mouth full of Bangii

[DBarsotti]

My pair of tank bred Bangii spawned for the first time yesterday, the male looks like a chipmunk swimming around the tank.

My question is..
If i don't take the male out of the tank what will happen to the offspring once they no longer have the shelter of the males mouth? Will they be eaten by their parents at some point?? other tank mates? What if i was to put a spiny urchin in the tank, would this help the offsrping survive?


Thanks

[nauticac4]

The male probably wont hold them to term the first couple times through. One of my pairs has swallowed a few clutches of eggs after about the 10 day mark due to hunger. IF the do hatch and if the other fish don't get to them first, hunger will. Some breeders will take the male out at the 21-24 (after the eggs have hatched before the babies are released) day mark at lights out and place him in a breeder net. Typically netting him and removing him from the water will induce him to spit the contents of his mouth out.

Keeping enough food in the water column to feed the little ones would be the biggest challange in a display tank. If the other fish didn't eat the food in the water column it would still foul the water pretty quickly. Plus predation would be a factor depending on tank mates would be a factor even if they had an urchin or a fake urchin to hide in.

Setup a 10 with a sponge filter and start hatching some enriched bbs. Move the babies over and keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrates and youll have bangaiis in no time at all.

[nauticac4]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1395778

good thread to start reading. Has some great pictures

[DBarsotti]

thanks, I read quite a bit on raising them, thats why i got the pair in the first place. I pretty much have everything i need to start its just a matter of effort at this point, maybe i'll see if he decides to hold on the eggs and go from there.

[nauticac4]

Good luck make sure you post pictures and log your progress
Every little bit helps everyone else.

[DBarsotti]

will do. I'll just keep updating this here thread

[180+55reef]

I have had a hard time getting them to eat, even when the babies were alone in a 55 g refuge

[DBarsotti]

Yeah, I feel there's going to be a lot of effort involved in raising them(if the male actually holds on to the eggs) but I really don't wanna see the poor little guys become a snack.

[nauticac4]

just make sure there is alot of BBS in the water and you should be good. I read a post were someone had them weaned to cyclopeze in a week.

[DBarsotti]

Day 10. Dad's still holding on to the eggs.

[Trademark]

I would prob put a fake urchin in there about day 20 just incase he spits them out soon after and your not around , you might have some left if they find the fake urchin

[DBarsotti]

Yeah i was thinking around day 18 i'd start preparing just incase he decides to spit them early.

[blennydude]

B, here are pics of the set up I use. Everyone does it a little different but this has been very successful for me, for I only had one fry die from this batch and he was malformed. You have to remove them from the main tank if you want any chance for them to survive. I take mine out on day 21 or 22 when I can see thier eyes peeking out of dad's mouth.
I set up my brineshrimp hatcheries right in the tank to keep the water temp right. You might not need to, I did b/c it was winter. I put a tank divider in there to keep the fry on one side and I can move weaker ones over if needed. Also you have to direct feed the babies w/ a turkey baster for something similar. I suck out a few squirts into a small glass cup and in a few minutes they will group, then I suck them up again and squirt them toward the babies and the feeding frenzy begins. I feed them every 4 hrs or more when they are young. I also supplement w/ selcon & phyto. I have never got them to take cyclopeez but when they get to about 3 or 4 wks I melt a brine shrimp cube into a cup and pick out the smallest ones and feed them again w/ the baster.
Make sure when you do water changes (about every 4 days) your new water matches the existing temp & salinity exact.
Last if your dad dosen't hold, feed him more to beef him up for the fasting period.
Hope this helps, good luck!

[DBarsotti]

B, here are pics of the set up I use. Everyone does it a little different but this has been very successful for me, for I only had one fry die from this batch and he was malformed. You have to remove them from the main tank if you want any chance for them to survive. I take mine out on day 21 or 22 when I can see thier eyes peeking out of dad's mouth.
I set up my brineshrimp hatcheries right in the tank to keep the water temp right. You might not need to, I did b/c it was winter. I put a tank divider in there to keep the fry on one side and I can move weaker ones over if needed. Also you have to direct feed the babies w/ a turkey baster for something similar. I suck out a few squirts into a small glass cup and in a few minutes they will group, then I suck them up again and squirt them toward the babies and the feeding frenzy begins. I feed them every 4 hrs or more when they are young. I also supplement w/ selcon & phyto. I have never got them to take cyclopeez but when they get to about 3 or 4 wks I melt a brine shrimp cube into a cup and pick out the smallest ones and feed them again w/ the baster.
Make sure when you do water changes (about every 4 days) your new water matches the existing temp & salinity exact.
Last if your dad dosen't hold, feed him more to beef him up for the fasting period.
Hope this helps, good luck!



Thanks for the info! very helpful. I'll post some pictures once i start setting up.

[DBarsotti]

OK. So my very dedicated male held onto the eggs and stuck it out for the entire term.
Today we welcomed 13 hungry babies to their new home.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/dbarsotti/Macros/DSC_0121.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/dbarsotti/Macros/DSC_0122-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/dbarsotti/Macros/DSC_0122.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/dbarsotti/Macros/DSC_0123.jpg

Tomorrow i'll take some picture of their "nursery".
Every single one of them immediately started eating newly hatched baby brine shrimp, they eat like little pigs.
I hope I have success with them!

[dirtStar]

Congrats!

Sounds like you are off to a good start

Wish you well:)

[shandy_say]

Wow! Congrats! I myself have been having problems with my male holding on to the clutch of eggs to full term. It has happened about 4x already and still no success. You're very lucky that your male holds to full term. Hope you keep this thread updated. :)

I just have some questions, was your banggai pair in a tank with other fishes? If so, did you feed the other fishes while he was holding?

[DBarsotti]

Congrats!

Sounds like you are off to a good start

Wish you well:)

Thanks

Wow! Congrats! I myself have been having problems with my male holding on to the clutch of eggs to full term. It has happened about 4x already and still no success. You're very lucky that your male holds to full term. Hope you keep this thread updated. :)

I just have some questions, was your banggai pair in a tank with other fishes? If so, did you feed the other fishes while he was holding?

Thanks, Yeah I was very surprised that the male held on, especially since this was the first time they spawned. The male and the female are both kept in my frag tank along with a small yellow tang, during the term I fed the tank as I normally would. The male would always come out during the feedings and looked extremely frustraded that he couldn't partake in the meal. ha

I'll post more pictures tonight and continue updating the thread as they grow.

[nauticac4]

Looking good. I have a male that is constantly holding eggs but always manages to swallow them at the 10 or so day mark. Good luck and keep us updated.

[shandy_say]

Thanks



Thanks, Yeah I was very surprised that the male held on, especially since this was the first time they spawned. The male and the female are both kept in my frag tank along with a small yellow tang, during the term I fed the tank as I normally would. The male would always come out during the feedings and looked extremely frustraded that he couldn't partake in the meal. ha

I'll post more pictures tonight and continue updating the thread as they grow.

Nice! I hope mine holds on to the eggs also! I really do want to breed them and i have read so much info on breeding them but still no definitive answer as to how to get them to hold on to the eggs. Its been 5 days already since my male started to hold eggs. So far he is still holding on to them. Hope he hold full term this time around.

Congrats again and looking forward to seeing more pics of your baby bangers! :)

[DBarsotti]

Maybe try and really fatten him up before he starts to hold the eggs? I mostly feed my fish pretty heavily. Maybe he just chooses eating over his parental duties ha

[otolith]

That's pretty awesome!

[Misled]

Congrats!!!!

[shandy_say]

Hes really fat and i feed him everyday before he carries. He always has a big bulging stomach everytime i feed him. Maybe he's just not into being a dad yet! :)

[DBarsotti]

More shots from today.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/dbarsotti/Macros/DSC_0145.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/dbarsotti/Macros/DSC_0146.jpg

The proud parents
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/dbarsotti/Macros/DSC_0154.jpg

[shandy_say]

Cool! :) Im really envious!

[DBarsotti]

That's pretty awesome!

Congrats!!!!

Thanks! I am so stoked.

Cool! :) Im really envious!


Thanks, Hopefully your pair will figure it out soon:thumbsup:

[Sugar Magnolia]

How adorable!! Congrats!

[DBarsotti]

How adorable!! Congrats!

Thanks!






So these little guys grow pretty dang fast.. Already they aren't transparent and are their color is much more vibrant. Instead of hiding in the corner all day they now swim around half way up the tank. They are constantly on the hunt for food within the tiny school and sometimes venture out a few inches to grab a tasty snack, instead of just waiting for baby brine shrimp to come within reach.

heres some more pictures!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/dbarsotti/Macros/DSC_0128.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/dbarsotti/Macros/DSC_0129.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/dbarsotti/Macros/DSC_0130-1.jpg

[shandy_say]

Wow! Looking good bro! Have they started accepting frozen food or cyclopeeze yet?

[DBarsotti]

Wow! Looking good bro! Have they started accepting frozen food or cyclopeeze yet?

Unfortunately they haven't. Today was the first time i tried and they'd swim over to eat it, realize it wasn't BBS and keeping hunting. I already went through a whole batch of BBS so tonight i am hatching a new one.. they eat A LOT. I'll dump some brine shrimp in there and witin an hour you can't find any in the tank.. Its rad.

[shandy_say]

Nice! Two thumbs up for you! Im sure in time they will learn to eat the cyclopeeze.

My male now is still holding. Already 7 days and this is the longest time ive seen him hold on to his clutch. Still hoping i can reach that stage you're in now! :)

[t11t5]

Thats sweet.

[DBarsotti]

Nice! Two thumbs up for you! Im sure in time they will learn to eat the cyclopeeze.

My male now is still holding. Already 7 days and this is the longest time ive seen him hold on to his clutch. Still hoping i can reach that stage you're in now! :)

Thats awesome, Definitely post some pictures if he ends up going through with it. Do you know how many babies they are supposed to have? or what the average is?

Thats sweet.


Thanks

[shandy_say]

The most ive read was about 29 fry. Average is between 20-25 fry per batch.

My male banggai is still holding but definitely less than what he had been holding during the first few days. His mouth is a lot smaller now than what it was a few days ago. He must have either aborted or swallowed some of it. We'll see in a couple of days if he starts eating again. If he does, well i guess i just don't have any luck.

[DBarsotti]

hmm. 20-25 would of been awesome. 13 will do for now tho

My males mouth seemed really small in he last few days, i thought he swallowed most of them, i was really surprised 13 even came out.


Does your female pick on the male while hes holding?? or do any other tank mates bully him around?

[shandy_say]

Nope. All my fish ignore each other unless its feeding time which they all go to one side of my tank where they know i usually drop the DIY fish food. The female i noticed actually guards the male now. Doesn't really bother him. I just have 6 fish in my 70gal DT most of which are small fish. I just have 2 banggai, 2 true percs, 1 Royal Gramma, and 1 PT in my tank.

13 is a great number of fry. Id be happy if I can get 1 fry. hehe! Did you notice your male holding more eggs during the 1st few days of him carrying than when it was nearing his release date?

[DBarsotti]

Yeah i'd say his mouth was much more full originally, as it neared 18-20 days i almost thought he ate most of them till i netted him and out came 13 little beauties.


I would be really interested in knowing what is causing your fish to not hold them.

[shandy_say]

So do i bro...

Here is a pic of him holding....
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/shandy_say/IMG_6040.jpg

As you can see he ain't thin.

[DBarsotti]

ha yeah he's big, he looks a lot older than mine. you got some sweet corals too man

[shandy_say]

Hes been with me about 5 months already. When I got him he was way skinny and small. Thanks bro!

[Kmiec123]

I usually take some scissors and cut slivers off frozen PE Mysid and mix with some Rod's Food, The baby's really seem to like it and it's good to get some variety in their diet. ;)
Hope this helps and nice job with the babies....Aren't they sooooo cute!!!

[shandy_say]

Any updates? how are they doing now?

[DBarsotti]

They are doing great! I think they have tripled in size, They have become really strong swimmers and i have increased the flow in the tank quite a bit.. I have been doing small water changes on the tank every 2 days but its just not enough to keep up with the amount of waste they are producing due to their extremely huge appetite. so tonight i'm going to try a bigger one and see how it goes.
(my water changes are just water out of my SPS tank since its got really stable and clean water)

I'll try to get some pictures tonight so you can see how big they've gotten already. Its incredible.

My female is already dancing for the male again. How often do they spawn?

[DBarsotti]

Also, Is your male still holding onto the clutch???

[shandy_say]

Nice! Very happy for you! They spawn atleast once a month. So better to condition the male before mating again. Atleast thats what ive read. hehe!

Mine is still holding so far. He hasn't been eating yet so its a good sign that he is still holding on to some of the fry/eggs. Not really sure if they have hatched already as my male hasn't been opening his mouth lately. But still i can see his jaw is a little expanded. Keeping my fingers crossed! :)

[Zylski]

The most ive read was about 29 fry. Average is between 20-25 fry per batch.

My male banggai is still holding but definitely less than what he had been holding during the first few days. His mouth is a lot smaller now than what it was a few days ago. He must have either aborted or swallowed some of it. We'll see in a couple of days if he starts eating again. If he does, well i guess i just don't have any luck.

Our local breeder who I know fairly well has gotten 55 and 58 fry in 1 batch before. His average he gets is about 30 - 35.

[tiababygirl2]

congrats..
i've been breeding bangai for over a year now. my 2 male reward me with nice size batches ,my last batch was 51 all survived,and i now have 42 doing great..i post picture ,but please forgive me for not cleaning the glass ,you see they share the same tank with my seahorses.
good luck! and congrats again !

[shandy_say]

Wow! Thats a lot! It would be great if we can get that much fry. But i guess thats still all based on how well your male does his daddy duties. :)

As of today my male is still holding and hasn't been eating and i think he's still holding. 1st time he has held this long. Going on 9 days already!

At how many days do you think i should transfer my male to another tank?

[DBarsotti]

congrats..
i've been breeding bangai for over a year now. my 2 male reward me with nice size batches ,my last batch was 51 all survived,and i now have 42 doing great..i post picture ,but please forgive me for not cleaning the glass ,you see they share the same tank with my seahorses.
good luck! and congrats again !

WOW thats a lot of bangii!

Wow! Thats a lot! It would be great if we can get that much fry. But i guess thats still all based on how well your male does his daddy duties. :)

As of today my male is still holding and hasn't been eating and i think he's still holding. 1st time he has held this long. Going on 9 days already!

At how many days do you think i should transfer my male to another tank?

I waited till i could see them inside his mouth then the day after i just netted him and quickly put him in a bowl.. he spit them all out and then i returned him to the tank and took the babies to their new home..


The tank, regardless of water changes seems to be getting really dirty. I was thinking about adding some snails. Anyone have any objection to this?

[shandy_say]

cool! have to prepare my fry tank again. I actually shut it off again when my male lost his previous clutch. Now have to restart it again. heheh!

As for the snails im sure it will be ok.

[DBarsotti]

....My male is holding again.. I literally think I missed the transfer of the eggs by a few seconds.. I would assume since he didn't have time to regroup after the last spawning he will give up on the eggs at some point.. But if he doesn't I'm really not ready for a another batch of offspring yet.. Especially since his mouth is at least twice as big as it was the first time..

[shandy_say]

Nice! Congrats again!

My male banggai on the other hand is Eating again! :( He ate ALL his eggs AGAIN for the Nth time! Stupid male banggai! Kinda lost hope that I will ever be able to breed them!

[edandsandy]

Congrats! Mine too are starting to breed! keep up the great work and keep us posted!

[DBarsotti]

Nice! Congrats again!

My male banggai on the other hand is Eating again! :( He ate ALL his eggs AGAIN for the Nth time! Stupid male banggai! Kinda lost hope that I will ever be able to breed them!

I'm sorry, that really sucks.

Congrats! Mine too are starting to breed! keep up the great work and keep us posted!

Thanks! its pretty exciting when it happens

[shandy_say]

Yeah it sucks! Now im thinking of building a DIY egg tumbler seeing that my male banggai is a poor father! Might have to take that route instead of just waiting for him to eat his clutch the next time around. Do you have any ideas on how to make one?

[nauticac4]

Just a smalll brine type hatchery will work for tumbling eggs. The coolest one I have seen is a glass funnel with an airline in the bottom with enough air to keep the eggs moving. It was set in a pot to keep it from falling. I am going to attempt to strip the eggs from my bangaii next time he is holding because he has swallowed eggs a few times now and its frustrating.

[Haddonisreef]

I also have a pair starting to(male) hold eggs and will be fallowing this thread for some great info!!!!!!

[DBarsotti]

Just a smalll brine type hatchery will work for tumbling eggs. The coolest one I have seen is a glass funnel with an airline in the bottom with enough air to keep the eggs moving. It was set in a pot to keep it from falling. I am going to attempt to strip the eggs from my bangaii next time he is holding because he has swallowed eggs a few times now and its frustrating.

I actually saw a video of a clutch in an brine shrimp hatchery, I wasn't sure if they were just showing the eggs off or they were actually trying to hatch them.

Maybe i should try this rather than make my male starve for another month..



I also have a pair starting to(male) hold eggs and will be fallowing this thread for some great info!!!!!!

Thats awesome. Thanks, I'll rtry and keep it updated as much as possible





As for my infants, they are growing very well, They haven't taken any food other than BBS yet, I tried to starve them all day yesterday in hope they would eat whatever i offered them but it didnt work..
Hopefully they will start eating something else soon. I'm tired of growing brine shrimp. ha

I ended up adding 5 turbo snails to the tank and they have been doing a great job cleaning up the tank.

Other than that i have been seriously considering setting up my 29g biocube again and using it as a grow out tank for these guys. I have a hang on refugium that you can limit the flow through, i think this would be perfect for newly hatched spawn and then use the main part of the tank for the older fish to grow a little before trying to get rid of them. Using this tank i'd also be able to put a skimmer on the tank which i think would help quite a bit.

[tiababygirl2]

your doing great..and as far as brine shrimp hatching ,it never ends...lol

[DBarsotti]

your doing great..and as far as brine shrimp hatching ,it never ends...lol

Thanks. Ha, I was kinda afraid of that..

[DBarsotti]

I'm kind of torn on wether or not to set up another tank to raise more of these little suckers, there isn't much demand for these fish around here, even for free, selling via the net is out of the question due to expenses and i can't really house 30+ fish.... Even tho I would love to have a gigantic school of bangii cruzing around my tank.. It just isn't possible. ha

[DBarsotti]

So tonight i am going to attempt to make the male release the clutch and i'm going to try and hatch the eggs in a bottle. I cut 2 small slits in one of my brine shrimp hatching bottles (so fresh water can circulate through the bottle) and i'm going to set it up inside the nursery tank along with the other infants.. Hopefully this works. I'll post some pictures once i have it all set up.

[shandy_say]

wow! Pic bro! I would like to see how you get the male to spit out the eggs and what you're tumbler design is! :D Planning on doing the same thing the next time my male holds a new clutch!

[DBarsotti]

OK.. So I spent the last hour re-plumbing my nursery tank and adding an egg tumbling bottle.. After all this was complete I then netted the male, expecting he would just release the clutch and i could add it to the tumbling bottle.. Well apparently my male is the most loyal father on earth.. He would not let that clutch go if his life depended on it.. I even went to the extent of putting him in a bowl of water and nudging him with my finger, he could of cared less. So looks like I am going to have to wait the full term and just collect the infants once they are hatched..

This weekend, if I can round up all the parts I will be setting up a new system for all these little guys. I'll post pictures as I go.

freakin stubborn fish.

[shandy_say]

Thats a good thing bro! Still envious of your male! Mine still sucks as a father!

[DBarsotti]

ha yeah but i feel bad for the little guy, he hasn't had much to eat for going on 2 months. I wanted to take the eggs and then separate him from the female so he can have some time to rest.

[shandy_say]

I see. Well maybe you can put him in an acclimation box next time so he has time to fatten up before the next dance.

[SNAKEMANVET]

Been following along,I just bought a young bangaii hopeing it was a male.My female released the eggs and the young one quickly grabbed them.He cannot hold all them because he is so small.Just wondering if anyone else has experinced this.He was able to hold only a few.

[DBarsotti]

Been following along,I just bought a young bangaii hopeing it was a male.My female released the eggs and the young one quickly grabbed them.He cannot hold all them because he is so small.Just wondering if anyone else has experinced this.He was able to hold only a few.
I'm not sure about a young male holding a clutch. That'll be awesome if he goes through with holding the clutch.






Ok so i have been really busy and setting up the new tank is really lagging.. so far i have insulted a float valve on the bio cube for ATO, i should have ti filled up by the end of the week.
here are some pictures of the float valve and of the fish

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/dbarsotti/Macros/DSC_0064.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/dbarsotti/Macros/DSC_0063.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/dbarsotti/Macros/DSC_0062.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/dbarsotti/Macros/DSC_0061.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/dbarsotti/Macros/DSC_0059.jpg

[DBarsotti]

Tonight in an attempt to give the infants more room and cleaner water until their new tank is set up (their tank is getting dirty extremely quick now due to their healthy appetites) I added 2 infants to my frag tank that also houses my adult male and female bangii to see how everyone would get along.. The infants almost immediately tried to school with the adult female.. She was not happy about this to say the least, she began nipping at them and trying to chase them as far from her and the make as possible..

I was worried that in the night she would kill them or they would die of stress so i
removed them and put them back in the nursery tank.

As of now I have 11..
1 died of unkown causes, possibly when i was changing the water he got smashed.
and second fatality, i learned the hard way that these little guys are easily stressed out if netted or exposed to new strong current. I am amazed that any young survive in the wild.

[shandy_say]

So cool! Your banggais are growing so fast!

[savageAJC]

geez! great job! keep it up!

[somdinwong]

do not try and strip if your male is holding. a local breeder down here did that and his male never held to term again

[DBarsotti]

So cool! Your banggais are growing so fast! I know its crazy how fast they are growing.

geez! great job! keep it up!

Thanks!

do not try and strip if your male is holding. a local breeder down here did that and his male never held to term again

Yeah i couldn't of got them out if i held him up by his fins, I am just letting him do his thing. After these eggs hatch i am going to sperate him from the female to give him a break which will also give me time to catch up with my new nursery set up:hammer:

[Demonic]

I'm kind of torn on wether or not to set up another tank to raise more of these little suckers, there isn't much demand for these fish around here, even for free, selling via the net is out of the question due to expenses and i can't really house 30+ fish.... Even tho I would love to have a gigantic school of bangii cruzing around my tank.. It just isn't possible. ha

I know the demand isnt that high, but I would love to have a school of these to go in the new tank. Let me know if you raise some and part with them. Would be worth the shipping if I bought around 10 or so I think.

[DBarsotti]

ugh.. major fail.. So Today i stripped the fry from the males mouth, unfortunately they are VERY premature, I don't think they are going to survive. Has anyone had positive results with pre mature fry? They are swimming around but you can see that they aren't fully developed and i'm fairly sure they are unable to eat at this point..

I counted about 25+ this time. I really hope they survive.

My nursery setup is almost complete. It is cycling right now and the only thing i have to finish is the ATO which should be done tonight..

If the fry survive the night i'll post pictures tomorrow along with pictures of the nursery setup.

[Demonic]

25....thats a nice load there. Hope they make it.

[DBarsotti]

25....thats a nice load there. Hope they make it.
Thanks, yeah it was way more than i expected.

As of this morning, all of them are looking fine and really developed quite a bit over night. I'll get some pictures this afternoon.

[edandsandy]

How's it going?

[DBarsotti]

aw, i had to give up on the breeding, I needed a tank upgrade really bad so i upgraded my 40g to a 120g, i also have a few other projects in the works so once everything is done i'll most likely start raising the spawn again.When i do i'll be sure to post some pictures.