HELP!!! PB TANG Question!!

[WHATitDOfishies]

Hey, i am new to the hobby! :eek1:
i have had this tank for about 2 1/2 mounths.I have a reef 75g tank with 45p of live rock and geting 40p of live rock torrow. i also have live sand. I got a 75g tank, t5 lights, and a 30g sump with a octapus pskimmer.i have 2 corals and one PBT. Today when i got up i saw he was heavy breathing and i dont know what to do b.c i am new to this hobby. I did a 5g water change this morning. hes breathing very fast so idn what to do. Does he need oxgen? How would i go about givin him Oxgen?

[prickles]

What you need to do is check all your parameters.
Salinity
ph
ammonia
nitrites
nitrates

Are your pumps running? I would say the heavy breathing could be a number of things. My first guess would be ammonia poisoning. If he is hanging out at the top of the tank, then lack of oxygen is more likely.

I would be VERY careful adding more liverock and would not do it all at once because it could cause an ammonia spike which could kill stuff.

If your ammonia or nitrites are not zero, I would recommend a much larger than 5g water change. Depending on the severity of the problem, 25-50% would be what I would do.

[WHATitDOfishies]

What you need to do is check all your parameters.
Salinity
ph
ammonia
nitrites
nitrates

Are your pumps running? I would say the heavy breathing could be a number of things. My first guess would be ammonia poisoning. If he is hanging out at the top of the tank, then lack of oxygen is more likely.

I would be VERY careful adding more liverock and would not do it all at once because it could cause an ammonia spike which could kill stuff.

If your ammonia or nitrites are not zero, I would recommend a much larger than 5g water change. Depending on the severity of the problem, 25-50% would be what I would do.

Hey hes hanging at the bottom of the tank. What test kit do u use? i use strips that show colorer not #s. all the colors match for a healthy water chem. My lfs said that strips work as good at test kits also they said that adding rock in 2 stages would be better but i guess not, should i upgrade my test kit then?
I guess i need to learn my stuff on here instead of the "lsf's manger thats a "pro salt water keeper".

also should i do another water change torrow then? or wait tell next week to do the water change?

Thxs Jake

[flamron]

Powder blue tangs are a very poor choice for a first fish - especially for a 75G. Tank is about 1/4 the size it should be. PBT are a very finicky fish which will die if your parameters and tank aren't pristine. I would imagine that the fish is stressing out because of its small housing.

My guess is that this fish is likely a goner. Probably not news you want to hear, but more than likely the truth.

Especially if you are adding more rock (cured or uncured) to the tank. I'd be surprised if you have even fully cycled the tank in 2.5 months.

Be sure to ask lots of questions on here - there is a wealth of knowledge here that will help you have the opportunity to be successful. I say opportunity because some will ask advice and then go against it.

If you can, get the PBT into a considerably larger system asap. If that isn't an option, you may want to take it back to your LFS. Although I'm not sure how well it would handle the stress of either of those options.

Like I said - fish is likely a goner. Please do research before purchasing anything for your tank. And do ask lots of questions here. Asking if you should keep a PBT in a 75 would have led to a resounding "NO" - hopefully keeping you from buying one.

Start slow and take your time. Only bad things happen quickly in reefing.

HTH,

[prickles]

Look around his gill area. Is it reddish a little? This would indicate bad water quality too. I'm surprised your test kit has no numbers on it. You are looking for ppm readings such as 0 or 0.5 or 1. Something like that. I have a master test kit from API, you can buy it at both petsmart and petco. It has everything you need to start.

I have read many times that strips are less accurate. I would go with fluids.

Unfortunately you have added an "expert" fish as your first one. If the worst happens, and he dies, don't add another pbt until your tank has seasoned for at least 6 months. They supposedly don't do well in anything but pristine water conditions, which new tanks just don't have. They also are territorial and can cause difficulties with later fish additions. Therefore they are best added near the end of your fish stocking.

While I'm ranting... Keeping a pbt and several other species of fish in a tank that has ich is virtually impossible in my opinion. You are in a position to set up your tank correctly from the beginning. Quarantine EVERY fish you put in for at least 4 weeks in either hyposalinity or copper. you will wish you did if you don't.

Water changes are like giving your fish unpolluted air if you do them correctly. You wouldn't want to wait until next week to get clean air would you? Also if you changed 5-10% of poisoned air for clean air in a small room, do you think you would notice? I doubt you would. If you do a 5% water change, you are only decreasing any toxins by 5%. 95% of them are still there!! Water changes for emergency purposes should be at least 25% in my experience. Do one ASAP, assuming you know how to do it correctly. <---not meant to be rude btw.

[flamron]

If the worst happens, and he dies, don't add another pbt until your tank has seasoned for at least 6 months.

I'd change this line to ever. 75 is too small for PBT - period.

[WHATitDOfishies]

I'd change this line to ever. 75 is too small for PBT - period.
Hes a small BPT. i was only going tokeep him for less then a year.

[flamron]

Hes a small BPT. i was only going tokeep him for less then a year.

Try telling him that.....:blown:

[prickles]

Hes a small BPT. i was only going tokeep him for less then a year.

If you are anything like most of the people here on this forum, giving him up after a year would be like giving up your new puppy in a year. Don't count on not getting attached to your fish.

None of this is relevant until he lives. Ignore the "your tank is too small" comments until you figure out how to keep it alive in the short run. Your tank size is not going to kill it in the next few weeks. People QT fish in much smaller tanks, so not relevant.

[flamron]

I disagree prickles. PBT are very sensitive, even in the short run. I've offered suggestions on keeping the tang alive in the "short run".

Not trying to be the tang police - just trying to offer up my thoughts on keeping incompatible fish in tanks that haven't cycled, nor are large enough.

Any update on the fish? I have a feeling this thread will be moot within the next few days - very sorry for you loss.

[WHATitDOfishies]

I will let u know how it gos within the next week. i AM going to LOL at prinkles when the PBT makes it.

[flamron]

I will let u know how it gos within the next week. i AM going to LOL at prinkles when the PBT makes it.


I'd be glad if the fish lives too. I hate when animals die. Especially by the hand of people capable of knowing better.


:beer: Heres to hoping you don't have to grab him out of the tank with your net in the next 96 hours.

I am "unsubscribing" - so don't expect to hear any more of my "ranting". I'd hate to tell you any more truth than you want to hear.

[percula99]

Just in case Flamron is stil listening, I QT'd my PBT in a 40 gallon tank for 4 weeks. He was 3 inches at the time and did very well. That was two years ago and he is now 6 inches or more. I do agree with you however that a PBT needs a large tank to thrive and be healthy long term. The QT was always a short term residence.

WHATitDOfishies...never buy a fish with the intent of only keeping it for a year and then getting rid of it. After a fish has acclimated itself to your tank, your water quality, your feeding regime, which of course have all become HIS routines, changing all that will negatively affect him as he will now have to adapt again to somebody else's tank, water quality, feeding regime. When I buy a fish it is for life. I have researched it and know this is the fish I want to add to me reef. The only time I get rid of one is if it has become a bully and disturbs the peace of the tank.

[tibob32]

How much water movement do you have? Tangs need very oxygenated water. Your water oxygen levels could be too low for the tang

[TampaReefer79]

How much water movement do you have? Tangs need very oxygenated water. Your water oxygen levels could be too low for the tang

ESPECIALLY for the PBT. I highly doubt the OP has enough water movement in this tank for this fish. Not to beat a dead horse, but I also think it would be best to get it out of that tank asap. Whether it 'makes it in the short run' and you 'LOL' at people, it should be removed from that tank.

[michealprater]

I always wonder why people do not read primers and stickies. It always ends up the same way, but people will still argue it. I doubt there will be much LOL'ing going on here in a few days.

[WHATitDOfishies]

Update:
Hes going great, hes no LONGER HEAVY BREATHING! LOL... wish means hes gonna make it. Hes swiming and eating great also.
I have alot of water movement.. I had to take a power head out b/c the current was too strong..
And i am going to keep the fish know for about a year.

[TampaReefer79]

Update:
Hes going great, hes no LONGER HEAVY BREATHING! LOL... wish means hes gonna make it. Hes swiming and eating great also.
I have alot of water movement.. I had to take a power head out b/c the current was too strong..
And i am going to keep the fish know for about a year.

Bad move. :thumbdown I don't know what this fish did to you, but you seem pretty determined on trying to kill it.

[michealprater]

I wish you all the luck, but I do hope you upgrade sooner than a year. PBTs are beautiful fish and I would like to see him live, and live in a suitable enviroment. What part of IL are you in?

[lostintheocean]

planning on keeping fish for the "short run" is a poor idea at best, what were you going to do in a year trade him for another smaller one to stress out again in a small tank?
get some decent test kits and learn to use them. once you can keep your params stable and in the correct range get an easy fish that is the appropriate size for you tank and take things slow.

[TampaReefer79]

planning on keeping fish for the "short run" is a poor idea at best, what were you going to do in a year trade him for another smaller one to stress out again in a small tank?
get some decent test kits and learn to use them. once you can keep your params stable and in the correct range get an easy fish that is the appropriate size for you tank and take things slow.

Couldn't have said it better bud.

We're just trying to help you out, please believe that. Well, we're trying to help the fish too.

If you can handle some constructive criticism...

The tank is too small for that fish. Even for only a year. And yes even if it's a small one.

Your tank is too new for this fish.

You are too new to the hobby for this fish, especially being a new hobbyist with a newly set up tank.

As mentioned, get some test kits and learn how to test your parameters. Get them all in check for a few months while you have some easily kept fish in your 75...clowns, chromis, lawnmower blenny...tons of fish will work out better for you than a PBT at THIS juncture. I know it sucks to hear, but this is what's best for your fish. Cus what you're probably going to do is kill this fish and then replace it with another tang as per the lfs. :thumbdown

Oh and don't add any uncured live rock. You'll kill the fish for sure. And I highly doubt the tank had 'too much flow' for the PBT. What kind of powerheads do you have in it and what are the gph ratings? Where are they located and how do you have them directed? There is really no such thing as TOO MUCH FLOW in a reef tank, especially for a PBT. There IS such a thing as 'bad flow' though. Powerheads such as the old Aquaclears that were hundreds of gallons an hour coming out of a pinhole point directly at a coral 3 inches from it would be no good. Pumps like Tunze's and Vortech's take care of this. I have over 30,000 gallons per hour ripping through my 375 and I could add more. It's all in how it's placed.

[snorvich]

Sort of sounds like an ammonia spike. This tank is only a couple of months old and it may not have stabilized. In any case, the tank is too small and too new for a PBT. Go slower and learn how to manage your tank before trying an "advanced skill fish".

[WHATitDOfishies]

Sort of sounds like an ammonia spike. This tank is only a couple of months old and it may not have stabilized. In any case, the tank is too small and too new for a PBT. Go slower and learn how to manage your tank before trying an "advanced skill fish".

and which it was, i am new and all but i got a freind that helps me with what fish to get and he helps me. Hes got a 120g and a 25nano and a 180g. the 1st 3 weeks i had the tang he was fine and had no problems.
Thx 4 all the help all but i am going to still keep the fish longer tell my friend can take the tang.:strooper:

[TampaReefer79]

and which it was, i am new and all but i got a freind that helps me with what fish to get and he helps me. Hes got a 120g and a 25nano and a 180g. the 1st 3 weeks i had the tang he was fine and had no problems.
Thx 4 all the help all but i am going to still keep the fish longer tell my friend can take the tang.:strooper:

:sad1:

[prickles]

you can lead a horse to water...

That being said. OP, did you figure out WHY your PBT was gasping? You will want to know that so you can keep it from reoccurring and perhaps getting worse.

Remember everything everyone posts here is an opinion, but if you read 10 posts, and 8 of them say the same thing, you should consider listening.

[snorvich]

and which it was, i am new and all but i got a freind that helps me with what fish to get and he helps me. Hes got a 120g and a 25nano and a 180g. the 1st 3 weeks i had the tang he was fine and had no problems.
Thx 4 all the help all but i am going to still keep the fish longer tell my friend can take the tang.:strooper:

Ah, your friend helps you? And he advised you to buy a PBT for a brand new tank? And he did not know about testing properly? And he did not recognize an ammonia spike? :idea: :bigeyes:

[michealprater]

Guys you are wasting your breath. I can tell by his posts, he does not want help, he just wants to stir the pot and you are giving him more ammo. Encouraging someone to continue to post more bad advice for newbs is a bad idea for all of us. Lets move on.

[robot2222]

don't worry that fish will be dead in about 2 months if that..........

[TampaReefer79]

Guys you are wasting your breath. I can tell by his posts, he does not want help, he just wants to stir the pot and you are giving him more ammo. Encouraging someone to continue to post more bad advice for newbs is a bad idea for all of us. Lets move on.

Nicely put. :lol2:

[goose777]

i need the pbt expert is there one out there / not just someone who reads other peoples posts and repeat them i mean someone who has successfully kept them ? i rescued one from petco the other day! he looked really healthy he is in quarantine 60gl with a 265 gl waiting for him. my concern is that he is not getting too agressive with the nori like the rest of my tangs do in another tank water parameters are good . just looking for ideas to get him chomping .

he is picking at the lr and the side of the tank like crazy i have red and green ocean nutrition under rocks tried few different ways .

he picks the damn rocks and really doesn't pick the seaweed it is driving me insane!!!

i am pretty in the know with the tangs but this guy as stated everywhere is a challenge!

i am hoping the picking at rocks is a good sign he will pick up on the great nori i am providing him

any input greatly appreciated !and sorry for partial book but i am really stressing this one !!

[snorvich]

i need the pbt expert is there one out there / not just someone who reads other peoples posts and repeat them i mean someone who has successfully kept them ? i rescued one from petco the other day! he looked really healthy he is in quarantine 60gl with a 265 gl waiting for him. my concern is that he is not getting too agressive with the nori like the rest of my tangs do in another tank water parameters are good . just looking for ideas to get him chomping .

he is picking at the lr and the side of the tank like crazy i have red and green ocean nutrition under rocks tried few different ways .

he picks the damn rocks and really doesn't pick the seaweed it is driving me insane!!!

i am pretty in the know with the tangs but this guy as stated everywhere is a challenge!

i am hoping the picking at rocks is a good sign he will pick up on the great nori i am providing him

any input greatly appreciated !and sorry for partial book but i am really stressing this one !!

Try posting in the PBT stickie. Lots of folks read and help in that thread. :clown:

[michealprater]

Try posting in the PBT stickie. Lots of folks read and help in that thread. :clown:

+1

or start a new thread. Your tank is proper size, and you are quaranting, so you are off on the right foot. You will get lots of usable advice.

[snorvich]

Generally the sticky threads are frequented by passionate keepers of that type of fish (I watch the leopard wrasse sticky, as an example) so there is generally greater expertise focused on those threads.

[WHATitDOfishies]

Well thxs all. i just wanted help and it turned around to tang basic keeping. ANd yea maybe 2 mouths but yea thats a win for me. i mean a newb keeping a PBT for 2 mounths is longer then some of the "pros" at keeping fish. Lol.

[TampaReefer79]

Well thxs all. i just wanted help and it turned around to tang basic keeping. ANd yea maybe 2 mouths but yea thats a win for me. i mean a newb keeping a PBT for 2 mounths is longer then some of the "pros" at keeping fish. Lol.

Huh?

[michealprater]

Generally the sticky threads are frequented by passionate keepers of that type of fish (I watch the leopard wrasse sticky, as an example) so there is generally greater expertise focused on those threads.

***? What "pro" was not able to keep a pbt for 2 months. At this point you are a detriment to aquarium knowledge. Thanks for spreading your cancer, mr vick

[TampaReefer79]

It wasn't 2 months, it was two MOUTHS. Jeez.

[WHATitDOfishies]

don't worry that fish will be dead in about 2 months if that..........

UpDate: My PBT is doing GREAT!!!:lolspin:
hes not gonna die in 2 months.

[michealprater]

Yay!:hmm4:
:rolleyes:

[TampaReefer79]

UpDate: My PBT is doing GREAT!!!:lolspin:
hes not gonna die in 2 months.

Nobody said it would. Check back here in two MOUTHS though.

[ReefKeeper2009]

Why do people always want credit for something they are supposed to do. I hope the pbt makes it though. Do you have any pictures? Tony

[StripestheEel]

A healthy PBT is one that is fat, has a large tank, is able to graze when needed, is able to show it's speed and agility when it wants without running into the other side of the tank in half a second and one that is in a tank that does not have a system volume with only 2 numbers.

What are you going to do in one year??

[WHATitDOfishies]

Why do people always want credit for something they are supposed to do. I hope the pbt makes it though. Do you have any pictures? Tony

I will try to post some,i dont have a some what legit camra.:worried:

[WHATitDOfishies]

A healthy PBT is one that is fat, has a large tank, is able to graze when needed, is able to show it's speed and agility when it wants without running into the other side of the tank in half a second and one that is in a tank that does not have a system volume with only 2 numbers.

What are you going to do in one year??

The PBT is going to go in my friends tank thats 3x bigger.:beer:

[StripestheEel]

The PBT is going to go in my friends tank thats 3x bigger.:beer:

Not to be a butthole by any means but would it not be a more sensible idea to do this now so that the fish is able to live life to the fullest. You can then research into fish which are better suited to your tank?

[michealprater]

Why do people always want credit for something they are supposed to do. I hope the pbt makes it though. Do you have any pictures? Tony

I take care of my kids!!!! Lol

[RealReef7]

UpDate: My PBT is doing GREAT!!!:lolspin:
hes not gonna die in 2 months.

Wow please tell me your secretes! Your PBT was breathing hard, struggling and hanging around the bottom and just like that its fine and dandy? You must be some expert hobbyist who doesn't know how to test water!:thumbsup:

[TampaReefer79]

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t151/204950/popcorn.gif

[snorvich]

Rotflmao :confused: Why do these threads happen?

[StripestheEel]

If these threads didn't happen the world would stop rotating on its axis.

[ReefKeeper2009]

What do you mean. I love the person asking for help then doesn't want to hear the answer threads. :lolspin:

[michealprater]

They are without a doubt, the most common type of tang thread.

[flfireman1]

Hey! I just got my 1st fish in my 95G tank!!!:dance: Its the Brown Powder Tang and I just love!!! him. I am in need of help of seeking good tankmate(S) for my tang! So PLZ help me. Thx
As if there was any doubt to the degree of this guys intelligence. He originally posted this on 3/28. So not only did he not know what size aquarium he has, he also was refering to a powder blue tang. Not that this makes much difference.

[sslak]

Well thxs all. i just wanted help and it turned around to tang basic keeping. ANd yea maybe 2 mouths but yea thats a win for me. i mean a newb keeping a PBT for 2 mounths is longer then some of the "pros" at keeping fish. Lol.

2 months is not a "win" for a fish that can live 10 years.

[snorvich]

2 months is not a "win" for a fish that can live 10 years.

Or longer. Agreed.