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View Full Version : Getting LR & LS from a crashed tank


reefer_al
05/17/2010, 12:00 PM
Hey guys,

Im completely new to the marine side of the hobby. Have been keeping freshwater setups for a while, and finally made the move. To warm myself up, im setting up a 35 gallon FOWLRLS tank. I wanted to use the Berlin method of filteration, so I dont intend to use a mechanical filter. Just a skimmer, LR & LS.

Now I managed to find someone with a mature tank, who was selling exactly the amount of LR & LS I needed. I went to pick up the stuff, and found out that his tank was in a pretty bad state. Was having a decomposed fish floating, a dead starfish rotting and some half dead anemone. Looked like he gave up on his tank, when waiting for a customer to buy all the sellable stuff. There was just a surviving cardinal and some snails that were the surviving inhabitants.

When taking out the LS, pockets of H2S erupted, and the whole room was smelling like a drain. His sand had compacted badly at the lower levels, and was stinking (i powdered these compacted cakes of sand before using them myself). I came and rinsed it well with a saltwater and got most of the stink out. The LR on the other hand had a really nice coat of Coraline algae, some attached red marine algae and some round leaved green plants.

Now im wondering whether my rocks are dead/semidead or live. Same with the sand. I suspect that most of the organisms must have been killed off. I just saw some snails. No Birtleworms, shrimps and little critters at all.
And to top it off, my coraline algae is dissapearing (I still havent got the blue spectrum lights, skimmer. Has just been shipped).

My concerns are, would I have to cycle these rocks and cure them, like the way you do when you get normal LR? (It was out of the water for about an hour max) Also anything else I should do, considering the sand and rock have come from a pretty foul environment. Anyway I can save the coraline algae? The setup is a couple of days old. Twas without light, as I read you dont need to have light for the first few days of cycling. Now Im in a fix, whether these rocks should be cycled or not.

And the tank has wavemakers/power heads that have a total turnover of more than 100X. Im wondering if even thats bad. Its like a small storm in the tank, if the wavemaker heads point in the wrong direction. I have precisely pointed it so as to produce continous currents without disturbing the sand. But some granules from the surface of the sand are still being moved around continuously. And sometimes i get to see small twister like movements of sands, thats pretty entertaining.

Fizz71
05/17/2010, 12:09 PM
I probably wouldn't have kept the sand without total obliterating everything it with severe rinsing. Maybe keep a few cups of it to kick start it again. As for the live rock, you'll just have to see what happens. I wouldn't worry about coraline, you'll probably lose most if it, but it will come back once you're stable. I'd run the tank a few days and test the water to answer your questions of if you need to do anything to it. If there were dead fish in the tank your probably have some seriously bad-*ss bacteria in there trying to take care of things...that would actually be GOOD for you.

I'd say after a week test your ammonia and nitrates..if you have no ammonia and tons of nitrates then the rock is pretty much taking care of itself. Light the tank or don't, doesn't matter, but he coraline will die quickly without light; as long as it's still around it will repopulate later.

Where are your readings now?

joeshmo
05/17/2010, 12:42 PM
I wouldn't re-use the sand since it's so compacted with detritus. Sand is not incredibly expensive for a 30gallon tank so it would be beneficial to buy new aragonite sand (not the sugar fine sand either).

The live rock should be fine. You could even reuse much of the water. I did that in a move hundreds of miles and skipped a cycle entirely. If you are worried about a cycle, you could just use the live rock and as much water as you can then I've heard people add very well washed sand later on. If you went that route you will have a very cloudy tank for a while but it settles down.

Lots of ways to do it and they all work. Short cycle long cycle, the end result is the same. I definetly would use the rock as is (perhaps a scrub here and there if any nuissance algae etc are present) and it will help you cycle your own tank much faster.

Sisterlimonpot
05/17/2010, 01:12 PM
+1 for Fizz71
The coralline will return on its own, usually any time out of the tank will turn the coralline white. But once you get light to the tank it will bounce back.

Clean the sand thoroughly and you'll be ok. (3 or 4 rinses should be fine), I personally wouldn’t use it but that’s just me.

Keep in mind that using or not using the old water isn't going to speed up any cycling process as the bacteria doesn't live in the water column, it's going to be found on the substrate (like your rock and sand).

To further add to Fizz71 explanation add some source of ammonia (whether it be food, dead uncooked shrimp for a couple days) and watch to see if the ammonia spikes, if it doesn't then you have ample amount of bacteria on the substrate to rapidly convert the ammonia to nitrites and finally into nitrates. HPH

Sisterlimonpot
05/17/2010, 01:13 PM
oh and BTW
[welcome]

mr.maroonsalty
05/17/2010, 03:08 PM
I think this lr has potential to be more trouble than its worth; it surely isn't clean healthy rock from an experienced reef keeper. It may end up being a good buy, but it just as likely full of nutrients. I would watch the rock for a while to decide if a fresh start is needed and a few of its outer layers removed. The sand, if its argonite, I would go ahead and chemically treat it and start fresh.

Shotgunlew
05/17/2010, 03:12 PM
Ditch the sand , Score the rock, Save the Fish and snails If you can.


Chris

Chris27
05/17/2010, 04:02 PM
I think that if you're patient you'll end up just fine. Allowing the re-cycle to run it's course will only benefit you in the long run - after a couple of ammonia-nitrite-nitrate tests you'll know when it's ready for the first fish.

Don't worry too much about nutrient leaching or bad sand, just keep it stirred up real well and give it a good cleaning once or twice a month and it'll be good to go in no time at all.

Congrats and welcome to the most expensive hobby since shootin heroin....

Doc's_reef09
05/17/2010, 04:24 PM
rinse the sand good, take the rock and clean the slime/ algee off then put it in the tank. let it cycle with everything running. run ur skimmer to help pull all the junk out. should be okay in about a month or 2. just keep testing every week till it is down. add a clean up crew also about 3 weeks in and once its all balanced out add 1 fish at a time so it doesnt spike on u.

mr.maroonsalty
05/17/2010, 05:14 PM
I think that if you're patient you'll end up just fine. Allowing the re-cycle to run it's course will only benefit you in the long run - after a couple of ammonia-nitrite-nitrate tests you'll know when it's ready for the first fish.

Don't worry too much about nutrient leaching or bad sand, just keep it stirred up real well and give it a good cleaning once or twice a month and it'll be good to go in no time at all.

Congrats and welcome to the most expensive hobby since shootin heroin....

I was thinking more along the lines of PO4, or metals; N's wouldn't be much to worry about.

reefer_al
05/21/2010, 08:03 AM
Thanks a lot for the warm welcome and all the advice guys. Couldnt log in for the past few days as I was pretty busy. I have decided to go ahead with the sand and the rocks. Have rinsed it well, and have introduced it into the tank. Everything looks fine in the tank. Some of the snails seem dead, but the others look happy clinging on to the rocks. I have introduced lights, and the Coraline algae is coming back well, accompanied by some green hairy type algae (cant identify) and some strands of hair, which I assume is hair algae.

I dont see any other symptoms of cycling as of now. I will be testing my params by tonight, and will post the results.

Everything looks good, but my concern is how many organisms, and little critters could I have possibly got with my LR & LS. When the tank does stabilise, and when conditions are conducive for growth, would I end up in a situation, where I dont have enough hitchhikers on my LR & LS? Other than the algae and a few snails, the tank seems devoid of life. For me the most exciting part is to see various life forms grow on the LR & the LS, probably more exciting than introducing fish.

Also should I be feeding the LR & LS anything?

reefer_al
05/22/2010, 06:23 AM
My tank params after almost a week are as below:

NO3 : 5
NO2 : 0
GH : > 16d
KH : 15d
PH : 8

Does this mean that my tank is already cycled?
I also see small lumps being formed in my sand bed. It is argonite based Live sand. Is this normal or probably because I took sand from the crashed sand?

I also see various types of green algae (slimy + grassy) growing. The red coral like algae and some round thick leaved plants that came with the rocks have died off. The coraline algae is slowly spreading. Im am providing less than 1 watt per gallon of plain white light using fluorescent tubes. Snails seem ok, though I can see some empty shells on the sandbed.