ORA Mandarin Dragonets!!!!!

[Jordani]

ORA is going to release captive bred spotted and mandarin dragonets this summer.

ORA Announces Captive Bred Mandarins

"For many years marine aquarium hobbyists have been captivated by the exquisite beauty of Mandarin Gobies (actually Dragonettes). Their popularity, however, is tempered by the fact that they are difficult to feed in captivity and are subject to questionable collection practices in the wild. Unfortunately, most Mandarins succumb to starvation in home aquariums, even with the best intentions and attempts at feeding. Thankfully, all of that is about to change.
ORA biologists have succeeded in developing the methods needed to breed and raise commercial numbers of the two species of Mandarins, the Blue Mandarin (Synchiropus splendidus) and the Spotted Mandarin (Synchiropus picturatus). Building on the early success of breeders such as Julian Sprung, Wolfgang Mai, and more recently Matt Wittenrich, ORA is now poised to have commercially bred Mandarins available to everyone. The significance of this cannot be understated as it is a major advance in marine aquaculture and solves many of the problems associated with keeping these species.

Just as the first captive bred Seahorses were trained to eat frozen foods, ORA has already trained our baby Mandarins to eat commercially available frozen diets. This fact alone makes them easy to feed and care for, and the average aquarist will delight in not having to worry about sources of live food for their finicky eaters. Our goal is to have them soon weaned onto a pellet diet. We expect to have these fish eating pelletized foods before being released for sale.

ORA is the leader in bringing the marine aquarium industry new and exciting aquacultured species. With the addition of Mandarins to our ever-growing list, a major milestone in aquaculture has been achieved. We are sure that our retail customers and hobbyists alike will be elated that captive raised Mandarins are finally available and that a page has been turned in the tragic history of this beloved aquarium fish.

We expect to have significant numbers of Spotted Mandarins available this summer. Blue and Red Mandarins will be available in more limited quantities around the same time. "

[L8 2 RISE]

If they actually have spotted's the same color as the one in that pic, PUT ME IN LINE!!!

[Jordani]

Here some more awesome pics:inlove:

[nj_evoIXgsr]

i'll be putting in for pre-order with my LFS. wonder if they would be able to special request male/female. definitely going for a blue dragon

[velvetelvis]

Beat me to it! :lol:

I will definitely have an eye out for these little critters. God bless breeders like ORA and SA. Who'da thunk we'd ever have access to tank-raised blue tangs and captive-bred, pellet-eating mandarins? :fish1:

[Jordani]

Beat me to it! :lol:

Yes I did, but you'll probably beat me to getting one or two.:thumbsup:

[basser1]

When I saw this, I already sent an e-mail to my LFS. He is one of ORAs' oldest dealers. He sent a reply saying he will see about getting some on his next order! I'm stoked!!

The only concern some folks have is, what will ORA price these at? I'm thinking the price should be reasonable when you consider what their tank bred yellow assessors go for. They are priced at half of what the wild ones cost.

[nitro4kthompson]

Those baby mandarins are CUTE! I have a green spotted mandarin who fortunately took to prepared food readily. It will help to have captive raised ones in the hobby so more people can successfully keep these little lovelies.

[njudson]

So how would I go about getting one of these? Just go down to the LFS and ask them to order it?

[basser1]

So how would I go about getting one of these? Just go down to the LFS and ask them to order it?

If he is an ORA dealer you can. Or look on-line for places that sell ORA items, like LiveAquaria for example.

[jmaneyapanda]

At MACNA in Atlanta, I was lucky enough to get one of the MOFIB mandarins taht Wittenrich bred and raised (I believe). Kudos to ORA for following through. I remember seeing video somewhere of a diver destroying a 2 foot acro on a wild reef to catch a single mandarin. The hobby progresses.

[agreeive?fish]

I cant wait 9actually i can and will) for the releae of the tank dreed mandys.. ill be watching for them..thanks ORA

[Rickyrooz1]

Nice!

[rmougey]

I remember seeing video somewhere of a diver destroying a 2 foot acro on a wild reef to catch a single mandarin. The hobby progresses.

Every time I've been lucky enough to see mandarin fish while diving, they are found on slopes of rubble, typically acropora branches, and are seldom seen out and about. The exception is in the evening when they emerge to breed in the water column above the rubble. Sadness to see destruction of the reef in any form.

Glad to see that ORA is providing these lovely critters. I'd be willing to pay extra for a captive bred fish over a wild fish anyday....

-Rob

[velvetelvis]

When I saw this, I already sent an e-mail to my LFS. He is one of ORAs' oldest dealers. He sent a reply saying he will see about getting some on his next order! I'm stoked!!

The only concern some folks have is, what will ORA price these at? I'm thinking the price should be reasonable when you consider what their tank bred yellow assessors go for. They are priced at half of what the wild ones cost.

Hard to say, but I'm thinking they're definitely going to cost more than wild-caughts--especially considering how cheaply a lot of WC mandarins are priced. But that's only fair. It takes a lot of work (not to mention the costs of overhead, paying staff, and so on) to breed and successfully raise such a tricky species, and aquaculture can only remain viable if the breeders make a profit. Cheaper wild-caught animals (which represent who knows how many other animals that didn't survive capture and transport) cost the hobby, and hobbyists, more in the long run.

I'm more than willing to pay more for a captive-bred animal, knowing that it will already be acclimated to aquarium life, feeding well, and most likely free of disease and parasites--and that my purchase of it didn't contribute to the depletion of wild populations.

[nanotank]

I am getting a hold of my LFS now also..

[29reef]

It will be interesting to see what morphs ORA can come up with. I've seen some pretty odd looking patterns on these fish. With selective captive breeding I expect to see some changes in body and colors. It's all for the best.

[29reef]

I'd expect to see these fish for sale at about $50-60 retail at the start; but expect them long term at about $35-40. That's purely a guess based on current WC prices and what other CB fish are selling for. In the articles published on breeding I didn't get the idea that it was really that hard.

[d0ughb0y]

I'm more than willing to pay more for a captive-bred animal, knowing that it will already be acclimated to aquarium life, feeding well, and most likely free of disease and parasites--and that my purchase of it didn't contribute to the depletion of wild populations.

mandarins are ich resistant by nature, so it's not like ora is developing an ich resistant mandarin. hopefully, it does not lose that characteristic in the ora breeding process.

[velvetelvis]

It doesn't have anything to do with breeding. A captive-bred fish that's been in a controlled environment hasn't been exposed to the same potential parasites and diseases that a wild-caught fish has. Since the slime coat that helps fend off ich is part of the mandarins' physiology, I doubt it would--or could--be bred out of them.

[Amoore311]

Wild Caught Mandarins sell for $18 locally. I'd pay up to 2x that for a captive bred one that is eating prepared foods.

Any more than that and they will have trouble selling them I think.

[d0ughb0y]

It doesn't have anything to do with breeding. A captive-bred fish that's been in a controlled environment hasn't been exposed to the same potential parasites and diseases that a wild-caught fish has. Since the slime coat that helps fend off ich is part of the mandarins' physiology, I doubt it would--or could--be bred out of them.

I don't know much about genetics, but did notice the color of the ora mandarins are not similiar to the typical wild caught ones (I personally think the wild caught colors look better). I think if they are able to breed them into a different color and eating habits, I won't be surprised if other characteristics can change. I would never say never.

[velvetelvis]

Wild Caught Mandarins sell for $18 locally. I'd pay up to 2x that for a captive bred one that is eating prepared foods.

Any more than that and they will have trouble selling them I think.

Considering what most reefkeepers spend on their tanks and equipment, I think an extra $20 or even $30 on a CB fish over a WC isn't really *that* big of a deal. The number of fish you can add to your tank is finite...you're talking about a one-time investment, unless you're constantly switching your fish out (which, I admit, I've done before--in which case it can add up pretty quickly). Nobody's going to go broke buying CB instead of WC. Skip a couple of meals out, or a few trips to Starbucks, and you've made up the difference. :)

[velvetelvis]

I don't know much about genetics, but did notice the color of the ora mandarins are not similiar to the typical wild caught ones (I personally think the wild caught colors look better). I think if they are able to breed them into a different color and eating habits, I won't be surprised if other characteristics can change. I would never say never.

Most likely the eating habits are the result of training and conditioning, same as with WC mandarins whose owners have trained them to accept pellets and frozen foods. The problem is that for every WC mandarin that learns to eat "dead" foods (and the ones that do tend to be the exception rather than the rule), countless others perish--not only in the process of being collected and shipped, but also when they land in the tanks of hobbyists who aren't prepared to care for them (or even stores--I wish I had a dollar for every sorry-looking, emaciated, doomed dragonet I've seen for sale in aquarium shops). That's where the losses mount up, and that's why CB fish are so important.

As far as the slime coat vs. colors...I doubt it. I'm not a geneticist, so I can't predict for sure, but I would think that differing patterns and colors are a lot less "fixed" than a survival characteristic like a slime coat that is part of the fish's inherent make-up. But I could be wrong. Any marine biologists here?

[d0ughb0y]

lol, I am sure we have all blown away more than $20 or $30 on more useless stuff than a CB mandarin.

[velvetelvis]

No doubt. I know I have. :p

[amheck]

this seems almost too good to be true. Exciting!

[trmiv]

I'm in, can't wait. I'd gladly pay $50-60 for one of these beauties. Now I need to figure out which LFS around me deals ORA stuff.

[mrwilson]

Imagine the possibilities this opens up! One could responsibly put a CB mandarin that is eating pellets in an otherwise appropriately sized nano tank, for instance. Awesome news.

[IFbettas]

Imagine the possibilities this opens up! One could responsibly put a CB mandarin that is eating pellets in an otherwise appropriately sized nano tank, for instance. Awesome news.

The problem with this is that typically, even when they are fed prepared foods several times a day, mandarins will still starve if kept without a sustainable pod population. You can find wild mandarins that eat pellets, and yet they are not able to live off of pellets alone. I don't see how the ORA mandarins will be any different.

[Sheol]

I'd always be willing to pay more for a CB fish. Usually, superior to WC in every respect. Look at CB Clowns compared to WC clown survival. Much better.
Good work ORA, Keep it up!

Matthew

[amheck]

Anyone with pricing or availability info from their LFS yet?

[velvetelvis]

I think they'll be available this summer. Maybe your LFS could contact ORA?

[amheck]

I have a msg in to the LFS but hadn't heard back yet. Was just curious if anyone else had.

[jhawkor]

Kudos to ORA. People have actually been breeding mandarins for a while now, just not large scale.

[basser1]

My LFS sent me an e-mail and said he's going to try and get some on his next order.

[rekn]

The problem with this is that typically, even when they are fed prepared foods several times a day, mandarins will still starve if kept without a sustainable pod population. You can find wild mandarins that eat pellets, and yet they are not able to live off of pellets alone. I don't see how the ORA mandarins will be any different.

they do live off pelets alone. as long as its nutritionally complete youre golden.


if it still eats and dies then it had internal parasites or another problem.

[Amoore311]

they do live off pelets alone. as long as its nutritionally complete youre golden.


if it still eats and dies then it had internal parasites or another problem.



+1

I know a guy who keeps a pair in a 20ish gallon seagrass tank. Very little live rock in the tank, maybe 10lbs?

No way they are getting much of any copepod food from that tank. They do eat the smallest size NLA Pellets and Nutramar OVA. Those 2 items make up 95% of their diet.

[rekn]

+1

I know a guy who keeps a pair in a 20ish gallon seagrass tank. Very little live rock in the tank, maybe 10lbs?

No way they are getting much of any copepod food from that tank. They do eat the smallest size NLA Pellets and Nutramar OVA. Those 2 items make up 95% of their diet.

i think its because these fish arent obligate on certain types of food. theyre just carnivores and if you fill that need then they are fine. now coralivores and such are a different story

[Masterofnonsense]

they do live off pelets alone. as long as its nutritionally complete youre golden.


if it still eats and dies then it had internal parasites or another problem.

+2

A good read is about how Matt Wittenrich bred manadarins. He initially used live myside shrimp, but later moved on to prepared foods for both the parents and young.

[mrbigshot]

bump! i cat wait for the blues. sad thing is i asked the lfs if he could get ora and he looked at me like i was retarded and said whats ora? i explained and he said im a staple store, i only carry what people need.

that would explain the brown and green plain jane zoa's he wants $60 for.

[FMarini]

IIRC-- these initial batches of mandarins were from Wittenrich's growout stock. I believe Matt also guided/trained the folks at ORA on how to, for future production.

While i think this new offering is spectacular- i feel the deciding factor for most folks will be price.Price drives sales.
We (you, i and others on this web board) live in a bubble- we are educated towards the sale and collection of these fish-we care to learn (hence your on the weboard) but remember that we(you, i and the webboard members) are less than 10% of the hobby that buys fish (approx 700K households have salt water tanks). Again if you put WC mandarins $25/ea next to tank of CB mandarin ($80 bux)- i guarantee who sells first. So for the educated & willing hobbyist- yes these CB mandarins will be worth every penny. But for the remaining salt water keepers- no way.

[EvoKnvl]

This is great news! I can't wait!!! Gonna contact my LFS as soon as they open.

[rekn]

IIRC-- these initial batches of mandarins were from Wittenrich's growout stock. I believe Matt also guided/trained the folks at ORA on how to, for future production.

While i think this new offering is spectacular- i feel the deciding factor for most folks will be price.Price drives sales.
We (you, i and others on this web board) live in a bubble- we are educated towards the sale and collection of these fish-we care to learn (hence your on the weboard) but remember that we(you, i and the webboard members) are less than 10% of the hobby that buys fish (approx 700K households have salt water tanks). Again if you put WC mandarins $25/ea next to tank of CB mandarin ($80 bux)- i guarantee who sells first. So for the educated & willing hobbyist- yes these CB mandarins will be worth every penny. But for the remaining salt water keepers- no way.

i think its time for vendors, lfs and online, to step up.

[arioch]

I'd rather, instead of pellets, to just feed them frozen cyclopeeze. That's got to be good enough.

(Although, preferably, I'd still keep them in an established tank with plenty of pods...)

[Shift_9k]

I wanna see this to believe it.

[sfboarders]

Even though they eat prepared foods you think these guys would still eat pods? I have them all over my tank.

[Niño R]

I don't know much about genetics, but did notice the color of the ora mandarins are not similiar to the typical wild caught ones (I personally think the wild caught colors look better). I think if they are able to breed them into a different color and eating habits, I won't be surprised if other characteristics can change. I would never say never.

I wouldn't mind giving a little color up, as long as we are preserving life in the ocean.

[Dante_JoseCuerv]

The pics of the ORA ones look like young dragonettes that haven't fully developed their colors.

[velvetelvis]

I wouldn't mind giving a little color up, as long as we are preserving life in the ocean.

+1 Some things are more important than getting the biggest bang for your buck.

[FMarini]

Whose preserving life in the oceans?
I think many of us know that mandarins will still be wild collected even though these CB ones will be available. The benefit of these CB mandarins will they will eat prepared foods and do well in your tank. However- the production of these fish commercially most likely will NOT impact their wild collections, not now at least.
Allow me to use clownfish as an example-- even thou they are the most widely CB propagated fish- commercially available in almost every state as a CB/CR fish- thousand upon thousands of WC clowns are brought in every year. Why- because the demand is there- commercial firms cant produce enough and again- money is the key driver- WC clowns are a few dollars.

[lars on live]

I'm in. I'm trying to buy nothing but captive breed from now on.

[Sardaukar]

IIRC-- these initial batches of mandarins were from Wittenrich's growout stock. I believe Matt also guided/trained the folks at ORA on how to, for future production.

While i think this new offering is spectacular- i feel the deciding factor for most folks will be price.Price drives sales.
We (you, i and others on this web board) live in a bubble- we are educated towards the sale and collection of these fish-we care to learn (hence your on the weboard) but remember that we(you, i and the webboard members) are less than 10% of the hobby that buys fish (approx 700K households have salt water tanks). Again if you put WC mandarins $25/ea next to tank of CB mandarin ($80 bux)- i guarantee who sells first. So for the educated & willing hobbyist- yes these CB mandarins will be worth every penny. But for the remaining salt water keepers- no way.
I think it will be easier than you think. Lots of even uneducated salt water hobbyists have tried mandarins and most have failed. As long as CB are not ridiculously expensive (and I don't know why they would be, I can't think of any large scale CB salt water fish that are more than about double wild caught price), as a former LFS employee, I can guarantee that a customer who has tried and failed multiple times with wild caught mandarins will be an easy sale.

[Sardaukar]

Whose preserving life in the oceans?
I think many of us know that mandarins will still be wild collected even though these CB ones will be available. The benefit of these CB mandarins will they will eat prepared foods and do well in your tank. However- the production of these fish commercially most likely will NOT impact their wild collections, not now at least.
Allow me to use clownfish as an example-- even thou they are the most widely CB propagated fish- commercially available in almost every state as a CB/CR fish- thousand upon thousands of WC clowns are brought in every year. Why- because the demand is there- commercial firms cant produce enough and again- money is the key driver- WC clowns are a few dollars.

Any yet, every CB clown thats sold to a hobbyist is one that didn't have to come from the ocean. The fact that commercial breeding is unable to totally satisfy demand for clowns does not mean that the hundreds of thousands of CB clowns sold each year are doing nothing for the reefs. Heck, if nothing else they keep people like ORA in business so they can make real progress on fish like dragonettes.

[velvetelvis]

I think it will be easier than you think. Lots of even uneducated salt water hobbyists have tried mandarins and most have failed. As long as CB are not ridiculously expensive (and I don't know why they would be, I can't think of any large scale CB salt water fish that are more than about double wild caught price), as a former LFS employee, I can guarantee that a customer who has tried and failed multiple times with wild caught mandarins will be an easy sale.

+1

As I've said before, if your finances are so tight that an extra $20 or so for a one-time purchase of a CB fish will break you, you probably can't afford to keep a saltwater tank at all. Buying replacement salt water and RO topoff water alone will cost many times more than that over the years, let alone other maintenance costs like food, replacement bulbs for lighting fixtures, replacement parts (or upgrades) for skimmers and powerheads, and so on.

It's a false sense of economy. You'll spend more making regular trips to Starbucks or eating lunch out a few times a week than you will on the extra cost of buying a CB fish. And you won't have to worry about replacing it when it doesn't succumb to brooklynella, ich, internal parasites, or starvation--which will also save you money.

Additionally, prices of CB fish tend to drop as individual species gain popularity and are produced by more breeders. Conversely, if wild reef fish populations suffer due to overcollection (especially to meet demand for species with a poor survival rate in captivity)--or if regulation crops up to protect them against such exploitation--many WC fish may eventually become more expensive. Ultimately, buying CB "versions" of the fish you want when they are available is practical, as well as responsible.

[snorvich]

Double reply, sorry

[snorvich]

Since mandarins eat constantly in the wild and have a metabolism that is accustomed to that, how will captive bred mandarins owners feed them? Once a day, twice a day, or ? And since mandarins are poor hunters as best, how will they get their share of food when they are fed? Are these new owners going to target feed them multiple times per day?

[Guygettnby]

Since mandarins eat constantly in the wild and have a metabolism that is accustomed to that, how will captive bred mandarins owners feed them? Once a day, twice a day, or ? And since mandarins are poor hunters as best, how will they get their share of food when they are fed? Are these new owners going to target feed them multiple times per day?

i agree with you. i still think it will be hard to keep them long term even if they are eating prepaired foods.

[Guygettnby]

on another note, does anybody know when they will actually be releasing them for sale?

[Jordani]

They said in the summer sometime.

[sfboarders]

on another note, does anybody know when they will actually be releasing them for sale?

My LFS said they'll be receiving them in July.

[Guygettnby]

cool, mine have no clue they even exsist.... i have asked like 4-5 stores and all of them say they will look into them now.

[Ebn]

Since mandarins eat constantly in the wild and have a metabolism that is accustomed to that, how will captive bred mandarins owners feed them? Once a day, twice a day, or ? And since mandarins are poor hunters as best, how will they get their share of food when they are fed? Are these new owners going to target feed them multiple times per day?

Same way as the rest of the tank. Pellets from 2 autofeeders (8x a day feeding) plus a few extra feedings when I get home; hopefully it'll work.

[zachfishman]

I'm in. I'm trying to buy nothing but captive breed from now on.

That's how I go with all my corals (aquacultured or frags only). However I can't make the 100% leap for fish; love tangs too much.

[snorvich]

Same way as the rest of the tank. Pellets from 2 autofeeders (8x a day feeding) plus a few extra feedings when I get home; hopefully it'll work.

Assuming no other fish to out compete the mandarins, it should work fine.

[cwegescheide]

I saw these baby manderins at a pet expo in Orlando about a month ago. They had a solana full of them at the ORA booth. Cudos to ORA for pulling this off.. Cute little buggars.. I'll definatley have one (or two) in my tank for sure. Gorgeous fish. I have a feeling there is going to be a list a mile long for these.

[Jordani]

Guess what a reef store up here in Canada said they are gonna get ORA mandarins next month!

[mikid]

keep us posted when they arrive.....:thumbsup:

[SaltwaterAdict]

That's awesome ORA is captive breeding mandarin dragonets! Let's be realistic about the feeding requirements, sure it's good for a mandarin to accept pellets, but they need the core of their diet from amphipods n copepods. I have a green spotted n a psychedelic mandarin wild caught they haven't touched pellets/frozen n have doubled in size. As long as u have a fuge streaming with pods, n approx 50lbs LR per dragonet u'll easily be able to support them. They are so beautiful n have lots of personality, one of my favorite fish.

[WuHT]

Guess what a reef store up here in Canada said they are gonna get ORA mandarins next month!

which one ? pm me if jl is not allowed on this forum

[LisaD]

A live fish is better value than a dead fish, every time. :)

I wouldn't hesitate to pay $60+ for these fish if they have good long term survival.

[bymers42]

This is very exciting! I have been struggling to keep myself from buying a mandarin for SO long because I knew my tank would not be fit for one.

[muttley000]

Will this change the minimum tank size requirements for these? Not having to have a large pod population seems like you could put one in 30 gallons. What do you all think?

[Laddy]

Here we arrive at the duality of the hobby.....yet again :wavehand:

It's not at all complicated to keep some of these "hard to keep fish" if you taylor your tank accordingly.

Example(s):
I've seen a half a dozen dragonets in a 30g tank.......still going.

I've seen a fat Moorish Idol......still alive.

and

A tank "copperband proof"..........still 'proof' :strooper:

------------------------------------------------------

Take the time, if you REALLY want a certain fish, do the research and set up an ENTIRE tank to that fish. The dragonet tank I described was at another hobbyist home where he dedicated an entire 55g fuge--ELEVATED ABOVE THE 30G TANk--to drain down into the tank. The moorish idol tank I saw was @ a wholesaler who replaced new LR in the tank every few days (lots of sponges and dirty little creatures to consume)....and the CB tank was at a friends house who converted a low profile tank (frag tank....before they were called frag tanks:frog:).....you've never seen CBs swim so fast!

My point being, if you want a dragonet, they're entirely possible to keep...........just don't see a "must have" wrasse a few months down the road and introduce a competetor into the mix.

PS: I think it's great ORA is starting to make a market in captive bred dragonets.......and I'm not a huge ORA fan to be honest with you.

[kes_reef]

I'm excited to hear about this! Tried a few since the 80s but, sadly, they never made it in my 120g tank full of live rocks.

[velvetelvis]

Here we arrive at the duality of the hobby.....yet again :wavehand:

It's not at all complicated to keep some of these "hard to keep fish" if you taylor your tank accordingly.

Example(s):
I've seen a half a dozen dragonets in a 30g tank.......still going.

I've seen a fat Moorish Idol......still alive.

and

A tank "copperband proof"..........still 'proof' :strooper:

------------------------------------------------------

Take the time, if you REALLY want a certain fish, do the research and set up an ENTIRE tank to that fish. The dragonet tank I described was at another hobbyist home where he dedicated an entire 55g fuge--ELEVATED ABOVE THE 30G TANk--to drain down into the tank. The moorish idol tank I saw was @ a wholesaler who replaced new LR in the tank every few days (lots of sponges and dirty little creatures to consume)....and the CB tank was at a friends house who converted a low profile tank (frag tank....before they were called frag tanks:frog:).....you've never seen CBs swim so fast!

My point being, if you want a dragonet, they're entirely possible to keep...........just don't see a "must have" wrasse a few months down the road and introduce a competetor into the mix.

PS: I think it's great ORA is starting to make a market in captive bred dragonets.......and I'm not a huge ORA fan to be honest with you.

The problem is, most aquarists don't have that level of dedication when it comes to keeping delicate, difficult species. I know it's more than I would be willing to take on. And for every hobbyist who's responsible enough to go to those lengths and ensure that the dragonet/Moorish idol/copperband/whatever has its needs met, there are countless others who will get the fish on a whim, realize it's beginning to starve, and then ask for help--too late. Too many people don't do any research before buying fish (I've been guilty of it too), and too many retailers are willing to sell the wrong fish to the wrong customer, just as long as they make that profit.

[romsoccer12]

Anyone mind getting a real picture? Im very curious on wether they are less colorfull than the WC mandarins.

[romsoccer12]

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://reeftools.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ora-mandarin-global-pet-expo.jpg&imgrefurl=http://reeftools.com/news/ora-captive-bred-mandarins-at-global-pet-expo-in-orlando/&usg=__PYVcvYDMBvQP8YU1NK8JacDSUfc=&h=525&w=700&sz=133&hl=en&start=2&sig2=1wgVCwp1O4BM637JT8TQfg&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=Urqh0dveffZUQM:&tbnh=105&tbnw=140&prev=/images%3Fq%3DORA%2Bmandarins%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=cj8MTNC-A4LGlQfw7eyRDg
=)

[joejoe1055]

still not listed on LA

[velvetelvis]

I don't know if they're going to be listed on LA. I did get confirmation from Diver's Den (their WYSIWYG store) that they're going to be offering them on DD.

[parrthed]

Picked one up today, Target Mandarin. Only about 3/4" long but I saw them eating small pellets like champs at the LFS. Im uper psyched, he is going in my 40 Breeder.

[d0ughb0y]

how much did you pay for it?

[mrwilson]

Picked one up today, Target Mandarin. Only about 3/4" long but I saw them eating small pellets like champs at the LFS. Im uper psyched, he is going in my 40 Breeder.

Cute little guy. Which LFS?

[parrthed]

I have been obsessing over them for about a week now. Finally couldnt take it anymore and bought one ($49.99). Got it at Sandy's in Louisville, Bruce is a super guy and comes from the "old school" of reefing. (BTW there is still one more there)

[gogators1088]

i wonder what the long term effects will be on them not eating the food theyre designed and been feeding on for hundreds of years

[parrthed]

Thats a good question, He is currently in a 40 breeder that is overrun with caulerpa and monster pods (used to be a pony tank). I dropped a couple pellets in and he came right out and nabbed them. Really great feeding response. I am seriously suprised, very active and not shy at all.

[gogators1088]

thats great, ive got a green mand in my 46 bow and he was good and plump when i got him and the next 3 weeks he slowly got skinnier and skinnier and finally decided itd be a good life choice for him to start eating the frozen brine and cyclops i was offering him lol

[mustanglver98]

thats great, ive got a green mand in my 46 bow and he was good and plump when i got him and the next 3 weeks he slowly got skinnier and skinnier and finally decided itd be a good life choice for him to start eating the frozen brine and cyclops i was offering him lol

LMAO:lolspin:

[EllieSuz]

There are a couple of possible pitfalls to keeping these tank bred fish:

1. Just because they will eat pellets, doesn't mean they will know how to forage for pods between feedings. Mandarins need to eat pretty much constantly. If these fish still have the instinct for hunting, they will still need a quantity of live rock and/or a specific breeding ground for pods such as a refugium.

2. Feeding pellets once or twice a day will not sustain a Mandarin. They are timid eaters and they can't compete with other fish in your tank for pellets. Unless you have the time and patience to target feed these pellets directly in the vicinity of the Mandarin many times a day, I'm not sure the survival rate of the tank bred fish will be any better than wild caught ones. It may be necessary to overfeed your tank in order to keep these Mandarins alive. I'd like to hear opinions about these Ora fish from other reefers who are successfully keeping wild Mandarins and are familiar with their habits.

[The Reef Expert]

OMFG it was eating pellets?? *** thats like unheard of! Awesome!

[The Reef Expert]

http://glassbox-design.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ora-mandarin-goby.jpg
http://glassbox-design.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ora_blue_two_1.jpg
http://glassbox-design.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ora_spotted.jpg
http://glassbox-design.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ora_dragonettes_3.jpg
http://glassbox-design.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ora_dragonettes_2.jpg

They're So Cute!

[gweston]

Wow awesome looking fish. Once the big tank gets put in and becomes very well established.. maybe I'll have to snag one. Maybe in a year (*cry*).

[snorvich]

There are a couple of possible pitfalls to keeping these tank bred fish:

1. Just because they will eat pellets, doesn't mean they will know how to forage for pods between feedings. Mandarins need to eat pretty much constantly. If these fish still have the instinct for hunting, they will still need a quantity of live rock and/or a specific breeding ground for pods such as a refugium.

2. Feeding pellets once or twice a day will not sustain a Mandarin. They are timid eaters and they can't compete with other fish in your tank for pellets. Unless you have the time and patience to target feed these pellets directly in the vicinity of the Mandarin many times a day, I'm not sure the survival rate of the tank bred fish will be any better than wild caught ones. It may be necessary to overfeed your tank in order to keep these Mandarins alive. I'd like to hear opinions about these Ora fish from other reefers who are successfully keeping wild Mandarins and are familiar with their habits.

I agree with Eileen. But there is a third problem as well: if you have other fish in the tank, you will have difficulty getting food enough times per day to the mandarin as other fish will hunt better.

[Chelsey]

Has anyone else noticed that all of the fish pictured (with the possible exception of one) are female? I wonder if ORA has been able to get around the problems with male aggression...

[snorvich]

Has anyone else noticed that all of the fish pictured (with the possible exception of one) are female? I wonder if ORA has been able to get around the problems with male aggression...

How can anyone reprogram the brain of an animal?

[hoffy02]

How can anyone reprogram the brain of an animal?

not by changing the brain but selective harvesting maybe? knowing the sex or "deciding" the sex... crazy!

[greech]

This may have been asked already but I am heading to MACNA for the first time this year and I assume ORA will be there. Does anyone know if ORA sells fish direct to the public at these events or it just a display?

[fraggleRocks]

OMFG it was eating pellets?? *** thats like unheard of! Awesome!

thats insane! And here I am, about a year with the new tank, waiting patiently to make sure I have a mature enough system that would be able to properly provide for one (no, seriously, I still stalk the copepods and isopods with a mini flashlight and a red shirt at night to see if the population is still growing, also got rid of my sock filter for a while to make sure they would stay and reproduce in the DT) AND NOW THIS. :hmm3:

[fraggleRocks]

I diddnt even know it existed before this thread...:celeb1:

[GhostCon1]

I was told by my LFS that they were coming out in June and around $100

[Amoore311]

i wonder what the long term effects will be on them not eating the food theyre designed and been feeding on for hundreds of years

I would venture to guess they will do as well as every other marine fish that doesn't eat the food they're "designed" to eat (ie. almost all fish that are kept in the hobby).

Watchman gobies, for example, don't eat much fresh water mysis shrimp and NLS Pellets in the wild I would venture to guess. Mines been fat and happy for 3 years with that diet haha.


I was told by my LFS that they were coming out in June and around $100

I'm all for taking the burden off our oceans to supply these creatures. I highly doubt many are going to sell at that price point though. If it's $100 for a pair that would make a bit more sense.

[LobsterOfJustice]

Has anyone else noticed that all of the fish pictured (with the possible exception of one) are female? I wonder if ORA has been able to get around the problems with male aggression...

These fish are all young and small. I would guess that they are either protogynous hermaphrodites (so no males exist at small sizes) or are just underdeveloped (i.e. "pre-puberty") males.

[b2d2t]

it would be cool to get a mated pair!

[basser1]

They are selling for $50 bucks, about what I'd figured they would sell for.

[sfboarders]

$50 is a deal. Do you know if you can pick certain sizes and the sex of the fish?

[Cerebral Fish]

There are a couple of possible pitfalls to keeping these tank bred fish:

1. Just because they will eat pellets, doesn't mean they will know how to forage for pods between feedings. Mandarins need to eat pretty much constantly. If these fish still have the instinct for hunting, they will still need a quantity of live rock and/or a specific breeding ground for pods such as a refugium.
Captive bred mandarins are raised on live foods from hatching until they are large enough to be weaned onto prepared foods. Matthew Wittenrich, the breeder that inspired ORA to do mandarins, said in his thread at MOFIB not to feed the weaned mandarins too much live food or it might break the weaning. Apparently they still prefer life food over prepared.

As for pellets not being enough to sustain a mandarin, that sounds like pure speculation IMO. If supplemental live food is needed probably depends on several factors such as the pellet's nutritional content, the presence of aggressive eaters, the number of daily feedings, etc.


2. Feeding pellets once or twice a day will not sustain a Mandarin. They are timid eaters and they can't compete with other fish in your tank for pellets. Unless you have the time and patience to target feed these pellets directly in the vicinity of the Mandarin many times a day, I'm not sure the survival rate of the tank bred fish will be any better than wild caught ones. It may be necessary to overfeed your tank in order to keep these Mandarins alive. I'd like to hear opinions about these Ora fish from other reefers who are successfully keeping wild Mandarins and are familiar with their habits.
That is true of wild caught mandarins as well. They simply can't compete with many other fish for food. But with a mandarin that's been weaned onto pellets you could construct something like Melev's mandarin diner to keep out the aggressive fish - that's not possible with a mandarin that only eats live foods.

As for surviving better then wild caught mandarins - that's up in the air until enough people get CB ones to make a judgement. But I'd suggest that the captive bred would probably survive better for a few reasons. They are more likely to eat prepared foods, they are used to aquarium life and have a positive association with humans, they aren't skewered with a needle, lower shipping stress, they aren't exposed to as wide a range of marine parasites, etc.

[Chelsey]

How can anyone reprogram the brain of an animal?

Get around the male aggression problems by raising each male individually in a separate container tied together (acrylic run wholesaler type setup) or just put everyone in a large tank and end up with however many males can set up territories.

[Nemo Niblets]

I trained my own mandarin to eat frozen mysis from a small pipette out of my hand. They are very smart, and if you are consistent, they will go to their feeding spot the same time every day, and wait. I never tried pellet foods, but I had a baby food jar I lay down in the corner of the tank. I eventually could squirt 10-15 mysis in the jar, and he would just swim in and grab the food.

So if he's adapted to pellets already, you just get one to go in the jar. I sustained mine for 6 months in my nano feeding once a day, sometimes skipping a day. He was never skinny.

With enough commitment mandarins will be fine in a small tank with only pellet feedings. Of course, the more pods you can give it the better... and this is only a good idea for the dedicated hobbyist. After 6 months of feeding my mandarin, it become a chore, so I sold it to somebody with a bigger tank that could give him a better home.

[basser1]

Good to see you nemo...... ;)

[Shift_9k]

Anyone gotten their hands on one yet?

[ser_renely]

Great to see. I would gather 49-59 would good pricing from my pov.

How they going about the males?

[GPhiAce]

Anyone gotten their hands on one yet?

Anyone???

So has anyone tried or can you put different species of mandasrins in the same tank?? Like have a blue and spotted in the same tank? Also, as far as male and females or pairs in general, can you/ should you get ones of different sizes??

[sweet d]

so these are out how is everyones doing so far we need updates.

[parrthed]

Mine is still doing great, he eats like a champ. I moved him to my 75 mixed reef. It has no problem coming out to grab flakes and pellets when I feed the tank. It is not even scared of my clownfish pair. I see him all the time, I am really enjoying this fish alot.

[EllieSuz]

parrthed, does your Ora Mandarin hunt? Have you observed him searching and eating pods? I'm very curious to see whether this hunting behavior is instinctual.

[parrthed]

I see him cruising around the base of the rockwork alot, kind of hovering over the nooks and crannies. He goes behind the rocks pretty often. When I first got him I had him in my old seahorse tank the was heavily populated with pods. I did notice him eating some in there. Since I moved him to the 75 he has been acting like any other mandarin I have had but he isnt as reclusive.

[SilverGTS]

awesome can't wait to get one for my nano!

[Romewhip]

They will be hitting our local LFS this week, only 2 per order coming in. They'll retail somewhere around $70, and are target mandarins.

[aykim2188]

$70? the range is ridiculous. People are getting them for $50 but are these other stores trying to cash in on the hype?

[sslak]

$70? the range is ridiculous. People are getting them for $50 but are these other stores trying to cash in on the hype?

Depends heavily on WHERE you live. In Wisconsin wild caught Mandarins are 34-40 dollars. Areas with lower populations have higher prices due to lower demand, and a smaller market of people in the hobby. The stores need more markup to stay profitable.

It's economics.

You can't say it's rediculous just because the price is higher than the fish stores in LA or San Diego, as with anything it's all about supply and demand.

[CJO]

My local LFS just got a target one in and sold it within a couple of hours for $100. I know him personally and he's not making much money off of it, so I don't know if different stores get them at different prices based on their business at ORA or if the earlier ones weren't ORAs.

CJ

[Cerebral Fish]

Good to hear that you got a mostly normal fish, Parrthed.

There are new entries at glassbox design and RB about these fish. From Parrthed's experience and ORA's comments it appears that these fish have an instinctual hunting behavior, but the shyness is learned. So you may see these beautiful fish out in the open more then the wild caught ones, but you may have to be more careful about tankmate selection.

As for price, I feel that it is too high. I am willing to pay a premium for captive bred fish. And I realize that breeding fish isn't a high margin business. But most people buy based on low price, even if the more expensive CB fish is less shy, more adaptable to prepared foods, used to aquarium life, used to human interaction, etc. For aquaculture to succeed there has to be a dual effort of reducing production costs and educating prospective owners about the advantages.

[Romewhip]

$70? the range is ridiculous. People are getting them for $50 but are these other stores trying to cash in on the hype?

That's Seattle area, Washington state. Everything is more expensive here, unfortunately.

[aykim2188]

Depends heavily on WHERE you live. In Wisconsin wild caught Mandarins are 34-40 dollars. Areas with lower populations have higher prices due to lower demand, and a smaller market of people in the hobby. The stores need more markup to stay profitable.

It's economics.

You can't say it's rediculous just because the price is higher than the fish stores in LA or San Diego, as with anything it's all about supply and demand.
I can see $70 being somewhat reasonable if you're tyring to take high costs of living into account but the range has been from $50 to $100. That IS ridiculous.
Lol it's ironic that I'm an econ major. I don't think it has anything to do with population density. The idea Lower populations having lower demand is an assumption that holds a fallacy. Sellers try to maximize profit based upon what the demand is in that area. I go to school in Champaign so I obviously get my fish there. There are two main LFS that sell the exact same products and from asking them personally I also heard that they receive their fish from the EXACT same source. The stores sell the fish at extremely different costs though. Example: ORA true percs are $25 at store A while its $15 at store B. Mandarins are $35 at Store A and $20 at store B. These two stores are about 4 miles apart. You wonder how store A competes considering they charge more for the same fish from the same suppliers. It's because store A focuses on fish only while store B also provides services for other hobbies. Image is what keeps store A going.

You are correct in that obviously it is about supply and demand but at the same time your backing of that idea is somewhat incorrect. The high range of prices is not due to cost effective measures taken by lfs but its simply because of demand only. A store can easily sell this mandarin for $100 now because it just hit the market and everyone still wants them. Based upon basic market forecast theories this will be proven to be evident in this case when the prices of the mandarins WILL go down after 4-5 months. Sellers always say "they're the middleman and they're just covering their costs," but in reality they are there to maximize their profit at the expense of your wallet :D.

As the guy stated the fish was being sold for $70 in Seattle, Washington and $100 in Charlotte, North Carolina which in regards to you are major cities. I guess you can take cost of living into account but that will not cause the fish to be sold at twice the amount that other stores are selling it at. No matter how you look at it you can't justify a fish costing $100 compared to the same fish being sold for $50 due to small populations and location. The mandarin that is being sold for $50 was in a town in Indiana and the mandarin that is being sold for $70 in Seattle and $100 in Charlotte. It is not the "small" size of the population that is affecting the high costs. As I stated before it is due to high mark ups taking place because of high demand.

LFS want to make money too lol.

[aykim2188]

Good to hear that you got a mostly normal fish, Parrthed.

As for price, I feel that it is too high. I am willing to pay a premium for captive bred fish. And I realize that breeding fish isn't a high margin business. But most people buy based on low price, even if the more expensive CB fish is less shy, more adaptable to prepared foods, used to aquarium life, used to human interaction, etc. For aquaculture to succeed there has to be a dual effort of reducing production costs and educating prospective owners about the advantages.

I also agree but I don't think it's the production cost that is causing fish to be sold at such a high price. This is clear when one lfs can sell the fish for $50 while the other sells the same fish for $100. The LFS themselves are the ones who are just trying to maximize their profits based upon their location and demand. Prices will eventually go down but as of now they can charge ridiculous amount and people will pay.

[silence88]

are these for sale from any online vendors yet???

[Gobie74]

Acclimating mine right now :)

[Mr.leee]

im sure this fish cost 15-20$ whole sell, and to sell them at 100$...i would not buy. a LFS here in MN is selling them for 50$ also.

[Cerebral Fish]

are these for sale from any online vendors yet???
They are listed on saltwaterfish for $60: http://www.saltwaterfish.com/ORA-Aquacultured-Mandarin-Dragonet--Spotted_p_3659.html#tablist

[sslak]

im sure this fish cost 15-20$ whole sell, and to sell them at 100$...i would not buy. a LFS here in MN is selling them for 50$ also.

Personally I would pay the price just to prevent that one more fish from being harvested from our oceans. I wish all fish could be captive bred...unfortunately some people only care about $$$.

[jefathome]

A store can easily sell this mandarin for $100 now because it just hit the market and everyone still wants them. Based upon basic market forecast theories this will be proven to be evident in this case when the prices of the mandarins WILL go down after 4-5 months. Sellers always say "they're the middleman and they're just covering their costs," but in reality they are there to maximize their profit at the expense of your wallet :D..

OMG... New Mandarin Hornets!! I'll frag you one for $100 per fin.
:hmm3:

[stegasoma]

$50.00 is much too cheap.....to the point of being demeaning to the effort put into the breeding, limited availability, cost, and box and shipping charges a retailer pays.

[olemiss reb]

$50 in Baton Rouge, picked mine up earlier today

[aykim2188]

$50.00 is much too cheap.....to the point of being demeaning to the effort put into the breeding, limited availability, cost, and box and shipping charges a retailer pays.

I don't see how thats the case. ORA have been trying to breed mandarins for awhile and now they have made it possible where their marginal revenue is much higher then marginal cost. it is also not limited availability considering ORA has wait till July (original set time was June) to make sure quantity would meet the first open market demand. Cost,boxing, and shipping charges are meaningless when compared to a $50 fish. Many fish are sold for much less and they cost the same to box and ship. ORA will make it seem like there is a limited availability right now soley to raise demand and consumers willingness to pay. It is a basic economic tactic. $50 is more then enough for profit for retailers who are being supplied by ORA. LFS are here to help consumers yes but they will also do it while maximizing THEIR profits as well :D

[MvM]

Well mine was acclimated yesterday and has ignored rods food and spectrum pellets, despite them landing on and near him. I hope they eat pellets like advertised....
Also, $50 is more than fair (if they actually eat the pellets)...

[velvetelvis]

Personally I would pay the price just to prevent that one more fish from being harvested from our oceans. I wish all fish could be captive bred...unfortunately some people only care about $$$.

I agree. This isn't the ideal hobby for people who have to count every single penny.

[pweissma]

Personally I would pay the price just to prevent that one more fish from being harvested from our oceans. I wish all fish could be captive bred...unfortunately some people only care about $$$.

Absolutely right -- we need more people like you -- but your numbers are WAY off. The ratio is far more depressing than 1-1. I would really appreciate if someone could fill in the numbers but for every fish that makes it to your dealer's display tank many many more die being brought to the surface, in transit, and after arriving.

[njudson]

Has anyone gotten their hands on an ORA Green Mandarin yet? (Synchiropus splendidus)
Also I would love to see some pics of the ORA mandarins people have gotten so far!

[rgonzalez]

I thought they were only selling the spotted mandarins?

[CJO]

I don't think that the red or green mandarins have been released yet, just the spotted. I'm supposed to get the first red male that my LFS gets in.

CJ

[rgonzalez]

I'm getting my spotted one today. I'm friggin stoked!!

[GhostCon1]

I asked Bio-Reef here in Jax if they received any of the red types and they said no, ORA only sent them the 'target' ones.

They said hopefully their shipment this week will have some of them in it.

Maybe ORA is just being stingey :P

I never have liked the look of the target ones, but I saw the ORA ones and... WOW, they did look amazing.

[rgonzalez]

So here's the video of my guy swimming in his bag prior to being placed in the tank:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t7n6MKyZAo

[rgonzalez]

And here's a pic of him in the tank:

[alex93se]

Here's a picture of my ORA mandarin. He's tiny. The picture is of him, in a standard sized dixie cup, getting ready to be placed in my frag tank.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_icIJXBmW7Yk/TD22_4qfYnI/AAAAAAAAANU/j8_PSWRExyc/s640/IMG_4893.jpg

[AnayaReef]

Oh my, that is tiny!!! I can't wait to get a pair of green ones....

[Iwishihadgills]

They are $35 for me :)

[AnayaReef]

They are $35 for me :)

Nobody likes a bragger, lol. Just kidding :) You are very fortunate. Did you get one?

[rgonzalez]

Has anyone seen one of these little guys eat pellets?

[rgonzalez]

They are $35 for me :)

I'm better looking that you. My point?

Who cares. Ha!

[olemiss reb]

Has anyone seen one of these little guys eat pellets?

Mine ignores pellets(NLS small fish formula). Follows mysid but never seems to take any. Hopefully it will take one or the other soon as pods are limited in his tank. I was really banking on the "accepting pellets" aspect.

[edwing206]

I'm a better speller THAN you. My point?

Who cares?! ;)
I'm better looking that you. My point?

Who cares. Ha!

[njudson]

Thanks for sharing the pics guys. Good luck with your fish!

[rgonzalez]

I'm a better speller THAN you. My point?

Who cares?! ;)

You mean better in grammar? My point?

Who cares =D

[rgonzalez]

Mine ignores pellets(NLS small fish formula). Follows mysid but never seems to take any. Hopefully it will take one or the other soon as pods are limited in his tank. I was really banking on the "accepting pellets" aspect.

How long has he been in the tank?

[olemiss reb]

How long has he been in the tank?

Added last Wed. 7-7-10

[jusn317]

I also haven't noticed my mandarin eating any pellets yet. Does look like he is picking at pods on the rock and sand though.

[d0ughb0y]

did you ask lfs to show you the fish eating pellets? since that's the whole point of paying the premium.

[rgonzalez]

did you ask lfs to show you the fish eating pellets? since that's the whole point of paying the premium.

They don't leave ORA to be shipped unless they eat pellets.

[d0ughb0y]

yes we can say that, but the fish is still shipped and can be stressed, so its usually good practice to ask LFS to show you the (expensive) fish is eating, more so if the LFS has no money back guarantee policy.

[edwing206]

Haha. I figured you just misspelled "than" lol.


You mean better in grammar? My point?

Who cares =D


Anyways, I don't think I'll be getting one of these guys soon. Both my LFS that I frequent are asking $75. Seems pretty steep considering the point of CB is to somewhat relieve the collections pressure on wild fish. At least to me anyways.

I know if I ever get any of my fish to produce viable offspring I'll be selling them for a lot less than WC.
-Luis

[AnayaReef]

Not to mention, not all LFS are on the up and up, whose to say they aren't simply claiming ORA and charging a higher premium? Something to think about...

[kaiboshi]

Has anyone had any luck getting their tiny targets to eat anything? I've tried the spectrum pellets that ORA uses but to no avail. I've tried spirulina brine, mysis, crushed flake and the pellets and the mandarin doesn't even bat an eyelash so to speak. I've currently got him in a pond basket in my sump (my lfs guy suggested I make sure he is eating prepared food before releasing him into my DT) and there are all sorts of pods crawling around in the basket but he hasn't touched them either (at least under my watch). I've had him since sunday (7/11) and I don't think he's had anything to eat yet...

Any advice?

[rgonzalez]

Not to mention, not all LFS are on the up and up, whose to say they aren't simply claiming ORA and charging a higher premium? Something to think about...

You can check with ORA who is licensed.

[rgonzalez]

Has anyone had any luck getting their tiny targets to eat anything? I've tried the spectrum pellets that ORA uses but to no avail. I've tried spirulina brine, mysis, crushed flake and the pellets and the mandarin doesn't even bat an eyelash so to speak. I've currently got him in a pond basket in my sump (my lfs guy suggested I make sure he is eating prepared food before releasing him into my DT) and there are all sorts of pods crawling around in the basket but he hasn't touched them either (at least under my watch). I've had him since sunday (7/11) and I don't think he's had anything to eat yet...

Any advice?

How long have you been watching? Maybe he's eating pods while you're not around? I haven't seen my guy eat anything yet. He stays in his part of the tank and hangs around. It hasn't been 2 days yet, so I'm not too worried.

Or maybe we all just got hosed :)

[Gobie74]

Here's mine. He's been in there for a week now...

http://api.photoshop.com/home_f1a908e3f22f4ebd83873a4c699a30b7/adobe-px-assets/cff4378326f945eaad698a1ff0d32da7

[rgonzalez]

Have you seen him eat Gobie74?

[Gobie74]

I saw him picking at things the first day or two, but haven't actually witnessed anything lately, although i keep trying to feed him pellets. The bristle worms sure appreciate it tho :)

[rgonzalez]

Yea, mine isn't eating any prepared foods yet. I've read on other boards they are having the same problem. I think if this keeps happening to a bunch of people I am going to organize a mass protest against ORA.

Don't promise something you can't deliver.

[irishtrig1]

Oh this could get ugly fast..............

[edwing206]

I smell a class action lawsuit!

Just joking. I hope they really do take prepared foods readily. Maybe ORA rushed things a bit?

[darnocobra]

For those of you that have them, did you QT them or add them straight to display?

[rgonzalez]

If they did rush things, not only are they wasting peoples money in this terrible economy, but they're also killing innocent animals for their own profit.

[Ben34105]

Acclimated mine yesterday mid afternoon. They had 2 at my LFS and they wouldn't eat pellets there, but they had just came in 4 hours prior. Selling them for $50.

Hasn't eaten a pellet, live brine, dead brine, cyclo or mysis. I use a straw to put pellets on the sand and count how many I put. Still there. He just swims around like a normal mandarin and sits on the sand. Haven't even seen him pick at rocks. Not sure what I'm going to do. There's so many different types of food to try in his tank it looks like a snow globe!

[rgonzalez]

Ben, you're not alone. I'm going on 48 hours since my little guy has been in the tank. He swims by the food. The pellets drop near him and he has no interest. I'm going to keep trying, but it is frustrating to see that lots of people are having this same problem.

[kaiboshi]

For those of you that have them, did you QT them or add them straight to display?

Mine is still in QT sorta. Like I said he's in a container in my refugium so it's the same water from my system but he is seperate to ensure that he actually DOES eat prepared food. I'm not too worried about it carrying disease I just want to establish some kind of feeding response or pattern to aid his survival. I'm 100% confident my tank can support a wild mandarin so a tank bred mandarin SHOULD be fine but who knows. I'm going to try to contact ORA tommorrow and see what they recommend. My current plan is to simply add the mandarin to my DT if he refuses to eat prepared food and treat him just like a wild mandarin. It's a major disappointment but hopefully I won't lose the little guy.

Another thing I've noticed is that he isn't very active. He'll sit in the same spot for long stretches of time instead of hunting around like a wild mandarin would. Has anyone else noticed this? I know some fish are finnicky with transitions so maybe this particular batch is acting goofy (not eating or being very active) because they haven't settled in to all the different routines they are now being forced to adjust to?

Any thoughts?

[rgonzalez]

Kaiboshi,

My little guy sits in the same spot for a long time as well. He has relegated himself to the back left corner of the tank. He's not scared or breathing hard. Let us know what ORA says tomorrow when you call. If they give you the same crap about feeding him different oyster eggs or blood worms, tell them that it's not working.

[Cerebral Fish]

Here is a post by one of the first recipients of a green mandarin from Matthew Wittenrich (the breeder that inspired all this) and his response about weaning on prepared foods:

http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=30422#p30422

Hopefully they have just had their weaning broken by the availability of live foods or stress of shipping and will remember prepared foods when they get hungry enough. Of course that was with Synchiropus splendidus not Synchiropus picturatus, but I hope that helps you guys.

[kaiboshi]

Just got off the phone with ORA. Very nice people actually.

They told me that they are feeding them Ova and supposedly posted a video of them eating like pigs today, I have yet to track that down.

I was instructed to release my mandarin into my DT so he could get used to the new environment and whatnot. He will supposedly eat pods and behave naturally over feeding on prepared foods however if for some reason the pod population is depleted he will revert to frozen foods.

A tip the guy gave me with blood worms is to chop them up a bit, dunno if that'll help or not but I guess I can try it.

Apparently ORA had the exact same issues we are having when they took the baby mandarins to a show recently. They didn't eat at the show but after a few days of being back in their home at ORA they were eating normally again. It's just a matter of time for them to adjust.

So I'm going to release mine into my DT and see how it goes, fingers crossed.

[Ben34105]

If they told me the part about the DT and eating pods I would have told them to refund me the difference in price between a WC and their designer CB!

[Beaun]

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Found this on reef builders today, cool little video at the ORA facility.

[kaiboshi]

The ORA guy DID say they were eating like pigs at the facility.

[melanotaenia]

If that video is supposed to show them eating like pigs, I don't see the connection. They are eating, sure, but they are not voraciously tearing that food up at all. A lot of them do not even seem that interested.

[lcs]

I think the ones that don't look interested are eating what fell to the bottom of the container.

Feeding them like that in a small, shallow container is fine, but how will they fair in a large display?

[Ben34105]

I had the guy at my LFS call ORA today and talk to them. They referred him to the video. He called the supplier about OVA and they said it was prawn eggs and it's not exactly cheap. OVA is a far cry from pellets.

Some good news, the other mandarin at the fish store that hasn't sold yet started eating live brine today. I'll try again to see if mine will eat the brine.

[Cerebral Fish]

Ova are just an intermediate step for weaning them back onto pellets, not a long term food.

[Beaun]

If that video is supposed to show them eating like pigs, I don't see the connection. They are eating, sure, but they are not voraciously tearing that food up at all. A lot of them do not even seem that interested.

If you are expecting mandarins to attack food like clownfish then you are always going to be unimpressed.

[velvetelvis]

If they told me the part about the DT and eating pods I would have told them to refund me the difference in price between a WC and their designer CB!

Captive-bred and "designer" aren't the same thing. These fish have been bred and raised in captivity, but they're not an artificially created color morph or pattern.

[auem]

i think either ORA hyped it or hobbyists overhyped it themself....
this captive raise mandarins perhaps much more hardy and sustainable in aquaria and may in the long run chose more variety of foods than WC one..but it seems they won't take up pellet and flakes any soon,as some people expected...

[kaiboshi]

If you are expecting mandarins to attack food like clownfish then you are always going to be unimpressed.

I never expected them to respond like clowns, however, I DID expect a response in general. It's clear from the video that they know what is what I just have yet to see any response like that from my mandarin.

I threw mine in my DT like was suggested and if he survives (which I assume he will) then I am happy that I didn't take another mandarin off a reef somewhere.

[angelsil]

I'm waiting to see what happens before I get one of these because if they can't survive on prepared foods, I don't want to keep one in my current setup. I've very successfully kept pairs in larger tanks but I only have a 35g currently and there just isn't enough live food.

It'll be a real shame if these CB mandarins don't take to pellets and frozen. While it's great to reduce the pressure on the wild population, if the CB fish are still doomed to starve that's just shifting the tragedy.

[snorvich]

When you buy a fish and keep an aquarium, do you do so because you can have that fish survive? Or do you attempt to simulate the natural environment within which that fish lives? Remember, in a display tank, unless there are no competitors, almost all fish will out compete a mandarin for food. So, are you going to overfeed so the mandarin will get some? Do you really want your fish sitting around waiting for the next meal?

[Ben34105]

Captive-bred and "designer" aren't the same thing. These fish have been bred and raised in captivity, but they're not an artificially created color morph or pattern.

They allegedly altered what they typically eat for food. In my book that's designer.

As for mine, tried more live brine yesterday along with cut up blood worms and pellets. It's in a tank on my desk and I've watched him for hours on end. Haven't seen him eat yet. Anyone else having luck?

[snorvich]

They allegedly altered what they typically eat for food. In my book that's designer.

As for mine, tried more live brine yesterday along with cut up blood worms and pellets. It's in a tank on my desk and I've watched him for hours on end. Haven't seen him eat yet. Anyone else having luck?

My WC eats mysis, you might consider that.

[Cerebral Fish]

When you buy a fish and keep an aquarium, do you do so because you can have that fish survive? Or do you attempt to simulate the natural environment within which that fish lives? Remember, in a display tank, unless there are no competitors, almost all fish will out compete a mandarin for food. So, are you going to overfeed so the mandarin will get some? Do you really want your fish sitting around waiting for the next meal?
Many fish will out compete a mandarin for food regardless of being WC or CB. That's why careful tankmate selection is important, even for the CB fish. And if you didn't then you can still construct something like a mandarin diner, but only if your fish accepts prepared foods that will stay inside.

They allegedly altered what they typically eat for food. In my book that's designer.
It's not designer, it's just training. Wild caught fish can be trained to eat prepared foods as well - not all of them will so you might have to kill a few before you get one that does.

[melanotaenia]

If you are expecting mandarins to attack food like clownfish then you are always going to be unimpressed.


I would not expect clownfish feeding behavior. But I have seen healthy long term mandarins during feeding time and the term eating like pigs is associated with much more lively feeding when compared to the babies in the video. I do see that they are feeding and know that there is food there, but the term eating like pigs is not really appropriate. I hope people who keep these guys realize that their genes are the same as WC specimens, and thus some of their natural feeding habits will remain regardless of their place of breeding/rearing.

They are by no means easy fish.

[DFason]

Here's mine. He is eating the Nutramar Ova just like the little guys in the video above. I think people need to remember that they are stressed out and may take a few days to eat. Mine took 4-5 days before it would take anything.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss230/DFason/IMG_5289.jpg
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss230/DFason/IMG_5309.jpg

Video : Little guy in the middle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpssOElTbqk

Hope you enjoy!

-Dave

[angelsil]

That's excellent Dave! You have a similar size tank as me, so its good to see yours has settled in.

[DFason]

Thanks angelsil. Everyone just needs to give it some time. They will come around!

-Dave

[velvetelvis]

:thumbsup: Good news!

[iloveinn]

Let the dust settles before drawing conclusions :). I'm glad that this IS an option for us now.

[reidcrandall]

They allegedly altered what they typically eat for food. In my book that's designer.

As for mine, tried more live brine yesterday along with cut up blood worms and pellets. It's in a tank on my desk and I've watched him for hours on end. Haven't seen him eat yet. Anyone else having luck?

They didn't really alter the fish in any way to get them to do this. They just trained the fish to eat something different. You can train any dog eat things and do tricks, but you can't train a black lab to be a golden doodle.

That being said, they did sell a fish that was supposedly trained in some sort of behavior, so it's not like you have no ground to stand on.

I hope you're having luck getting your guy to eat.

I'm hoping to get a pair of the splendid when they come out. But reading this, I am rethinking. I may just put some rock in my QT, let pods take over, and then train a WC to eat prepared. It's been done.

[JettStorm]

My local LFS just got their first ORA "tank raised" mandarin on Friday. Looks healthy, but I am just as curious/interested as the next person. Will check in every day or two and see how things are. (price tag is $74.99---2 - 2.5" long)

[MvM]

Mine has been eating spectrum pellets. Not a ton, but he's eating a few at every feeding. 1-2 times per day.

[vwtanker]

Ours are eating chopped mysis, blood worms and brine. Haven't tried the pellets yet. Lots of effort was put into producing these fish. Do you really think ORA is culturing live foods for thousands of fish in a grow out situation, and then lied to everyone just to make a few bucks. Take a chill pill, let the fish settle down and put as much effort into the fish as you have getting ****ed off at ORA. If you don't like it continue to support harvesting which harms natural habitats and devalues our hobby.

[vwtanker]

Thats awesome MvM, I'll have to try the pellets on mine.

[Ben34105]

Mine is doing a lot of yawning today. I'm keeping up with the chopped blood worms, live brine and pellets. So far I haven't witnessed it eating anything, but my clean up crew is getting fat!

[CMcNeil]

ive got one on hold at my LFS,it came in this week but i want him to settle down from shipping and be eating before i bring it home.i cant wait to get this fish home,it all goes well ill be getting one for my girlfriends tank as well.

[Iwishihadgills]

Nobody likes a bragger, lol. Just kidding :) You are very fortunate. Did you get one?
No not yet lol my lfs hooks me up all the time with good prices :)

[IFbettas]

I would not buy one of the ORA mandarins because they are supposed to be eating prepared food, but rather for the fact that they were born in captivity. IME, almost any dragonet can be trained to eat some form of prepared food given enough time and a proper environment. So far it appears that the ORA mandarins are not overly enthusiastic about eating prepared foods, however, that could change as time progresses.

I also think that mandarins which accept prepared food should still be kept in larger systems with an abundance of live foods. Just because a mandarin accepts pellets doesn't make it an easy fish to keep in a small tank. IMO, I would not want to keep one of these fish in a tank smaller than 75 gallons even if they are eating well.

Whether they eat prepared food or not, I'm going to be getting a pair of these after my new tank is set-up.

[eamike261]

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Found this on reef builders today, cool little video at the ORA facility.

Woah thats a lot of mandarins in 1 spot, i thought you could only have 1 in a tank together...maybe that changed when they became tank bred?

[njudson]

these are likely all females

[rgonzalez]

Ours are eating chopped mysis, blood worms and brine. Haven't tried the pellets yet. Lots of effort was put into producing these fish. Do you really think ORA is culturing live foods for thousands of fish in a grow out situation, and then lied to everyone just to make a few bucks. Take a chill pill, let the fish settle down and put as much effort into the fish as you have getting ****ed off at ORA. If you don't like it continue to support harvesting which harms natural habitats and devalues our hobby.

Easy for you to say since yours is one of the few that is actually eating. Before you tell everyone else to take a chill pill, try to put yourself in their shoes. If you went to buy a 3-D TV, took it home, hooked it up, and it only showed 2-D, wouldn't you be upset?

Again, no one is saying they are NOT supporting what ORA is doing, it is the claims that the MG's are ready to eat prepared foods which people are upset over. Get your information right and try to add to the forum instead of subtract.

[sslak]

Are you guys feeding with pumps off, ZERO flow?

Just because they eat pellets doesn't mean they can chase the food through the current...they're still mandarins.

[sslak]

Woah thats a lot of mandarins in 1 spot, i thought you could only have 1 in a tank together...maybe that changed when they became tank bred?

They're juviniles. It's completely different keeping sexually immature fish together compared to adults.

It's the same reason you can keep 30 juvinile clownfish in a tank at a fish store. None of them are sexually mature. Competition for mates is what causes agression.

[eamike261]

They're juviniles. It's completely different keeping sexually immature fish together compared to adults.

It's the same reason you can keep 30 juvinile clownfish in a tank at a fish store. None of them are sexually mature. Competition for mates is what causes agression.

Interesting, never knew that, learning something new every day!

[ShawnKPD]

Looks promising to me! +1 for the juvenile being kept together. I have a mature female green mandarin and nearly killed our adolesent male green mandarin. My lesson learned here was if you don't add the group of mandarin together in your tank you better just stick with the one. Also, these mandarin are eating good, but there's no other fish in there with them. They won't usually eat with other fish. They like to be isolated.

[pendraig]

I just picked one up at Green Marine last Friday. "She" (looks like a small, more colorful version of my female Scooter Dragonet) lived in my live rock, pod laden fuge over the weekend. Did not see her eat (tried Cyclopeze and crushed Spectrum 1mm pellets) like most who posted here...and was getting worried.

http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv12/pguevara74/Elos70/PsychedelicMandarin.jpg

I moved her into my DT today, and she made herself comfortable in a large cave in the low flow center of a gyre. I picked up some Spectrum Thera+A 0.5mm small pellets, which were the only small pellets I was able to find locally (Aquarium Concepts) in such short notice. Dropped a bunch about an hour ago. To my relief, I noticed that she was grazing on some of the pellets that settled in the center gyre (in the cave).

So far so good...

http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv12/pguevara74/Elos70/FOtheraformulaSM1.jpg

[CJO]

I just picked one up at Green Marine last Friday. "She" (looks like a small, more colorful version of my female Scooter Dragonet) lived in my live rock, pod laden fuge over the weekend. Did not see her eat (tried Cyclopeze and crushed Spectrum 1mm pellets) like most who posted here...and was getting worried.

http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv12/pguevara74/Elos70/PsychedelicMandarin.jpg


Glad to hear that yours is eating. However, "she" looks like a "he" to me!

CJ

[Mr.leee]

i was just wondering, has ORA stated some where that they will eat pellet? or was this just a hype the community made up?

[Whisperer]

Glad to hear that yours is eating. However, "she" looks like a "he" to me!

CJ
"She"'s a she I think.

[Ben34105]

i was just wondering, has ORA stated some where that they will eat pellet? or was this just a hype the community made up?

My LFS had a flyer that's how I knew what kind of pellet to buy. Still haven't seen it eat a pellet, but it's still alive so it's eating something. I had to do a water change yesterday because I was getting hair algae from putting so much stuff in there trying to get the little guy to eat.

[melanotaenia]

Looking forward to some long term reports on these little guys!!!

[velvetelvis]

I picked up one of these little guys today. He was very active in the store and picking at the rocks and walls a bit, also ate a little cyclopeez when they added it. He is a little skinny, but my tank has pods galore, so hopefully this plus the cyclopeez will whet his appetite. *crossing fingers*

[chasekwe]

Has anybody heard an ETA on when the Greens (Synchiropus splendidus) are being released yet? The initial news releases said that they'd be coming out in limited quantity at the same time as the Target but I haven't seen word of any.

[vwtanker]

Easy for you to say since yours is one of the few that is actually eating. Before you tell everyone else to take a chill pill, try to put yourself in their shoes. If you went to buy a 3-D TV, took it home, hooked it up, and it only showed 2-D, wouldn't you be upset?

Again, no one is saying they are NOT supporting what ORA is doing, it is the claims that the MG's are ready to eat prepared foods which people are upset over. Get your information right and try to add to the forum instead of subtract.

I don't see how my opinion subtracts from this forum. Had the forum been titled "I hate ORA" I could see why you would feel this way. My statement was valid and reasonable, and I will continue to support ORA. In my opinion they and the other companies who use captive breeding and aquaculture to support our hobby are the future. Slowly we are destroying our world and will no longer have reefs to plunder.
So keep complaining, pointing fingers, and trying to relate living animals to your high priced electronics. Anyone who treats fish like objects "designed" to work one way or another does not deserve to have one.

[pweissma]

Got mine yesterday. With all the reported feeding problems I'm not totally sure it was a good decision but I support ORA in their efforts to reduce the taking of fish from reefs. I should have enough pods in my Solana to keep him fed at least in the beginning and probably longer. Like practically everyone else mine is sitting on the bottom moving occasionally and looking calm.

[pendraig]

It's been one week now since I took home my ORA Spotted Mandarin. It has been "buzzing" around my live rock structure, and it even swam to the surface a bit too close to one of my EcoTech MP-10s for comfort. I did not think I needed to keep the foam covers on the MP-10s based on what I have read so far. It's a very curious mandarin (much more so than the 2 WCs I had). It also got a little to close to the siphon tube and get sucked in when I was cleaning ALL the extra detritus from all the Spectrum pellets I made available in my tank for grazing.

So far so good...:thumbsup:

[velvetelvis]

I didn't see my little guy this morning after the actinics came on...he was moving all around the tank last night, so I'm hoping that he's just holed up in the LR, sleeping.

[Mr.leee]

any update on the ones that would not eat frozen or pellet? i would be one ****ed dude if i bought one and they didn't eat!

[Ben34105]

No frozen or pellets here. I went and bought tigger pods to make sure he had plenty of food because he wouldn't eat anything prepared. I paid $50 for an $18 fish. Definately disappointed.

[pweissma]

It's been 3 1/2 days now. He's getting more comfortable in the tank but still not eating. I squirted some chopped up bloodworm in front of him last night but he just ignored it. Still I'm not really worried yet as I do see progress in his acclimation to my tank.

[rgonzalez]

Mine still will not eat prepared foods. It's been two weeks (today) and I have yet to see him eat. For all I know he's eating pods. At this point, I just want him to survive. Yea I over-paid for this fish, but ultimately the concern lies in the fishes health.

<Crossing fingers>

[pweissma]

I think ORA miscalculated this fish's ability to adapt from the conditions in their facilities to those of a reef tank. I have two ORA false percs and an ORA blue assessor. All adapted straight away to my tank. The clowns were active and eating from day 1. To be fair I think the BA was in the dealers tank for about a month but the dealer never had any trouble with it. My guess is that ORA assumed that these mandarins would adapt similarly to their other fish without ever actually testing. I also want to raise the possibility that these feeding problems are be overstated a bit as the mandarins could very well be feeding on pods which is obviously preferred. I haven't read any reports of these fish dying.

[sslak]

Those having trouble getting them to eat:

Are you turng ALL PUMPS OFF and target feeding in ZERO FLOW?

[Ben34105]

Does using a straw and sitting the pellets on the mandarin's head count? :lolspin: Really, he'll sit there with a pellet on his head for a few minutes. He refuses to eat the .5mm pellets. I need to do another water change today and put a poly filter in. The hair algae is growing out of control from all the extra food.

[mallorieGgator]

Our LFS is getting a few in with every order. I think they'll have them in in a week. I can take pics and I'll post 'em.

[poppafish29]

No frozen or pellets here. I went and bought tigger pods to make sure he had plenty of food because he wouldn't eat anything prepared. I paid $50 for an $18 fish. Definately disappointed.

Keep in mind that $18 gets you a wild caught fish which is not ideal. $50 gets you an Aquacultured specimen which is way better whether it eats prepared foods or not.

[pendraig]

No frozen or pellets here. I went and bought tigger pods to make sure he had plenty of food because he wouldn't eat anything prepared. I paid $50 for an $18 fish. Definately disappointed.

Uh, an "$18 fish" is subjected to the extreme stress of being born in a wild Philippine reef, being caught by a spear, moved through several containers likely with varying water quality, and flown 12+ hours across the Pacific. There's a reason why the market price is $18 for such "cut flowers".

I don't think that's the same as a $50+ ORA mandarin....

...just saying...:D

[poppafish29]

Been a long time since Ive heard about a Mandi getting speared!!!
What do they use?? A sowing needle?

[pendraig]

Been a long time since Ive heard about a Mandi getting speared!!!
What do they use?? A sowing needle?

A paper clip sharpened with sandpaper and tied to a bamboo shaft... :sad2:

See here: http://coralmorphologic.com/b/mandarinfishpart2

[angelsil]

Aquacultured are definitely the way to go, but if they're not eating prepared foods the chances of them lasting in most people's tanks are still slim :(

Truly disappointing as mandis are so suited for hobbyist tanks if we can just get them healthy on frozen/pellet food.

[Cerebral Fish]

No frozen or pellets here. I went and bought tigger pods to make sure he had plenty of food because he wouldn't eat anything prepared. I paid $50 for an $18 fish. Definately disappointed.

Does using a straw and sitting the pellets on the mandarin's head count? :lolspin: Really, he'll sit there with a pellet on his head for a few minutes. He refuses to eat the .5mm pellets. I need to do another water change today and put a poly filter in. The hair algae is growing out of control from all the extra food.
I think this is a bad way to approach the situation. It's not dead so it's probably eating something. It has been noted, several times, that they favor live foods over prepared, if they are available.

Dumping more prepared food in there isn't going to make him eat it if he's finding something in your tank he prefers more. But dumping more food in will grow more hair algae. Since copepods eat algae you will just be keeping the 'pod population up and give him less reason to try your food.

I'd suggest that you scale your feedings back to normal levels. The rest of your tank will do better and he might decide to try some prepared foods again once copepod populations fall and he gets hungry.


Aquacultured are definitely the way to go, but if they're not eating prepared foods the chances of them lasting in most people's tanks are still slim :(

Truly disappointing as mandis are so suited for hobbyist tanks if we can just get them healthy on frozen/pellet food.
I think ORA just underestimated the ability of the presence of live foods to break weaning. How many people have actually had an ORA mandarin die from starvation? I haven't heard of any.

[rgonzalez]

I haven't seen my guy in almost 2 days. Hoping he's still alive.

[pendraig]

I think this is a bad way to approach the situation. It's not dead so it's probably eating something. It has been noted, several times, that they favor live foods over prepared, if they are available.

Dumping more prepared food in there isn't going to make him eat it if he's finding something in your tank he prefers more. But dumping more food in will grow more hair algae. Since copepods eat algae you will just be keeping the 'pod population up and give him less reason to try your food.

I'd suggest that you scale your feedings back to normal levels. The rest of your tank will do better and he might decide to try some prepared foods again once copepod populations fall and he gets hungry.

Agreed on the food preference...

I noticed this phenomenon even before my ORA Mandi moved in. I was hoping to get some help with controlling hair algae from a new yellow tang I added 1 month ago. It ignored the algae and just ate the pellets, flakes, and frozen food that I fed my other fish. When I held back on the feedings, the tang started to pick on the hair algae. I also had a similar problem with my dog, who was spoiled by my wife's feedings of wet food. When my wife was away for a few weeks, I fed the dog what I think is healthier -- dry food! After acting like the Mandis complained of in this thread and not touching the dry food for days, she finally got hungry and ate the dry food.


I think ORA just underestimated the ability of the presence of live foods to break weaning. How many people have actually had an ORA mandarin die from starvation? I haven't heard of any.

Agreed. ORA could have done a better job managing customer expectations. It seems like common sense that this issue would arise. If a human is presented with two choices (1) a beef or salmon steak just off the grille (equivalent to live pods) or (2) beef jerky (pellet food). It is clear that #2 will be ignored nearly if not all the time. However, I do remember how good beef jerky tasted 4 days into a backpacking trip without cooked meals.

And good point about no reports yet on ORA Mandi starvation. It's simply premature at this point to declare mass Mandi aquaculture a failure.

I have heard of one dying soon after purchase from an LFS (but that is most likely due to shipping/acclimation stress and not starvation).

[velvetelvis]

I haven't seen my guy in almost 2 days. Hoping he's still alive.

Hang in there...I was afraid I'd lost my mandarin, but he showed up this morning at the front of the tank. Didn't eat the Spectrum pellets that I promptly showered him with, but he looks a bit less skinny, so he must be getting something. Still crossing my fingers that he settles in and starts eating normally. I really, really want this venture (commercial-scale breeding of mandarins) to succeed. Maybe succeeding generations--F2 and onward--will be even better adapted to captivity.

[rgonzalez]

Velvet,

Agreed. I hope this works out for the fishes sake and the industry sake.

[Ben34105]

Originally when I purchased it I planned to put it in my 150. After seeing how small he was and reading they eat prepared food I felt he would be out competed in my big tank so I put him in the Fluval Edge on my desk to make sure he was eating ok. As you can imagine there isn't exactly an abundance of pods in the Edge and he was getting skinny. He kept refusing any form of prepared food so I broke down and bought pods so the little guy wouldn't starve. Now I'm waiting for him to plump up before I put him in my big tank.

I don't have a problem with the aquaculture and think it's a great thing they can breed them in captivity. My issue is the eating prepared foods part. In 10 pages of posts I think only 1 person has seen theirs eat pellets? I think ORA should remove that selling point from their marketing and just say they are aquacultured.

[Cerebral Fish]

Are you still adding 'pods now? He may not eat anything prepared as long as there are enough live foods present. Harpacticoid copepods (mandarin's wild food) will reproduce readily when they have algae and detritus to feed on. Overfeeding the tank contributes to both. It may not be readily apparent how big the 'pod population is because they hide really well during the day. Shining a flashlight in the tank at night might give you a better idea of the 'pod population present.

Are there any other fish in the same tank? Seeing another fish eat the pellets might help, as long as it's not an aggressive eater. Also not every fish will have the same tastes. Have you tried any other types of pellets?

[Ben34105]

I just added the pods one time. About half a bottle or so of tigger pods. The rest went in the sump of my big tank. There is a purple firefish, a pipefish and a small CUC in the tank. They all eat frozen mysis. I mostly feed frozen and only keep pellets around incase I run out of frozen.

I tried three different brands of pellet food and none seemed to get him excited. One is the NLS .5mm and the other is Formula One which I heard in another thread that their WC mandarin would eat. For the fun of it I tried some freshwater betta pellets I have for my freshwater tank.