Sohal Tang in a 180? Yea or nay?

[mcoomer]

I've just purchased a 180G that is 72 X 24 X 24. I will be upgrading from a 125 that I've had setup since 1998 and will be moving everything into the new tank. I've wanted two fish from day one. Powder Blue Tang and a Sohal Tang. I've kept a couple Powder Blues in my tank but I never bought a Sohal because I knew they needed more space. Is this new tank big enough that I can indulge myself. Frankly, I still think it's marginal but you tell me. I promise that if the consensus is no I won't get one. Oddly enough, I've got no restraint when it comes to buying things but I've never put anything in my tank that I thought didn't belong.

Anyway, let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Mike

[sikk50]

The sticky says that 180 is the minimum so I would guess at that point it would depend heavily on how much open space you have

[snorvich]

Actually, it will depend on whether you want you sohal to kill your other fish. This is a very mean, aggressive fish.

[Gary Majchrzak]

beautiful fish but a Sohal will outgrow a 180 (if taken care of properly).

Powder Blue and Sohal both have serious attitudes and I wouldn't recommend placing these two together in a 180!

[JHemdal]

Like sikk50 said, it depends on how much swimming space the tank has.

Personally, I think Red Sea fish are just plain cranky. So many times I've seen displaced aggression in them - a Pseudochromis chases a chromis, that motion gets an Asfur agitated, who takes a swipe at a semilarvartus, and then a sohal starts tearing around whacking everyone. After a bit, things settle back down - until the next time(grin). Once the fish are established, you rarely see any real damage from this, but just try and add a new fish to the mix!

Jay

[snorvich]

Once the fish are established, you rarely see any real damage from this, but just try and add a new fish to the mix!

Jay

Sorry, but in the case of a Sohal tang, I am forced to disagree. I have seen several become progressively more aggressive over time in tanks much larger than a 180 (although I think gallonage is not the issue but tank length). As time progressed they killed their neighbors and these were not newly introduced fish.

[snorvich]

Double post. Sorry

[Stanley-Reefer]

exceptions but they still fight. My sohal is good for ripping one of the pyramids once a month but they heal up. Oddly enough my zebrasomas don't take anything from the sohal.

My sohal was about 3" last year when I got it....check him out now. He's WIDE too and eats everything and is a good grazer for such a big fish. He eats more undesireable alge than the spotted rabbit!

http://i49.*******.com/xu3vd.jpg

[Gary Majchrzak]

IME Sohal aggression (towards established tankmates) doesn't decrease over time.

Nice aquarium, Stanley. What size?

My Powder Blue destroyed a pair of Pyramids.

[Stanley-Reefer]

Thanks. Tank is a 175 bow

Only fish added after the sohal has been a leopard wrasse and a coral beauty. He chases the pbt from time to time and the pbt chases back, but they are pretty calm except at feeding time when I'm actually aware of the sohal as he chases all comers away to get his bite.

There are 3 pyramids in there....they chase each other at dusk more than anything. They invert themselves and stick out their top fins when the sohal picks on them.

You can see the size of the sohal vs the naso taken 6/09 compared to the above pic showing the sohal now much bigger than the naso...
http://i42.*******.com/2qm3k20.jpg

[Gary Majchrzak]

looks good. Sohal grow quickly.
I managed to convince a local fellow to remove his Naso from his 180 but he kept the Sohal which (eventually) met an unfortunate fate.
All Naso (and Sohal) eventually grow too large for a 180 IMO.

[Jerry W]

I'm hoping Michael (64 Ivy) will weigh in on this. His huge Sohal looked cramped in his 500!

[Gary Majchrzak]

our reef club placed a Sohal in our city zoo's 560 gallon reef aquarium display and it uses EVERY inch of the 10ft long tank ;)

[Sardaukar]

Going with no on this one as well. When they hit that 8-10" mark they start to change and most seem to end up somewhere between aggressive trouble maker who causes frequent problems and absolute terror who kills fish at random.

[Kahuna Tuna]

A sohal is just too much fish for a tank that size IMO, for all the reasons listed above.

[JHemdal]

Steve,

Don't be sorry, it isn't me that disagrees with you, it's my 12 year old sohal (grin) in a tank with 20+ other fish. It has NEVER done any real damage to its original tankmates. I see the displaced aggression all the time when something sets them off, but I haven't seen a single spine wound on any fish, except new additions....and this is consistent with all of the sohals I've worked with before, thus my statement that ESTABLSISHED fish, Sohal aggression is less of an issue. Perhaps it isn't so much the Sohal is less aggressive, but that the long-term tankmates have learned avoidance tecniques...

Jay

[Gary Majchrzak]

how big is your Sohal's aquarium, Jay?

[JHemdal]

It was in a 100, then a 300 gallon, but now is in a 700. Tankmates include 4 fridmani, 6 squamipinnis anthias, a dozen green chromis, clown and blueline triggers, semifasciatus, paucofasciatus butterflies, 6 heniochus, an asfur, maculosus, a big coris aygula and a pre-CITES humphead wrasse. Seems like I'm forgetting a few though.....so over 37 fish. The two angels and butterflies have been in with it since my original trans-ship from Jeddah back in 1998 or so.

Jay

[Gary Majchrzak]

sounds nice :)

[Wolverine]

My experience (with multiple sohals) has been more along the lines of Steve's. There are some that do fine, but most that I've dealt with have gotten worse as times gone on unless they're in huge tanks (much bigger than 180g).

[snorvich]

My experience (with multiple sohals) has been more along the lines of Steve's. There are some that do fine, but most that I've dealt with have gotten worse as times gone on unless they're in huge tanks (much bigger than 180g).

I have had two, each in a 350 g tank. Both became progressively more aggressive, one would kill almost any fish, even existing tank mates. Certainly adding ANY additional fish was out of the question. The only one I know that is doing well is in a 1000 g tank (ironically with a clown tang), but it has not been long enough to say what the prognosis is.

[JHemdal]

Steve,

Well, like I said, there is at least ONE other one doing very well in a large group of mixed fish for 12 years (grin).

It is probably an issue of stocking density, as I said, this one is in a tank with a lot of other fish. There IS that displaced aggression, but it isn't focused on any one fish....same with the other Sohals I've worked with (probably 6 or 10 over the years). What I have NOT done is put a Sohal in a tank with just three or four similar sized fish - perhaps that is what is causing this difference in aggression levels being seen?

I just experienced a classic case of stocking density mitigating tankmate agression: a person had 40+ large fish in a 300 gallon FW tank, including 20 Distichodus of 3 species. I have never in my life seen a single tank (not connected to a larger water system) as crowded as that tank was. He was doing 3 - 50% water changes a week. The fish all looked great though. I took 14 of the Distichodus and put them in a 500 gallon tank. With roughly twice as much room, the fish all began fighting and shredding their fins. After sticking tons of branches and plants in the tank, the fighting subsided, (without any losses) but it was dicey for a week or so - all due to giving the fish fewer targets for their aggression!


Jay

[rholguin]

Jhemdal-is there anyway we can see pics of your tank?

[mcoomer]

Well, the poll is running almost 50/50 but it sounds like anecdotal evidence is against putting one in a 180. I'm disappointed because they're such striking fish but I made myself promise a long time ago that I wouldn't put something in my tank if it wouldn't be happy there.

Thanks all,
Mike

[Gary Majchrzak]

I believe you're reaching the correct verdict, Mike.

It's an open poll so we can see which way people voted. Some of the poll results struck me as being very odd seeing as how those people commented in their post in the thread.

For the life of me I can't fathom placing the Sohals I know of/deal with (in 560 gallon and 300 gallon aquariums) in a 180!

We need to get Attila's owner in here. (Attila is the Sohal seen at the top left corner of the Reef Central banner.) Stay tuned.

[64Ivy]

I maintained a Sohal Tang for nearly 10 years in a 500g. I acquired it as a 4" juvie and when it finally passed, it was just a hair over 14" long. For a Sohal, Attilla (his name), was relatively docile; only during feeding times did he tend to show his ornery side. He had to eat first, you see, then second, then third. But other than that, he was cool. He was gorgeous too and gave my family many hours of viewing pleasure. But you know what we gave him in return? An absolutely miserable life. Especially the last half of it. You see, a 500g 96x36x36" tank is far too small for a Sohal, imo. It was certainly too small for Attilla, who gradually went from swimming calmly with his tankmates to pacing somewhat restlessly to sometimes even dashing about in seeming fits of panic. He had literally outgrown all of his hiding places and had nowhere to go, nowhere to feel safe. He looked kind of silly in there too, kind of like a Mastiff in a dog run full of Beagles. For the final couple years of his life, I was semi-actively looking for a place to send him but who's gonna take a fish that's over a foot long, weighs a couple pounds, and packs a scalpel 24/7.

I'm begging you not to confine this proud and beautiful fish to a 180. Not even if he was the only fish in it. It will outgrow the tank in just a few years then possibly become aggressive, possibly become sick, and perhaps even succumb. Of course, it's pain will then be over. But speaking as someone who lived with this mistake for a decade, if you're a true fan of this fish, yours will last a heck of a lot longer.

[snorvich]

Well stated 64Ivy!

[bluface]

Give me a tissue...

[TampaReefer79]

Give me a tissue...

I don't understand... ?

I thought it was well said and I completely agree!

[wickedfish]

exceptions but they still fight. My sohal is good for ripping one of the pyramids once a month but they heal up. Oddly enough my zebrasomas don't take anything from the sohal.

My sohal was about 3" last year when I got it....check him out now. He's WIDE too and eats everything and is a good grazer for such a big fish. He eats more undesireable alge than the spotted rabbit!

http://i49.*******.com/xu3vd.jpg

Beautiful tank and excellent pick of Livestock. What lights are you running and how long has it been up. Any other problems with sohal or any other of your livestock.

[Stanley-Reefer]

Thanks...3 250w de phoenix in hamilton reefstars on their m80 ballasts with 4 65w coarlife actinics. Nah, it's sporadic, they all know he's the king:rollface:

Tank will be 2 years old in October.