How do you assist a dyeing fish?

[Vegas.]

My Firefish recently jumped while I was cleaning the glass. He went unnoticed for 2 maybe 3 minutes. I carefully placed him back into the tank and seemed ok, the next day his health degraded by the hour.

I ended up placing him in to a bag of ice water and he stopped breathing within 5 seconds, then came the traditional "Flush".

So how do you do it?

Before anyone comments on "you should have placed a cover on your tank".
I know all about fire fish jumping I had him for 2 years and it was never a issue.

[crazylegs]

I do the freezer thing too. Except I place it in a cup or bag of aquarium water, then into the freezer. I hope it slowly lowers the body temp until.. well, you know. I feel it might be a little better than the initial shock of ice water, but either way it's quick i guess. Then there's always the fast, hard, bump on the head thing.

[uhuru]

Freezing is not a good way to kill a fish. First ice crystals form on the skin and tissues which is painful (if fish can feel pain - since we don't know we should assume that they can).

Get some finquel (http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+12271&pcatid=12271) from DFS. A concentration of 500 mg/L should do the job. After the fish stops breathing leave it in there for another 10 minutes, then if you want you can freeze it.

I'm not sure if finquel is buffered, if not buffer it with sodium bicarbonate because it's acidic by itself.

[reefWW96]

i have heard to sever the spinal column because it takes pain away and kills it quickly.
i tried it on my kole tang who was dying from ick and he died the second i did it.

[Flazky]

hmm I find that just crushing it with your fingers kills it quickest...and then rip it into pieces to feed corals.....

[jasonrp104]

These threads almost always turn into an argument. My advice would be to do whatever is the fastest and then tell nobody what you did

[uhuru]

There's really nothing to argue. You can go with science or you can go with non-scientific opinions. It's really a personal decision since no one is going to come after you over how you kill a fish.

[uhuru]

i have heard to sever the spinal column because it takes pain away and kills it quickly.
i tried it on my kole tang who was dying from ick and he died the second i did it.

An example of the difference between science and opinion. Fish, reptiles and amphibians can maintain consciousness after the spinal cord is severed.

From the American Veterinary Medical Association:
"It has been assumed that stopping
blood supply to the brain by decapitation causes rapid
loss of consciousness. Because the central nervous system of reptiles,
fish, and amphibians is tolerant to
hypoxic and hypotensive conditions, decapitation must
be followed by pithing."

[Vegas.]

Thanks for the info uhuru, Finquel seems like the most humane way to go but it's kind of pricy and for me fish don't die very often, I'm wondering what the shelf life of it is? I did a little research and Clove Oil came up, anyone ever used that?

[Engloid]

I would imagine that the fish has died long before its skin temperature gets so cold that ice crystals form on it.

[GhostCon1]

hmm I find that just crushing it with your fingers kills it quickest...and then rip it into pieces to feed corals.....

:thumbdown

[lisafoster]

This is good advice very touchy subject


These threads almost always turn into an argument. My advice would be to do whatever is the fastest and then tell nobody what you did

[dread240]

when I was a newbie I did the terrible thing of leaving it to the hermit crabs :-\

at the time it seemed like that 'should at least let them have a snack' type deal... but now I know it's way off

[DeepSeaHunter]

if i see a fish dying in my tank or anything for that matter i usually just net it out and toss it in the front garden. i know it sounds ruthless, but the birds in my front yard eat it right up. i love my fish, but i don't love my dying fish. i do everything possible to keep them happy, but i get angry if something jumps out of my tank even if it's in their nature, and so when that happens i can't care anymore, so i just toss it into the garden.

[jd474]

MS-222 (finquel). Available through aquatic eco systems and DFS.

[GhostCon1]

if i see a fish dying in my tank or anything for that matter i usually just net it out and toss it in the front garden. i know it sounds ruthless, but the birds in my front yard eat it right up. i love my fish, but i don't love my dying fish. i do everything possible to keep them happy, but i get angry if something jumps out of my tank even if it's in their nature, and so when that happens i can't care anymore, so i just toss it into the garden.

Um... get a cover

[twiggyb]

The clove oil is used to anesthetize the fish, but you have to know how much to use. If you do, IMO that would be the best method that way it just goes to sleep and never wales up. I know when I got my wisdom teeth cut out, I wouldn't have known if I stopped breathing, all I know is the next thing I was laying in a different room wondering where I was

[uhuru]

Thanks for the info uhuru, Finquel seems like the most humane way to go but it's kind of pricy and for me fish don't die very often, I'm wondering what the shelf life of it is? I did a little research and Clove Oil came up, anyone ever used that?

You can buy MS222 (the active compound used in finquel) by the gram ($7.95) in powder form here:

http://www.wchemical.com/TRICAINE-S-MS-222-P43C7.aspx

Shelf life is 3 yrs.

[bleedfire]

hmm I find that just crushing it with your fingers kills it quickest...and then rip it into pieces to feed corals.....

Its worst in the wild.

[dixiedog]

These threads almost always turn into an argument. My advice would be to do whatever is the fastest and then tell nobody what you did


:thumbsup:

You're a wise man.

[billsreef]

MS-222 (finquel). Available through aquatic eco systems and DFS.

An over dose of MS-222 is the approved method for use in research labs that need to adhere to strict animal welfare protocols.

[Vegas.]

Thank you uhuru and Bill, I'll pick up some ms-222 and hopefully never have to use it.

[cabezon2469]

I've used boiling water rather than cold water. It looked like it was almost instantaneous.

[dread240]

I've used boiling water rather than cold water. It looked like it was almost instantaneous.

did you add any seasoning or vegetable extract?

[pwoller]

I've used the Vodka method and it seemed to work fine.

[troyman]

how can somthing you watch and take care of in your tank and if it gets sick by probaly no fault of its own be just thrown away

[Vegas.]

how can somthing you watch and take care of in your tank and if it gets sick by probaly no fault of its own be just thrown away

What's your recommendation then?

[DeepSeaHunter]

that is what i'm saying, if you can't care for it any longer, then you must dispose of it, but to buy extra things to kill it or to boil it and stuff seems ridiculous. boiling, freezing it, all those things hurt me more then just flushing it. at least if i flush it, it left my hands while it was still alive.

[billsreef]

So killing a fish via torturous cellular disruption of plunging a SW fish into FW is less ridiculous than other methods?

BTW running a university wet lab I get to euthanize fish in rather large numbers at the end of the growing portion of some experiments. In the course of the hobby and fishing, I've used methods such as freezing and severing the spinal cord with a fillet knife. IME, the overdose of anesthetic (MS-222) is by far the quickest and most humane method I've ever seen or used.

[Gawain1974]

I agree that MS-222 is the most humane, but most people don't have that on hand. Back in my LFS days, people used to call the store and ask for advice on how to do this, and I always gave them a few options so they could choose what they were most comfortable with. I always recommended decapitation, followed by the freezer method for those who were squeamish. Honestly, as long as it's quick, I don't really care. I had one lady who swore by the garbage disposal method.

Personally, I'm very squeamish, so I used the freezing method, or put the fish in a bag and whacked it on the cement floor (with enough force, it's quite instantaneous). If the fish was small, I fed it to the tank of large oscars who inhaled them immediately.

[cabezon2469]

did you add any seasoning or vegetable extract?

mmmm, that's a mighty fine gumbo.

how can somthing you watch and take care of in your tank and if it gets sick by probaly no fault of its own be just thrown away

well, IMHO as a responsable fishkeeper, it is my duty to minimize the suffing for those whom I have been allowed the privelige to care for. If I see a fish that is on its last legs (or fin), I take it out of the tank and ease it on its journey. OTOH, it is a fish and I do not attach to it. If it were my son it would be a much more excruciating decision.

that is what i'm saying, if you can't care for it any longer, then you must dispose of it, but to buy extra things to kill it or to boil it and stuff seems ridiculous. boiling, freezing it, all those things hurt me more then just flushing it. at least if i flush it, it left my hands while it was still alive.

It may hurt you more, but it hurts the fish a whole lot less than adding to its misery with chlorine burn, osmotic bursting and fecal poisoning. To care for a fish life is to care for a fish death.

[gweston]

I think I should track down some MS-222. Sounds like it is quick, effective, and as painless as possible. Yeah, they may just be fish.. but I'll leave the other methods for dealing with dead/dying fish to Monty Python... such as slapping a man in a suit across the face repeatedly with one.

[Inklinkerman]

Knife to spinal cord. Very quick.

[dcforester1]

Garbage disposal? Just a joke, and I know a sick on. I use the freezer, and then flush method.

[paal]

Knife. Quick and easy.
Hopefully, the only part that will stress the fish is when I net it out of the tank.

[flying_dutchman]

+1 on MS-222 or clove oil.
but MS-222 is a known carcinogenic...
For clove oil, 10 drops per gallon, once there is no visible voluntary muscle control, freeze or place in vodka, ethyl or isopropyl alcohol. From Matthew Wittenrich's breeder's guide.

[dcombs44]

that is what i'm saying, if you can't care for it any longer, then you must dispose of it, but to buy extra things to kill it or to boil it and stuff seems ridiculous. boiling, freezing it, all those things hurt me more then just flushing it. at least if i flush it, it left my hands while it was still alive.

So you're saying if my dog gets sick I should flush the dog? It would cause no less torture to the dog than it would your fish.

Humanely euthanize the fish just like you would your dog.

I don't care the method, just make it quick and as painless and stress free for the animal as possible.

[sobes94]

MS-222 then the flush

[Wzrdbear]

bag it, and bubble some co2 in the water ( i have co2 for the calcium reactor, i know not everyone has access to this method). This is a common anesthetic for fish. Then freeze and bury in the flowerbed.

[aquaph8]

I refuse to waist it. If it dies then it becomes food in most cases. My serpent star can handle most deaths pretty quick. If its a large fish a nice thump on the head works for me. And the circle of life goes on.

[tzhanks]

I've used the Vodka method and it seemed to work fine.

What is the vodka method? Do you just put them in straight vodka?

[expyman]

I think as long as you put yourself in its place you will figure out very quickly the most efficiently painless death.

[Freemind]

Why not a food processor? Fish dies instantly/painlessly. Then feed the pieces back to your tank as free food. Ever wonder what happens to all the baby male chicks at the egg processing plant? Grinder, instant death.

[billsreef]

I'm thinking this thread has run it's useful life and then some. Time to close it.