DIY Sump questions

[IronMan72]

I am making a sump from a 29G glass tank (see attached image) for my 75G DT. I think I have decided on the placement of the baffles. I am leaning toward a 5 gallon center return, 8 gallon input / skimmer / bubble chamber, and a 9.5 gallon refugium. The total capacity of the sump will be about 26.5 gallons. The operating capacity will be about 20 gallons.

The return section will require a minimum of 1 gallon of water and I plan on running the water level at 2.5 to 3 gallons. During a power failure I estimate that about 2.5 - 3 gallons will drain down to the sump from the DT and overflow box. I will be routing teeth in the baffle between the refuguim and the return so the bubble trap / input chamber will be 1 inch (approximately 1 gallon) higher than these areas. In the evnt of a power failure I should have an additional 3 gallon capacity that is unused.

Have I designed this with enough safety capacity?

What is the best way to plumb the flow to the refugium. I have seen it done both of these ways but am leaning toward the second.
A. split the drain from the overflow between the skimmer chamber and the refugium using a ball valve to limit the flow to the refugium.
B. split the return to supply the refugium using a ball valve to limit flow to the refugium and another Tee and ball valve to return water to the return or skimmer area to limit flow to the main tank without choking off the return pump. See the attached image from melevsreef.

[wec]

I would go with option B. So you can run all your drain water through a filter sock, to catch all the large particles.

[IronMan72]

I would go with option B. So you can run all your drain water through a filter sock, to catch all the large particles.

Thanks, good suggestion on the filter sock.

Anyone have any comments on the reserve capacity. Is it adequate? Should I make the chambers shorter to increase the reserve capacity? Should I cut back on refugium size to increase the return chamber capacity?

[75gsalt]

I just finished my 29g sump for my 75, I WENT WITH 12inch baffles, wish I went with 14inch. I keep all 3 chambers full, when pump is shut off I only get about 2inches of drain back. My drain and return are both 8 inches incase I ever upgrade to something bigger.

[IronMan72]

I just finished my 29g sump for my 75, I WENT WITH 12inch baffles, wish I went with 14inch. I keep all 3 chambers full, when pump is shut off I only get about 2inches of drain back. My drain and return are both 8 inches incase I ever upgrade to something bigger.

My drain is 8" and my return is 6.5". The baffles are 15.5" high but the refugium chamber will be 14.5" high because of the teeth in the baffle. I sized the drain chamber to accomodate a Reef Octopus NWB-110 or possibly a Reef Octopus NWB-150 when I need to upgrade my current skimmer. I have a Mag 5 that I will be using as the return pump but have sized the Return section to be large enough to accomodate a larger pump should I need more flow. My HOB overflow can handle up to 800 GPH. The Refugium is 13.5", I chose to maximize this section at the expense of the return. I really wanted it to be at least 10G but had to compromise to make the return 5G.

I have designed it to use as much of the vertical space as possible while still leaving what I believe to be a reasonable volume for safety. I'll likely add an auto top off device to the return chamber.

[RocketEngineer]

IronMan72,

I noticed two things that may make your current design less then ideal.

1) Reef Octopus skimmers work best in 8-10" of water. With a baffle that high, you will not be able to dial it in as it will always be running too wet. I would recommend a 9" baffle set between the drain and the return sections.

2) It looks like you intended to use acrylic baffles in a glass tank. This is not recommended because the silicone will bond to the glass but not the baffles. Depending on how thick the baffles are, if they deflect they could slip out of the silicone. When I built my sump I got (4) pieces of glass from a local shop for 40 bucks with tax. I had them cut 1/4" narrower then the tank to create a 1/8" gap on each side. Siliconed them in this past week and just finished a water test this past weekend. They didn't have any problems holding back the refugium full with the return section empty.

Hope that helps.

RocketEngineer

[IronMan72]

IronMan72,

I noticed two things that may make your current design less then ideal.

1) Reef Octopus skimmers work best in 8-10" of water. With a baffle that high, you will not be able to dial it in as it will always be running too wet. I would recommend a 9" baffle set between the drain and the return sections.

2) It looks like you intended to use acrylic baffles in a glass tank. This is not recommended because the silicone will bond to the glass but not the baffles. Depending on how thick the baffles are, if they deflect they could slip out of the silicone.

Hope that helps.

RocketEngineer

Thank you, your comments are helpful.

I took into consideration the ideal operating depth of several skimmers but felt that I could always add a shelf to raise the skimmer off the bottom if needed. This would allow it to operate in the optimal water depth without reducing the height of the baffles. My current skimmer works perfectly (knock on wood). I accomodated the Reef Octopus skimmers because it has the largest footprint of skimmers that I'd consider as a replacement should the need arise. My concern is that reducing the bubble trap baffles to 9" will reduce the capacity of my return to 3G and require that I reduce the width and capacity of my refugium to 4G to compensate. I decided on the taller 29G aquarium, instead of the 20L so I could maximize the size of the refugium.

I considered using glass baffles, and it might have been a better choice. I chose to use 1/4" acrylic baffles to minimize the deflection because I wanted the ability to route teeth into the baffle between the refugium and return to keep things in the refugium. Of the decisions that I have made, this may be the most likely to bite me in the back side.

I should have started this thread before I purchased the tank and baffles and I may have made some different choices.

[juicesay]

The water level is so low.

That baffle on your fuge wall seems to be giving in.

Did you use 1/4" acrylic or is that 1/16" It's caving in!!!

[uncleof6]

The water level is so low.

That baffle on your fuge wall seems to be giving in.

Did you use 1/4" acrylic or is that 1/16" It's caving in!!!


Yeah that baffle is done for, not IF but WHEN. Don't matter if it is 1/4" (6MM.)

Jim

[IronMan72]

The water level is so low.

That baffle on your fuge wall seems to be giving in.

Did you use 1/4" acrylic or is that 1/16" It's caving in!!!

The picture of the sump with the baffle caving in is not my sump. I used that picture to demonstrate a plumbing design I was considering. I agree that the fuge wall on that sump is probably going to fail. My sump will use 1/4" acrylic panels to span 12". My sump is the other picture and isn't assembled yet.

[ezhoops]

following along, wanting to build a 29 gal sump also.

FWIW, I would skip the socks, unless you plan to clean weekly or more.

[uncleof6]

following along, wanting to build a 29 gal sump also.

FWIW, I would skip the socks, unless you plan to clean weekly or more.

Socks need to be cleaned every other day, if not everyday, otherwise get questions like: How come my nitrates are so high? ;)

Incidently, my ex is from Royal Oak, seen her lately?

Jim

[ezhoops]

Incidently, my ex is from Royal Oak, seen her lately?

Jim

So is mine...................:beer:

[IronMan72]

following along, wanting to build a 29 gal sump also.

FWIW, I would skip the socks, unless you plan to clean weekly or more.

My overflow box does not have any mechanical filtration and my friend gave me a couple of socks so I figured I'd try them and see what I thought. I figured I'd make sure the plumbing was capable of supporting them and if I decide not to use them it's as easy as taking them off.

Haven't had much time to work on the sump this week because of the kids after school activities but I picked up some plumbing parts and hope to have some time this weekend. I'll at least get the silicone taken care of so it has a chance to cure.:hammer:

[IronMan72]

Incidently, my ex is from Royal Oak, seen her lately?

Small world, my sister in law and brother in law live in Royal Oak.

[IronMan72]

Finally had a chance to install the baffles. Here are some shots of the sump in a closed loop test. I'm pretty happy with the performance. Actual capacities ended up being 4.6 gallon center return, 8.5 gallon input / skimmer / bubble chamber, and a 9 gallon refugium. 20 gallon operating capacity with a 6.5 gallon reserve capacity.

I want to put a pair of 250W heaters in the sump, would the input chamber be an acceptable location? There won't be enough room in the return chamber.

Won't have a chance to get it under the DT and plumbed up until the weekend.

[IronMan72]

Progress has been slow but I have finally gotten the plumbing primed and glued. I mixed the SW to fill the sump last night and will likely start it up tonight.

It will be replacing a canister filter that I have been using temporarily. At least to start, should I move the carbon media and sponges from the canister to the sump to avoid a sudden reduction in the bacteria population. I'd slowly remove one at a time from the sump over the course of a couple weeks.

[Tryx]

that first picture of the test run looks like there a lot of bubbles being formed in the return area from the water falling so far off the baffles. Looks like you would loose any benefit from the bubble trap. Would there be any way to prevent that?

[IronMan72]

It sure does look like bubbles in that first picture but there weren't really any bubbles being produced. If you look at the second picture, it's a different angle and there are no bubbles.

[IronMan72]

Finally made time to get the sump installed and operating. Haven't taken any pictures yet as it was getting very late by the time I was done. Now that it's setup I need to make some decisions on how to best utilize the refugium. I want to use it for nutrient export and cultivating pods.

Looking for some opinions
cheato or caulerpa?
bare botton, shallow sand bed or deep sand bed?
live rock or no?

[IronMan72]

I also need to put a heater in the sump. Currently I am using a 300 Watt inline heater in the return line of the canister filter but it will be going away with the canister filter. Should I go with a single 300 watt heater, or a pair of 200W or 250W heaters for redundancy. I was thinking the pair would be best.

[DetroitReefer]

Nice! I was going to post my setup. It's almost the same, but I have a 90 display and a 38g sump. I installed my own baffles as well. Works great.

My baffles are 12" tall. I just use a platform to raise the skimmer without losing total volume.

Funny little quote:

"Iron man is a superhero. Iron woman is a command"

:D

[IronMan72]

Thanks. I had considered making the bubble trap baffles slightly shorter and wish I had cut them off by 1 inch. The water level in the skimmer chamber runs a bit higher than expected. I'll give it a few days to give me a chance to think about it. I may get out the dremel and trim them down.

[IronMan72]

Been operating for a few days now and finally had a chance to dial in the flow rate. Evaporation is about 1/2 gallon per day. Skimmer is finally starting to skim again. Just need to decide how to setup the refugium.