I wish my Angel would eat your designer named zoa's

[djneedledamage]

I hope this designer name stuff doesn't cross over anymore than it already has to sps. We as reefers are already not considered normal by folks outside the hobby. Could you imagine if some of dogs had the name zoa's have? When is this going to stop? Maybe it will stop when people start buying stuff because it looks cool instead of the naming.

[jasonrp104]

Agreed, it is annoying. It didn't bother me until I started seeing them on DD.

[teesquare]

I long for the good old days when the Latin names were how we REALLY identified things, followed by color descriptions
T

[sslak]

My angelfish only eats Purple Armor of God Death Hornet Monkey Lemonades!

Such expensive tastes!

[edwing206]

"Hey guys, I bought a new polyp of zoooos(:rolleyes:) from my LFS and I was wondering if they had a name? Also, what do you think I could get for them?"
Turns out they are brown zoanthids that don't have a name. Then comes the thread "Help me name this new zoo I got." Then it gets named some ridiculous name and they are now able to sell a brown polyp for $50 each.
Don't get me wrong, I love zoanthids and playthoas. But I hate the whole name thing. What's worse is you can't really ask for a polyp without having to use the designer name.

[Levito]

Agree 100% with djneedledamage. I could care less about the "stripper's nipple," "strawberry firecrotch," or "rainbow kiss" named zoas. All I want is to have some nice looking zoas in my tank and to not have to pay exorbitant amounts based off some cheesy name.

[dcombs44]

+1. I'm building a zoa tank, and I have a hard time reading through all the jumbled names. I look for colors I like at a good price.

[djneedledamage]

If people want to name them. I think if they use that name in there home it would be ok. Like naming a fish. Just because I call my Purple tang (Pootie Tang) doesn't mean I have to carry that name to the next buyer in order to sell it for more. Lets call all zoa's fans (Newbies).

[djneedledamage]

Maybe they should be named by the 4C's.
Colors
Mouth Color
next color
color of tentacles.

So a RGB Blue,Green,Red

Sounds plain now.

[mthomp]

Agree 100% with djneedledamage. I could care less about the "stripper's nipple," "strawberry firecrotch," .

I care about both of these.

[dcombs44]

Ironically enough, this was posted on my club site today.

Scroll over the pictures for names. :)

http://neptunescove.net/Zoas_page.php

[mthomp]

ironically enough, this was posted on my club site today.

Scroll over the pictures for names. :)

http://neptunescove.net/zoas_page.php
saw that there myself

[dcombs44]

I saw you over there. Where are you from if you don't mind posting?

[mthomp]

quadcities

[dcombs44]

ahh...I was in Springfield, IL for a while, but now I'm back in Southern Illinois (Carbondale area).

BNARC is a pretty good group. Survived a few hiccups and turned out pretty solid.

[djneedledamage]

Who is naming these? Who has named a zoa. I think they watch way too many dirty movies and read too many comic books.

[JAStoodz]

"Green Stardust People Eaters and Nuclear Green Eye Colony Polyp Rock Gigantus IM
(Zoanthus gigantus) "

Directly from a retailers website, this one made me laugh :lol2:

[reefWW96]

i know, its ridiculous! A frag of what people call "rasta's " should be the same price as a frag of "eagle eyes" imo.... i mean seriously... who would pay $100 for ONE polyp of something that grows in the millions of polyps in the wild. Coral is becoming closer and closer to buy a designer pair of sunglasses! you pay for the name, not the product!

[eyesinthedrk]

awwww and i wanted to be the first breeder of Toxic Lion Godzilla Chihuahuas, back to the drawing board

in all seriousness dont blame the guy selling it blame the dip shhhh....uh ...dumb a.....um. stupid people paying for them. i had a friend put a 5 polyp frag of some common eagle eyes on ebay with a fake name and the suckers bid it up to something stupid like $15.00 per polyp. he didnt push it they did it to themselves

[Drewbaby]

That's one thing I like about my lfs. They don't deal heavily in zoas or acros, but from time to time they get them in and don't even bother to look up the names. I bought a 30 polyp frag of eagle eyes for $5 and they were labled as button polyps. Then I saw another regular buy a small acro colony that looked fairly washed out under the lfs pc light and when he got it outside in the sun he showed it to me in the bag an it had at least 4 different colors that were all very vibrant and he only paid $20 for the softball size rainbow

[SurrealSerenity]

haha I can't stand the names either. Its not just zoas, If I went up to someone who didn't know much about this hobby at all and said "hey I got some new kryptonite candy cane!" They would think I was talking about ecstasy or something.

[lbaldrey]

Whether corals are named or not you will pay a premium price for the better coloured ones...more so if they are slow growers.

If you collect or dive youll see that there are more brown corals than any other colour...You can pick any destination or dive / collection site...

There are a few sites where the coloured corals outnumber the drab brown one's...yet to see one. Collectors, exporter's, wholesalers & retailers know this and if you take a look at any random stock / price list of an exporter out in Bali or Fiji, the browns usually cost around $4-5 while the blues and orange's are around $11-20 on average...These are first pick prices at the exporters. If you cherry pick it range's from $28 to some crazy numbers...add shipping, CITES, Quarantine & packing costs and its all ++++

Sad but true. :)

[maynardjames]

i know export & everything isnt cheap but for 1 polyp 100+ is a little crazy. cocain is cheaper & far less addictive:)

[The Escaped Ape]

I really dislike the names, but I'll say one thing positive for the whole trend. It probably makes the captive-raised market a lot more attractive, perhaps encouraging aquaculturing in the process and reducing the strain a tad on the wild corals.

[Chris27]

It's just society dumb-ing it up like everything else in the world - remember when you had to be a smart person to operate a computer, manually turn on your car headlights when it was dark, or run a fish tank without a controller - Reefing is just following the same trend - not that it's a bad thing if it gets others interested - really I think it's just mildly annoying to those of us who actually possess the ability to read a scientific / Greek name and comprehend it....

[Jacwil]

Whether corals are named or not you will pay a premium price for the better coloured ones...more so if they are slow growers.

If you collect or dive youll see that there are more brown corals than any other colour...You can pick any destination or dive / collection site...

There are a few sites where the coloured corals outnumber the drab brown one's...yet to see one. Collectors, exporter's, wholesalers & retailers know this and if you take a look at any random stock / price list of an exporter out in Bali or Fiji, the browns usually cost around $4-5 while the blues and orange's are around $11-20 on average...These are first pick prices at the exporters. If you cherry pick it range's from $28 to some crazy numbers...add shipping, CITES, Quarantine & packing costs and its all ++++

Sad but true. :)


+1.....Flashier colored zoo's and other corals will always be more expensive. I agree the names are a bit silly and in most cases don't reflect the actual color or look of the z or p, but naming them does serve a purpose for identifying them.

As for the trends and prices, many things are like this, even out of this hobby. Flashy cars, clothes etc. I think one of the things that bother me is corals labeled as Limited Edition...LE, says who???? LOL

[dcombs44]

Love the ads that say, "Limited Edition, Tons Available!!"

:)

[VtheMaestro]

i dislike that people always seem to have an issue with what others are doing. If somebody wants to name their zoa's, let them. If you don't like it, don't buy named zoas or acknowledge people doing it. Everything that people collect and obsess over has a designer name beyond its scientific/technical name: car parts, sneakers, hand bags, watches, dogs, wine, plants, drugs, musical instruments. You can't beat them, you'd be better off joining them or giving up the fight.

[teesquare]

V-
So...what you are sayin' is that it bothers you - that it bothers us...is that right???:lol2:

[dcombs44]

V-
So...what you are sayin' is that it bothers you - that it bothers us...is that right???:lol2:

I think what he's saying is, "I don't like complainers, so I'll complain about it." :)

What a vicious cycle. :fun4:

[cabezon2469]

I just bought some pretty ones with green mouths, and some other ones with really green mouths out of the $5 scrapings bin at my LFS. I am going to call them George and love them and squeeze them.

[teesquare]

and pet them, and pet them......:lol2:

[stingythingy45]

i dislike that people always seem to have an issue with what others are doing. If somebody wants to name their zoa's, let them. If you don't like it, don't buy named zoas or acknowledge people doing it. Everything that people collect and obsess over has a designer name beyond its scientific/technical name: car parts, sneakers, hand bags, watches, dogs, wine, plants, drugs, musical instruments. You can't beat them, you'd be better off joining them or giving up the fight.

The problem is this.
Say someone buys a frag thinking it's a "limited edition"such and such.
Then that frag grows and they sell frags in turn under that name.
Then somebody say"Wait,that isn't what you're calling it".After so many frags have been sold to fellow hobbyist under that name.
Honestly the guy that sold the frags thought he had the real McCoy.
It can get pretty ugly sometimes.
I bet it was wonderful when the hobby first started and corals were sold more for color and"Wow" factor instead of some dude's name on it.

[dcombs44]

I guess for me, it goes back to the fact that I buy corals that I like, not because they are a status symbol.

If I like the looks, and the colors, and I think it's reasonably priced, I'll buy it, if I don't, I won't. Don't really care if it's super rare or limited edition.

[lbaldrey]

I agree that naming them is a plus if for the purpose of identifying them...given the morphs of zoas that area out there...

100$ a polyp...OMG!

[100%hydrophylic]

hahaha, on the page linked to a while back some are named "ultra fire and ice." i would like to know what deems these zoas so ultra????? arent my zoas just as ultra as yours?? i bet my generic green zoas can beat up your ultra fire and ice zoas any day of the week!

[90greefman]

I hope this designer name stuff doesn't cross over anymore than it already has to sps. We as reefers are already not considered normal by folks outside the hobby. Could you imagine if some of dogs had the name zoa's have? When is this going to stop? Maybe it will stop when people start buying stuff because it looks cool instead of the naming.

What kind of Angel is it?

[goldmaniac]

I like the names.

It helps us know what others are talking about.

Anyone have a problem with calling them Eagle Eyes? Or how about those Radioactive Dragon Eyes? Probably not. That's because there isn't a huge price tag associated with them; you can easily find them for $1/polyp. And we (with a little bit of Google'ing) all know what each other is talking about.

People paying huge sums of money for named 'designer' zoas is a COMPLETELY different issue. think it through, and you'll realize it's true.

\purple hornets are SOOOO 2009 ... like, oh mah g0d

[teesquare]

it's just society dumb-ing it up like everything else in the world - remember when you had to be a smart person to operate a computer, manually turn on your car headlights when it was dark, or run a fish tank without a controller - reefing is just following the same trend - not that it's a bad thing if it gets others interested - really i think it's just mildly annoying to those of us who actually possess the ability to read a scientific / greek name and comprehend it....

+ 1,2045,786!!!!!!!!!! Amen and amen!!!

[SaltwaterAdict]

LOL the more expensive ones are usually the nicer looking ones! People have these names for identifying different ones. Just like people have different names. So say u were talking to me over the phone about trading corals n I was looking for a specific zoa, am I going to classify them as red, green, blue, orange zoas..NO, of course not! :frog:

[teesquare]

No - of couse not!

Because it would be far beyond the many of us to think about a NAMING FORMAT!!!!!:lmao: After all, ego, shock value, and "cool" are way more important - right???:fun5:

[Levito]

Perfect example: http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/showthread.php?p=778767#post778767

[thetonyage]

It's just society dumb-ing it up like everything else in the world - remember when you had to be a smart person to operate a computer, manually turn on your car headlights when it was dark, or run a fish tank without a controller - Reefing is just following the same trend - not that it's a bad thing if it gets others interested - really I think it's just mildly annoying to those of us who actually possess the ability to read a scientific / Greek name and comprehend it....

+1, but i think society is whats being dumbed up; everybody bought an ipod, every body voted for obama (not trying to start a political dispute, just stating a fad), and everybody paid more for a few polyps of "eagle eyed candy cane rasta zoos" than their ipods.

[dogstar74]

Does anyone really know what "the armor of God" really looks like?

I also have never seen a purple person and I think I'd be terrified that that poor person was being eaten. At least I would try to save even the purple person. The poor purple person.

Tubs was a black guy on Miami Vice. I don't know why they thought he was blue. Perhaps their television wasn't color balanced. Poor guy with the television.

Dragons don't really exhist, so we really have no idea what their eye's looked like now do we. Let's don't be silly.

[sruiz]

I have to agree here that some people could care less on the look and pay for the name. I had a nice rock of zoos over 500 polyps for sale with the picture. I had some offers but no one really interested in purchasing them, instead I got a bunch of emails asking "whats the name" so I finally decided to go to zoo id and find the name. Next day I posted the name and they sold in 1 day... go figure :thumbsup:

[djneedledamage]

What kind of Angel is it?


Pomacanthus imperator or imperator angel. Not Crazin Maizen or anything else Silly like the Zoa names

[ERICinFL]

You all have to remember a few important things. The zoas that get names are "Rare", "Premium", or "Limited" and being such, they require a much higher price. The "Rare" corals are obviously found in a very select, geographic location and will only grow appropriately on a special rock or something. The "Premium" corals are certainly top notch and even if you have the same thing in your tank, it's not as colorful or as cool looking as what is being sold. Oooo... the "Limited" are certainly the most valuable. If you don't pay upwards of $50 a polyp for them now, you may miss your chance at owning them, before they're locked away in the Disney Vault for 8-10 years. These poor, old wholesalers are paying out the nose for them and someone took 10-15 minutes of their precious time to throw darts at a bunch of words to make up the name. All these people MUST be compensated for their time, or the entire saltwater hobby as we know it, will collapse, thus causing a vacuum that will surely be filled by shady miscreants, selling "no name" corals at low low prices. I dare to fathom a world like that.

[VtheMaestro]

V-
So...what you are sayin' is that it bothers you - that it bothers us...is that right???:lol2:

pretty much. lol
I think what he's saying is, "I don't like complainers, so I'll complain about it." :)

What a vicious cycle. :fun4:

vicious, indeed :sad1:

[karaandnick]

Ironically enough, this was posted on my club site today.

Scroll over the pictures for names. :)

http://neptunescove.net/Zoas_page.php

That's funny I shop at that place all the time.

[Junros]

Hey, I have been smiling while reading this thread =P
I really dont understand why you arent saying the scientific names on some corals, esp zoas...
And then some people put really "stupid" names on them?? Why?
Anyway, just saying what i think..

[The Escaped Ape]

The different color morphs aren't different species, so using the Latin name won't distinguish between them. I think naming has some utility and helps create a market for captive-raised coral. On the other hand, it's incredibly naff. Hey, it's swings and roundabouts. You can't please everyone all the time.

[redfishsc]

For the record, I tolerate some of the names of the well-established varieites, like dragon eyes and such. Just b/c when I say "I have some dragon eyes and eagle eyes for sale" on a local club forum, folks know what I am talking about.



But on the other hand I get sick seeing epic names for, honestly, a small colony things that look like colorful push-pins. "Ultra Sunburst Lucifer Lip PowderPuffs" or whatever. If they're orange and green, just call them orange and green!.


I sure wish we could get Mad Max from the Johnboy and Billy show to do a rant on this. "Quit naming your colorful jell-o blobs things that attract 10 year olds and stop rurnin' my life!".

[dread240]

I whole heartedly endorse this thread. As a newcomer to reef tanks (well I've been researching 2 years and working on it for quite a bit) I've frankly gotten annoyed at some of the names on these things. I literally want to know if it's purple, blue, teal or what, and that's about it.

[cubsFAN]

+1, but i think society is whats being dumbed up; everybody bought an ipod, every body voted for obama (not trying to start a political dispute, just stating a fad), and everybody paid more for a few polyps of "eagle eyed candy cane rasta zoos" than their ipods.

Sorry, cant let it slide. Everybody bought an ipod because it is an amazing revolutionary product. If voting for obama was a fad, then every president getting voted into office is a fad. That's what happens. People go out and try to win votes. If they can start a "fad" then they win. I've never paid an inflated price for any silly name(though I have bought some tank raised ora stylo I wanted and I got some free AOG's and Tubbs from a friend). seriously?:uzi:

[cubsFAN]

BTW folks, we live in America. Money talks, supply and demand, and there's a sucker born every day. yada yada yada.

[cubsFAN]

I don't like it either, but it's no surprise. I like that these things have common names. Fish have simple names. I don't feels like saying zebrasoma flavensce (sp?). I am also a big fan of using the greek, but in some situations it isn't enough.

[bluestarfish]

When I first got into sw and corals I had an lfs employee pull me to the side trying to sell me some of his zoas instead of what was in the store. I swear I thought he was trying to sell me drugs at first with all the crazy names. It still reminds me of a bunch of drug dealers when I hear people goin on about how they'll hook you up with this and that.lol so who wants to buy my premium pink plasma pulses.

[redfishsc]

^^Ya got that right!

[ERICinFL]

I couldn't tell you what any of the named corals look like. I can tell you what an orange center with blue skirt polyp looks like. It looks like and orange centered polyp with a blue skirt. If I'm going to sell something like that, I'll post a pic. If I'm going to buy something like that, I'll want to see a pic. If I like, I buy, if no pic or I don't like it, I won't buy it. If you're going to bend me over the table on price, I won't buy it either. I try to keep it simple. :D

[lbaldrey]

I don't like it either, but it's no surprise. I like that these things have common names. Fish have simple names. I don't feels like saying zebrasoma flavensce (sp?).

++++:thumbsup:

[Jason S]

I just saw a Baboon Butt Chalice for sale on here..... That is a visual I want in my tank....

[noahm]

I want to know how many who hate the names have turned around and sold named designer frags as 'green with yellow skirt' so as to break the cycle... if it wasn't about the money, we would all love the names. they are quite colorful to say the least.

[ashtroid]

I am a big zoa collector i love them not for there names though for there patterns and colors but it just so happens to be that the ones i like have cool names lol........

[ashtroid]

i don't like it either, but it's no surprise. I like that these things have common names. Fish have simple names. I don't feels like saying zebrasoma flavensce (sp?). I am also a big fan of using the greek, but in some situations it isn't enough.

i hear you on the fish thing especially the ancantharus family and the zebrasoma family crazyness

[ERICinFL]

I want to know how many who hate the names have turned around and sold named designer frags as 'green with yellow skirt' so as to break the cycle... if it wasn't about the money, we would all love the names. they are quite colorful to say the least.

:wavehand: I sell my pink and lavender zoas for 50 cents a polyp. Some of the others I might charge a buck a polyp for, depending on how fast they grow. I'll usually charge that much, up to 10 polyps, then the price goes down (per polyp) from there. I don't know what they were called originally, but the guy I bought them from sold them to me for the same price. I don't know if it was a common name or if he just made it up. I think he called them, "Cotton Candy", or something along those lines.

[ChadTheSpike]

I want to know how many who hate the names have turned around and sold named designer frags as 'green with yellow skirt' so as to break the cycle... if it wasn't about the money, we would all love the names. they are quite colorful to say the least.

I have... Unfortunately, I have found that the local growth rate isnt fast enough to break a fad that is more national than not. I did just trade some stuff for about 10 polyps os a usually hyped purple with yellow ring variety that I plan on selling for $1-2 per polyp as it grows out. The name thing is silly to me, price should reflect rarity and growth rate, not the creation of a fad.

[Ninjapotamus]

If i ever got my own orig frag of some nice zoo's I would make a point of it to give them the worst name possible.

Hannah Montaniums or something like that.

[khaosinc]

I have enough trouble remembering the common names of some of my fish, let alone my corals.

I do like purple ones though

[heidi.i]

Thanks for the laugh!!

[XSharkboyX]

Anyone who defends designer LE tiny named frags has something to gain from them. As it has been proven already, the everyday reefers hate this naming of corals to make it "easier" and raise the prices. Don't try to give me the supply and demand garbage.... That is just insulting on our intelligence level to think you could pull that argument off... Instead call it like it is hype and greed.

[MUCHO REEF]

It's just society dumb-ing it up like everything else in the world - remember when you had to be a smart person to operate a computer, manually turn on your car headlights when it was dark, or run a fish tank without a controller - Reefing is just following the same trend - not that it's a bad thing if it gets others interested - really I think it's just mildly annoying to those of us who actually possess the ability to read a scientific / Greek name and comprehend it....

Agreed, 1,000%

[MUCHO REEF]

I have to agree here that some people could care less on the look and pay for the name. I had a nice rock of zoos over 500 polyps for sale with the picture. I had some offers but no one really interested in purchasing them, instead I got a bunch of emails asking "whats the name" so I finally decided to go to zoo id and find the name. Next day I posted the name and they sold in 1 day... go figure :thumbsup:



It's sad, but you are 100 % correct and I have heard this from so many vendors, sellers and LFS. They are not buying the coral, they are buying the name. Most often, it is someone who came into the hobby after 2005 who have bought into this naming or someone who is looking to buy and then turn a profit overnight. I've personally own thousands of zoas and palys and don't know the names of any of them. These prices have lead to this new mentality of fragging frags. Why would you frag a just received 4 polyp frag? For money, that's why. To turn around and risk the mortality of a perfectly healthy frag for the sake of profits. It happenes every day of the week. More polyps have perished in the last 6 years due to this practice along with repeatitive, excessive and improper fragging along with the premature fragging I have already spoken of.

We have talked about these issues in the zoanthid forum for 5 years now. Note the date in the first link.



http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=913053&highlight=mucho+prices

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1422216&highlight=mucho+prices


The endless excuses being used to justify these sky high prices has gone beyond humorous. Every excuse given to justify these prices has been debunked. It has nothing at all to do with the economy, as it was reefers who started these names that also just happen to coincide with the price hikes. These prices have nothing to do with supply and demand, when you have something that grows and reproduces on its own.

I continue to hear, "well how are we to know what we are buying". And also, names are a must in the hobby today as other corals have names. I use to sell zoa frags all over the country back in the day. No one was concerned about names. Do you know why names have been so highly adopted? It's because of their value now. One needs to know they name so when their 3 polyp frag they paid $ 100 for, grows a single polyp, they can whack it off, attach it to a plug if it lives, and then sell it. You see, you need to have a name to increase the expeditous likelyhood of selling and to recoop said investment. If I'm never going to chop off every polyp in my tank, why do I need to know the name? "But Mucho, the hobby can not exist without names?". You're wrong, how did it survive before the advent of names? If as many people knew as much about basic reefkeeping as they do about names, the captive coral mortality rate would drop overnight.

"But Mooch, we need names to sell our zoas and palys". No you don't my friend. See link below and note the dates.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208268&highlight=mucho+reef

How did I do it? I sold from 2003 to 2005 all over the country, but stopped once I saw the gouging. Note my prices and the discriptions. How did I do it? Did you see anyone inquiring of a name, or LE, or lineage....no, we didn't do that back then. But reefers started naming them and calling everything rare, hard to find, newly discovered, new to the market, just discovered, in limited release by Junior Polyp Pimper II, only a few in existance and I have the official letter of authenticity from the ocean floor to prove it. This is called marketing and hype. Most of us know this, the sellers know this, it's the newbies and those who came into reefing after 2005 who aren't aware of this.

I'll say this and shut up. I spoke with a kid in college on the west coast last week, yes, a newbie age 21 and in college. He was having some issues with his polyps. When he told me how much he paid for a total of about 20 polyps on 7 different plugs, I almost fell out of my chair. Lets just say he was overcharged about$ 700. He had spent all of his birthday money and some savings on 20 polyps, all of which later died. He was told they were ultra rare and hard to find. They were photographed under predominant LED super blues and then photoshopped to the hilt. He was sold some of the most common polyps on the market which were around 15 years ago. We use to give those types of zoas away as no one would even pay for them. In tears, the kid tore down his tank that night. He was lied to and taken to the bank. They told him every name of every polyp that died and didn't want to talk with him when they took a nose dive.

This is what reefing has become. All because of names and the sky high price tag attached to a polyp the diameter of an eraser, I said an eraser !!!!!

When will it end? A polyp the diameter of a pencil which grows like crazy in optimal conditions which has always sold for 50 cents to $ 2 a polyp, can now be sold for ridiculous amounts of money and we call it free enterprise.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=921883&highlight=mucho+prices


Reefing.......has been replaced.........with Retailing.:thumbdown


Mucho Reef

[dixiedog]

There's a zillion varieties; you gotta call them SOMETHING. Anyone who pays ridiculous prices based on names deserves to be separated from their money.

The photoshop thing is another issue. People who do that deserve to be separated from their genitals.

[MUCHO REEF]

There's a zillion varieties; you gotta call them SOMETHING. Anyone who pays ridiculous prices based on names deserves to be separated from their money.

The photoshop thing is another issue. People who do that deserve to be separated from their genitals.


But I never called them anything but what they were. So how did I sell hundreds of frags all over the country to people who didn't even know me? And without a picture. Not a single picture !!!!

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208268&highlight=mucho+reef

Have to ask you a question. I'm not being a smart mouth or anything like that. Just want your opinion on somemthing.


What do you personally feel is more important.

1. Knowing the names of hundreds of zoanthids and playthoas.

or

2. Knowing the basic needs and requirements ( husbandry ) , to even sustain and keep these corals alive and thriving?

Mucho Reef

[dixiedog]

But I never called them anything but what they were.


But you did call them something. Point made!

Your second question makes no sense. Who said anyone needs to know hundreds of names?

Who cares about anything in this pointless thread? :lmao:

[MUCHO REEF]

But you did call them something. Point made!

Your second question makes no sense. Who said anyone needs to know hundreds of names?

Who cares about anything in this pointless thread? :lmao:


Sir, I didn't call them Mucho's blah blah blah. They didn't have any names attached to them. I sold them as Zoanthids and Palythoas and decribed them as such.

I didn't call them or label them with any name as you are seeing today.

I gave a price and the number of polyps. Years later I sent a picture or two, but I did it all without names. That is my point.

My second question makes and awful lot of sense. The problem I'm seeing is that more newer reefers know more names of zoas and palys and have very little knowledge of basic reefing to even keep them alive. That is my point. The cart has been placed before the horse. I know people who know every polyp name that has a name, yet they continue to crash tanks and kill polyps. My point is, which is more important, knowing the names or knowing how to provide proper captive care for them?

I don't think this thread is pointless by any means.


Mucho Reef

[XSharkboyX]

Threads like this are far from pointless.... I say kudos to the OP on this one for speaking out. Thats what needs to be done. The word needs to get out, that we are all fed up with this nonsence they call "Supply and Demand" or in actuality, if you reverse the order of letters "Greed and Hype"....
How many of you fell for that?

How many newbies fall for price gouging every single day, because they simply do not know?

"A sucker is born every min..."

That has got to be the worst joke in humanity... Is this what reefing has become? It sure seems like a joke to me...

"If they pay the price, they deserve to have their money taken away..."

No, that is just crazy... I dont see how anyone could wish that kind of downfall on another. There is no lesson that needs to be learned when joining this hobby. No one deserves to have their pocketbook raped just because they just set their first tank up...

My second question makes and awful lot of sense. The problem I'm seeing is that more newer reefers know more names of zoas and palys and have very little knowledge of basic reefing to even keep them alive. That is my point. The cart has been placed before the horse. I know people who know every polyp name that has a name, yet they continue to crash tanks and kill polyps. My point is, which is more important, knowing the names or knowing how to provide proper captive care for them? MUCHO REEF

Mucho makes a valuable point here yet again...

I cannot tell you how many threads in the zoa forum I have seen in the last few months that are titled "How come my frags arent growing?" / "How come my Purple Hornets are dying?" / "Why wont my 1 and 2 polyp frags I repeatedly keep buying live?" / "Whats the best way to set up a zoa frag tank?" / "What are these polyps worth?" / "Rate my new zoas/palys"...

All I want to do is respond "When is it going to end?" On every single occasion....

When a child gets out of control with his/her toys, the parents steps in and corrects the behavior... Or at least should if they are a good parent...

When are the "parents" going to step in here and correct the out of control behavior in this hobby? It's up to the seasoned reefers to speak out and educate the newbies in this hobby... Without this, things will never change. That is what threads like this are great for. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard newbies say "I never knew, thank you so much for opening my eyes..." :wavehand: Thats what I am here for.

Sometimes I too wish an angelfish would eat up all the designer named frags... At least it would get a full belly out of the deal... It would also keep a bunch of greedy hobbiest from murdering them. Best of all it would keep me from pressing the "nuke" button on the hobby... Sometimes simplicity is better. Maybe we should all start over...

[SIR PATRICK]

Anyone who defends designer LE tiny named frags has something to gain from them. As it has been proven already, the everyday reefers hate this naming of corals to make it "easier" and raise the prices. Don't try to give me the supply and demand garbage.... That is just insulting on our intelligence level to think you could pull that argument off... Instead call it like it is hype and greed.


Exactly. Well put. Couldnt have said it better myself.

[SIR PATRICK]

It's just society dumb-ing it up like everything else in the world - remember when you had to be a smart person to operate a computer, manually turn on your car headlights when it was dark, or run a fish tank without a controller - Reefing is just following the same trend - not that it's a bad thing if it gets others interested - really I think it's just mildly annoying to those of us who actually possess the ability to read a scientific / Greek name and comprehend it....


While we are on the subject of dumbing it up......

And to think reefers are falling for these insane polyp prices!

[goofball310]

I would like to give homage where homage is due, and in this case it is to mister Steve Tyree for starting this trend back in early 2000 with corals like the Limited Edition Steve Tyree Purple Monster. To this day it still has a waiting list until September of 2012 (are you kidding me).

[XSharkboyX]

I think Eric Borneman put it best when he spoke about Tyree corals in an article with Anthony Calfo...
I was honored to speak to the Los Angeles aquarium society, and was shown a member's tank. As I stared at the tank, the owner asked if I "saw anything special." I scrutinized the tank, feeling as though I were missing something. I looked left, and I looked right, and I looked in every nook and cranny in an instant, feeling like I was obviously obtuse in my observations of this tank. I was finally pointed toward a small fragment of an Acropora that was then explained to be one of the original and few remaining fragments of the famous "Steve Tyree Purple Monster." Without meaning offense, I must admit it wasn't terribly purple. In fact, I have some corals stuck in the back of my tank or lying on the sand with more color than this infamous specimen. I see corals with more color in most fish stores on a regular basis, yet this coral apparently commands a price of several hundred dollars for a centimeter or less. My impression is that a lot of people in this hobby have simply lost their minds!

You can read the full article here...
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/ebac/index.php

[goldmaniac]

There's nothing wrong with new reefers knowing the names of lots of different zoas/palys. It is the same as a new reefer knowing the names of the 30+ species of tangs. What's wrong with that?
knowing names and knowing husbandry are two completely separate points. I like having zoas named so that I can get a relevant reference of what they look like. it's the layperson's version of a scientific name.

If you don't like the high prices, sell cheap and buy cheap. Deals are out there; just like everything else in this world - prices range widely.

[Whisperer]

I suggest a special committee appointed to formulate an official method of naming corals specific to trade. Scientific names are good but corals, specially SPS, tend to change growth patterns and colors in captivity.
For example, for SPS: 1. Body structure (Staghorn[ST], tabling[TA], encrusting[EC]. 2. Predominant body color (pink [PK], blue[BL], brown [BR], purple [PU], Wite [W], etc. 3. polyp color 4. Mariculture or aquaculture (M or A). For example, a TA, BL, W, A, tenuis.
Ok, who's ranting next?

[MUCHO REEF]

I think Eric Borneman put it best when he spoke about Tyree corals in an article with Anthony Calfo...


You can read the full article here...
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/ebac/index.php



Great article.

[ERICinFL]

...He was lied to and taken to the bank. They told him every name of every polyp that died and didn't want to talk with him when they took a nose dive.

This is what reefing has become. All because of names and the sky high price tag attached to a polyp the diameter of an eraser, I said an eraser !!!!!

When will it end? A polyp the diameter of a pencil which grows like crazy in optimal conditions which has always sold for 50 cents to $ 2 a polyp, can now be sold for ridiculous amounts of money and we call it free enterprise.



Reefing.......has been replaced.........with Retailing.:thumbdown


Mucho Reef

Amen!

[redsman]

Agree 100% with djneedledamage. I could care less about the "stripper's nipple," "strawberry firecrotch," or "rainbow kiss" named zoas. All I want is to have some nice looking zoas in my tank and to not have to pay exorbitant amounts based off some cheesy name.


Your post cracked me up.

[SIR PATRICK]

^ Cracked me up too!

All I want is to have some nice looking zoas in my tank and to not have to pay exorbitant amounts based off some cheesy name, too.

Not to mention be able to grow them!!! I recall when this is what the hobby was all about, as do many.

Trying to find them is getting easier these days though.

[Jeff000]

I have to admit, I have a tank full of "designer" sps. And a bunch of disigner zoas.

I paid what I think is fair. I also have a 6x6" colony of several random zoa's that is one of my favorite.

I do have no name sps too though. I just buy what I like, and more often then not it has a designer name to it.
I really want some blue and purple hornets, but really hard to find for a price I am willing to pay.

my prize sps is a softball sized pink birdsnest, I just love it.



My bigger problem is sps colonies seem to be anything larger then 2". and a zoa colony is anything with more then 10 heads.
Should be a baseball sized sps, at least. And a at least 4" diameter for zoas.