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View Full Version : Regal Angel. Red spot with cotton growth on fin


michealprater
04/07/2010, 08:55 PM
Need some help with treatment in QT. Got home from work today and Regal #2 had a red spot on his right side bottom fin. It has a tiny cottony growth, with what looks like red irritation. His top fin appears to have the same irritation, but no cottony growth. I am treating with cupramine and prazipro. Should I be using something else. Sorry for the pics, these are the best I could do.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p188/michealprater/DSCN1169.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p188/michealprater/DSCN1168.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p188/michealprater/DSCN1162.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p188/michealprater/DSCN1160.jpg

michealprater
04/08/2010, 05:18 AM
morning bump.

slief
04/08/2010, 09:28 AM
Cant tell what it is from your pics but it sounds like some sort of parsite. First thing I would do is get a cleaner wrasp...The cleaner wrasp will get rid of the growth in minutes and they are very inexpensive. Also get some cleaner shrimp as they will often circumvent this kind of stuff. I had a similar growth on a cow fish and I removed him from the tank and scraped it off with my finger nail. It was completely gone the next day and has not returned.

michealprater
04/08/2010, 09:48 AM
I believe you mean cleaner wrasse. I do have one in the display, not in the QT, but considering the redness around the area suggests there maybe some infection. In that case, a cleaner wrasse will not help. But thanks for the effort.

I prefer not to handle fish as it removes the protective coating from their skin, thus opening them up for more infection.

JHemdal
04/08/2010, 09:52 AM
"cleaner wrasp" - ummm, prolly won't help, this doesn't look like a parasitic infection to me.

Hard to see from the pictures. When I see an angel with issues involving a number of fin spines and no issues with the soft rays (except that bite in the caudal fin of yours) I right away think that this is damage due to being caught up in a net within the past seven days or so. Knowing how easily Pygoplites get Lymphocystis after being caught in nets, I'm thinking that *could* be the issue on the fish's pelvic fin (but it looks a bit too red to me).

Is the fish eating? How long have you had it? If it is eating well and you've had it less than a week, I wouldn't do anything (especially like trying to scrape the lesion off).


Jay

michealprater
04/08/2010, 10:21 AM
I have had him since April 2nd. I did not net him, but I am not sure what the wholesaler did when they handled it. I am really hoping to save him because it is a great regal. Eating flake food since the day after I got it. I am currently treating with cupramine and prazipro. The bite mark also had to happen prior to me owning it, it has been in QT alone the entire time.

I know the pics are bad, but maybe knowing where to look will help.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p188/michealprater/untitled4.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p188/michealprater/untitled3.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p188/michealprater/untitled2.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p188/michealprater/untitled.jpg

JHemdal
04/08/2010, 10:44 AM
Well, I'd say that the wholesaler caught it up in one of those green nets. That's what makes those little "flags" along the dorsal spines, where the skin get pulled down just a bit. The clincher would be if either of the gill / cheek spines has disrupted skin on them.

Jay

DJREEF
04/08/2010, 10:54 AM
That's a bacterial infection caused by collecting/shipping trauma, and stress. Hit him with a broad spectrum antibiotic like nitrofurazone, ampicillin or sulfamethazine. Treat him until he's healed.

DJ

michealprater
04/08/2010, 11:55 AM
That's a bacterial infection caused by collecting/shipping trauma, and stress. Hit him with a broad spectrum antibiotic like nitrofurazone, ampicillin or sulfamethazine. Treat him until he's healed.

DJ
Can these be used in conjuntion with prazipro and cupramine or should I do a 100% water change first?

michealprater
04/08/2010, 11:55 AM
Well, I'd say that the wholesaler caught it up in one of those green nets. That's what makes those little "flags" along the dorsal spines, where the skin get pulled down just a bit. The clincher would be if either of the gill / cheek spines has disrupted skin on them.

Jay

Gill spines, gills and mouth as a whole look fine. It is simply on the fins.

michealprater
04/08/2010, 11:57 AM
nitrofurazone, ampicillin or sulfamethazine.

DJ

Did a search on Premium Aquatics for all three, no matches.

DJREEF
04/08/2010, 12:01 PM
Can these be used in conjuntion with prazipro and cupramine or should I do a 100% water change first?

I would dose them together, but keep in mind that you going to have to kick the flow up, and do very regular partial water changes (at least every other day) to keep the water straight, and to ensure adequate circulation. You'll have to add back the medications that you pulling out via water change. This is going to be a PIA, but then you did buy the ticket, so now you ride.

DJ

michealprater
04/08/2010, 12:04 PM
will any of these work?

http://premiumaquatics.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PA&Product_Code=PL-AME250&Category_Code=Medicine

http://premiumaquatics.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PA&Product_Code=PL-AMU30&Category_Code=Medicine

http://premiumaquatics.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PA&Product_Code=RY-AAP55P&Category_Code=Medicine

http://premiumaquatics.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PA&Product_Code=RY-AMD60100&Category_Code=Medicine

DJREEF
04/08/2010, 12:10 PM
Sorry, but I have no idea what's in any of those products. I usually dose the antibiotic directly by name. From the description, though it looks like the Uni would be the one to go with. You really would want to pick up something locally and not wait for a delivery. This stuff can maim and kill in a matter of days if left unchecked.

DJ

michealprater
04/08/2010, 12:21 PM
No local option, but if I order before 2, PA makes it here overnight, even with ground shipping. It is my only option.

DJREEF
04/08/2010, 12:24 PM
See if they have something like this

http://www.marinedepot.com/Aquarium_Pharmaceuticals_Furan_2_Medication_10ct_Powder_Packets_Saltwater_Bacterial_Fungal_Medicatio ns-Aquarium_Pharmaceuticals_API_MARS_Fishcare-AP1831-FIMEBF-vi.html

michealprater
04/13/2010, 09:32 AM
Well Regal #2 seemed to get better, then yesterday he looked worse. More cottony spots and I believe it is velvet. I went to Petsmart which did not have much of a selection and got "Fungus Cure" by API. It says it was for freshwater but I looked up the ingredients on my ipod touch on the internet and it said they could also be used for marine fish. They are acriflavine and victoria green b. The fish is still eating, and seems ok. A little scratching and funny swimming here and there. His breathing does seem somewhat heavy, but not out of control. Should I attempt a freshwater bath?

DJREEF
04/13/2010, 11:05 AM
If you think it's velvet, then why did you buy a fungus remedy?

DJ

michealprater
04/13/2010, 12:04 PM
Its not velvet. Cupramine did not affect it. It got worse during copper treatment. Despite being in the hobby 14 years, I have very little experience with fish disease. I guess I have been fortunate. I have been told it is about 10 different things. Who do I listen to. I am doing the best I can with what I have to work with.

DJREEF
04/13/2010, 12:54 PM
I'll make it simple for you. Listen to me. Bacterial infection = antibiotic. Ask your vet for something if you can't find anything locally. You really don't have much time the screw around with this.

DJ

michealprater
04/13/2010, 01:03 PM
I thought acriflavin was an antibiotic. Not your fault, but man this is frustrating!

michealprater
04/13/2010, 01:04 PM
Petsmart has this. Will it work?

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4829

DJREEF
04/13/2010, 01:06 PM
Yes. Get it ASAP, and use as directed for saltwater (usually double the dose for freshwater).

DJ

michealprater
04/13/2010, 01:10 PM
I get off at 4 and will be heading directly over there. I am assuming I should discard the water in the tank now? Will not be an issue because I use water from my system so DT and QT params are identical at all times.

michealprater
04/13/2010, 01:11 PM
BTW, thanks for helping.

on a side note, I have family in Houston and you kinda look like Bill Goldberg LOL.

DJREEF
04/13/2010, 01:12 PM
Yea, I get that alot.

DJ

michealprater
04/13/2010, 01:16 PM
I get off at 4 and will be heading directly over there. I am assuming I should discard the water in the tank now? Will not be an issue because I use water from my system so DT and QT params are identical at all times.


Can you respond to the quote above. I caused you to miss it with the Goldberg comment.

Here is the directions from Fosters. Does not differenciate between fresh and salt.

Active ingredients per packet: 664 mg Sodium Sulfathiazole, 168 mg Sodium Sulfamethazine, and 168 mg Sodium Sulfacetamide per packet.

Directions for use
For best results, remove activated carbon or filter cartridge from filter and continue aeration. For each 10 gallons of water, empty one packet directly into aquarium. Repeat dose after 24 hours. Wait another 24 hours then change 25% of the aquarium water. Repeat this treatment for a second time, for a total of 4 doses. Then, make a final 25% water change and add fresh activated carbon or replace filter cartridge. Treatment may be repeated if necessary.

DJREEF
04/13/2010, 01:20 PM
I get off at 4 and will be heading directly over there. I am assuming I should discard the water in the tank now? Will not be an issue because I use water from my system so DT and QT params are identical at all times.

Cool, now understand that you're going to have to do regular (at least every other day) partials to keep the water straight, and add back the meds you take out with the water changes. So buy as much as you can because you're prob going to use alot of it.

DJ

DJREEF
04/13/2010, 01:21 PM
Can you respond to the quote above. I caused you to miss it with the Goldberg comment.

Here is the directions from Fosters. Does not differenciate between fresh and salt.

Active ingredients per packet: 664 mg Sodium Sulfathiazole, 168 mg Sodium Sulfamethazine, and 168 mg Sodium Sulfacetamide per packet.

Directions for use
For best results, remove activated carbon or filter cartridge from filter and continue aeration. For each 10 gallons of water, empty one packet directly into aquarium. Repeat dose after 24 hours. Wait another 24 hours then change 25% of the aquarium water. Repeat this treatment for a second time, for a total of 4 doses. Then, make a final 25% water change and add fresh activated carbon or replace filter cartridge. Treatment may be repeated if necessary.

Perfect. See above.

DJ

michealprater
04/13/2010, 01:23 PM
That will not be a problem. My water is medicated with fungus cure. Should I discard the medicated water? It should not shock the fish because temp, salinity, and PH are all identical from DT to QT

DJREEF
04/13/2010, 01:32 PM
I wouldn't worry about that. Just get the right stuff in there. The fungus stuff will eventually make it's way out of there with the regular water changes since you won't be adding anymore.


DJ

michealprater
04/13/2010, 01:35 PM
Thanks a lot. I am due for my water change today (I have already been doing them every other day) So I will do the change, then put the Triple Sulfa in. Hope this works out. So far this fish seems pretty tough for a Regal. They usually go down fairly quick, IME. Of course my experence has always been starvation or swim blatter issues with these fish.

DJREEF
04/13/2010, 01:38 PM
Yea, if you can keep him eating he's got a fighting chance.

Boost the circulation as much as possible.

DJ

crooks
04/13/2010, 01:43 PM
Are your cottony spots Lymphocystis?

michealprater
04/13/2010, 01:55 PM
Yea, if you can keep him eating he's got a fighting chance.

Boost the circulation as much as possible.

DJ

He is still eating well. I have a Koralia 1 in a 20 long for circulation. I can add a maxijet 1200 if you think it will help.

michealprater
04/13/2010, 02:00 PM
Are your cottony spots Lymphocystis?


It is likely. Based off what I have read, Lymphocystis is not a killer. But the secondary infections that come with it can be. In that case, DJREEF's suggestion could have me covered.

DJREEF
04/13/2010, 03:58 PM
Well, you don't want the tank looking like a toilet flushing, but there should b enough diffuse flow to keep things moving. O2 levels drop when meds are introduced to the system, in most cases. I'd say add it. If it looks like he's having a hard time navigating, or if the temp jumps too much, then pull it back out.

DJ

michealprater
04/13/2010, 05:46 PM
Well first dose of sulfa is in. Still eating. Fins look worse, like they are rotting away.

DJREEF
04/13/2010, 08:49 PM
Yea, that's what I'm saying. Once bacterial infections take hold it they go geometric in no time. That's why I was saying that u didn't have much time.

DJ

michealprater
04/13/2010, 08:51 PM
Yea, that's what I'm saying. Once bacterial infections take hold it they go geometric in no time. That's why I was saying that u didn't have much time.

DJ

So you think it is too late?

michealprater
04/14/2010, 03:02 PM
#2 was dead when I got home from work.

DJREEF
04/14/2010, 08:38 PM
Crap. Sorry to hear that.

DJ

michealprater
04/15/2010, 05:15 AM
Crap. Sorry to hear that.

DJ

Sorry I didn't listen to you sooner.

michealprater
04/15/2010, 10:30 AM
Just to add to that, you have been on RC longer than me, but I have made my rounds and as much good advice I have found here, I have found 10x that amount of bad advice. So please pardon my skeptism at first, it was not intentionally personal. Join date of 2000, if anyone understands it is you DJ. Thanks again for your attempts to help.

DJREEF
04/15/2010, 10:51 AM
Don't mention it. I'm glad to help. Always continue to question.

DJ