Long centipede type worm ID needed....

[MeVsTheWorld]

First time seeing these in my tank. I looked around the web and did not find anything similar. I found 2, the big one being around 20" long when it was stretched out in the tank. They move like a centipede. Are they reef safe, or should I flush them? Here is the best pics I could get....
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn142/waronu/reef%20tank/Picture991.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn142/waronu/reef%20tank/Picture992.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn142/waronu/reef%20tank/Picture984.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn142/waronu/reef%20tank/Picture989.jpg

[Zappo]

Is the lighting different in that 3rd pic or is the worm a different color? The other pics all look like the same type of bristle worm found in most tanks. Good sand cleaners when they're little. Big ones can bother fish when they move around at night but I've never seen one actually attack any healthy critter/coral.

[MeVsTheWorld]

It is definitely not a bristle worm. Those are not bristles, but more like individual legs. The lighting is different, 1st 2 are no flash, 2nd 2 are with flash. It is reddish brown, and green, but changes as it stretches out. The colors(darker) might just be food/excrement inside the worm?????

[nessbuilder]

Looks like a eunice worm

[burntfish]

Check this out.

http://www.chucksaddiction.com/hitchworms.html

[burntfish]

You can touch it and see if it hurts:lol2:.

[kcooley]

i have the same kind in my tank. it just takes food from my tubastrea, doesnt hurt anything. but i would flush it, nasty little critters.

[mscarpena]

Good luck getting rid of them. They are Oenone Fulgida worms and they are an absolute nightmare. They eat snails and clams. When your snails die there are covered in mucus right?? They are very tough and reproduce well in reef tanks. Get yourself a 6-lined wrasse to eat the babies and manually remove all the larger ones. If you caught 2 large ones in the same night you have a lot of them. I caught 9 and it took me about a year. Seriously the worst pest I have ever had. Eaten about $300 worth of clams. Darker coloring is food in the worm. Keep hunting for them at night, but do not buy any clams if you had planned on it. Also you will remove the large ones and you will not see any for some time and you will think they are gone, but think again. The small ones will grow larger and you will have more. If you have any questions search my name here I posted as much as I knew about them on here or e-mail me at mscarpena@msn.com. No one and I mean no one seems to know much about these at all. I studied mine and seemed to have learned some new or unknown things about them. I really love clams so it's bad that I have them. They don't seem to bother too much else other than snails and mollusks, but I do see the small ones nibbling on my one acan. They never seem to actually be able to kill any of my LPS, but can't be good for them. I figure there are so many LPS in my tank they nibble a little here and there.

[MeVsTheWorld]

Good luck getting rid of them. They are Oenone Fulgida worms and they are an absolute nightmare. They eat snails and clams. When your snails die there are covered in mucus right?? They are very tough and reproduce well in reef tanks. Get yourself a 6-lined wrasse to eat the babies and manually remove all the larger ones. If you caught 2 large ones in the same night you have a lot of them. I caught 9 and it took me about a year. Seriously the worst pest I have ever had. Eaten about $300 worth of clams. Darker coloring is food in the worm. Keep hunting for them at night, but do not buy any clams if you had planned on it. Also you will remove the large ones and you will not see any for some time and you will think they are gone, but think again. The small ones will grow larger and you will have more. If you have any questions search my name here I posted as much as I knew about them on here or e-mail me at mscarpena@msn.com. No one and I mean no one seems to know much about these at all. I studied mine and seemed to have learned some new or unknown things about them. I really love clams so it's bad that I have them. They don't seem to bother too much else other than snails and mollusks, but I do see the small ones nibbling on my one acan. They never seem to actually be able to kill any of my LPS, but can't be good for them. I figure there are so many LPS in my tank they nibble a little here and there.

My snails (dead) do have a slimy mucus coating, but I just thought that was the decomposition process. I have 2 clams, 1 that has been in the tank for over a year and they are both super healthy. I inspect my tank at night at least 5 days a week since it's inception and this is the first time I've seen them. I already have a 6 line, and I will now be on the hunt for these. I just used tweezers and they came easily out. Thanks for the heads up!!

burntfish: "You can touch it and see if it hurts." I told my brother in-law that...LOL

[MeVsTheWorld]

Here is the head, best pics I could get. It looks like they have a flat head with a sucker mouth, hard to tell.
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn142/waronu/reef%20tank/Picture998.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn142/waronu/reef%20tank/Picture996.jpg

[burntfish]

Did he touch it.

[mscarpena]

NO sucker mouth they have jaws and can chew right through prey. I had a large 6" maxima that I had for a long time as well. I did not know I had them they are very difficult to see and find. I bought a couple more smaller clams and they were all dead within a week except my large one. They never seemed to bother the large one. One night they attacked the large one and it died. If I were you I would get rid of your clams because eventually they will be a snack for the worms. Try adding some scallops and see if they eat it to bait them out. I grabbed them with tweezers as well. They do come out easily, but do not rip them or you will just grow another one. How large are your clams. Also I would not touch them(I never did), but they secrete some sort of weird stuff and some people say it is a narcotic?? I do not know. I feel it is just digestive juices, but they secrete some purplish stuff when you grab them as a defense mechanism and I am not sure if it is poisonous or just a bad taste?? Good luck.

[MeVsTheWorld]

Did he touch it.

No one wanted to try:strange:

NO sucker mouth they have jaws and can chew right through prey. I had a large 6" maxima that I had for a long time as well. I did not know I had them they are very difficult to see and find. I bought a couple more smaller clams and they were all dead within a week except my large one. They never seemed to bother the large one. One night they attacked the large one and it died. If I were you I would get rid of your clams because eventually they will be a snack for the worms. Try adding some scallops and see if they eat it to bait them out. I grabbed them with tweezers as well. They do come out easily, but do not rip them or you will just grow another one. How large are your clams. Also I would not touch them(I never did), but they secrete some sort of weird stuff and some people say it is a narcotic?? I do not know. I feel it is just digestive juices, but they secrete some purplish stuff when you grab them as a defense mechanism and I am not sure if it is poisonous or just a bad taste?? Good luck.
My clam is around 3", it's been with me for 1 1/2yr and the other is like 4". I kept them in a container in my sump overnight and the water was sooo slime filled it was like gel. There was some purple fluid in the container this morning. I figured not to touch it just in case, maybe I could sell it on the street:hmm1: Thanks for the input, and the hunt continues!!!!!

[MeVsTheWorld]

I did some research, as I'm 99% sure that is what they are and here is the info I've got. Copied from:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-04/rs/images/ronheader.jpg

The only other large worm likely to be found in aquaria is the lysaretid polychaete Oenone fulgida. These animals are related the Eunicids, and, like them, possess jaws. They have three small antennae tucked in the groove between the two segments that make up the head, and a single dark eyespot may be visible on either side of the head.. Oenone fulgida has been reported to be circumtropical, and is quite variable for a single species. These studies date from the 1920s and it is quite likely that modern research, supplemented with genetic analyses, would show that what was thought to be one species eighty years ago is really several different species. The poorly studied nature of Oenone works against us, unfortunately, as it is relatively common in aquaria.

Whatever its status, animals that we presently refer to as Oenone fulgida may be easily recognized. As with the rest of the eunicid group, these worms lack the white tufts of setae characteristic of the fireworms. In fact these lysaretids tend to look relatively smooth, often without obvious appendages on their sides. This is an illusion, however, as they do have good appendages off of each side of each segment. The three antennae on the top of the head are small and often not visible, so the head looks smooth. In this particular case, color is a reasonably good characteristic to use in identification. Oenone individuals are typically orange, ranging from a dull, purplish orange to a brilliant blaze orange. They may be large worms, fully-grown adults often extend out of their burrows for two feet or more, and when fully extended they may be one quarter to one eighth of an inch in diameter. They typically live in burrows in rocks, but also may be found in tufts of algae or inside the water channels of large sponges. They are quite adept at detecting movement and will rapidly withdraw into their burrow if they are startled. Their withdrawal response, however, is not as rapid as that of Eunice individuals.

Oenone are nocturnal predators on snails and clams, and perhaps some other animals. They appear to extend from their burrow, and as they approach their prey they apparently secrete some mucus that covers the prey. This mucus may simply smother the prey, or it may contain some venom or narcotizing agent. After the prey is immobilized the worm extends a proboscis from the bottom of the head into the mucus and the jaws grasp the body of the prey. The jaws may also cut the attachments of the body to any shells, or alternatively the mucus may contain an agent that chemically severs the attachment. In any case, the prey's body is ingested. When the aquarist investigates the scene the next morning, all that typically remains is an empty snail or clam shell covered in a blob of mucus. Not many other predatory animals in marine aquaria typically leave behind such remains, consequently a dead, empty, shell covered with mucus is considered to be good evidence of the presence of an Oenone.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-04/rs/images/Figure-5.jpg
Figure 5 . This is the front end of a small individual of Oenone fulgida. Note the basic orange cast to the worm. This worm was about four inches long and about a quarter inch wide. A. Note the round "snout," or prostomium, and the three small tentacles at the top of the head. This configuration of snout and tentacles differs from the Eunice species (see Figure 4) and the fireworms (see Figures 1-3) and it is visible with a magnifying glass or hand lens. Note the relatively narrow segments as well; these make the worm appear smooth and lacking segments when viewed from a distance of about eight or ten inches. B. This is a lateral view of the head and front end of a preserved specimen. Note the proboscis is protruded from the mouth. These worms use the jaws located in the proboscis to grasp and manipulate food. C. This is a view of the head from directly above, showing the characteristic three tentacles. There is a single dark eye normally visible on each side of the head, but the eye pigments have faded in the preservative.

Oenone fulgida are not too hard to remove from a system, but it takes diligence. They most often live in burrows in rock, and enter aquaria in uncured rocks, and being nocturnal, the hobbyist has to search for them in the middle of the night. Using a red flashlight is best, as they will rapidly withdraw in the beam of a normal flashlight. They will appear as long worms stretched out and over the rocks. Once an Oenone individual is presumed to be living in a tank, the hobbyist must watch it withdraw in order to see where its burrow is found. After the rock with the burrow is located, the rock must be removed and the animal flushed from its burrow using a flood of carbonated water (soda pop works well). The worm is then discarded, and the rock replaced in the aquarium.

These things have been taking my snails out for some time now, I just figured the slime was them decomposing.......

[mscarpena]

That's what I thought about the snails. Also your clams will be a snack at some point. If you value your clams lives you should get rid of them. I had mine for about the same time frame. I think they eat a small amount of the clams foot until they weaken them and then move in for the kill.

[MeVsTheWorld]

At what point do you think it's clam safe????? I mean I would hate for my tank inhabitants to be dictated to me by some worms. Like stated earlier, this is the first sighting, which they were both removed. I realize that there are a million nooks and crannies in my tank that are totally unobservable, but there has to be a solution.

[mscarpena]

I have not found a solution at this point. I have removed 9 of them. I would not see them for about 3-4 months so I thought I was safe and bought another clam. That clam was dead in a week. I then caught a few more. Then did not see any for about 6 months or so I bought another clam and caught another worm. My clam then died again so I just gave up on clams. I have never found any info on how to get rid of them. They seem to be able to go a long time without food. I starved them for 5 months and they finally ate eachother. I tried Iodine dips, PraziPro, and trapping them. Nothing, but more and more worms. I was absolutely heartbroken when my Maxima clam died. It was the most beautiful clam I had ever seen. I had it for about 3 years, but only 18 months in that tank. To this day I still see a few small ones here and there. I really feel the only way to be sure your rid of them is to dry out or run all of your rock under hot tap water. I know this is not what you want to hear, really not what I wanted to believe. I really think tearing down your tank is the only sure fire way to get rid of them. Also any large corals would have to be sold off. I have not lost any snails in quite some time now, but I do not dare to try another clam. I think I will probably never be able to get another clam. My guess is they have babies and we catch the adults then the babies grow after a few months and them cause problems again. I also tried to starve them out of my tank, but had no luck. Good luck and if you think of anything or find anything that works please let me know.

[mscarpena]

Also my tank is 75 gallons so your tank might be easier to get rid of them. At least I hope so for your sake. You will think you are rid of them, but most likely you are not. These guys had me so worked up I contemplated getting out of the hobby. Instead I got another tank that had my clams in it before I took that one down. I know there are no worms in that rock work. Well good luck and if I can help further let me know. Also sorry for the bad news.

[rklaue]

:eek1:no sleep for me tonite

[SurrealSerenity]

All I can say is ewwww, interesting but eww. Good luck!
*goes to search tank out of paranoia*

[liferrari]

I'm at war with them for about 3 months.

Currently the only way to catch them is with a trap (made using a bottle) containing 2, 3 little clams or mussels and do it in the night :hmm3:.

O.F. are ultra fast and highly sensitive to lights. To identify them I had to buy an infrared night-visor; because otherwise nothing was there (just empty snails in the morning !).

Today I caught 8 of about 10 inches (there are certainly 2 ....I hope no more but I am not so confident...)

I am not aware of other methods, but we have to find IT ! :furious:

I'm trying now to insert a crab "Stenorhynchus Seticornis" trying to see if it may at least control their babies. Friends are suggesting me also this fish "Coris Gaimard" - but I am not so confident about it. I'm investigationg about this fish.....too

HI, we must find a way to get them out from our tanks ! :beer:

Unfortunately, up to now, the only secure way to win is...unfortunately, throw away all rocks. :thumbdown

I want my clams back in my tank ! :inlove:

Ciao

[mscarpena]

Post a picture of the trap you are using. Also are you removing them with the trap or are you baiting them out and removing them with tweezers? Mine always keep the butt ends in the rock and just retract back when they are done eating. I have to remove all of mine with tweezers. No fun.

[SurrealSerenity]

how can I tell if I have these worms or bristle worms? Under water they seem to look similar?

[GhostCon1]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1165930/Barry-giant-sea-worm-discovered-aquarium-staff-mysterious-attacks-coral-reef.html

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/03/31/article-1165930-03FD1AB7000005DC-269_468x329.jpg

Don't flush it... imagine that thing coming out of your toilet when you use it...

[jasonm311]

Wow :eek1: that thing is scary looking. To think we stick our hands in tanks and there could be something like that in there.

[GhostCon1]

did you read the link? the thing is 4ft long and can cause permanent paralysis. Amazingly, people have set up species tanks for those monsters :p

[jasonm311]

Yeah I read the link that is crazy lol. Well if it causes permanent paralysis I could see it being used in place of botox :lmao: Ok we are going to shoot the ugly worm juice in your face to get rid of your wrinkles.

[Ann Marie]

Eeew

I had one. I saw it one night and was able to take a couple of photos. I used all sorts of different traps but could never catch it. Every once in a while a fish would be missing, you know just 'poof' it was gone. I wondered if it could have been the worm. I do know it ate many of my LPS before I finally made the decision to tear the tank down to look for it.

So, one Thursday afternoon I filled a lot of bins with what I wanted living in my tank. Then I took all the rock out, put them in bins with about an inch of water. I was hoping that the worm would crawl out and I could catch it. Then I removed all the sand and sifted it just in case it was in the sand. By Sunday afternoon still nothing. So my next course of action was going to be set all the live rock out in the sun for a week to kill everything. :uzi: After talking to my LFS, they recommended putting the rocks in ziplocs and then into the freezer as that would kill everything sooner than sitting in the sand. I knew that I'd have to recycle everything again but it'd be worth it to get rid of it.

As I was using tongs to remove rock from the bins, I saw the worm and was able to catch it and get it out.

Good luck.

[mscarpena]

These worms are very very different acting and looking from bristle worms. These have no bristles and have legs. They are also an extremely different looking color. Also there heads are very different. Look at the pictures and you will see the difference.

[liferrari]

Post a picture of the trap you are using. Also are you removing them with the trap or are you baiting them out and removing them with tweezers? Mine always keep the butt ends in the rock and just retract back when they are done eating. I have to remove all of mine with tweezers. No fun.

Hi,

Find here a little photo of the trap I made using simple bottle of water.
Remember that since the worm is usually longer than the bottle and since it is very quick to come out if disturbed , you must attach to the trap a nylon wire that you recover quickly when you see inside the worm eating. Remember: the slightest hint of light make the worm falls fast in his hole......and you lose it !

Up to now, I've found no other methods..(tweezers and similar - O.F. are too fast). For sure if you have a better ones, it's WELCOME and let me know!

Ciao

[MeVsTheWorld]

I have removed 3 so far, and have just located another one. I have been looking under my tank to see where they are hiding. My sand is only 1-2", so if it's not under a rock I can just grab around in the sand and pluck them out. I use an LED flashlight with a piece of clear tape over it and just colored it red with a marker, instant infrared ;) I found that when I do heavy night feedings ALL nocturnal critters come out to feed. I just kill the return pump and let the food slurry in the tank for about an hour, then break out the flashlight and big tweezers. I am still thinking about using the bottle trick, but haven't got around to making it. BTW the first 2 I caught were out foraging in the moonlight I have on my tank, so it was just a matter of grabbing them out..

Good Luck!!!!!

[mscarpena]

IMO I do not think the bottle trick would work. I think he might have a different species of worm. I tried almost the same thing and never worked. You can always try it to see. IME tweezers are the best way. Glad to hear your making a dent in them. Good luck and keep up the good work.

[liferrari]

Here some little photo of ones I take out with the trap made with the bottle.

Using the bootle as trap, you have to see O.F. inside it while eating and you have to be very fast getting the trap out from the tank. Because O.F. are very light sensitive and very fast to go back in the rocks, the only way I found to see them in the trap is to use a night infrared visor......otherwise NO CHANCES even to see them (I never seen them before...).

I'm making this task after 1 or 2 hours after the lights are turned off, of the tank and of the room too - around at midnight.

...and you have to be very, very, very patient....

Up to date I have not found other ways....Do you have ?

Ciao

[mscarpena]

That would be them. Good luck with it working. I could see where if you pulled the trap up fast enough you might be able to suck them out of the rocks. I have not had success with this, but my worms were very large when I tried this trick. Mine was about 27" and at this point I do not have anywhere to put the trap so I can not try it. Give it a shot what do you have to loose.

[liferrari]

Do you never tried against them with "Stenorhynchus Seticornis" crab or with "Coris Gaimard" fish ?

Must be there some natural enimies of O.F......no idea ?

[mscarpena]

I have seen my 6 lined wrasse eat them. I caught one about 8 inches and ripped a few pieces off and he ate them right in front of me. I have come to conclude that he is currently eating the babies, but too small to eat the big guys.

[liferrari]

what is your "6 lined wrasse"?

:strange:

ciao

[liferrari]

what is your "6 lined wrasse"?

:strange:

ciao

do you mean "Pseudocheilinus hexataenia" fish ? I already have ones ....but nothing versus O.F.

Ciao,
:mixed:

[mscarpena]

Yes that is the species I am referring to. I agree that they will not take down large worms, but small ones they will eat. I also only feed my fish very lightly 3 times per week. I force them to forage in my tank and I think that forces them to eat more naturally.

[liferrari]

Mhmm,
I think it is not useful for my tank...I already have one in my tank since late 2007.

[JMcAz7]

I'm currently fighting these things as well. I've constructed a trap out of PVC pipe, but with an active "trapping" portion to hold them. I'll post pictures of it when it's ready to go, but hopefully this will get them. I have at least 2 big ones that ate my Maxima and my Bi-Color Blenny (he was covered in snot when I found what was left of his corpse, but that was months before I saw them).

Yes, I know this thread's been dormant all summer. :-)

[MeVsTheWorld]

I have removed a total of 8 large ones. I have not seen any for some time now. My clams have never been bothered, so far. They really seem to love snails though. I found if I don't feed my tank for several days, then do a big feeding before lights out they come out all that night, which makes it easier to find out where they hide. Good luck and post up your trap;)

I also keep the moonlights on with the feeding and that night. I think it helps desensitize them to light, so it's easier to catch.

[mscarpena]

How are you catching them. 8 thats fast. I would really get rid of your clams. All of mine were eaten by these worms. I had a 5-6" maxima that was eaten by them. I just saw another one and I have not seen any i 4 months. Bastards they are I tell you.

[MeVsTheWorld]

I found if I don't feed my tank for several days, then do a big feeding before lights out they come out all that night, which makes it easier to find out where they hide.

I also keep the moonlights on with the feeding and that night. I think it helps desensitize them to light, so it's easier to catch.

How are you catching them. 8 thats fast. I would really get rid of your clams. All of mine were eaten by these worms. I had a 5-6" maxima that was eaten by them. I just saw another one and I have not seen any i 4 months. Bastards they are I tell you.


See above for removal/luring out tactics. Once located I sneek up and use 10" tweezers to extract them, it's harder than it sounds, but inevitably works....I have had 1 of my 2 clams for a little over 1 1/2 yrs and the 2nd for 7 months. I refuse to give in and let them dictate what I can/can not have ;)

[mscarpena]

Thats how I catch mine. I have about 125LBS of rock in a fully stock 75 gallon tank so that may complicate things. I hear you on not wanting to give up your calms and I was the same way. In thought well I have had mine for so long and its about 5" long they should not be able to eat it. They were just eating the 2" ones. Well I was wrong and one day they ate my large Maxima. I felt so bad I almost cried. I loved this calm and it literally was the most beautiful one I have ever seen. So just to let you know one day you will wake up and they will have attacked it and eaten it. I truly hope I am wrong, but that was my experience. Good luck and thanks for the info. I will try longer tweezers.

[Engloid]

I'm tagging along since I found one in my tank and want to make sure I don't have more. Here's a link to my thread, where there are some good pictures of the one I caught tonight: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17737293&posted=1#post17737293

[JMcAz7]

I refuse to give in and let them dictate what I can/can not have ;)

I don't negotiate with terrorists either. :-)

[MeVsTheWorld]

I don't negotiate with terrorists either. :-)

:beer:

Here is your link http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17736861

Just encase someone comes here and misses it. Great trap BTW, I will be making one of these....Thanks!

[MeVsTheWorld]

Still have not seen any new worms. I have sat up many, many nights baiting/stalking these things, but have yet to find another one. I added another clam about 5-6 weeks ago and just like the other 2 they are doing great. Like stated before I found that looking under my tank I could see where they hid under the sand. I would flash them with light and watch them take off. . I only have around 1 1/2" of sand so there is no real depth for them to hide. Once located that is where the bait was set. The trails have since disappeared after the removals. Luckily their reproduction rate is thought to be fairly slow, after talking with Dr Ron Shimek and Leslie on another forum. I hope I have come to an end of this problem. I will continue to monitor my tank regardless.