PDA

View Full Version : best and most silent powerful pump.


jdthomas24
03/24/2010, 07:48 PM
Im looking for about 1000 gph once to the DT. I have a UV and chiller run inline with the pump and wiht the compact 5000 i bet i only get 400 or so to the tank. Head pressure is killing it. I seen some video on the red dragon pumps.. omg!! but they are to high for me. i need something virtually silent though.

sjm817
03/24/2010, 08:35 PM
There are other less expensive Askoll Laguna 1500 based pumps. The Red Dragons are not the only pumps based on this motor.

You can get the basic Laguna 1500 and MSX 1500 from Marine Solutions
http://www.marinesolutionsinc.com/catalog/Pumps/c25/p318/Askoll/Laguna-Max-Flo-1500/product_info.html
http://www.marinesolutionsinc.com/catalog/p323/MSX-FX1500-Return-Pump-and-Volute/product_info.html

You can get the ATB Flow Star 1500 from ATB
http://atbskimmers.com/products/largeview.php?category=Circulation%20Pumps&item=Flow%20Star%201500

thejuggernaut
03/24/2010, 08:47 PM
All of those pumps mentioned aren't going to be good for any kind of head pressure. These pumps are absolutely silent and have decent head pressure ratings. People say they add alot of heat, but I have one of these as the return pump on my 120, its T-ed off running a phosban reactor and I have can keep my tank about 77-78 degrees without anything but a fan that blows over the top of the water and cools my T5 bulbs. The loudest part of my tank is the MP40w.

http://www.marinedepot.com/Poseidon_PS4_External_Pump_1000_to_2000_Gallons_Per_Hour_External_Water_Pumps-Captive_Purity-CP7111-FIWPEPOT-CP7117-vi.html

The

Fishamatank
03/24/2010, 09:04 PM
The poseidon pump above is very very quiet. I have one and you can barely tell its running. It raise my water temperature about 6 degrees though, I took it out of the system.

sjm817
03/24/2010, 09:05 PM
I also run a Poseidon PS4 pump. Dead silent. It looks the the OP was looking for a submersible. The PS4 is a 140W pump, the Askolls are ~ 75W. That is quiet a bit of difference in heat. Submersibles are not that great for high head use. You often have to compromise since it can be hard to get everything you want (quiet, high head, and low heat xfer).

thejuggernaut
03/25/2010, 12:53 AM
Well what is your total system volume. You can do a little math to figure out how much heat the poseidon pump will add. First off its a 140 watt pump. Now lets say that the motor operates at 70% effeciency(its probably a little higher than that). But what that means is that only 98 watts of the 140 is actually converted into mechanical energy, the rest is released as noise and heat from both electrical resistance and friction. For the sake of this lets say that all of those 42 watts are converted to heat. And lets say that all 42 of those watts of heat are converted to the water, they aren't though, because much of the heat is released out of the metal case into the air, but to keep things simple lets say all the heat is released into the water.

In order to find out the amount of heat that is we need to convert it to BTUs. 1 watt is equal to 3.413 units of BTU energy, so that means that our 42 watts are actually converted into 143.346 BTUs. It takes 8.34 BTUs to raise 1 gallon of water 1 degree over one hour. Now lets just say you have a 100 gallon total water volume. In order to raise that 100 gallons of water 1 degree you would need 834 btu of heat, or 244.326 watts. So that pump would add less that 2 tenths of a degree of heat over a pump that somehow releases all of its motor heat into the air.

BlueStag
03/25/2010, 01:03 AM
It's pretty well documented that the posieden pump puts out a little extra heat. It also is the quietest pump. A pretty good trade off. I run two of them on a 180 gallon tank. They do raise the temp of the water, more than other pumps I have used.

I also run a Askoll Maxflo 2000(one size bigger than the 1500). It handles 6' of head fine. I have to bleed a little because its to much flow for a 1.5" overflow. 1/2 the price of a red dragon, same motor. More flow than the 1500. Dead quite Why pay the extra price? I think the flow your looking for would be fine with the 1500 :hammer:

jdthomas24
03/25/2010, 07:37 PM
To all thank you for the input, i have been struggling with this for weeks and have been up in the air about it all. i wasted 180 bucks on a eheim compact that just doesn't do the job. I would like a drop in but if i have to go external then so be it. I looked into snapper reeflows today but just wanted to see the GPH versus sound levels.

The Poseiden Pumps seem to offer better range but more heat while the flow is good, i figure that with UV AND CHILLER I would need something like 200-2500 GPH to get 1000 GPH to the DT. What do you think? Right now i have 1400 GPH pump on their and i mayyyyyy get 500 out of it at the DT.

jdthomas24
03/25/2010, 07:57 PM
Well what is your total system volume. You can do a little math to figure out how much heat the poseidon pump will add. First off its a 140 watt pump. Now lets say that the motor operates at 70% effeciency(its probably a little higher than that). But what that means is that only 98 watts of the 140 is actually converted into mechanical energy, the rest is released as noise and heat from both electrical resistance and friction. For the sake of this lets say that all of those 42 watts are converted to heat. And lets say that all 42 of those watts of heat are converted to the water, they aren't though, because much of the heat is released out of the metal case into the air, but to keep things simple lets say all the heat is released into the water.

In order to find out the amount of heat that is we need to convert it to BTUs. 1 watt is equal to 3.413 units of BTU energy, so that means that our 42 watts are actually converted into 143.346 BTUs. It takes 8.34 BTUs to raise 1 gallon of water 1 degree over one hour. Now lets just say you have a 100 gallon total water volume. In order to raise that 100 gallons of water 1 degree you would need 834 btu of heat, or 244.326 watts. So that pump would add less that 2 tenths of a degree of heat over a pump that somehow releases all of its motor heat into the air.



:hmm5::hmm5::hmm5::hmm5::hmm5::hmm5::hmm5::hmm5::hmm5::hmm5:



What? LOL... no i get it but everyone states that their temps would raise anywhere form 2-6 degrees.

mx270
03/25/2010, 08:02 PM
I just ordered a red dragon from marine depot. I have it ready to be connected up tomarrow. It was on clearance if that helps you. 2200gph @ 75w. I am removing a quiet one 9000. The 9000 is so loud I could no longer stand it. It also uses 140w.

jdthomas24
03/25/2010, 08:09 PM
i missed a RD 6.5 m3 on ebay- used for 250 the other day. I had to make measurement to see if i could submerge it in the pocket and when i was doing that it sold.. i would love to have one but they are to high for me right now.

on the flip side the Askroll pumps are based on the same motor per sjm817. I have looked at them also and they are a little expensive but not as much as the RD ones are. HMMMMMMMMMMMM DECISIONS DECISIONS

jdthomas24
03/25/2010, 08:18 PM
The poseidon pump above is very very quiet. I have one and you can barely tell its running. It raise my water temperature about 6 degrees though, I took it out of the system.

it doesnt seem that this pump has a higher GPH one. Its only rated for 480 Gallons at 16 feet. Im sure my calculations are not that great but i figured that i added at least 9 since i have a UV and chiller and about 8 feet of horizontal line and 8 feet of vertical with a T on it- 4 feet on both sides

mx270
03/25/2010, 08:24 PM
Good luck on your hunt. What uv light do you have that will handle that kind of flow?

Mounda
03/25/2010, 08:35 PM
Yeah, that is definitely another variable to put in mind. In order for your UV to run effectively there must be enough contact time with the water, if it's too fast the it's useless. Why not get a dedicated pump for your chiller and UV ? Another Eheim ?

jdthomas24
03/25/2010, 08:52 PM
i have the aqua 40 watt unit. States it will handle up to 2900 GPH. So i would be good to go there. hopefully

jdthomas24
03/25/2010, 08:58 PM
I had the UV light inline with the overflow to the sump. Then the local fish store guy told me it needed to be on the return pump. I was only using one leg of the overflow for the sterilizer so this way i hit everything as it goes back to the tank. In theory a better way i guess. Thats when all of this started. the chiller hurt it bu both together killed my GPH

thejuggernaut
03/26/2010, 12:36 AM
Well if you think you have close to 10 feet of head and still need 1000 gph flow your probably going to need a high pressure pump. Reeflo make the Tarpon which makes 1176 GPH at 9'. I hear they are a little louder than a Dart but shouldn't have much heat transfer from the motor. Honestly I think your going to have a hard time finding a pump that produces that much flow under that much pressure that doesnt create some amount of noise.

mx270
03/26/2010, 05:33 AM
It is a good idea to filter the water before running it through the uv light. I have 2 lifegard 40 watt units run seperate of my main pump. I run around 500 gal through them. I saw at Dr F&S that you only want around 300 gal through 40 watts to control parasites. I have mine pulling water from the skimmer compartment, dumping it in my refuge, and draining from the fuge via gravity back to the main pump compartment. This way the pods don't get a sun tan on their trip to the main tank!

pecan2phat
03/26/2010, 12:22 PM
Sorry to butt in here but everyone seems very knowledgable on the subject.
I wanted to replace my Blue Line 40 HD due to the noise. It is extremely loud when used in a pressure enviroment. If I run the pump as a flow pump, it's not as bad but I am pumping up from a basement sump to a 1st floor display. Roughly about 12' vertical and maybe 8' horizontal.
I was also looking at the RD and Flowstar pumps but don't think that these pumps have enough head pressure so I was asking around about the Tunze 1073.90
Sounds good but Roger from Tunze stated that these pumps need to have regular maintenance in the impellar area so that kind of turned my interest.
Any suggestions?

jdthomas24
03/27/2010, 08:51 AM
Hmmm, I thought about the RIO 32Hyperflow pump but then i hear that some do not like their pumps. I wanted a drop in but if i need to go external then so be it, i will make some for it. So im on these pumps so far

Reeflo - Snapper
Dart
Red Dragon - to $$$$$$$
Poseidon

Askoll/ laguna pumps are only rated at 1500 GPH which may be a little low for my applications but who knows.

Av8bluewater
03/27/2010, 09:14 AM
The dart is a great pump and very quite.. Just keep in mind that it takes up A LOT of room with the 2" in 1.5" out fittings. I didn't realize how much space it would take up.... especially if you install double union ball valves like I did. It's very energy efficient too.. 150W on my kill-0-watt. I had it running everything... Skimmer, return, reactors.

Tek_Diver
03/28/2010, 11:32 PM
Dolphin Amp Master 3000

fufu
03/29/2010, 02:11 AM
dolphin are not pressure rated, so the output will be drastically lowered.

mx270
03/29/2010, 05:29 AM
I installed my Red Dragon pump this weekend. I can not hear it over my overflow. If I put my head up next to it, it sounds like a CD player spinning a disc. I am very impressed with the pump so far.

Have you considered running 2 quiet one 4000s. I have run these pumps and they are great for the money invested. They are rated over 1000 each at 50 watts. Maybe use one on your chiller and one on your UV?

tegee
03/29/2010, 05:46 AM
Blueline recirculating pump have performed very well for me for years. Have three of them running in my livingroom (40hd-x) and are great, quiet and reliable pump from my experience.

swiftwing7
03/29/2010, 08:13 AM
Well what is your total system volume. You can do a little math to figure out how much heat the poseidon pump will add. First off its a 140 watt pump. Now lets say that the motor operates at 70% effeciency(its probably a little higher than that). But what that means is that only 98 watts of the 140 is actually converted into mechanical energy, the rest is released as noise and heat from both electrical resistance and friction. For the sake of this lets say that all of those 42 watts are converted to heat. And lets say that all 42 of those watts of heat are converted to the water, they aren't though, because much of the heat is released out of the metal case into the air, but to keep things simple lets say all the heat is released into the water.

In order to find out the amount of heat that is we need to convert it to BTUs. 1 watt is equal to 3.413 units of BTU energy, so that means that our 42 watts are actually converted into 143.346 BTUs. It takes 8.34 BTUs to raise 1 gallon of water 1 degree over one hour. Now lets just say you have a 100 gallon total water volume. In order to raise that 100 gallons of water 1 degree you would need 834 btu of heat, or 244.326 watts. So that pump would add less that 2 tenths of a degree of heat over a pump that somehow releases all of its motor heat into the air.

Actually all of the energy from the pump ends up as heat in the water. Conservation of energy. Even if it is transferred to the impeller as mechanical, then the water, the energy still ends up in the water. If you turn off your pump the water doesn't circulate forever, it has friction on itself and the tank and the energy is transferred to heat. 100W pump is a 100W heater. The Poseidon (water cooled) is a 140 W heater that runs constantly, thus the large temp increases that many see using them.

jdthomas24
03/29/2010, 07:33 PM
Actually all of the energy from the pump ends up as heat in the water. Conservation of energy. Even if it is transferred to the impeller as mechanical, then the water, the energy still ends up in the water. If you turn off your pump the water doesn't circulate forever, it has friction on itself and the tank and the energy is transferred to heat. 100W pump is a 100W heater. The Poseidon (water cooled) is a 140 W heater that runs constantly, thus the large temp increases that many see using them.

no that makes since.......

So Dolphin is out for lack of head pressure?
Red Dragon is way to expensive for me though.
Velocity T4 , will this one work, appears that they are rated for about 700 GPH at mu head pressure, or maybe a little more.

I thought about running two pumps but would rather figure it out for one because i need my UV light hitting all of the water back to the tank.

jdthomas24
03/31/2010, 09:23 PM
ok, i got a t4 and will cut the sump out to run it this weekend and see how it goes, wish me luck!!!!!

I am hoping that the T4 has better pressure with my set up than the eheim compact that runs the same GPH. I was told it would but we will see.

mx270
04/01/2010, 04:11 AM
Good luck, hope it works well.

Have you heard of the water blaster line? Sold at premium aquatics. Seem to be a 'flavorite' red dragon. Not much other info other than low watts and big flow.

thejuggernaut
04/01/2010, 08:31 AM
Actually all of the energy from the pump ends up as heat in the water. Conservation of energy. Even if it is transferred to the impeller as mechanical, then the water, the energy still ends up in the water. If you turn off your pump the water doesn't circulate forever, it has friction on itself and the tank and the energy is transferred to heat. 100W pump is a 100W heater. The Poseidon (water cooled) is a 140 W heater that runs constantly, thus the large temp increases that many see using them.

I agree with ya...the only kind of pumps that dont release all the heat back into the water are externals and vortechs because a bit of the energy is released as heat from the case into the air. But you cant really include the friction from the water movement cause a pump that has the same flow and pressure rating is gonna release the same amount of heat from friction. You can't get away from introducing that heat.

pecan2phat
04/01/2010, 10:42 AM
I started to look at the Octopus Water Blasters because they have 2 models that have decent Head pressure. I asked a few questions on them through a vendor forum. They look promising because it was stated that they did not have the "restart" issue like the ATB Flowstar pumps and comes with unions on both ends and has a 3 year warranty. Also something about the material used for the impellar & shaft where calcium will not bind to.

jdthomas24
04/01/2010, 11:36 AM
I started to look at the Octopus Water Blasters because they have 2 models that have decent Head pressure. I asked a few questions on them through a vendor forum. They look promising because it was stated that they did not have the "restart" issue like the ATB Flowstar pumps and comes with unions on both ends and has a 3 year warranty. Also something about the material used for the impellar & shaft where calcium will not bind to.

im actually looking into them now also. i got the T4 used locally and is in good working order but before i drill a hole in my sump i would like to find out more about 7000 series model and how big they are size wise. im a little limited on how bog of a drop in pump i can have.