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View Full Version : Bag fell in tank during acclimation. Are they dead??


hops523
05/29/2010, 08:03 AM
So I got a couple peppermint shrimp for my 55 gallon yesterday to take care of some aiptasia. I was floating the bag and acclimating them how I usually do everything else. I opened the bag and folded the edges so the bag was open and I could pour a little water in at a time every few minutes. I walked away for a little and when I returned the bag had tipped over and the shrimp were no where to be found. They had only been acclimating for about 30 minutes. I haven't seen the shrimp since. What are the chances they are both dead? If they are, would it be ok for me to add livestock today or should I still wait a couple weeks? This ever happen to anyone else?
Thanks

fasteddie99
05/29/2010, 08:17 AM
They should be just fine. I've done the same thing with fish. Shrimp can be a little sensitive but again, they are prolly ok. They are more than likely just in hiding right now, may take a few days for them to show face.

twiggyb
05/29/2010, 08:24 AM
peppermints are very shy, when they learn when feeding time is and that there is no predators that will get them, they will come out more in the day. They are usually nocturnal creatures. Shine a flash light in at nighttime to try and find them. When I first got mine I didn't turn on the moonlights for about a week so they would feel comfortable in coming out and eating all the aptasia that was in the tank. I acclimated them like a fish and they are doing just fine, though one of my cleaner shrimp didn't acclimate quite as well and had to take it slower.

gokarter88
05/29/2010, 08:45 AM
They will be fine that has happened to me before with fish coral and shrimp. Feed them some rods food and they should come out if they are alive they love that stuff.

hops523
05/29/2010, 09:03 AM
Thanks for the quick replies. It's funny as soon as I posted this, I walked over to the tank and see one sitting under a rock, haha so at least one is still alive. There's just one more question I have. How much bioload can two peppermint shrimp put out? I was wondering if it would be ok to add a fish today.
Thanks again

rbredding
05/29/2010, 09:04 AM
nah.. don't worry about it.. as long as your temperature was within a couple degrees of the LFS temp and similar in salinity you'll be fine..

the other issue is that most LFS run a medical level of copper in their systems... but the 30 mins is more than enough time for that acclimation to take place...


usually, (not always) I don't even acclimate at all... my parameters are very close to the LFS where I purchase most of my corals and fish so I just dump them in there..


seems to be working fine.. I've never lost a fish to acclimation.. (I had an ICH breakout about 6 months ago that nearly wiped out my 30 gallon system, but that was due to a neighbor using tap water to topoff) I think, anyway..



FWIW.. I never consider any members of the CUC to factor into the bioload, because they are ditrius consumers.. effectively, you could have LOTS of shrimp in your tank without ever seeing any adverse effects.. (I've run as many as 8 in the little 30gallon, right now, I've got 15 in the 90)

TripleT
05/29/2010, 09:13 AM
Thanks for the quick replies. It's funny as soon as I posted this, I walked over to the tank and see one sitting under a rock, haha so at least one is still alive. There's just one more question I have. How much bioload can two peppermint shrimp put out? I was wondering if it would be ok to add a fish today.
Thanks again

How long has your tank been setup and running? Has it cycled yet?

What is in your tank now, and what fish are you planning on purchasing?

If your tank has cycled, and you are thinking of adding a small fish that won't eat your shrimps, or conflict with your future plans, it sounds okay.

Otherwise, plan out your ideal population, and give your peppermints a chance to relax in their new surroundings.

LiveAquaria.com is a convenient place to check compatibilities of livestock, minimum tank requirements, etc.

Fishamatank
05/29/2010, 09:23 AM
the other issue is that most LFS run a medical level of copper in their systems... but the 30 mins is more than enough time for that acclimation to take place...

seems to be working fine.. I've never lost a fish to acclimation.. (I had an ICH breakout about 6 months ago that nearly wiped out my 30 gallon system, but that was due to a neighbor using tap water to topoff) I think, anyway..


No, most fish stores do not run a medicinal level of copper in their tanks. It would kill all inverts.
You did not have an ich outbreak from tap water. You had ich in your system and unless you did something about it you still do.

rbredding
05/29/2010, 10:09 AM
No, most fish stores do not run a medicinal level of copper in their tanks. It would kill all inverts.
You did not have an ich outbreak from tap water. You had ich in your system and unless you did something about it you still do.


ok, i apologize.. the fish stores around HERE, run copper in their fish display tanks.. (I can give you phone numbers so you can call them if you like)

the invert/coral/LR tanks are typically on a separate system...


i had a blue tang in the tank that developed ICH and everyone else caught it...

since then, I ran a 25w UV on the system for a month straight 24hrs/day to clear it out of the system..

tell me, did you angrily pound the keyboard when you typed that reply or did you just have a condescending look on your face?

hops523
05/29/2010, 10:25 AM
The tanks been running for a while now, at least 4 or 5 months, maybe longer. I only have one fish in the tank now, which is a tomato clown.

Thanks guys thats good to hear, I think Im gonna take a trip to one of the fish stores I usually dont go to and pick up a couple fish, and maybe some more coral.

TripleT
05/29/2010, 10:28 AM
ok, i apologize.. the fish stores around HERE, run copper in their fish display tanks.. (I can give you phone numbers so you can call them if you like)

the invert/coral/LR tanks are typically on a separate system...


+1 on my LFS


i had a blue tang in the tank that developed ICH and everyone else caught it...

since then, I ran a 25w UV on the system for a month straight 24hrs/day to clear it out of the system..

UV is probably not as effective as you're hoping against ich.

Ich outbreaks are often a sign of stressors in the tank. How has your water quality been? And what kind of diet are you supplying? These go a long way towards preventing, or keeping ich in check.


tell me, did you angrily pound the keyboard when you typed that reply or did you just have a condescending look on your face?

I didn't read his post the same way. Might be a case of "lost in the translation".

Play nice everybody. ;)

goochesfish
05/29/2010, 10:58 AM
try not to get the water from the bag your livestock came in into your tank. I got a container (same one they use in fish stores to put fish in before bagging) and hang it on the side of the tank. then i turkey baste water in n out

muttley000
05/29/2010, 11:00 AM
usually, (not always) I don't even acclimate at all... my parameters are very close to the LFS where I purchase most of my corals and fish so I just dump them in there..


seems to be working fine.. I've never lost a fish to acclimation.. (I had an ICH breakout about 6 months ago that nearly wiped out my 30 gallon system, but that was due to a neighbor using tap water to topoff) I think, anyway..



You had ich because you did not quarantine and treat new arrivals before putting them in your main tank

rbredding
05/29/2010, 11:50 AM
You had ich because you did not quarantine and treat new arrivals before putting them in your main tank


I would have thought so also, however, it was 4 months after I added my last fish that the ICH broke out.. acclimation was NOT the issue.......

it was the blue tang.. they get ICH because it's tuesday

beefcake78
05/29/2010, 12:36 PM
+1 "they get ich because its Tuesday."

Fishamatank
05/29/2010, 01:58 PM
ok, i apologize.. the fish stores around HERE, run copper in their fish display tanks.. (I can give you phone numbers so you can call them if you like)

the invert/coral/LR tanks are typically on a separate system...

Bringing up the practices of a fish only system is a little OT since this thread is specifically about an invert purchase. My point was that there was no chance of getting copper in his system from this purchase. Point taken though, my post was not very clear.


i had a blue tang in the tank that developed ICH and everyone else caught it...
since then, I ran a 25w UV on the system for a month straight 24hrs/day to clear it out of the system..

Ich was in your system - stress brought it out, and it is still in your system. Running UV did not remove it from your system, the fish just fought it off. UV does little to nothing to eliminate ich, but that is a completely different subject. If your fish get stressed one or more will very likely show signs again.
I know I have ich in my system, but good husbandry keeps it at bay. If at some point it endangers the well being of the fish it will need to be treated and the tank will need to go fallow.
If proper QT / treatment practices are in place a fish will not get ich because it is Tuesday.
You should do some more research on what ich is, it's life cycle and effective treatments before giving advice.


tell me, did you angrily pound the keyboard when you typed that reply or did you just have a condescending look on your face?
Both, I have a scowl on my face and my keyboard is badly damaged from the angry pounding. :)

rbredding
05/29/2010, 08:29 PM
first of all, respectfully, you're wrong about ICH and UV... (secondly, blue tangs, or any tang in the Family Acanthuridae are especially susceptible, and can contract ICH when all safety precautions are adhered to)

Ich (or any other microorganism) is killed by UV because the UV breaks down the cell wall and then the DNA within the cells. It is by exactly the same process that you get a sunburn - exposure to UV, and in exactly the same way, you sunburn only when the duration and intensity is long enough - running out to the mailbox isn't enough, but lying on the beach in the middle of summer on a clear day for 6 hours would fry most of us to a crisp. Likewise, ICH has to be exposed to a certain amount of UV before it's killed.


The intensity of a UV system is measured in micro-watts of energy per second over a certain area (square centimeter): uWs/cm2. Marine ICH is in the genus Ichthyophthirus, and the tomites are the free-swimming stage of the ICH organism and the one that's susceptible to UV sterilization. Using the the amount of radiation to kill ICH in this stage is 336,000 uWs/cm2

The sterilizer that I used was rated for 45,000 uW/cm2 @ 1226gph

So... we can divide it out. To get 336,000 uWs/cm2 from 45,000 uWs/cm2, we'd need to slow down the water by (336 / 45) = 7.5. So take that 1226gph rating, divide it by 7.5, and we get 163gph for MY sterilizer to kill Marine ICH.

I used a 100gal/hr powerhead to cycle the tank water through the UV sterilizer. It was a 30gal tank so I changed the complete volume of water in the tank about 3 times in an hour. I ran the UV 24hrs a day for 30 days.

is there any guarantee that every tomite was killed? NO.
is there any guarantee that ICH won't affect fish while a UV is running? NO

but I DO think that I've increased my odds of providing a safe and disease free habitat for my little pets because I took the time to do the research and speak to the people who know what they are talking about..


now.. back to the original post...

glad that you're mind's at rest about your little buddies.. If that experience teaches you ANYTHING, it should teach you that you don't ALWAYS have to follow the "industry standard" with regards to acclimation of your fish, but of course, it is just like anything else, usually worth a little extra precaution..

julie180
05/30/2010, 08:10 AM
I use a cloth pin to clip the bag to the rim of my tank when acclimating.

TripleT
05/30/2010, 08:31 AM
A cheap QT setup has so many advantages, it's crazy not to have one.

Avoiding the introduction of new disease or parasites is just one advantage.

Allowing a new fish to acclimate to new surroundings and food is another. This alone can make the difference between life and death for new livestock.

If you do not have a QT setup already, and want to take the next step in the hobby, check out some of the following links on quarantine tanks:

http://www.google.com/search?q=quarantine+tank&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

A minimal setup will cost under $100, and pay for itself multiple times over.

jchase1970
05/30/2010, 09:05 AM
Ich is not completely killed by UV, Only the free floating ICH that might spread from fish to fish is killed by UV and that is if it goes though the UV. In my tank only about 1/5 the water flows though the UV because the UV has flow limits. So if only water born ICH is killed all the ICH that lives on the fish is safe from the UV.

SO a UV light only controls ICH, it does not eliminate it from a tank. A fish based treatment is what is needed to kill the ICH that lives on the fish that already have it.

rbredding
05/30/2010, 09:09 PM
Ich is not completely killed by UV, Only the free floating ICH that might spread from fish to fish is killed by UV and that is if it goes though the UV. In my tank only about 1/5 the water flows though the UV because the UV has flow limits. So if only water born ICH is killed all the ICH that lives on the fish is safe from the UV.

SO a UV light only controls ICH, it does not eliminate it from a tank. A fish based treatment is what is needed to kill the ICH that lives on the fish that already have it.

in my case.. all fish with ICH died.. so in my case, the only ich I needed to target was that in the water..

Fishamatank
05/30/2010, 09:28 PM
You really do not understand what ich is and it's life cycle if you think you eliminated ich from a tank containing fish by using UV regardless of fish showing symptoms.

muttley000
05/31/2010, 06:58 AM
in my case.. all fish with ICH died.. so in my case, the only ich I needed to target was that in the water..

Will only work if all fish in the system died and you allow the tank to run fallow for 6 weeks

rbredding
05/31/2010, 08:43 AM
Will only work if all fish in the system died and you allow the tank to run fallow for 6 weeks

check (finally someone actually READ what I posted to begin with)