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rydr119
04/08/2010, 04:21 PM
So now that I have my 75gal QT set up I was wondering how I acclimate my fish to Hypo? I just want to be clear that Hypo is the safest way to kill Ich right? Also should I put any rock in the tank or just some PVC for the fish to hide in?
Thanks Gina

shawna1972
04/09/2010, 12:23 AM
I would personally do cupramine if it were me but nothing is safe really. Hypo has it's downs as well.

Chris27
04/09/2010, 08:04 AM
If you're on a time crunch you don't have to acclimate most fish to hypo, what type of fish are we talking about?

As for the rock or pvc, describe your setup a little better, is it a QT or your display tank?

I'll also agree that copper is the way to go, it doesn't affect your bio-filter and you don't have to re-acclimate fish back up to normal seawater.

jenglish
04/09/2010, 01:08 PM
You want to add your fish to the tank with the same salinity as your display and slowly change the salinity.

Hypo done right affects the biofilter but does not destroy it. It is changed slowly enough for bacteria populations to adapt somewhat.

Copper is faster and has a wider therapuetic range. Hypo is safer and requires nothing most of us don't already have nor clean up to make the tank invert safe again. THere are tradeoffs to either. I prefer hypo for most instances but copper has it's place too (especiallly hypo resistent ich)

rydr119
04/09/2010, 04:20 PM
Well I have a 75 that I am going to use its running regular salinity right now for cycling purposes. I got a marineland HOB filter with a bio-wheel. Its called a penguin 350. I am taking the fish out of my display which I was told needs to be fish free for 6 to 8 weeks. I have a Blue hippo, 2- barred rabbit, an achilles, a pair of tomato clowns, a pair of flame wrasses and a Melanurus Wrasse. The 2 tangs and the rabbit are the largest of the fish. The only problem is ICH which I got from adding some clurpea that I bought for the tangs to eat. I cannot think of any other way I could have gotten it. I was originally going to use formalin b/c it doesn't stay in the water and build up, but I have never had to anything like this before and I really don't screw up and harm my fish.

Chris27
04/09/2010, 09:49 PM
All those fish are fine to treat with hypo or copper....just be sure to have lot's of hiding spots (thinwall pvc), watch them closely and be prepared to remove any troublemakers to another tank. That's a lot of fish at once in a 75, but it's doable with a well functioning bio-filter.

WDLV
04/10/2010, 07:55 AM
I'm fine with dropping it to 1.009 in about an hour. I also sometimes drop it before new additions arrive and just acclimate them from the bag to the hypo tank. With Ick I would try hypo first if it's not an aggressive infestation. If you don't see a marked improvement in 24 hrs, start a regamin of cuppramine.

WI reefer55
04/10/2010, 10:45 AM
I'm fine with dropping it to 1.009 in about an hour. I also sometimes drop it before new additions arrive and just acclimate them from the bag to the hypo tank. With Ick I would try hypo first if it's not an aggressive infestation. If you don't see a marked improvement in 24 hrs, start a regamin of cuppramine.


that just sounds wrong.

24 hours ok but 1

that just sounds like a insane amount of stress on the fish

rydr119
04/10/2010, 02:14 PM
So I pretty much just have to slowly replace the tank water with ro/di water until the desired salinity is achieved right? As for the copper if I wanted to treat with that just follow the instructions on the bottle right? It sucks b/c its only 1 fish with the ich the others are fine but I know if I only treat the one fish and put it back its like I have done nothing in the first place.
Thanks Gina

WI reefer55
04/10/2010, 07:52 PM
yes thats correct and problem with treating only one fish is the others will probley get it sometime.

so it just best to treat all of them.

I am having the same problem just put a blue hippo in my tank hes the only one with ich now but I am sure my others will get it soon. I plan to treat my DT. I am unsure if I am going to use hypo or copper I have used cupramine in the past with a sixline and my clown and it did not end up so well for the sixline but he was just not healthy from the start but the clown showed no signs of stress through out the whole treatment.


if it was me and I had a 75 QT I would use cupramine BTW i used seachems copper test kit. It was a lot less work than hypo sounds.

WDLV
04/11/2010, 01:06 PM
that just sounds wrong.

24 hours ok but 1

that just sounds like a insane amount of stress on the fish

Think that's bad? Ever hear of a freshwater dip?

Here's my regamin. It is geared toward clowns but is adaptable for larger fish needing larger tanks. It also explains the idea behind a hypo bath and why you want to "shock" the organisms you're trying to kill.


Disease Prevention
The three most important things I know on this subject are:
1. Quarrantine
2. Quarrantine
3. Quarrantine

Supplies for QTs
- 10 gallon aquarium
- Power Filter rated for 40-50 gallons
- 50W heater
- Glass thermometer with suction cup
- Two 6" ceramic tiles or one 6" flower pot (for shelter)
- 50 gallon salt mix
- Two 5 gallon buckets (one for clean water one for dirty or medicated water)
- Glass canopy or 1 sheet of "eggcrate" lighting grid
- 1 pair small diaginal cutting pliars (for cutting the eggcrate to size.)

Optional items
- Aquarium stand
- strip light fixture (PCF if you plan to keep corals/anemones)
- Pre-Fabricated water syphon or 1/2" clear tubing from home depot.

Recommended Medications
- 1 bottle of Kordon's Formalin III
- 1 bottle of Cupramine
- 1 bottle of Amquell

Set up the system and allow it to run for at least 24 hours so the temperature can stabilize. If temp adjustments are needed, adjust to the thermometer; not the heater dial.
When you are ready to add the fish, it is generally accepted practice to float the bag for 15 minutes to allow the temps to stabilize. Drain 50% of the water into a waste water bucket and refill the volume you took out with water from the QT. You should repeat this process two or more times. When you are ready to add the fish, dump almost all the water into the waste water bucket and pour the fish into the QT. I avoid using nets wherever possible to avoid scraping or rubbing off slime and scales. These kinds of minor damage can make fish more succeptable to infection.

I usually set the tank temp for 75-78 degrees F unless it's a specamin like A. latezonatus that requires cooler temps.

If you have a particularly fragile fish like A. chrysopterus or A. nigripes, I recommend setting the specific gravity to 1.009 in advance. Use a refractometer. Swing arm hydrometers can be grossly innacurate. Hypo-salinity will kill many of the paracites that live on our fish. It's referred to as osmotic shock therapy. As the title suggests, you want to shock the organisms you are trying to kill with a sudden change in osmotic pressure so they literally explode. This is not the case when returning to regular salinity. This should be done of the course of a few days. To do this I like to allow the QT to evaporate naturally. Instead of using fresh makeup water to keep it at the same SG I add saltwater to slowly bring the salinity back up.

Quarrantine should be performed for a minimum of one month after purchase or the last symptom of disease. Whichever is longer. I usually end up quarrantining fish for 90 days. 30 for inverts.

*Invertebrates and some scale-less fishes will not survive hyposalinity.

With clowns, the diseases you will want to be most cautious of are Brooklynella, Amyloodinium and Ick (in that order.) With fish that I know to be succeptable to brook or amyloo I automatically add Formalin III to the system. Otherwise, I look at their breathing, behavior and skin (in that order) a couple times each day. The hypo-salinity may well knock out any of these three diseases before they have a chance to take hold. However, I highly recommend having the above recommended meds on hand. If the hypo doesn't knock it out, you probably have a very aggressive case on your hands and time is critical.

*Please do not blame me if you loose fish with these methods. These methods have greatly improved survival rates of my fish but they're not 100% effective. It takes experience to properly diagnose diseases and even more experience to diagnose them early. ~



Common Disease Treatment




Compliments of MarinaP on Reef Central I have a new regamin for treatment of certain diseases. I have not tried this in the exact sequence mentioned but it does fall in line with what I believe to be best practices. I have modified her regamin slightly to fit my own preferences.

*Wear gloves and eye protection whenever handling formalin or bleach.
*Do not use activated carbon/charcoal while medicating.




For Amyloodinium or Ick:

*For all procedures: Use water that has a specific gravity (SG) of 1.009
**Do not mix medications.
***Be sure that temperature is the same in all holding vessels.

Day One
1. Slowly lower SG to 1.009
2. Perform a formalin dip per directions on the bottle.
3. Remove fish from formalin dip and place in an unused quarrantine tank that has been treated with cupramine per the recommendations on the bottle.
4. Set up a second quarrantine tank (QT) with the same SG and temperature of water as the first QT.

Day Two
1. Place fish in second quarrantine tank that has been treated with cupramine per the recommendations on the bottle.
2. Clean first quarrantine tank and all related components with a 10% bleach soln then set it back up. It is OK to soak the filter pad in bleach soln then rinse thoroughly before re-use if desired.

*Repeat process for days three through six.

Day Seven
1. If there are no further external symptoms, add fish to a quarrantine tank with a SG of 1.009 with no medications for at least 28 days.
2. Add a fresh filter cartridge with carbon to the filter.
3. Perform 20% water changes and or use Amquell as directed.
4. It is OK to use Prazi-Pro as directed after the first week as a prophylactic treatment or if internal paracites are suspected.
*Remember to discard activated carbon while in use.

For Brooklynella
- Follow the same regamin but substitute a formalin bath between formalin dips instead of using cupramine. ~

rydr119
04/11/2010, 03:47 PM
Ok so I can set up my QT at 1.009 and just acclimate the fish as if I had just bought them? Also how will I know if the ICH is responding? The life cycle is so long and I know just b/c you don't see any white spots doesn't mean you have killed it.

rydr119
04/11/2010, 08:17 PM
Also another question... Since I do not have any Live Rock or sand in my QT how can I be sure that the tank has cycled? There is obviously not going to be any bio-load until I add the fish. Should I just make sure that the temp and calcium ect are normal?
Thanks Gina
Also Someone should make a sitcky on ich treatment and such. Just a suggestion ;)

WDLV
04/12/2010, 05:10 AM
Ok so I can set up my QT at 1.009 and just acclimate the fish as if I had just bought them? Also how will I know if the ICH is responding? The life cycle is so long and I know just b/c you don't see any white spots doesn't mean you have killed it.
Yes. When I drop in a fish with ick, it disappears within 24 hrs. I keep them in hypo for at least a month. Ususly I'll keep them in quarrantine for 2-3 months sometimes longer.

Also another question... Since I do not have any Live Rock or sand in my QT how can I be sure that the tank has cycled? There is obviously not going to be any bio-load until I add the fish. Should I just make sure that the temp and calcium ect are normal?
Thanks Gina
Also Someone should make a sitcky on ich treatment and such. Just a suggestion ;)
Calcium and alk are important with corals. Not so much for fish. It's the ammonia and pH I would worry about with fish and in that order. If the ammonia is good the pH is probably good as well. I like to keep amquell on hand and often use it as a prophylactic treatment.

rydr119
04/12/2010, 11:14 AM
Ok so I am going to start catching my fish tonight then once I have caught them all I will begin the hypo. Wish me luck :worried:

WDLV
04/12/2010, 11:24 AM
Just please tell me that you do not intend to put them all in one tank.... I have about 14 tanks that I use for quarrantine. Putting more than one or two in the same tank is a recipe for disaster.

stunreefer
04/12/2010, 02:55 PM
- 1 bottle of Cupramine
- 1 bottle of Amquell
I like everything you posted Walt :)

Just wanted to add do not use the above quoted items in conjunction... amquel + cupramine = death ;)

rydr119
04/12/2010, 04:09 PM
Why would having them in the same tank be a problem? I was originally going to get 2 tanks 1 for the 3 larger fish and the other for the 5 smaller fish but I read that it wouldn't be a problem all in 1 tank. Please tell me if I am mistaken and I will get more tanks. The problem is I don't have room for many more tanks.

4adam12
04/12/2010, 08:35 PM
There is a sticky in the new to the hobby forum- Sticky: New-First Time on RC-Look Here for Answers. Look under section called solving common problems.

WDLV
04/13/2010, 04:28 AM
I like everything you posted Walt :)

Just wanted to add do not use the above quoted items in conjunction... amquel + cupramine = death ;)

This is news to me. Would you mind ellaborating?

Chris27
04/13/2010, 08:51 AM
This is news to me. Would you mind ellaborating?

Reports indicate that when you mix the two, the copper basically morphs into a very toxic form copper. This is why some folks still use copper sulfate, as there is not worry about Prime or Amquel turning the copper toxic to fish.

WDLV
04/13/2010, 09:11 AM
This is good to know. I only recently switched from Coppersafe to Cupramine and have not yet had occasion to mix the two.... I had mixed Amquel with Coppersafe with no ill effects, so I mistakenly assumed that cupramine would be no different. I'd hate to give anyone bad advise.

WDLV
04/13/2010, 09:19 AM
FYI, I had a pair of clowns in quarrantine for about a month and last week I realized that I had neglected to change their filter media like I know I should and they developed ick. I immediately put them in a hypo tank and within 48 hours they were ick free. This is not news to me as I already know it works but given the topic of discussion, I thought you all might benefit from the info.
I have probably only used copper three times in as many years to treat fish. Hypo works pretty much every time for me. I can't help but ponder if those who are unsuccessful with this method of treatment might be either lowering it too slowly or else might be not be bringing the SG down far enough; whether that be from fear of the process or inaccurate swing arm hydrometers giving them false readings. The only other thing I can think of that might not allow it to work would be mis-identification of the pathogen.