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Glove
04/12/2010, 11:26 PM
Need some help on what approach to take with getting my fish to live.

I wish there was sticky about how to determine a plan of attack, or is there?
Is there a overkill meathod for treating fish- going through all medications to eliminate all possible causes?

...About a month ago I brought a male madarin and a very large gorgonian home. I acclimated and tried to dispose of all the water from the transport bags.
I didnt want to QT because I didnt have a place to put the GORG (its VERY large) and the dragonet looked skinny and I didnt think htose fish were a risk of infecting my display that has been happy for about 5 years.

A couple days went by and I noticed this new guy (madarin) wasnt eating and had some dull looking patchy white coloration. In a couple more days I noticed both my sailfin and scopas tangs were showing spots on thier pectoral fins.

The two tangs, my two maroon clowns, my hawkfish, a checker wrasse, and a chromis were all acting very skittish and shy, but were all swimming / breathing healthy.

I found the new dragonet stuck to my overflow dead one moring... about 4 weeks ago.

A couple days went by as I tried to gather things for a hospital stay for all the fish in a 180 gallon mixed reef display.
I ended up tearing all my corals and rocks out to get the fish. I also dislocated my left knee stepping backwards off of a salt bucket- nuther story.

So I have had all my fish in a somewhat small tank. Its 50 gallons but its a odd shape tank- 36 side to side, 21 deep top to bottom and 18 front to back. Its small but the fish seem to be ok- considering.

Anyway... they camped out in here for two weeks to observe and get used to a new tank- changed 10 gals 2 times since fish were introduced. Have not been watching water chemistry other than salinity @ 49mS (equal to the dispaly tank).
I added 3 pretty large pieces of live rock to help w/ bioload a little when I had the display apart, so no real cycle SHOULD have happened.

Saturday- 4-11-10 I lost the checkered wrasse. The hawkfish was being a bully to him and the wrasse was looking wrose everday- maybe no sand, stress, attacks.. new home... RIP.

I think the hawkfish ate the two firefish the GF brought home.
**"If your gonna QT fish, add these two while your at it"- is what she said when I asked how we got two extra fish in there.**

Gotta love her, bless her heart, she not only puts up w/ my reefing habit but can acclimate fish and inverts too!

Last night- 4-12-10 the QT turned into hospital. I lowered salinity to 1.0097 after seeing the scopas tang covered in white dots and the salifin has some stuff clouding and spotting on the eye.
(I questioned amonia burns because I have been feeding heavily...but if so water changes and time will heal- but theresstill the white spot issue)

So.... yesterday about this time I had the salinity lowered to 1.0097. Today I am seeing the sailfin has great improvment of coloration. The scopas looks worse. He has lots more white dots on him.
Clowns and hawk are same- ok considering.
Both of the tangs also have some blackish looking areas on thier bodys, like black blotchy patches. Not all over, more like a large area on thier sides.
Also the sailfin looks like he is shedding- maybe loosing slime coat? I cant see spots on him, but the dark blackish areas worry me.

The Clowns are harder to see because they are hiding and dont really show spots. They look very deep red and generally healthy, more stressed and PO'ed about not having thier nem.

Its only been a little over 24 hours. I am sure I have killed the bacterial filter in the rock.
Probably need to do another water change in a day or two. Dunno even know if I have an amonia test kit.

Again, I am wondering how long do I need to observe before I decide to add medicine or copper.
I tried to read what I can about symptoms and signs....I didnt learn much about how to ID different problems.

I see two tangs with spots on fins and body breathing very rapidly. One has blotchy clouded eye. Seems to have a few places were it looks like slime it hanging off. twitching and scratching rocks. One tang (sailfin) was swimming face down in the stream of bubbles from the airstone- the scopas was surfing directly in front of the powerhead all day yesterday. Seems like they "itch".
The clowns seem to be ok, I need ot get a better look @ them tomorrow... they are not near as bad looking as the tangs.
The hawkfish and chromis that seem to be immune to the issues.The chromis seems a little twitchy, but they always are.
Only the tangs were twitching and scratching- that I have seen.

So... I will try to post some pictures if I can manage to get the right shots.
Im willing to treat for brook, amyloo, ich, what-ever, or all of em... I know copper is tough on fish and needs to be watched closely but I also need to know how long untill I need to watch for improvement and consider its maybe more than ich. the blacks spots on the tangs makes me wonder- it doesnt look like moody color changes.
Im not a fish Dr so its tough for me to determine what they have and what I need to use to treat it.
I think its ich.
I have never had an issue with sick fish aside from a feamle maroon clown I lost before I got this pair.

My fish are part of the family. I have had these guys for a long time and I really dont wanna loose anymore. I have or can get what-ever I need to. I just need some help figuring out the best way / order to treat.

Thanks
Glove

Glove
04/13/2010, 07:02 AM
Bump for the morning.

I am going to attempt some pictures.

Chris27
04/13/2010, 08:41 AM
First off, what exactly are you using for a filter? Ammonia quickly builds up in the absence of a decent bio-filter, and putting airstones and powerheads in will only make things worse as the added oxygen will raise the pH.

Glove
04/13/2010, 10:32 AM
For a filter I am using a hang on back type- marineland 330- bio-wheels removed but I may add them, should have done it from the start. It also has two carbon filter carts with the blue filter floss and additional "buckets" to add some other media.
I also have a maxijet 1200 and 600 in there with some pretty large rocks that came from the main display as I removed them to get to the fish, I just left these three out to use during QT.
There are some sponges that I need to pick off, I am sure there is a cycle happening or going to happen since lowering salinity.

I just got some pretty decent shots of the tangs... working on loading them now.

Glove
04/13/2010, 08:40 PM
Ok here are some pictures, sorry but its the best I can do w/ my skills and the camera I own.
These pictures dont show the issues very well (IMO). Zooming into get the spots is just at the point where the picture blurs.
The black blotches have sorta turned into more like spots. It was more of a circular area not all over the body about the size of a penny.

This is the QT/hospital tank. 36L x 21Tx 18W
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n186/Glove_03/Sick%20fish/DSCN2380.jpg

The sailfin...
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n186/Glove_03/Sick%20fish/DSCN2347.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n186/Glove_03/Sick%20fish/DSCN2371.jpg

The scopas
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n186/Glove_03/Sick%20fish/DSCN2364.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n186/Glove_03/Sick%20fish/DSCN2350.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n186/Glove_03/Sick%20fish/DSCN2374.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n186/Glove_03/Sick%20fish/DSCN2381.jpg

best buds
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n186/Glove_03/Sick%20fish/DSCN2368.jpg

hawkfish- has shown no signs of spots or illness, not even stressed.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n186/Glove_03/Sick%20fish/DSCN2372.jpg

I couldnt get to the clowns, they would move to the other side of a rock when I tried to get pics. I think I see some spotting on thier fins, but its hard to tell, they are angry and wont look at me or allow me to look at them. They seem to be doing thier usual clowny bunce/swim and the female was tring to bite me when I was cleaning the bottom of the tank the other day. They seem normal but stressed.

Glove
04/13/2010, 08:56 PM
PH has been stable @ 7.75 and salinity is 1.0095.

I would say they fish look a LITTLE better. Still breathing heavy. Still white pimple spots on the scopas. As I said, the black areas have expanded to smaller blotchy spots- more-so with the sailfin.
I have been feeding a combo of fomula one and two (frozen cubes), mysis shrimp (frozen cubes), krill (frozen cubes), flake food and some different colors of nori. It all gets a garlic drop to soak in before feeding. They were real eager at first then appitites started to slow down. The tangs were acting like they couldnt see the food- maybe due to cloudy eyes?...they still got some food down though.
I am hoping to see some improvements tomorrow.

Glove
04/13/2010, 09:36 PM
here are all the pictures I took trying to get "the one". Maybe there are some better shots for trained eyes..

http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n186/Glove_03/Sick%20fish/

Chris27
04/14/2010, 11:03 AM
Maintain your sg at 1.009, keep them fed well, and cross your fingers...all should be well in a couple of weeks.

WI reefer55
04/14/2010, 12:51 PM
looks great man

Best of luck

Glove
11/21/2010, 07:26 PM
Well, I am still in hypo. Comming up, but not @ NSW levels yet.

I lost all fish but the clowns, the sailfin, and the chromis.

The male clown has been getting white things on his face (one side) and the sailfin has developed what I believe to be hole in head.

So now I ram eady to use medication. I have the following
API "general cure"
PraziPro
Cupramine
Mardel CopperSafe
Tremazoll
and protomarin coral

I am thinking to start with the Prazipro first then onto the cupramine after salinity is back to norm.
Will these two cover all problems I could be having?
*I have been watching the tang rubbing and hanging out in front of the powerhead more and more so I am thinking the ich survived the hypo but I dont see spots.

Good thing is the tank has been fallow for a long long time. I am ready to see the fish back in there but not untill I am positive they have no health issues.