Help with a daily water change program.

[PowermanKW]

So I have a Tunze osmolator. I found a DIY to use it for a continuous water change. I got it made up yesterday and it works great. I use a relay to switch between a ATO pump and a salt water change ATO pump. So this is what I want to do.

Say at 17:00 turn on relay to switch pumps.
17:00 turn on waste water pump for 120 seconds. (1 gallon) Then after 5-10 minutes turn off relay so RO/DI ATO is back in service.

Easy to do.

Now... my make up pump is much slower. Takes about 3-4 minutes to top off the gallon. So, I would like to oscillate the waste pump say 20 sec on 40 off and do that 4 times for the 120 sec. Give the salt water ATO time to keep up.

Also... I would like to use a dummy timer so that I can just tun on one timer and have the whole thing run... but I don't know how to accomplish that with the waste pump only being able to run 120 sec. I don't want to time/match pumps cause that defeats the whole purpose of using the ATO. I want to just get rid of a gallon and then top it back off.

If I can't have both I would rather have the one timer go so I can do manual water changes of 1 gallon for a while till I feel comfortable it is working right.

Thanks for any help.

[PowermanKW]

Anyone?

[PowermanKW]

Well I'll just play around and see if it works. I'm thinking of setting up a dummy timer to turn on auto and manuall.

Then turn on my pump with OSC to have it go a few cycles... but then do a min time statement to turn it off after a minute or so and not allow it to come back on for 15 min say. Then the SW ATO will be done and the dummy timer will turn off in say 10 minute. Sound like it will work???

[swearint]

I assume you are using an Apex? I am not familiar with the osmolator, so I won't specifically address that. I would try and keep it as simple as possible:

+ Disable the ATO

+ Start the pump to remove old saltwater

+ Stop pump after required duration

+ Start the pump to add new saltwater

+ Stop pump after required duration

+ Enable the ATO

You can do this with simple 'If Time ...' commands. And use the 'If Outlet...' command to disable/enable the ATO.

Todd

[PowermanKW]

Thanks Todd. I realize I can use simple timer statements to do it. What I am trying to do is a one botton mannual WC, and I'm also trying to limit the waste pump so the Tunze can keep up better. I was trying to approach this with dummy timers.... but I wracked my brain and can't seem to come up with what I want.

So to do automatic daily changes....

I will just use a time statement at the top of the hour
Then run waste pump with OSC statement of 20 sec on 40 sec off for a durration of 4 minutes to get 1 gallon

For the relay to swap the Osmolator from RO/DI pump to SW pump I will say if "waste pump" = on then on. And put in a "Min time" statement to leave it on for 10 minutes. That way the top off will be all caught up and the osmolator can switch back to RO/DI.

To get a one button manual WC, I'm going to set up a feed timer for 4 minutes, and add a statement to the waste pump program to say If feed D = on then on.

I think that will give me what I want. I might find the OSC statement to not be of much use and just run the waste pump for a set 1:20 time.

[swearint]

If you want to use a literal push button switch to start things off this thread may help out: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1835401

Todd

[PowermanKW]

Too cool Todd. I'm not too sure how often I will use the one button use... like just to do a cycle so I can empty a jug and get some water.... don't know. Just thought it would be cool to push a button on the Apex and change some water out.

Probably use it to get some water out for dipping new corals or something like that and top back off with new SW.

[PowermanKW]

OK weird... not as easy as I thought

[Waterchange] (dummy timer)
If Time 19:00 to 19:04 Then ON
If FeedD 000 Then ON

(feed timer D is set for 4 minutes)

[WC_Pump]
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
OSC 000:00/000:20/000:40 Then ON
If Outlet Waterchange = OFF Then OFF

(Waste pump runs 20 sec on 40 off for 4 cycles in 4 minutes)

[WC_Relay]
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Outlet Waterchange = ON Then ON
Min Time 010:00 Then OFF

(Relay should come on with WC_Pump and stay on for 10 minutes to make sure saltwater is caught up before tuning off to switch back to RO/DI)


So at first I had my OSC statment in the wrong order. It was always in OSC.... got that straghtened out. Wound up needing a dummy timmer.

Now the waste pump works how I want.... but the "Min time" statement is not working how I want. Instead of staying on for ten minutes then turning off.... it turns off in 4 minutes like the dummy and pump outlet.

[swearint]

What turns [Waterchange] OFF? Seems it needs a SET OFF at the beginning. Also. Min Time 10:00 Then OFF does not work the way you want. It will hold the Outlet OFF for at least 10 minutes before allowing another condition to turn it back ON. I also don't understand why you need to use OSC.

If I understand correctly the osmolator is working like a diverter, either it supplies topoff water or saltwater? So lets map this out:

osmolator defaults to RO mode

saltwater change is initiated

disable osmolator until old water is removed

activate pump to remove old water

wait [time] so that a fixed amount of old water is removed

deactivate pump

enable relay to switch osmolator to saltwater mode

enable osmolator to add saltwater until proper level is restored

disable relay to switch osmolator to default RO mode

Is that correct?

Todd

[PowermanKW]

So the osmolator does not need to be off. I power a relay to run the saltwater top off pump which is run by the osmolator controller. So normally it controls the RO/DI top off pump, and when I power the relay it runs the salt water top off pump.

OSC is just there because. Probably don't need it. I just wanted to space out the waste water removal because it is faster than the salt water addition. Help the salt wate rtop off from getting too far behind.

So I was running the salt water top off pump off the waste pump timer...but can't do that cause of OSC... so I use a dummy [waterchange] The only thing turning on the dummy is feed timer D or at 19:00 it will run for 4 minutes.

Now the relay does power on.... I thought Min time prevents a timer from operating AGAIN, but not now... at least that is the way it is explained in the user guide....so state changes to on.... then it is held in the on position for 10 minutes.... then off.

So it does power on.... but it powers off in 4 minutes.

[swearint]

It sounds like you are adding new saltwater while you are removing old saltwater. If so, that is not the optimum use of your new saltwater, since it will be removed as it mixes with the old.

Regarding Min Time, from the owner's manual: 'The number parameter specifies the number of minutes and seconds to keep the outlet in the specified state before it can changed to the opposite state.'

I find the easiest way to read it is to disregard the 'Then'. So it reads: Min Time xxx OFF and would keep the outlet OFF for (at least) xxx minutes before it will be allowed to turn ON. It can stay OFF longer than xxx if no condition turns it back ON. DEFER usually works better if you want a time delay in a sequence of events.

Todd

[PowermanKW]

I'm taking water out of the skimmer section, and adding it to the return section, so I'm not too concerned with taking new water out.

But that is what I don't get..... by what you are saying my relay should not power on for 10 minutes..... but it is powering on.... but only for the 4 minutes the feed timer is running and the Dummy timer is on.

It should be min time on of off for 10 minutes, but it acts like the statement is not there.

When I read the user guide... it says all statements are evaluated first to last, and what ever the last state is is what will happen..... So I don't see how moving the Min Time statement first will help..... and all it is dong now is seeing "Waterchange" off so it turns off.

the way I read defer is that it will keep anything from happening for 10 minutes.... so it will not power on till ten minutes later..... and then I don't have anything telling to be on or when to turn off.

[PowermanKW]

Min time 010 then ON fixed it. Thanks a bunch for all the help.:thumbsup: