Airstone to raise pH?

[jimrawr]

Having low pH problems due to my calcium reactor, and also being sumpless. I am thinking that maybe an airstone would help out? What do you guys think? I could essentially run one permanently behind the rock work so its not very visible.

[HippieSmell]

I think an air stone might actually lower the pH.

[oscar.millan]

HippieSmell - Sorry to disagree, but I don't think an air stone would lover the Ph. Any reason why you believe that? I'm open to discussion.

Typically an air stone would work, since it allows excess CO2 to be blown off. I have personally experienced this myself in one of my fish tanks. Better aeration made a significant difference in Ph. I would give it a shot for sure.

Quick note, read one of Randy's articles on how to solve low Ph problems, and aeration/fresh outside air is on it.

[HippieSmell]

You're right, I was thinking of ORP. At least on my tank the ORP drops when the skimmer is on, but I think ORP has some sort of inverse relationship to pH, so it would make sense that it would drop if pH goes up.

[myaerica]

An airstone would lower ph. You could use kalk in your ato that would raise your ph.

[TheH]

An airstone will typically raise pH if you are below 8.4 and lower pH if you are higher than 8.4.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The answer depends on whether your tank has more CO2 than it would at equilibrium with the room air and your tank alkalinity level, or less. Both cases exist in reef aquaria.

If you have driven up the pH by using CO2 (say, with limewater or by photosynthesis), then aeration can drive down the pH. If you have driven down the pH (say, by respiration at night or with a CaCO3/CO2 reactor) then aeration can raise the pH.

Also, room air often has more CO2 than outside air, so that impacts the results. :)


These have more:


Low pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

High pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/index.htm

[Uncle Salty 05]

One huge drawback to adding an airstone is salt creep.

[TheH]

True but this can be mitigated. For example, I use an airstone in my sump which is 9" water level in a 18" container so the salt spray doesn't get things messy.

[Allmost]

isnt an air stone too small to make a difference ?
my skimmer didnt work fro like 2 days

my PH increased.

so I placed a Airstone in the sump and no change
changed the skimmer pump and boom, back to 8.3 !

also, isnt it the surface agitation that promotes gas exchange ? if so, a power head pointed towards the surface would work better right ? (drawback would be heat added)

[TheH]

Depends on the power of the airpump, I would assume.

Conceptually, I don't see how a surface pointed powerhead could match an air-pump with air-stone. I think the goal here is to maximize the amount of water directly exposed to air.

[Aquarist007]

isnt an air stone too small to make a difference ?
my skimmer didnt work fro like 2 days

my PH increased.

so I placed a Airstone in the sump and no change
changed the skimmer pump and boom, back to 8.3 !

also, isnt it the surface agitation that promotes gas exchange ? if so, a power head pointed towards the surface would work better right ? (drawback would be heat added)

The surface of your tank is the key area where gas exchange occurs. You should keep the surface really churning to help gas exchange. Also the suface area should not be covered with glass plates etc as that hinders gas exhange

A skimmer is also where gas exhange can occur. Cranking up the skimmer or venting the air hose to the outside can increase the pH

Opening a window in the fish room will also raise the pH

finally a refugium with cheato macro will also raise the pH indirectly through photosynthesis. If the lights are run at night in reverse to the main lighting then it will decrease the normal nocturnal dip in pH

Using a airstone can't hurt anything but I would suggest you try some of the other more efficient ways of raising the pH first.

[rpjaws74]

capn hylinur, are u saying that a window next to the aquarium has the potential to raise your aquariums ph? because im battleling high ph and dont know how to lower it.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

An open window will help drive the pH up or down to the level that is appropriate for the outside CO2 level and the alkalinity. It will never make the pH too high unless the alkalinity is too high (well above 11 dKH or 4 meq/L)). That equilibrium falls along this line:


http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/images/Figure2sm.jpg

This has more:

Low pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

High pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/index.htm

[rpjaws74]

Thanks Mr. Randy Holmes, I think the more I keep reading the more complicated this hobby is getting. But one more question if u dont mind. I have a 500 fish only system with my nitrates at 20 ppm I heard about dosing vodka. What would you recommend? and can I keep dosing after I lower it with no ill effect?

[Agu]

Having low pH problems due to my calcium reactor, and also being sumpless.

What problems exactly are you having due to low pH. Do your corals fail to thrive? Not to be cynical but is this a chemistry problem or a biology problem? I've been through the same issue where tests indicated low pH, but my corals didn't seem to care.

[TheH]

While there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that low pH in the upper 7 range does not stop corals from growing, my understanding is that a higher pH (in the lower 8 range) makes the abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate, and therefore perhaps the biotic precipitation of calcium carbonate, easier.

[Aquarist007]

Thanks Mr. Randy Holmes, I think the more I keep reading the more complicated this hobby is getting. But one more question if u dont mind. I have a 500 fish only system with my nitrates at 20 ppm I heard about dosing vodka. What would you recommend? and can I keep dosing after I lower it with no ill effect?

In a fish only system nitrates at 20ppm is fine. IMO you do not need to dose vodka.
Your system need not be that complicated to maintain. Weekly or bimonthly water changes should be all you need to worry about.

[aquaph8]

Randy I could be come your apprentice and you could tutor me all day everyday and over half the stuff you know would still go over my head. Luckily I understand enough of your answers to still learn something though. So for that I thank you.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

:lol:

You're welcome and thanks. :)

. But one more question if u dont mind. I have a 500 fish only system with my nitrates at 20 ppm I heard about dosing vodka. What would you recommend? and can I keep dosing after I lower it with no ill effect?

I agree that 20 ppm nitrate is OK for a fish only, but if you want to lower it, there are many ways, and vodka might not be most suitable depending on what other husbandry techniques you use (skimming, etc). Vodka will also lower pH a bit when used, if that is already a problem. I use skimming, vinegar plus a bit of vodka, macroalgae growth in several refugia, and GAC.

These have more on what methods can work:

Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm

[rpjaws74]

Thank you guys Mr. Randy and Capn, I appreciate your responses.But to pick at you guys brain a little more if u dont mind. I am having a problem with high ph as well my pinpoint gives me a reading of 8.55 I know its not for overdosing anything because I never really do. I did have glass lids but only 2 of 3. I also dont have intense lighting. I have a big chiller so temperature is pretty consistant at 77 n 79. My tanks also sits next to a window and an air duct. I dosed vinegar but it gradually went back up so I want to get to the root. I started dosing vodka as of last night (25 ml is this to much?). Im also starting a regiment of dosing ESV two part along with magnessium. hoping to balance my ph. Do you see anything Im doing wrong or what might be causing my high ph. I would appreciate any suggestions Im out of my witts trying to figure it out. I noticed one of crosshatch triggers is not eating with the same enthusiasm as before. Would hate to him!

[Nate R]

Having low pH problems due to my calcium reactor, and also being sumpless. I am thinking that maybe an airstone would help out? What do you guys think? I could essentially run one permanently behind the rock work so its not very visible.

if you dont have a refugium to drip effluent in to, you may have to get creative but a good way to help gas exchange effluent and raise your ph of effluent by dripping it a tall glass container with an air stone in it.

This is how mine works effluent at 6.4 PH drips in to glass container w/ air stone and it raises to 7.44ph before entering the tank this will help raise Ph in the display. I also drip Kalk

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af50/nathen1984/IMG_2670.jpg

picture showing ph probe in glass container w/ air stone
http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af50/nathen1984/IMG_2671.jpg