First 120 gallon fish only aquarium with sump/refugium

[sneakerpimp]

This is my first SW aquarium and I'm just waiting for quotes on the set up at the moment.

I think I'm going to go with a 120 gallon tank with a sump(not sure what size i should go with). I want to use the sump as a refugium to grow Copepods and Amphipods. The refugium in this video is what I think I want to shoot for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXWK74RUuew&feature=related

For the display tank I'm wondering what easy thing I can put in it besides live rock? Any marine plants that you would recommend from this list:

http://www.bluezooaquatics.com/productlist.asp?did=3&cid=284

Also, what are the best plants to put in the refugium?

As far as fish go, this is my list of fish i want:

Flame Angelfish
Marine Beta
Lawnmower Blenny
Leopard Blenny
Banggai Cardinalfish- 4 or 5
Black & White Ocellaris Clownfish - a pair
Ocellaris Clownfish - a pair
Black Spot Red Damsel
Green Chromis - school
Firefish - a pair
Green Mandarin Dragonet - a pair
Green Clown Goby
Blue Spot Jawfish
Fuzzy Dwarf Lionfish
Yellow Banded Pipefish
Blue Tang
Niger Trigger
Blue Cleaner Wrasse
Sea Grass Wrasse
McCosker's Flasher Wrasse

Any fish you would recommend? Fish on the list that don't go together?

For lighting I don't know much and was wondering what is the most attractive lighting for a fish only set up?

Well let me know what you think and tell me if there is something else i should be thinking about.

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/3072/seagrasswrasseps.jpg (http://img51.imageshack.us/i/seagrasswrasseps.jpg/)

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[Tuscaquatics]

Well mixing the wrasses could be sketchy. And the lion will eat what he can get in his mouth. And forget the stupid damsels. They aren't worth a damn.

[super stooge]

i think you will have some problems with the niger triggerfish and some of the smaller and more peacful inhabitants such as the firefish

[Lannyrx7]

You'll want peaceful or aggressive fish. Or you'll just end up with aggressive fish.

[sneakerpimp]

You'll want peaceful or aggressive fish. Or you'll just end up with aggressive fish.

Which fish are you referring to? The blue niger is semi aggressive, but I've seen them in tanks with peaceful fish and they were fine.

the dwarf lionfish should be the same way, he'll keep to himself at the bottom.

[Tuscaquatics]

Which fish are you referring to? The blue niger is semi aggressive, but I've seen them in tanks with peaceful fish and they were fine.

the dwarf lionfish should be the same way, he'll keep to himself at the bottom.

The Niger can be hit or miss. They're generally peaceful. I have one in my reef and he's fine so far, but he is small.

The lion won't be aggressive per se, but he will eat anything he can fit in his mouth. I put a gold head sleeper goby in with my volitan, and he was lunch in about 15 minutes. They're insatiable eaters.

Sometimes even a fish labelled as "semi-aggressive" can be a predator at heart, and when you mix them with others, those tendencies come out. In the future, take "semi-aggressive" to mean "aggressive."

[sneakerpimp]

The Niger can be hit or miss. They're generally peaceful. I have one in my reef and he's fine so far, but he is small.

The lion won't be aggressive per se, but he will eat anything he can fit in his mouth. I put a gold head sleeper goby in with my volitan, and he was lunch in about 15 minutes. They're insatiable eaters.

Sometimes even a fish labelled as "semi-aggressive" can be a predator at heart, and when you mix them with others, those tendencies come out. In the future, take "semi-aggressive" to mean "aggressive."

I think my LFS has a Fuzzy Dwarf Lionfish that is smaller than the dwarf.

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/488/dendrochirusbrachypteru.jpg (http://img534.imageshack.us/i/dendrochirusbrachypteru.jpg/)

[Tuscaquatics]

Hey, man. Try it out. You asked our opinion. I'm just telling you, if you've never had a lionfish, you will be shocked at how hungry these guys are.

I inherited one from a friend who couldn't get him to eat anything but guppies. He eats 2-3 big silversides a day. And still asks for more. And like I said, this dude ate a rather large sleeper goby like he was a minnow.

If you have your mind made up, then go ahead and get one. I'm not saying don't get him, just make sure you don't give him anything he can make a meal of.

[Tuscaquatics]

Don't take my last post as smart-assed. I'm not trying to be mean about it.

[sneakerpimp]

Hey, man. Try it out. You asked our opinion. I'm just telling you, if you've never had a lionfish, you will be shocked at how hungry these guys are.

I inherited one from a friend who couldn't get him to eat anything but guppies. He eats 2-3 big silversides a day. And still asks for more. And like I said, this dude ate a rather large sleeper goby like he was a minnow.

If you have your mind made up, then go ahead and get one. I'm not saying don't get him, just make sure you don't give him anything he can make a meal of.

I appreciate your advice. The owner of my LFS was pushing the dwarf saying he would be fine. Is your lion fish entertaining to watch?

[Tuscaquatics]

I appreciate your advice. The owner of my LFS was pushing the dwarf saying he would be fine. Is your lion fish entertaining to watch?

Meh, 'entertaining' certainly isn't the word to use. He really doesn't do much except eat, and and ask for food so he can eat. He does have personality, though, and no matter where he is in the tank, he will come to the front and greet me when he sees me. And he eats out of my hand.

Nothing bothers him. When I give him a silverside, sometimes he might not take it at first, and I'll drop it to see if he gets it. If he doesn't get it, and it sinks to the bottom, I'll stick a net in to grab it, and he doesn't even care about it. Sometimes I have to nudge him out of the way.

But they are frickin' beautiful! That one you showed is awesome.

[sneakerpimp]

Meh, 'entertaining' certainly isn't the word to use. He really doesn't do much except eat, and and ask for food so he can eat. He does have personality, though, and no matter where he is in the tank, he will come to the front and greet me when he sees me. And he eats out of my hand.

Nothing bothers him. When I give him a silverside, sometimes he might not take it at first, and I'll drop it to see if he gets it. If he doesn't get it, and it sinks to the bottom, I'll stick a net in to grab it, and he doesn't even care about it. Sometimes I have to nudge him out of the way.

But they are frickin' beautiful! That one you showed is awesome.

He sounds pretty cool. There is the possibility of me asking the LFS to order in a Fu Manchu Lionfish. They grow to a max of 5 inches. I figure the smaller mouth the better.:lol:

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/2226/fumanchulionfish.jpg (http://img594.imageshack.us/i/fumanchulionfish.jpg/)

[super stooge]

lions are gorgeous. my favourite fish ever was a fuzzy dwarf lion my brother owned before i got into keeping fish, he would glide smoothly through the tank then seem to almost "perch" on a rock and present himself in an awesome pose. chances are though, they will eat anything that fits in their mouth which is even larger than it looks. if you watch carefully when they eat, their mouths extend and open in a kind of telescopic motion. just somthing to keep in mind

[Jason S]

You will be surprised out how large a 5 inch dwarf lion can open its mouth, and how much they can eat. The McCosker's, Cardinals, clowns, mandarins, etc could easily end up as lunch.

I would highly recommend picking either agressive/ semi agressive, or peaceful fish. The Marine Beta's and pipefish can be iffy when they are not being pestered or stressed out, and I would not try them with more agressive fish.

[sneakerpimp]

You will be surprised out how large a 5 inch dwarf lion can open its mouth, and how much they can eat. The McCosker's, Cardinals, clowns, mandarins, etc could easily end up as lunch.

I would highly recommend picking either agressive/ semi agressive, or peaceful fish. The Marine Beta's and pipefish can be iffy when they are not being pestered or stressed out, and I would not try them with more agressive fish.

If I cut the lion from the list do you think the pipe fish or maybe ever a sea horse could go with the other fish on my list?

[Indymann99]

You need to check out the seahorse forum... :reading: I believe they need a seperate tank as the water temp required is lower and they will be out competed for food by almost any other fish. I know because I am going to "have" to build my wife a seahorse tank :spin2:

Also I assume you are going to "choose" from your list.. not try to get all those fish in a 120g...

[sneakerpimp]

You need to check out the seahorse forum... :reading: I believe they need a seperate tank as the water temp required is lower and they will be out competed for food by almost any other fish. I know because I am going to "have" to build my wife a seahorse tank :spin2:

Also I assume you are going to "choose" from your list.. not try to get all those fish in a 120g...


I'm going to go slow when adding fish. Making sure they are compatible with the two or three manderins I'm putting in the tank. Also, I'm now thinking of going with a 150 gallon tank.

[Ryno368]

just a thought to add on about the mandys you are wanting 3 is possible in a 120 - 150 g but you will need an established copepods population to support that many or look forward to stocking it every week full of copepods

[sneakerpimp]

just a thought to add on about the mandys you are wanting 3 is possible in a 120 - 150 g but you will need an established copepods population to support that many or look forward to stocking it every week full of copepods

I'm looking into a 55 gallon sump/refugium with sand, plants and live rock to keep a healthy population of copepods in the display tank.

[Farrierfish]

don't forget it takes copes/amphipods time to get a breeding population going.
I started mine going by adding in reefpods and tigerpods in october of 09 almost 6-7 months ago.
I now have a good population in both my 30 gallon sump and my tank.however one red spot bleeny/dragon goby and they have drastically reduced teh population so bad I added more last month.

Mandys take a lot to feed and you really need to let them pods have a few months unhindered growing time.

[sneakerpimp]

don't forget it takes copes/amphipods time to get a breeding population going.
I started mine going by adding in reefpods and tigerpods in october of 09 almost 6-7 months ago.
I now have a good population in both my 30 gallon sump and my tank.however one red spot bleeny/dragon goby and they have drastically reduced teh population so bad I added more last month.

Mandys take a lot to feed and you really need to let them pods have a few months unhindered growing time.

I'm just hoping my bigger tank can keep a good population of pods. Also my 55 gallon refugium should help. Hopefully the pods will find their way into the display tank from the refugium.

[sneakerpimp]

What is the cost difference between a 120g,150g and 180g tank?

[Jason S]

I'm just hoping my bigger tank can keep a good population of pods. Also my 55 gallon refugium should help. Hopefully the pods will find their way into the display tank from the refugium.

Seahorses and pipefish are not my area of expertise, and I would check on the seahorse forum on those.

If your fuge will be under the tank, the pods will likely not make it through the impeller of your return pump. You would need to move them manually which can be a hassle. or you can just wait for the ORA pellet eating Mandarins:)

[Toddrtrex]

Also, stick with one pair of clowns. More then that might work short term, but once one pair starts to spawn, they will not take too kindly to other clowns in the tank.

[lordofthereef]

or you can just wait for the ORA pellet eating Mandarins:)

To the OP: it sounds like you are new to fishkeeping. I think one of the best pieces of advice is what Jason said here. They may be a bit more expensive, but they are almost guaranteed to eat this way.

[sneakerpimp]

Seahorses and pipefish are not my area of expertise, and I would check on the seahorse forum on those.

If your fuge will be under the tank, the pods will likely not make it through the impeller of your return pump. You would need to move them manually which can be a hassle. or you can just wait for the ORA pellet eating Mandarins:)

What do you mean by ORA pellet eating Mandarins?

[Dont Ask Me]

He means mandarins that will eat pellets.

As for your fish, the dwarf lion is going to make a meal of many of your fish, though he may be small they have the ability to open there mouth very wide and love eating anything that moves, i lost a goby and blenny to a dwarf fuzzy that was only about 3-4 inches back when i was new to the hobby and if i didnt remove him im sure my percula clowns were next on his menu.

The trigger is likely to harras many of your tank mates to death also, there are exceptions but usually sooner or later they do.

The seahorse isnt an option at all

The wrasses is a bit of a gamble but achievable

And that is way to many fish, you are going to have to lose some from your list, or lose them from death later down the track.

If you really want the trigger and lion do a predator tank, if not do without them.

They maybe listed as semi aggresive but in my experience semi aggresive means there is a good chance they are going to be tempramental or aggresive.

[Dont Ask Me]

Also ill add the jawfish need a decent sandbed, the damsel is a pest and two pairs of clowns are going to hate each other at spawning time.

[Jason S]

He means mandarins that will eat pellets.

As for your fish, the dwarf lion is going to make a meal of many of your fish, though he may be small they have the ability to open there mouth very wide and love eating anything that moves, i lost a goby and blenny to a dwarf fuzzy that was only about 3-4 inches back when i was new to the hobby and if i didnt remove him im sure my percula clowns were next on his menu.

The trigger is likely to harras many of your tank mates to death also, there are exceptions but usually sooner or later they do.

The seahorse isnt an option at all

The wrasses is a bit of a gamble but achievable

And that is way to many fish, you are going to have to lose some from your list, or lose them from death later down the track.

If you really want the trigger and lion do a predator tank, if not do without them.

They maybe listed as semi aggresive but in my experience semi aggresive means there is a good chance they are going to be tempramental or aggresive.

Ditto... They list most damsels as "Semi-agressive", and I have seen some flat out evil damsels in my time.

Here are the fish I have in my 100 gallon SPS dominant with a 40 gallon sump/ fuge to give you an idea:
Six line wrasse
Mated pair of Gold Stripe maroons
Tomini Tang
SA Regal Tang
Diamond Goby
Green Mandarin

Thats it, and I have no plans on adding more fish. Also, I still feel the 100 gallon is too small for a full grown Regal which is why I am in the process of upgrading to a 180 for his sake alone. Well, that, and the wife said it was ok:)

I am glad you are researching your stock list before you make a rash decision that can cost you money, and, more importantly, the fish their lives. I wish more people would put this kind of forethought into their selections.

[sneakerpimp]

Also ill add the jawfish need a decent sandbed, the damsel is a pest and two pairs of clowns are going to hate each other at spawning time.

How deep of a sand bed would the jawfish need?

What species of demsels would you not consider a pest?

Would a 6' long 180 gallon tank make two pairs of clowns a more realistic option?