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Inklinkerman
03/27/2010, 10:45 AM
My newly introduced copperband has what looks like classic ich. unfortunatly I do not have QT facilities. Is there anything that can be done? Display tank includes Live rock, inverts, softies and lps.

krowleey
03/27/2010, 04:55 PM
yes, buy a QT tank and move all fish to it. let the display go fallow for 8 weeks. Or do nothing but feed and cross your fingers the fish will build a temporary immunity until you can afford one.

LawmanRob
03/27/2010, 09:49 PM
I'm in the same boat. I'm trying the ro/di dip, if this doesn't work what are the chances that my fish are not going to make it? I have a flameback, 2 clowns, and a six line wrasse.

mborkush
03/28/2010, 05:23 AM
I stumbled accross this stuff, Has anyone ever used this? This is the write up on it:
"No-ICH Marine
Scientifically formulated Reef-Safe water treatment for Cryptocaryon irritans (marine “white spot”) and Ichthyopthirius multifiliis (freshwater ich). Engineered to attack the infectious free swimming stage of the ich life cycle and rid the aquarium of these harmful parasites. No-Ich is safe for all fish, invertebrates, corals, plants and biological filtration systems. 100% copper and malachite free solution. One liter treats up to 100 gallons. Self-Dosing bottle makes measuring and application simple and easy."

mborkush
03/28/2010, 05:24 AM
This is the bottle pic

Inklinkerman
03/28/2010, 05:29 AM
Is it possible the copperband will settle down and fight off the infection with better water and nutrition than it had in the lfs? After all the ich protazoan is supossedly present all the time, but only manifests when there is another problem, ie water, nutrition etc. I've never had any problem before that wasn't fixed by good husbandry. Plus most of my fish came from the same lfs, so ich was probably present in the water but has never shown itself. I'm going to try more frequent water changes, increase cleaning to remove any substrate bourne cysts and prayer. I've heard hyposalinity ( about 1.015-1.02) could help by resting the fish but how would this effect the corals and inverts?

Inklinkerman
03/28/2010, 05:31 AM
I stumbled accross this stuff, Has anyone ever used this? This is the write up on it:
"No-ICH Marine
Scientifically formulated Reef-Safe water treatment for Cryptocaryon irritans (marine “white spot”) and Ichthyopthirius multifiliis (freshwater ich). Engineered to attack the infectious free swimming stage of the ich life cycle and rid the aquarium of these harmful parasites. No-Ich is safe for all fish, invertebrates, corals, plants and biological filtration systems. 100% copper and malachite free solution. One liter treats up to 100 gallons. Self-Dosing bottle makes measuring and application simple and easy."


What's the active ingredient?

RegalAngel
03/28/2010, 08:08 AM
This is the bottle pic

http://www.fishvet.com/no-ich.htm
http://www.fishvet.com/no-ich_faqs.htm

It will work, BUT becomes very expensive for a large tank since you will need to add almost daily to maintain the required strength.

JHemdal
03/28/2010, 08:32 AM
When they don't/won't list active ingredients, you have to do a little sleuthing. In this case, the literature says it will kill parasitic copepods but not kill "other invertebrates". Neat trick that, since copepods and shrimp are killed by the same drugs at the same doses! I'm not sure what this product contains....the volume of the liquid implies something that is difficult to concentrate (else they would use smaller bottles) so that leaves out many "reef safe" drugs, the antimalarials, etc. I've heard of people treating Cryptocaryon with "probiotics" and such - maybe that is what it is?


IMO - Krowley gave the only real solution for this case.....


Jay

reefoctopus
03/28/2010, 08:49 AM
i am in the same boat. i have a blue tang thats badly covered by ich. i have not done any treatment yet. tang has became fat since i got it. It is still coninuesly eating well but keeps on rubbing against the rocks.

I have a spare 100 gal tank but that's huge for a qt. im cossing fingers the fish becomes immune to it. it's a fowlr btw.

RegalAngel
03/28/2010, 11:39 AM
RE: No-Ich

The Active Ingredient: 5-Nitroimidazoles

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php

"Treatment Option 8: 5-Nitroimidazoles

There is another class of products on the market that are alleged to be a reef-safe, alternative, anti-parasitic medication for Cryptocaryon irritans. The active ingredient of this category of treatments is 5-Nitroimidazoles. I have only used this type of product a few times, but never in a reef tank, so I cannot speak to those claims. I found these to be moderately successful against Cryptocaryon, although it required twice as many applications as the manufacturer stated on the instructions to affect a complete cure. My biggest complaint is how expensive it was, in particular accounting for the amount and time needed to affect a full cure. Anyone who wishes to try one of these products should perform a search on several of the online message boards to get additional feedback prior to purchasing. Based on my own experience alone, I cannot recommend them."

ie If used at the proper strength as recommended by the manufacturer it will kill Ich.

LawmanRob
03/28/2010, 11:42 AM
This is a pic of what I woke up to this morning, I did a fresh water dip on one clown yesterday and my flameback, but the clowns didn't make it. On the good side, I don't see any spots on the Angel. My six line is shadowing her and lightly nipping her, I hope the sixline is keeping any new parasites from attaching. I also didn't know that mushrooms would eat like this guess this is a good learning lesson.

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr309/Bobbyd1977/DSC02448.jpg

mborkush
03/28/2010, 12:40 PM
I think any cure is going to be expensive. If its not the medication the person chooses, then its the added cost of running a second tank (QT). It all adds up. We all signed on for this, so cost aside, still quarantining seems to be the best and safest method to treat the infected and allow for die off in the DT.
I also heard of people putting a penney in there QT tank. it was a gradual release of copper and killed the parasite. Were going back now. Thats old school! Back when people had to walk 10 miles in all kinds of weather to get to the fish store....LOL :lolspin:

dun2run
03/28/2010, 12:45 PM
Dont waste any money on NO-Ich. That stuff sucks!!!! Even if you use it, if you dont get the fish out of the DT, you can probably expect to lose more fish. Just my experience with it.

rarejul
03/29/2010, 09:31 AM
anyone use Kick Ich? I had good success with it but didnt have much corals in my tank at the time.

RegalAngel
03/29/2010, 10:38 AM
anyone use Kick Ich? I had good success with it but didnt have much corals in my tank at the time.

Great!

It has the same active ingredient as No-Ich:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=46371&postcount=4

andy99
03/29/2010, 11:54 AM
i have used kick ich since i couldnot get a fish out of my tank and put into qt and it worked well

Inklinkerman
03/29/2010, 12:45 PM
Might be worth a try, if I can find it in the UK. Thanks.

dr.sinister
03/29/2010, 07:17 PM
I have just had the same problem, first the tang then the anthias, then the clowns. At first I treated with some very good reef safe med Proto marin coral, however this medication works well if you catch the ich in the very early stages. Also if overdose occurs any crabs or shrimp will die first. The problem is that you have to turn off the skimmer. I also tried stop ich and I think that stuff is junk. I finally bought a qt the tang(Achilles) was on her last legs(fins). It cost alot of money but it will be worth it if it safes the lifestock.
Also did you think of asking the store you purchased the fish in if they can take it and treat it? Often they have a qt in the back. Mine offered but we had already got the qt.

Inklinkerman
03/30/2010, 01:49 PM
I thought of that, after all I spend enough there! But I figured that ich was in there and so it was too late. So far no other fish are affected and the CBB is feeding well and swimming fine and looks like it has less spots and non on the body(maybe 10 in total). I did a 20% water change yesterday and I'm hoping for the best.

dr.sinister
03/30/2010, 06:52 PM
Just keep your eye on it, just when I thought it was gone it came back ten tims worse and spread to the other fish. Also wait before you add anything else, like 4 months. Some fish are ich magnets and so it may be wise to just treat that fish. Another thing to concider is a UV sterilizer.

Jambi40-6&2
03/30/2010, 09:43 PM
I am in the same boat w/ a picasso clown. If he dies I am going to pull my hair out! I have been giving him a daily fresh water dip for about 3-5 mins depending how he is handling it. I also have been soaking his food in garlic water, and today I picked up a product called Herbtana Microbe-Lift , it is also reef safe.The fish guy said they use it at there store. I have my fingers crossed. Anyone ever use the stuff?

dr.sinister
03/31/2010, 07:23 AM
I've never tried that but I don't have alot of confidence in herbal cures and the skimmer needs to be off for 10 days. It may be worth a try anyway. Let us know if it works. The fresh water dip will only eleviate the parisites on the outside, but non that are under the skin.

jnc914
03/31/2010, 07:43 AM
A freshwater dip is useless considering you are placing the fish right back into the tank that has the ich in it. You have to leave the system fallow for upwards of 8 weeks with no fish to host the parasite. The only methods that have worked for me is either strict hyposalinity (1.009) or use of Cumpramine. Both of these methods should be done in a QT unless you are running a FOWLR. Most of the so-called "ich cures" are a complete waste of money, especially the herbal ones. If you want to get rid of the ich, take the time and do it correctly, QT everything prior to putting into your display.

Also FWIW, cleaner wrasses and cleaner shrimp do not remove actual parasites, they remove dead skin. There are studies that have looked at the gut contents of cleaner shrimp and there are no findings of such parasites being in their stomachs.

mborkush
03/31/2010, 05:58 PM
I read a thread on using ginger root to HELP with ick. This created a lot of controversy and arguments due to words being used like "cure". Thats why I said help. I found it when I was looking for some help with Ick on a new powder blue tang in my DT. I grated the root I bought from my grocery store into my homemade food mix at feeding time. I let it sit for 5 to 10 min before "serving". I have seen white spots that could have been Ick disappear. I have also seen it back, but then disappear again. Not sure what it is doing, but it certainly helps. I have also been watching the results on a chocolate tang I have in a copper treated QT. He is doing very well and eats really good. His fins were covered!!!
Again, not suggesting a cure, but wether it helps reduce stress, or calms/relaxes the fish, builds appetite or immune system, who knows, but for $1.39 and an extra 10 min. at feeding time, I feel its worth spreading my good results from someone else's discovery. I will try to find the thread and post it so they can get credit.
I hope you have good luck as I did. :beer:

mborkush
03/31/2010, 06:00 PM
I found it. Im not sure if this is how to post a link. Lets try it. :fish1:



http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181818&perpage=25&highlight=ginger&pagenumber=1

mborkush
03/31/2010, 06:02 PM
Yes, that works. Grab a beer/glass of wine and put on your reading glasses.
Its a good read. :thumbsup: