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View Full Version : Formula's For Mixing your own calcium and Magnesium supplements with bulk from BRS


basssnake
03/26/2010, 10:30 AM
I have been thinking about buying the stuff needed to mix my own calcium and magnesium supplements from bulk reef supply.com. I talked to them quite some time back and they explained to me the proper measurements of calcium to mix to make the solution. The formula he gave me though seemed to be a very weak formula......If i understood him correctly that if you add 2 1/2 cups of calcium chloride to 13 1/2 cups water to make 1 gallon on of calcium supplement. Also, if i understood correctly, he said you add .5ml per gallon of water daily on a average system.

This seems like a way weeker solution than what my Kent marine concentrated calcium supplement is dosed as. It says on it to dose 1/4 to 1 teaspoon per 50 gallons. This would equate out to .5 ml doing about 5 gallons(or maybe 10 gallons if you use the 1/2 tsp amount per 50 gallons).

Does anyone know a mixing formula that will be in the same concentration as the Kent marine calcium supplement? So that i can dose on average .5 to 1ml per 50 gallons? I would prefer to do it this way as it would be easier and simpler to add 6 tsp to my large system versus 30 tsp.....

Also, same on magnesium supplement mixture. Does anyone know a mixing formula that will work as the Kent Marine magnesium supplement in concentration(it is 2 tsp per 50 gallons if dosing once a week). Also, does anyone know where to get the epsom salt in a pharmeuctical grade other than from bulk reef supply that would be cheaper??

Thanks for any help.

IslandCrow
03/26/2010, 10:59 AM
It more than likely is weaker, but good luck getting Kent to give up their secrets. Kent, ESV, etc. have other methods for making more concentrated formulas. I've never done the math, but I'm pretty sure you'll find that the BRS stuff is going to be cheaper to use. Also, realize that you probably could make the calcium portion more concentrated, but to be a true two-part, it's limited by the concentration of the alkalinity portion. In other words, if I add 100ml of the fully saturated alkalinity supplement, I need the calcium supplement at a concentration where I'll need to add 100ml of it as well.

Anyway, if the concentration still doesn't sound right, check out Randy's recipe in the articles in the Reef Chemistry forum. The formulas should be the same. As for magnesium, you're going to find the right dosing based on trial and error. There should be a link to the Reef Chemistry Calculator in the Chemistry forum as well, which will help out. As for Epsom salt, I've always just gotten whatever they're selling at Walgreens. It's of sufficient purity for our purposes. If you're using pure Epsom Salt, however, there is a concern for excessive sulfides after extended use. I believe Randy suggests at least 30% monthly water changes to mitigate this.

LifeAquatic
03/26/2010, 01:10 PM
Just use the BRS supplies as instructed. If you buy the bulk kit for $70.00 it will last for months. I dose 115Ml on my tank daily. I have 180gal display. Check it out. <a href="http://s608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/jason4funding/?action=view&current=GOODTANKPIC2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/jason4funding/GOODTANKPIC2.jpg" border="0" alt="tank pic 2"></a>

Randy Holmes-Farley
03/26/2010, 01:15 PM
My DIY two part recipe is just a bit a bit weaker than some commercial two parts in large part because it is actually quite hard for many folks to get them to dissolve without good mixing equipment and techniques, etc.

It is the alkalinity part that is limited in solubility. Calcium can be as concentrated as you want. Same for magnesium. So all two parts are much less concentrated than the calcium only supplement sold by the same company.

FWIW, I cannot think of any scenario where a DIY needs a more concentrated solution than either of my two DIY recipes (which is what BRS uses). Why is it hard to add 1/4 cup? Don't bother with teaspoons if the amount required is large. FWIW, 48 teaspoons = 1 cup. :)

That said, if you are starting with the solid, you can dissolve the solid you routinely add in most any amount of fresh water. This calculator shows how much boost you get from different solids (and liquids):

Reef chemicals calculator
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

basssnake
03/28/2010, 07:26 AM
My DIY two part recipe is just a bit a bit weaker than some commercial two parts in large part because it is actually quite hard for many folks to get them to dissolve without good mixing equipment and techniques, etc.

It is the alkalinity part that is limited in solubility. Calcium can be as concentrated as you want. Same for magnesium. So all two parts are much less concentrated than the calcium only supplement sold by the same company.

FWIW, I cannot think of any scenario where a DIY needs a more concentrated solution than either of my two DIY recipes (which is what BRS uses). Why is it hard to add 1/4 cup? Don't bother with teaspoons if the amount required is large. FWIW, 48 teaspoons = 1 cup. :)

That said, if you are starting with the solid, you can dissolve the solid you routinely add in most any amount of fresh water. This calculator shows how much boost you get from different solids (and liquids):

Reef chemicals calculator
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html


I do get your point. I guess i could just use measuring cups to dose the tank. I guess i just like the idea of making it more concentrated. What are the different mixing formulas? What amounts would i need to add to make a more concentrated formula similiar to say like kent marine concentrated calcium?

Also, on the epsom salt, someone above said that if you use pure you have to do a 30% water change every month to get the sulfides out. Is the Walgreens and any other version of epsom salt not cause a build up of sulfides so that i won't have to do water changes just to remove sulfides?

thanks, for your help.

IslandCrow
03/28/2010, 07:17 PM
Here's Randy's DIY recipe for calcium, alkalinity and magnesium:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/april2004/chem.htm

I'm guessing you just wouldn't have access to the resources nor the expertise you would need to make a more concentrated formula. Randy would know more about that, but I'm sure if there were a practical method to make a more concentrated formula, he would have already given it to us.

As for the Epsom salts, it really doesn't matter what type you buy. It's not an impurity, it's the chemical composition of the epsom salt itself (i.e. magnesium sulfate heptahydrate). About halfway down this article is a full explanation:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/index.php

basssnake
03/29/2010, 08:31 PM
Any more input from anyone(or maybe Randy) in regards to a concentrated formula for the calcium and for the safest and most reasonable place to get the stuff needed for making the magnesium supplement?

fishysteve
03/30/2010, 04:58 AM
Why do you need it more concentrated? Whatever extra water you add in a weaker formula is less you have to top off from evaporation. Also, the mag recipe is not just epsom salt, it's mag chloride too. Bulk Reef Supply.

wilsonreefs
07/05/2010, 01:18 PM
I read the above link on the Magnesium recipe. (advancedaquarist.com), and I have a question. I am currently trying to raise my Magnesium and too was interested in a diy recipe for magnesium. In the above recipe it states that you dissolve epsom salts to make the magnesium sulfate and pour it into the aquarium. I am using Kent's magnesium which has two parts. One is the Magnesium Sulfate, the other is Magnesium chloride. I could have missed something in the recipe, isn't the magnesium chloride needed as well? If so , how much? I know we'll never know what Kent's recipe is and I'm not asking if someone can duplicate just wondering what everyone is using for diy.

Frick-n-Frags
07/06/2010, 07:03 AM
^ideally you want to add Mg and maintain the proper sulphate ratios. but Mg is 10X more than sulphates(or w/e) in NSW so you cant add JUST epsom salts . you will OD the sulphates before you get the Mg up to level.

read randy's info on the various dosings..all these questions will be answered in there.

Frick-n-Frags
07/06/2010, 07:07 AM
re: concentrated vs dilute:

concentrated is not real cool for the tank when you dose...the more dilute you can slide supplements in , the better it is for the water and life.

you can get localized precipitations from concentrates.. you can really PO the tank's inhabitants with too much Mg at one shot....and w/e else

the smoother you can slide something in, the better it works...like dilute that into your makeup water and dose from a one gallon dripper rig. everything, esp kalk, goes smoother the more dilute it is.