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View Full Version : Lets try this No Ich stuff


Climb16
04/01/2010, 08:26 AM
Okay, so i reciently had a small outbreak of Ich in my 250 which i think was brought on by a purchace of a Neon goby. My stock list is as such; 10" Scribbled angel, 6" Queen Angel, 6" Imperator angel, 6" clown trigger, 5" purple tang, 5" Threadfin butterfly, a pair of mated Gold stiped maroon clowns, 2" Dragon wrasse, Blue ribbon eel, a cleaner wrasse, neon goby and a cleaner shrimp along with some misc. leathers and mushrooms.

Now not all of my fish have got spots on them. The clown trigger and the Imperator have the worst of it with only a few spots on the others, purple tang, dragon wrasse and eel have nothing. With all that said as soon as i saw any spots at all i started soaking food in Garlic and increasing the amount of veggies. It has been 10 days from the time of the first spot and about 3 days ago it was the worst. I do not have a Qt tank large enough to treat all the fish in there so i thought i would give the No Ich Treatment a try. I started the treatment yesterday and we will see how it goes. I will keep you all posted with how it is working.

RegalAngel
04/01/2010, 08:45 AM
Make sure you follow the directions...meaning adding every day...that's alot of No-Ich for a 250g tank! Remember none of the Ich treatments kills the parasite on the fish. It is only when the parasite hatches out and is free swimming that it can be killed. So, the No-Ich needs to be at strength during this 28-day cycle....after it no longer shows up on the fish.

Climb16
04/02/2010, 03:24 PM
Third treatment and the spots seem to be diminishing. The fish are not asking to be cleaned as much as before. I think that there should be another bloom in the next few days so we will see how it works.

Jambi40-6&2
04/02/2010, 11:20 PM
Is that NO X - ICH you are using? I am waging WWIII w/ ich right now. I picked up the stuff, it is 50% sodium chloride and 50% malachite green. I hope it works, I lost one of my picasso clowns and the other has it also. I was devastated when I lost the first one.

Climb16
04/03/2010, 06:19 AM
I am using the No Ich by Fish Vet.

JHemdal
04/03/2010, 06:57 AM
NOX-ICH is for freshwater fish only (as evidenced by the sodium chloride content).

I've used a similar product in a marine quarantine system with only marginal results...I was hoping that the malachite green component would help.

Jay

Climb16
04/05/2010, 08:29 AM
the No Ich does not seem to be working as well as i had hoped and more spots are starting to show up on my fish, they have also started to scratch. So it is time to pull out the corals and put them in a different tank for a while, durring a Hypo treatment. I have had good luck with that in the past.

RegalAngel
04/05/2010, 01:19 PM
the No Ich does not seem to be working as well as i had hoped and more spots are starting to show up on my fish, they have also started to scratch. So it is time to pull out the corals and put them in a different tank for a while, durring a Hypo treatment. I have had good luck with that in the past.


What is your dosing procedure with No-Ich?...Amount and how often?

For a 250g tank that is 2oz/25g or 20oz per day! And at least until the white spots are gone.
If you are doing this and you are not using carbon? then I would give it time.

Climb16
04/05/2010, 04:10 PM
The day that i started the No Ich i turned off my skimmer and removed my carbon, i have been doing the 20oz a day and as of today there are more stops that there were a week ago

RegalAngel
04/06/2010, 08:53 AM
The day that i started the No Ich i turned off my skimmer and removed my carbon, i have been doing the 20oz a day and as of today there are more stops that there were a week ago

Excellent! The "new" spots of Ich you are seeing are actually parasites that are growing from feeding on the fish and most likely were on the fish prior to No-Ich introduction.

Stay the course and you will fine.

RegalAngel
04/06/2010, 01:10 PM
"How do I dose NO-ICH?

Add 2 oz. per 25 gallons (50 ml per 100 liters) of actual water every day until obvious improvement takes place and then add every other day until all fish are normal. When all fish are clean treat 3 more times every other day to ensure no further problems.

Is it okay to dose at a higher level?

In general the dosages noted above should be adhered to but there a few situations that may warrant higher dosage. These would include:

1. Dealing with a very severe or persistent infestation.

2. If you are unable to temporarily turn off your protein skimmer, UV sterilizer, ozonizer or similar filtration equipment.

3. Aquariums with very large biofiltration capacity which may speed up the degradation of the product.

In these cases you would treat on day one with 4 oz. per 25 gallons and then increase the dosage levels by 50% to 3 oz. per 25 gallons every other day until obvious improvement takes place. Once fish are clean treat 3 more times at 3 oz. per 25 gallons every other day to ensure no further problems."

---------------------------

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php

"Treatment Option 8: 5-Nitroimidazoles

There is another class of products on the market that are alleged to be a reef-safe, alternative, anti-parasitic medication for Cryptocaryon irritans. The active ingredient of this category of treatments is 5-Nitroimidazoles. I have only used this type of product a few times, but never in a reef tank, so I cannot speak to those claims. I found these to be moderately successful against Cryptocaryon, although it required twice as many applications as the manufacturer stated on the instructions to affect a complete cure. My biggest complaint is how expensive it was, in particular accounting for the amount and time needed to affect a full cure. Anyone who wishes to try one of these products should perform a search on several of the online message boards to get additional feedback prior to purchasing. Based on my own experience alone, I cannot recommend them."

Climb16
04/06/2010, 09:34 PM
Thanks for the info, i have not stopped the treatment and just ordered some more that should last me another 3 weeks. Hopefully i will not need to go longer than that. As long as my fish do not seem to get any worse I am going to try to stay the corse and continue to use the No Ich. It is a little expensive but if it works than it is worth it. I also just ordered some vitamin C with the No Ich. I have had good luck with that before, just interested what your all's thoughts on the Vitamin C is.

thanks

Chris27
04/07/2010, 12:12 PM
Be wary of that stuff - the manufacturer won't list the ingredients of the solution, so you never really know what you're throwing in your tank. They recommend turning off the skimmer, so the only thing I can imagine is that the product is comprised of a bunch of fruit and berry extracts like other similar products.

RegalAngel
04/07/2010, 02:08 PM
Be wary of that stuff - the manufacturer won't list the ingredients of the solution, so you never really know what you're throwing in your tank. They recommend turning off the skimmer, so the only thing I can imagine is that the product is comprised of a bunch of fruit and berry extracts like other similar products.

The manufacturer, Fish Vet does list the ingredients on the product container.

5-Nitroimidazoles

Which is what I listed above about the use of this medication.

Climb16
04/09/2010, 02:27 PM
The fish have almost completely rid themselves of spots and are all acting same as they always have. Color is good on all of the fish and the cleaning line seems to have gone down a bit. As of right now it seems as if the product is working but we will see what happens in the next couple of weeks.

kwong1998
01/15/2012, 10:40 AM
The fish have almost completely rid themselves of spots and are all acting same as they always have. Color is good on all of the fish and the cleaning line seems to have gone down a bit. As of right now it seems as if the product is working but we will see what happens in the next couple of weeks.

My fish have ich, I would like to try NO-ICH by FISH-VET INC. how is your fishes doing? Is this treatment really reef safe? I do have sps, lps and softies in my tank.

MrTuskfish
01/15/2012, 11:11 AM
The fish have almost completely rid themselves of spots and are all acting same as they always have. Color is good on all of the fish and the cleaning line seems to have gone down a bit. As of right now it seems as if the product is working but we will see what happens in the next couple of weeks.
This is normal with any ich infestation; numbers of spots drop, while the next generation is maturing. I hope this works for you; but hope you have a backup plan too. BTW, the cleaners are not eating the parasite itself; its buried well out of reach. A fish can still have plenty of feeding ich parasites, especially in the gills, and not show many/any spots.

Tat2demon
01/15/2012, 11:34 AM
This thread is almost 2 years old. His results of the ich disappearing are after 8 days. Thats the normal cycle for the parasite before it drops off. Most fish will look fine after that until the next cycle starts again in a week or 2.

So far there are no ich treatments that are reef safe and actually work.

Tat2demon
01/15/2012, 11:34 AM
This thread is almost 2 years old. His results of the ich disappearing are after 8 days. Thats the normal cycle for the parasite before it drops off. Most fish will look fine after that until the next cycle starts again in a week or 2.

So far there are no ich treatments that are reef safe and actually work.

MrTuskfish
01/17/2012, 08:11 AM
This thread is almost 2 years old. His results of the ich disappearing are after 8 days. Thats the normal cycle for the parasite before it drops off. Most fish will look fine after that until the next cycle starts again in a week or 2.

So far there are no ich treatments that are reef safe and actually work.
+1 (s a double-post +2?) I've got to start looking at dates.

chgoblknazn
04/15/2012, 10:48 PM
Did this stuff work?

Bluemon
04/15/2012, 11:03 PM
no.

webslinger
05/14/2014, 11:32 AM
yes

yachtdr22
06/28/2014, 03:37 AM
bump...

MrTuskfish
06/28/2014, 08:24 AM
bump...

If the stuff worked, it would be shouted from the rooftops. You wouldn't have to go back to a 4 year old thread to find info.

snorvich
06/28/2014, 09:10 AM
Ah, the search for a "silver bullet" continues.

yachtdr22
06/28/2014, 06:13 PM
I think my question is very basic, but ohhh the Controversy.....
Does Ich in some form reside in "almost" all tanks?
or
is there a way to have absolutely None?
I started a 375 Reef Combo with Marco Dry Rock and Reef Crystals.
I was especially careful to start with ALL virgin components. I did not reuse, recycle anything. tank
cycling was started with Dr.Tims One and Only.
Salifin Tang had been quarantined in a 75gal and happy waiting for his new home for almost a year
along with a Beta, Flame Hawk and Long nose hawk.
All went in and happy for 3 months. No fish added....
then one day.... whammo... sailfin has spots????

Is there another place more approprate to discuss this? new thread?

Spar
06/29/2014, 12:18 PM
I think my question is very basic, but ohhh the Controversy.....
Does Ich in some form reside in "almost" all tanks?
or
is there a way to have absolutely None?
I started a 375 Reef Combo with Marco Dry Rock and Reef Crystals.
I was especially careful to start with ALL virgin components. I did not reuse, recycle anything. tank
cycling was started with Dr.Tims One and Only.
Salifin Tang had been quarantined in a 75gal and happy waiting for his new home for almost a year
along with a Beta, Flame Hawk and Long nose hawk.
All went in and happy for 3 months. No fish added....
then one day.... whammo... sailfin has spots????

Is there another place more approprate to discuss this? new thread?

Probably a new thread so you get more directed attention.

Be sure to mention what your QT method was for those fish, and how long you let other wet-things go fallow before adding them to the DT. Will target where things went wrong.

Pjduck33
01/23/2015, 09:28 PM
This may be an old thread, but it still shows up very highly in search results, so I feel it is important to add my experience with No-Ich from Fish Vet.

I have a 90G reef and 55G FOWLR that are a combined system. I had a severe outbreak of ich that hit my blue and Tomini tang particularly hard. The system had not had any un-quarantined fish added, and both affected fish had been in the aquarium for close to 6 months, so I am not sure what triggered the outbreak, but it was a time of significant desperation. After reading several reviews and forum posts for the best cures, I had decided to go the more traditional route with either hypo-salinity or copper in a QT.

After several days of failures to get my fish out of the display (I wasn't really willing to add the stress of pulling every single piece of live rock to get the fish out) I decided to try the No-Ich. At this point I had resigned myself to possibly losing the fish, but had to try something.

After dosing at a rate of 300mL qod for about a week and then 300mL eod for about 3 more weeks, I feel I can answer the question about its efficacy from my own personal experience.

YES

Not only did every fish survive and heal completely, but I did not suffer any losses of inverts or corals (I have BTA's, zoa's, mushrooms, other softies, and various other inverts). It has been almost 1 year with absolutely no signs of symptoms of any diseases on any of my fish, and all inhabitants have been doing great for the last year (except for a lionfish that went carpet surfing a few days ago...)

I would wholeheartedly recommend this as an alternative treatment if the traditional options are not possible. It is obvious that the body of evidence for the efficacy of copper and hypo are much more complete, so I would consider those to be "top tier" candidates for treatment, but if they are going to be too difficult, I would highly recommend you give No-Ich a try.

Nina51
01/24/2015, 08:55 AM
YES

i am still 100% skeptical.

chances are, your fish were just very healthy to begin with, fought the parasite, survived, and continue to thrive and you have had no occurrences of stress, etc., that would cause another outbreak.

i'm curious, have you added anything new (w/o quarantining) to your tank since this stuff "worked"?

Deinonych
01/24/2015, 10:07 AM
i am still 100% skeptical.

+1

I require empirical evidence, not anecdotes.

Pjduck33
01/24/2015, 10:58 PM
+1

I require empirical evidence, not anecdotes.

What is medical research but a string of enough anecdotes to be convincing? (In a controlled environment, of course) I am not even saying that this is the best (or even a highly effective) treatment. 5-Nitroimidizoles are a well known class of antibiotics and have anti-parasitic activity. This isn't just a concoction of herbs and extracts that offer a voodoo cure (I would more likely put garlic in that category than the No-Ich). I am just offering one opinion, based on personal and ANECDOTAL experience that I was pleased with the outcome and if I was ever faced with the choice again, I would use this product again.

If I were asked to offer advice on how to deal with an Ich infestation, I would recommend hypo or copper as the BEST and FIRST LINE options, but if someone felt it would be too difficult to clear out there tank and wanted to try something else, I would not hesitate for a second to recommend this product. I have used copper to treat ich in a QT tank several years ago, and it worked very well. This is just an alternative if the situation calls for it.

And to answer the other question - I don't typically add fish without quarantine, but I have added a few "lower risk" specimens with an abbreviated QT (such as a lion fish - they don't seem to be afflicted by typical diseases quite as easily as tangs tend to be). Also, even though my tanks share the same water, the return to my main reef display passes through a UV chamber, so the risk of something in my FOWLR passing into my display is lessened. I have even transferred a few specimens from my FOWLR to my main display that didn't go through QT (unless you consider their time in the FOWLR as the QT).

Deinonych
01/25/2015, 02:56 PM
What is medical research but a string of enough anecdotes to be convincing? (In a controlled environment, of course) I am not even saying that this is the best (or even a highly effective) treatment.
Scientific and medical research both use the scientific method to arrive at their conclusions - the very antithesis of anecdotal evidence. So, they are not the same thing.


5-Nitroimidizoles are a well known class of antibiotics and have anti-parasitic activity. This isn't just a concoction of herbs and extracts that offer a voodoo cure (I would more likely put garlic in that category than the No-Ich). I am just offering one opinion, based on personal and ANECDOTAL experience that I was pleased with the outcome and if I was ever faced with the choice again, I would use this product again.
Yes, 5-Nitroimidizoles are indeed well-known antibiotic and anti-parasitic compounds. However, there is no evidence in marine biology literature that they are effective against Cryptocaryon irritans. If you choose to use it, that's great. I'm glad it worked for you. I wouldn't risk my fishes' health with it, though.


If I were asked to offer advice on how to deal with an Ich infestation, I would recommend hypo or copper as the BEST and FIRST LINE options, but if someone felt it would be too difficult to clear out there tank and wanted to try something else, I would not hesitate for a second to recommend this product. I have used copper to treat ich in a QT tank several years ago, and it worked very well. This is just an alternative if the situation calls for it.

An alternative with no evidence to back up its efficacy. Copper can be an effective treatment option for Cryptocaryon, although I prefer Tank Transfer Method for a more reliable approach.

amcvay1979
04/08/2015, 09:17 AM
bottom line is this; it's nearly impossible to have a controlled test of ich in effected marine fish because you just can't measure how many parasites a fish has, how long they've had them and what stage of the cycle they're in without killing the host fish.

I'm convinced that ich is just going to a part of this hobby no matter how hard we all fight. There's a ton of empirical evidence that hypo and copper work, but there's also evidence of someone following 100% QT methods and STILL getting ich at some point (usually seen in a Tang) I think Tangs are just ich machines...so what do I do? I run a UV sterilizer (probably only 30 to 50% effective at eliminated free swimming parasites) I feed heavily when I notice 1 white spot on ANY fish and include Ginger (again, probably less than 25% effective) and I also feed CP food and caviar at least 3 times a week. Does any of this work? Maybe, but I don't have the time to monitor my DT and a hospital tank so No Ich will be added to my routine of the above mentioned methods in hope that suppressing even MOST of the parasites combined with healthy fish means I don't lose all fish to this nasty disease.

I'll say this, whomever develops a 100% reef safe effective cure for ich is going to be a fast millionaire!

ThRoewer
04/08/2015, 11:06 AM
... but there's also evidence of someone following 100% QT methods and STILL getting ich at some point (usually seen in a Tang) I think Tangs are just ich machines...so what do I do? ...

I stay away from tangs as far as I can, wouldn't touch them with a 10ft pole, let alone put one into my tank.

Spar
04/08/2015, 11:24 AM
but there's also evidence of someone following 100% QT methods and STILL getting ich at some point (usually seen in a Tang)

it's impossible to truly know how they performed their procedures though to guarantee that they actually did follow the procedures 100%. we see it all the time where people demand that they followed the rules 100%; but then after a little prying you find out that they brought in a Mandarin and didn't QT 'because they are immune to ich', or someone brought in a bunch of CUC without fallow treating first 'because they can't host ich', etc, etc, etc.

there are so many things that people seem to think aren't necessary to QT for whatever reason, that likely comes back to bite them, yet they blame it on one of the major treatment methods being flawed instead.

rant being, that I will always side with that there is a missing part of the story when someone claims they followed rules 100% and still got Ich; but arguing on the internet always gets you to the same place!

ThRoewer
04/08/2015, 11:34 AM
Don't forget that even 72 days of fallow and diligent quarantine only gives you 99.9% probability that your system is ich free. There is always a tiny risk left that is somehow found a way in.

100% certainty exists only in a tank filled with bleach.

amcvay1979
04/08/2015, 02:47 PM
Careful or someone will start dosing bleach in a last ditch effort to be ich free

amcvay1979
04/08/2015, 02:49 PM
Fwiw I'm having good luck with a combo of the anti parasite caviar cp pellets and ginger in every feeding. I have 2 tangs and one showed signs of white spots 2 days ago. Today he is spot free. I also increased temp to 83. Could all just be coincidence though but I'll still continue to feed this way.

Reefstarter2
04/08/2015, 02:55 PM
I've used a combination of a few things to beat Ich . I still think its in there laying dormant but heres what I did
Aquire some polyp lab medic , garlic , amino acids for fish , vitamin C for fish . mix all those in food and let soak .
dose the medic in your sump and watch where it may land in your display it can irritate corals but I saw no other ill effects using it . Follow the directions and keep at it . I was able to get my fish through in a 500 gallon system using this . Not sure if it was luck or what but thought I'd share it

andy01748
04/08/2015, 03:22 PM
Don't forget that even 72 days of fallow and diligent quarantine only gives you 99.9% probability that your system is ich free. There is always a tiny risk left that is somehow found a way in.

100% certainty exists only in a tank filled with bleach.

Everything you do needs to be evaluated risk versus reward. I consider a 99.9% probability of being ich free (only a 1 in a 1000 chance of failure) pretty good odds, considering all the other unknowns and intricacies of this hobby that cause things to go wrong. Without being proactive (such as TTM for fish, fallow period for everything else that is wet) your odds of being ich free significantly diminish.

ThRoewer
04/08/2015, 04:17 PM
Fwiw I'm having good luck with a combo of the anti parasite caviar cp pellets and ginger in every feeding. I have 2 tangs and one showed signs of white spots 2 days ago. Today he is spot free. I also increased temp to 83. Could all just be coincidence though but I'll still continue to feed this way.

Yeah! I had great success getting rid of ich by dancing naked around the tank while chanting. :hmm5:

gone fishin
04/08/2015, 04:31 PM
Only during a full moon though.:lolspin:

snorvich
04/09/2015, 09:43 AM
Fwiw I'm having good luck with a combo of the anti parasite caviar cp pellets and ginger in every feeding. I have 2 tangs and one showed signs of white spots 2 days ago. Today he is spot free. I also increased temp to 83. Could all just be coincidence though but I'll still continue to feed this way.

Do not increase temperature if there is a perspective parasite as it decreases oxygen in the water.

snorvich
04/09/2015, 09:44 AM
Yeah! I had great success getting rid of ich by dancing naked around the tank while chanting. :hmm5:

My wife would appreciate that! The fish, not so much.

ThRoewer
04/09/2015, 10:10 AM
My wife would appreciate that! The fish, not so much.

Upsetting the fish a bit is fine as long as the ich parasites get scared to death :p

Deinonych
04/09/2015, 11:18 AM
Yeah! I had great success getting rid of ich by dancing naked around the tank while chanting. :hmm5:

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