:53 PM
LFS in my area just got in a lot of "mis-bar" percs from ORA....they all look like what used to be B picassos

elegance coral
07/07/2010, 06:47 PM
Maybe the price for low grade Picasso's are simply going down???????
Check this out. http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f326/what-type-of-clownfish-is-this-150470.html

clowns101
07/07/2010, 08:15 PM
I belive ORA is sending these fish out to the store knowing what they are.My loacal store has them and sells them for $19.99.He knows that they are suposed to be higher priced,but he is selling them for that famous $19.99 price becasue of the LOW price he payed for them.He had a tank of probobly 35-50~ of them.He sayed its what they have been sending him for misbars.So who knows.This was just last week,so either they have to many ORA grade B clowns and are shipping them out as misbars,or they are being nice and cutting people a break!Who knows!

dz6t
07/07/2010, 10:51 PM
I think this whole thread started with someone could not tell a Picasso, semi-picasso from a mis-bar. Mis-bar are cheap and they are going for regular clownfish price even from Doni's reef.
FYI, ORA only send a pair of grade A picasso to each store at one time.

elegance coral
07/08/2010, 05:59 AM
I belive ORA is sending these fish out to the store knowing what they are.My loacal store has them and sells them for $19.99.He knows that they are suposed to be higher priced,but he is selling them for that famous $19.99 price becasue of the LOW price he payed for them.He had a tank of probobly 35-50~ of them.He sayed its what they have been sending him for misbars.So who knows.This was just last week,so either they have to many ORA grade B clowns and are shipping them out as misbars,or they are being nice and cutting people a break!Who knows!

I think you bring up a good point. ORA has been selectively breeding/inbreeding these fish for quite a few years now. If the percentage of fish with Picasso like traits has gone up in each clutch, they may simply have more low grade Picasso's than they can offload at the higher price. If this is true, they have a choice. Cull the low grade Picasso's so they can sell a few at higher prices, or sell them all at a lower price. They're not in the business of keeping these fish as pets. They need to sell them to make room for the next batch. If all of this is true, we may see a price drop in all Picasso's before to long. How many people, other than some of us clown fish freaks, will pay $150 for a grade A when you can get the fish in the link I posted for $20?

WDLV
07/08/2010, 10:21 AM
I think there are just soooo many being bred by so many different sources that the supply is vastly outcompeting with demand. So the grade Bs go for cheap maybe even a grade A here and there. I don't think it's a market strategy so much as an attempt to unload excess stock. Whether that be on the part of the wholesaler or the retailer is immaterial. Keep in mind something that has affected my whole hobby in the last couple of years.... You can only keep so many clownfish in one tank and keeping a dozen tanks is a real PITA if you're not doing it for a living. So, once the average single tank household has one pair of clowns that can live for like 25-30 years in captivity, how do you sell more? You either have to bring in more new hobbyists to the saltwater side or you have to rely on the existing hobbyists to keep killing them without getting out of the hobby.

If I wanted to bring in more FW hobbyists or just people off the street I'd be trying to sell attractive fish for attractive prices... but thats not really a new concept.

clowns101
07/08/2010, 10:24 AM
I think you bring up a good point. ORA has been selectively breeding/inbreeding these fish for quite a few years now. If the percentage of fish with Picasso like traits has gone up in each clutch, they may simply have more low grade Picasso's than they can offload at the higher price. If this is true, they have a choice. Cull the low grade Picasso's so they can sell a few at higher prices, or sell them all at a lower price. They're not in the business of keeping these fish as pets. They need to sell them to make room for the next batch. If all of this is true, we may see a price drop in all Picasso's before to long. How many people, other than some of us clown fish freaks, will pay $150 for a grade A when you can get the fish in the link I posted for $20?

Thanks!That was what I was trying to say but couldnt get it out quite right.I agree with every thing you said!

MarinaP
07/08/2010, 05:30 PM
Maybe the price for low grade Picasso's are simply going down???????
Check this out. http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f326/what-type-of-clownfish-is-this-150470.html

That fish looks like undenourised, disfigured freak. It should have never entered the market.

elegance coral
07/08/2010, 06:59 PM
That fish looks like undenourised, disfigured freak. It should have never entered the market.

LOL. And I thought I was critical about clowns. I see a slight under bite, but other than that, all I see is a young fish that should mature just fine. What part of that fish leads you to believe it's "undenourised"?

bues0022
07/08/2010, 08:06 PM
I think this whole thread started with someone could not tell a Picasso, semi-picasso from a mis-bar. Mis-bar are cheap and they are going for regular clownfish price even from Doni's reef.
FYI, ORA only send a pair of grade A picasso to each store at one time.

I am well aware of the labeling of picasso's and semi-picasso clownfish. I started the thread as a "food for thought" to gauge what other people's opinions were about the recent influx of people getting clownfish with better patterning from a Petco for really cheap. Clowns101 and Elegance Coral are likely on the right track.

That fish looks like undenourised, disfigured freak. It should have never entered the market.
MarinaP - bad night tonight? It doesn't look that bad:lolspin:

MarinaP
07/08/2010, 08:11 PM
What part of that fish leads you to believe it's "undenourised"?

That's the least of his problems. Compare him to random Rod's offsprings

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1549934&highlight=bucket+clowns

or rkelman's o's. Those are fat and happy. I am not even going to bring WC percs into comparison.

His whole body is wrong. It is astounding how low the bar for CB clowns has been dropped with "designer" variants. Very few breeders try to produce quality and not quantity.

bues0022
07/08/2010, 08:22 PM
eh, he's a little goofed up, but somebody loves him! There's good and bad ones from each clutch - no matter who raised them. Should they have been culled? that's a whole different can of worms.

elegance coral
07/08/2010, 09:19 PM
That's the least of his problems. Compare him to random Rod's offsprings

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1549934&highlight=bucket+clowns

or rkelman's o's. Those are fat and happy. I am not even going to bring WC percs into comparison.

His whole body is wrong. It is astounding how low the bar for CB clowns has been dropped with "designer" variants. Very few breeders try to produce quality and not quantity.

The fish in the link is a year old, according to the OP. The fish I posted is just a baby. It will fill in as it grows up. A year from now, with some good food and care, it will look completely different. Most captive bred fish go through that ugly duckling, teenage time when they don't look "fat and happy".

The fish on the left in this pic doesn't look all that different from the one in the thread I posted.
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/300/sn853048editedvy0.jpg

Here's the same female today. Well actually on the 4th. of July.
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She's not perfect. I see few captive bred fish that are. She's still pretty and healthy IMHO. She also seems to be living a pretty good quality of life, I guess. Would you rather a breeder cull all these fish?

savageAJC
07/08/2010, 09:43 PM
I don't really see muchj wrong with that clown. I would have swooped it up for 20 in a heartbeat sweet looking clown

dz6t
07/08/2010, 10:45 PM
I am well aware of the labeling of picasso's and semi-picasso clownfish. I started the thread as a "food for thought" to gauge what other people's opinions were about the recent influx of people getting clownfish with better patterning from a Petco for really cheap. Clowns101 and Elegance Coral are likely on the right track.


MarinaP - bad night tonight? It doesn't look that bad:lolspin:

The examples you gave to support your theory all showed mis-bar, none of them were even semi.
Instead of more quality grade A or semi, the market is flooded with mis-bar and deformed fish. LFS as well as chain stores are passing them as Picasso.
On the other hand, Doni's reef keep lowering her standard for Grade A and B. Just take a look of what are on her website today.
LiveAquaria is selling some grade B pair for $175 in diver's den.
A LFS in my area is passing grade B (very nice one though) as grade A and asking for $150 per fish.
A locate chain store has not yet able to get good quality semi recently (the manger is a great guy who can tell the difference)

Also, how often do you see a good pair of grade A show up on Doni? I know recently a local guy just paid $250 + shipping for a pair of very small but high quality grade A.

BTW, do you own a pair of picasso?

dz6t
07/08/2010, 10:48 PM
She's not perfect. I see few captive bred fish that are. She's still pretty and healthy IMHO. She also seems to be living a pretty good quality of life, I guess. Would you rather a breeder cull all these fish?

Those are regular or mis bars, not even close to a semi picasso.

elegance coral
07/09/2010, 05:51 AM
Those are regular or mis bars, not even close to a semi picasso.

My goodness.:hmm3: I know what the fish are. We weren't talking about the markings of the fish. We were talking about the structure of the fish. Things like skull shape, muscle mass, and body proportions.

MarinaP
07/09/2010, 08:59 AM
In the past few years, once "designer" clowns gained popularity, public perception of a normal CB clown shifted to accept subpar fish because of its' cool markings. Body structure, symmetry of fins, skull shape, gills, bite are sacrificed to produce unusual patterns in mass quantity.

I have nothing against well-formed, bright colored, proportionate clowns with more (or less) white. I am strongly against turning breeding efforts into puppy mills' scheme that produces mediocre offsprings with undesirable genetic traits.

To answer EC's question about culling - I would have culled that fish because of the underbite without a doubt.

WDLV
07/09/2010, 09:15 AM
I wouldn't have bought that clown either.... I'm not as good at putting my finger on it as well as Marina is. I would have just thought he looks pale, skinny and something just doesn't look right. I didn't think the underbite was that obvious but on second look, it is definately there.

If I ever succeed in breeding my rare species, I hope I have the intestinal fortitude to either cull the weak ones or else keep them and never sell them.

landlord
07/09/2010, 09:23 AM
If I ever succeed in breeding my rare species, I hope I have the intestinal fortitude to either cull the weak ones or else keep them and never sell them.

I choose the latter, my tomatos occassionally come out with bulldog looking faces, underbites, etc... They make great dither fish.

hawgdawg
07/09/2010, 09:25 AM
What's the big deal about slightly deformed fish? These fish are not being introduced into the wild and therefore will never affect phenotypes of wild populations. So really it boils down to who is buying the fish. If it looks good to you, then buy it. What if we culled every dog or cat that is not perfect? Don't think that would ever fly. Just because they are "less than perfect" doesn't mean they should be condemned to death! Give the poor little fishes a break, be happy that the deformed fish in question hopefully found a loving home!

WDLV
07/09/2010, 09:42 AM
I choose the latter, my tomatos occassionally come out with bulldog looking faces, underbites, etc... They make great dither fish.I think that might be possible in a Darwin tank. That is a tank that is large enough to not have to worry about the fish population and which if I were to add 150 anemonefish that the weak ones would be naturally weeded out.
For fear of fringing on OT, I think the point is that we as hobbyists need to self regulate what quality of fish are most prevalent in the industry. I have bought crappy looking fish too but only when I didn't know better. I tend to believe that that's why most people buy the lesser fish. They don't recognize that "stubby" vertebrae, underbites, flared gills, or mis-shapen fins are weaknesses that should be discouraged.
The point being when you get a steal of a deal, are you really getting a deal or is the vendor selling you a lemon?


What's the big deal about slightly deformed fish? These fish are not being introduced into the wild and therefore will never affect phenotypes of wild populations. So really it boils down to who is buying the fish. If it looks good to you, then buy it. What if we culled every dog or cat that is not perfect? Don't think that would ever fly. Just because they are "less than perfect" doesn't mean they should be condemned to death! Give the poor little fishes a break, be happy that the deformed fish in question hopefully found a loving home!
I used to feel this way too but the truth is that sometimes our fish do make it into the wild. Look at the massive lionfish problem on the East coast of the US. What if the same thing happened with poorly bred anemonefish in the South Pacific? A lot of those hatcheries are found not far from the water. All it would take is one bad storm or tsunami. That's not the main reason that I feel that way. Just saying...
I now tend to think that they should be euthanized to be humane versus my old way of thinking being that they should not be euthanized to be humane.

MarinaP
07/09/2010, 10:04 AM
Fish breeding world mirrors dog breeding world. There are kennels that strive to preserve and improve the breed, avoid genetic problems. They do cull whole litters if problems occur.

And there are backyard breeders, who throw malformed sick mutts at the consumer passing them as true breed. Both business models exist and have customers. All depends on customer's desire to do some basic research.

kichimark
07/09/2010, 11:12 AM
But Nemo was deformed :hmm4:

WDLV
07/09/2010, 11:22 AM
...and a Pixar animation. Animated characters can survive almost anything. Think Wiley E Coyote.

Roger Rabbit sure was afraid of paint thinner though.

elegance coral
07/09/2010, 05:43 PM
In the past few years, once "designer" clowns gained popularity, public perception of a normal CB clown shifted to accept subpar fish because of its' cool markings. Body structure, symmetry of fins, skull shape, gills, bite are sacrificed to produce unusual patterns in mass quantity.

I do agree with you 100% on this.

I have nothing against well-formed, bright colored, proportionate clowns with more (or less) white. I am strongly against turning breeding efforts into puppy mills' scheme that produces mediocre offsprings with undesirable genetic traits.

Again I agree with you. In fact, I would rather have a regular wild caught clown that is a perfect representation of its species, than a captive bred fish with really cool marking, but abnormal features. One of my favorite fish I own is a regular brown polymnus. Nothing fancy, but she's built flawlessly which makes her incredible to me. In the clownfish thread, I was raving about someones clarkii. Other people chimed in to say there's nothing special about a "black clarkii". I had to explain that it wasn't the pretty markings that made the fish special. It was the healthy structure of the fish that set it apart from most.

To answer EC's question about culling - I would have culled that fish because of the underbite without a doubt.

If I ever start seriously breeding, I'd like to think I would cull like crazy. After all, you build your reputation on the fish you sell. If you're a business, you can't cull every fish that has an imperfection though. You wouldn't have much left to sell. Sometimes there's a fine line between, do I cull this fish or not. I'm sure every breeder out there has a different standard they use to make that decision. I've seen fish with under bites that I would have culled without a doubt. I wouldn't have culled the fish we're talking about though. The under bite isn't that bad. The person that bought it, is thrilled to have it, and if they wanted to sell it to someone else for $20, people would be standing in line with their wallets out. For me, making the decision to cull a fish wouldn't be an easy one. I'd do it, and I'm sure my anemones would lover it, but it surely wouldn't be easy. Good things can come form deformed fish. I'm sure you've seen the mother of all the Rod's Onyx clowns. While I don't believe her problems are genetic, if I ever raised a fish like that, I wouldn't think twice about culling it. She may be grossly deformed, but she went on to produce one of the most popular strains of clowns in the hobby.

bues0022
07/09/2010, 06:48 PM
EC - where was that thread about the black Clarkii stuff? I have a very black clarkii and would like to compare a bit.

bues0022
07/09/2010, 07:05 PM
The examples you gave to support your theory all showed mis-bar, none of them were even semi.
Instead of more quality grade A or semi, the market is flooded with mis-bar and deformed fish. LFS as well as chain stores are passing them as Picasso.
On the other hand, Doni's reef keep lowering her standard for Grade A and B. Just take a look of what are on her website today.
LiveAquaria is selling some grade B pair for $175 in diver's den.
A LFS in my area is passing grade B (very nice one though) as grade A and asking for $150 per fish.
A locate chain store has not yet able to get good quality semi recently (the manger is a great guy who can tell the difference)

Also, how often do you see a good pair of grade A show up on Doni? I know recently a local guy just paid $250 + shipping for a pair of very small but high quality grade A.

BTW, do you own a pair of picasso?


I think you might have me confused with others in this thread. I have not posted any pictures of any clowns in this thread. Nor have I "given support" of any of the clowns that were posted. As I originally stated, I was trying to start a discussion to see what others thought the origination of these fish that are quite obviously not your standard clownfish was.

No, I do not currently own a pair of picassos, but I'm not sure that ownership has any direct relevance to the credibility of one's opinions.

elegance coral
07/09/2010, 08:21 PM
EC - where was that thread about the black Clarkii stuff? I have a very black clarkii and would like to compare a bit.

Here ya go. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1868747&page=2 Let me know what you think.

clowns101
07/09/2010, 09:22 PM
I do agree with you 100% on this.



Again I agree with you. In fact, I would rather have a regular wild caught clown that is a perfect representation of its species, than a captive bred fish with really cool marking, but abnormal features. One of my favorite fish I own is a regular brown polymnus. Nothing fancy, but she's built flawlessly which makes her incredible to me. In the clownfish thread, I was raving about someones clarkii. Other people chimed in to say there's nothing special about a "black clarkii". I had to explain that it wasn't the pretty markings that made the fish special. It was the healthy structure of the fish that set it apart from most.



If I ever start seriously breeding, I'd like to think I would cull like crazy. After all, you build your reputation on the fish you sell. If you're a business, you can't cull every fish that has an imperfection though. You wouldn't have much left to sell. Sometimes there's a fine line between, do I cull this fish or not. I'm sure every breeder out there has a different standard they use to make that decision. I've seen fish with under bites that I would have culled without a doubt. I wouldn't have culled the fish we're talking about though. The under bite isn't that bad. The person that bought it, is thrilled to have it, and if they wanted to sell it to someone else for $20, people would be standing in line with their wallets out. For me, making the decision to cull a fish wouldn't be an easy one. I'd do it, and I'm sure my anemones would lover it, but it surely wouldn't be easy. Good things can come form deformed fish. I'm sure you've seen the mother of all the Rod's Onyx clowns. While I don't believe her problems are genetic, if I ever raised a fish like that, I wouldn't think twice about culling it. She may be grossly deformed, but she went on to produce one of the most popular strains of clowns in the hobby.



I recently took down my breeding system(family member moved in).But,when I had it up,I culled my fish to the following standerd:

1)Fish's pattern must be normal or mis-bared to be placed in my "normal tank"

2)If the fish's patterns was more unique like a slight Piccasso with the bars moving in a funky pattern I would place them into my "not so normal tank".

3)If the fish's mouth had a overbite that was beyond noticable,I would place it in my sump and let it grow and kinda let nature run is course.

4)Fish with tiny fins and not normal body shapes,would be placed in in a tank that would just house the fish till nature rans its course,basiccly till they died.

Thats just an over view of my idea of what I would call culling,but Im not a pro breeder.

bues0022
07/09/2010, 10:31 PM
Here ya go. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1868747&page=2 Let me know what you think.

Thanks for the link. Stunning clarkiis over there. I'll put a pic of mine up tomorrow, and want your brutally honest opinion!

elegance coral
07/10/2010, 06:49 PM
Thanks for the link. Stunning clarkiis over there. I'll put a pic of mine up tomorrow, and want your brutally honest opinion!

LOL. You know my opinion is always brutally honest. :lol: Looking forward to seeing those pics.

bues0022
07/10/2010, 07:18 PM
Take a peak, they're up! I'm obviously biased and a big fan, but I can take it and not flame you for an opinion! :)