For All You Reef Detectives

[Eric45]

I've got a mystery here. All of my parameters are in the good range. Lighting is MH with new bulbs. Temp/salinity/magnesium/strontium all spot on. But my goniopora is bleaching, my snails are dead or not moving and my xenia is growing much more slowly than it used to.

I've been fighting a hair algae problem, but it's pretty much under control so I don't think that's it. I feel like I should be dosing something I'm not, but can't imagine what that could be. I currently dose strontium, molybenenum (whatever), iodine, alk,calk, and magnesium. I use salifert kits to test for all of them except the strontium/moly.

Anyone see a pattern here or have any idea what might be the problem. I think the clue is in the snails, but i'm stymied. Thanks.

[tangzzz]

Have you tested your phosphates and nitrates? What is your Ph and Alk?

[Eric45]

All good. Less than .03 on phosphate and less than 5 on nitrate.

[tangzzz]

Do you have any cyano, I once was battling that and my snails died, I later read hat its a bit toxic? Your phosphates might be higher if you were battling hair algae as the algae sucks the phosphates before you can test them. Do you run carbon and or resin, and do you feed your genopora?

[Eric45]

I run carbon and gfo. I also have periodic battles with cyano, but since I started w/the gfo, its not been a problem. I still have the hair algae problem, but I keep blowing it off the rocks so it looks good at least. It may be that the hair algae is toxic. I only know I hate it.

[gdwats]

[violation]...

[gdwats]

I run carbon and gfo. I also have periodic battles with cyano, but since I started w/the gfo, its not been a problem. I still have the hair algae problem, but I keep blowing it off the rocks so it looks good at least. It may be that the hair algae is toxic. I only know I hate it.

Wait a minute..hair algae does not "blow off the rocks". Maybe you meant the cyano you blew off the rocks. Better to remove it as a sheet or suck it up during a water change or with a T-baster or something. Blowing it around the tank looks better but doesn't help much. If your tank is fairly new, the cyano is just a phase. Do you have a lot of coraline algae? that too can deplete alkalinity. what is temp and pH?

[serpentman]

I run my nitrates around 5ppm in my SPS reef with excellent results. I suspect phosphate may still be an issue. If its detectable AND you have hair algae, its probably much higher than your readings elude. You may want to consider GFO. If you do, go slow so you don't shock things further.

Also, new lights can shock a coral. That could be the culprit.

[Eric45]

Don't think its any of those things. My Alk and CA are perfect and I measure them all the time. (ALK 10/CA 420) Its a two year old tank and only recently did the hair algae appear. That's when I started using the GFO and probably too aggressively as it dropped almost overnight from .25 to .01. I'm sure that didn't help anything except that the hair algae slowed and appeared much more gray and stringy. Which is why I can blow it off the rocks.

[GOLFREEFER]

If snails are dying, that is a problem. I would check for ammonia or something more serious, IME snails won't die due to ALK, CAL MAG, phos, etc. I would also not dose any of those chemicals you mentioned (beyond the big three cal, alk, mag) until you get things figured out.

Oh and Hair algae will blow of the rocks especially if it is dying due to the GFO, the dying algae also might be having some toxic effects that are being released into the water.

Goniopora's in my experience sometimes just waste away and do not need huge lighting.

[Eric45]

Have to admit, I haven't checked amonia or nitrite in a while. Will do that. I agree, the snails dying is a symptom of something more serious. Just haven't figured it out yet. It could be the hair algae is affecting the snails.

[mscarpena]

I dont see why your dosing strontium because you have no LPS corals. What you listed as livestock will not use up strontium. Too much strontium will mess your tank up bad. I would look at that. Hair algae is not toxic the cyano bacteria is trouble though. Also you did add too much phosphate remover if they dropped that quickly. I do not think you need to dose anything else.

[Eric45]

Actually, I do have LPS corals, a brain, cynarina and some sps as well - acros, favia... All seem to be doing fine. But I agree about the strontium. I only tried it out of desperation.

[gdwats]

OK folks, Lock and load. Gonna throw something really wild out there. Algaes thrive on Iron, which is why Iron and Manganese (Fe/Mn)are added to the fuge sometimes. Is it possible the flow through the GFO (granular ferric oxide) is running too fast and it can not only affect parameters as suggested above, is there a chance if the gfo gets pulverized due to tumbling in the reactor, that it can leach Fe(iron) into your tank? Reaching for straws here, as all seems well, right?

[GOLFREEFER]

Actually, I do have LPS corals, a brain, cynarina and some sps as well - acros, favia... All seem to be doing fine. But I agree about the strontium. I only tried it out of desperation.

sorry, i did not mean to imply that you didn't need high lighting. I try not to tell people what lighting they should have for certain creatures, that is easily searchable here at RC.

I was just saying that Goniopora bleaching could (I stress could), be to new bulbs, hence the post i made about them not needing huge lighting.

The goniopora bleaching could not have anything to do with whatever is harming the snails etc.

Also, Hair algae is not "toxic" per say, but if it dies it releases everything that it has taken from the water column which could include toxic substances or at the very least, loads of nutrients which the definition of toxic would include. Semantics!

[Eric45]

Hey I appreciate all the good thoughts here. The gfo has only been in the sump for a few weeks and the bleaching gonio predates that by a couple of months. But it definitely seemed to kill all the algae (and yet it keeps coming back) and leave long dead strands all over the back of the tank. I actually considered the possiblility of an iron deficiency but decided the gfo would take care of that.

What is really weird is how well my acans, cynarina, monti's and acros are doing and all the fish are fine. But the snails keep dying.

[benzreef]

maybe a snail disease? could there conceivably be excess nutrients we can't test for that build up over time leading to the inevitable tank crash that so many people have every few years? With everything we add to the tank day in and day out, is it as simple as CA, Mg, Sr, Mb, Alk, NO2, NH4? What other compounds build in our tanks that we are blissfully unaware of? The only, and I stress ONLY way I know of to keep everything in check is large, frequent water changes. Hours after a w/c the polyp extension in my tank is more pronounced than the week(s) leading up to the change. Be religious with those water changes for there is no substitute.

[asl4me76]

I still have the hair algae problem, but I keep blowing it off the rocks so it looks good at least. It may be that the hair algae is toxic. I only know I hate it.

Ahh --- so this is a huge key for me here.

I am almost betting that if you turn your power heads off and leaving them off for 20 - 30 minutes, you'll get some brown stuff floating in your water, off your corals, rocks, and or sand bed. Check out the thread listed below, if it is then what you have is not cyano as that is a film and it's thick. It also shows a color to it. This stuff here is only brown that I have been able to find it as far as photos. If it is the stuff in the photos in the thread below, then what you have my dear is Dino's.

If it is dino's then that would be the reason why it is that your snails are not making it or not moving. They eat the toxins and it kills them from the inside out. Not a fun death at all. Your parameters can be right on, but that doesn't mean that you may not be battling dino's. If it is in fact dino's, then you want to do a 48/72 hr period of no light at all. Stop all water changes for a bit. As they feed off of the silicates in the new water, along with light. Change your carbon and GFO, as that will definitely help. Continue doing the lights off for a few weeks to see how things go.

Check this thread out: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1815351

Good luck!

[asl4me76]

Hey I appreciate all the good thoughts here. The gfo has only been in the sump for a few weeks and the bleaching gonio predates that by a couple of months. But it definitely seemed to kill all the algae (and yet it keeps coming back) and leave long dead strands all over the back of the tank. I actually considered the possiblility of an iron deficiency but decided the gfo would take care of that.

What is really weird is how well my acans, cynarina, monti's and acros are doing and all the fish are fine. But the snails keep dying.

Mine use to do that. I had a bunch of stringie junk on the back panel of my glass. It was all related to the dinoflagalletes in my tank. Got rid of the dino's got rid of the stuff on the back panel glass.

[mscarpena]

I had dinoflagalletes and my snails were fine. If you do have these guys I added a rabbit fish and it ate all of my dino's up. It also ate some zoo's so keep an eye on that, but the algae is so ugly it was kind of worth it.

[M King]

What kind of snails , some do not live long.

[asl4me76]

I had dinoflagalletes and my snails were fine. If you do have these guys I added a rabbit fish and it ate all of my dino's up. It also ate some zoo's so keep an eye on that, but the algae is so ugly it was kind of worth it.

If you truly had dino's then they would have slowed down. As it is a toxic to them, so you should have had some die off. As for a rabbit fish, it's not something they eat to my knowledge as it is not like hair algae at all. So, I don't see how you got rid of them with a fish.

There is only one way of getting rid of them to my knowledge, and that is through starving them out of your tank. Otherwise, you didn't get rid of them permanently, but rather temporarily. You didn't fix the problem, just the symptom.