Whitecap Goby (Lotilia graciliosa)

[twelvejewelz]

I need this fish! Does anyone own one? Does anyone know of a place that sells one so i can obtain one? If you own one please post pics i would love to see.Im going to be upgrading my 10gallon nano to a 20 gallon sps/rare zoa tank. I want to put a rare fish collection in it as well. Its going to consist of:

1 Whitecap Goby (Lotilia graciliosa) or pair if thats at all possible
1 Centropyge resplendens or 1 Japanese Angelfish Centropyge interruptus
2 Rare ORA clownfish(pair not sure which yet)mabe Amphiprion thiellei if can find them

[Chelsey]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is NO way a Centropyge interrupta will fit in a 20 gallon tank unless it's a juvi, which is even more difficult to find than an adult.

Your best bet might be to stick with the rare ORA clownfish and keep your eyes open for the goby on Diver's Den, Blue Zoo, or someplace similar :)

[twelvejewelz]

yea your probably right about the angel. but Centropyge resplendens would be good. This stock list still isnt set in stone but the one thing i do know is i definitely want the Whitecap goby! That fish looks amazing!

[tcmfish]

Don't know if I have ever seen one of those gobies for sale in the US. Also C. resplendens is illegal to collect.

But hey we can all dream, good luck.

[twelvejewelz]

Don't know if I have ever seen one of those gobies for sale in the US. Also C. resplendens is illegal to collect.

But hey we can all dream, good luck.

i know red list since 1996 but they have captive bred C.resplendens ;)

[JuliusJames]

anyone have a pic?

[jmaneyapanda]

i know red list since 1996 but they have captive bred C.resplendens ;)

Not anymore. RCT hasnt raised angels in years. Unless you find someone willing to part with theirs from RCT. Good luck with that too.

[twelvejewelz]

anyone have a pic?

Whitecap Goby (Lotilia graciliosa)

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/8026/whtcp.jpg (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/whtcp.jpg/)

[twelvejewelz]

Not anymore. RCT hasnt raised angels in years. Unless you find someone willing to part with theirs from RCT. Good luck with that too.

Please dont shoot down my dreams :( lol . Im on the hunt right now!! Does anyone know anything about the shipping of fish overseas? In other words if i had a fish shipped overseas would they have to hold it for a period at customs? What are the procedures here?I live in new york btw.

[michael_cb_125]

The C. interruptus will not work in a 20 gallon tank, it is the largest of the Centropyge angelfish.

The C.resplendens is not legal to collect and they are no longer being raised by RCT. Like Jeremy stated, good luck finding someone who wants to part with theirs.

The little goby is a fish that I have wanted for a long time and have never seen one in the US.

~Michael

[twelvejewelz]

The C. interruptus will not work in a 20 gallon tank, it is the largest of the Centropyge angelfish.

The C.resplendens is not legal to collect and they are no longer being raised by RCT. Like Jeremy stated, good luck finding someone who wants to part with theirs.

The little goby is a fish that I have wanted for a long time and have never seen one in the US.

~Michael

Yea its sad that RCT is no longer breeding them for 2010. Ive contacted them as well and it seems they do not have any idea if/when they will be again :( . Its ok im in no rush but im still wondering what the laws are in new york/USA for having fish sent here overseas does anyone know? I know what you mean about the goby as well the thing is beautiful!

[inselaffe]

I've been looking for one for about 18months over in england and they dont come in over here, i have only ever seen them out in the redsea while diving and there are loads of them. great little fish. I'm also after a redsea mimic blenny and no joy on that on too.

[jmaneyapanda]

Yea its sad that RCT is no longer breeding them for 2010. Ive contacted them as well and it seems they do not have any idea if/when they will be again :( . Its ok im in no rush but im still wondering what the laws are in new york/USA for having fish sent here overseas does anyone know? I know what you mean about the goby as well the thing is beautiful!

It usually isnt a problem at all. You'll just need to jump through the hoops, and assuming you arent talking about a CITES listed species, and its from a reasonable source country, its just a matter of filling the forms, and paying the fees. No "holding times".

You'll want to contact an importer of live animals- they will do almost all the work for you, and you just pay them the fee.

[rssjsb]

You might want to ask in the clown forum about the thielleis. I understand that they're kind of mean. They may do ok into a 20, but I would worry about tankmates.

[twelvejewelz]

thanks rssjsb ill see about them. I have a good friend looking into the whitecap goby for me now that will hopefully be able to get me this fish. ill keep you all posted :) .Have you all seen if there natural shrimp is even available? it is Alpheus rubromaculatus

[twelvejewelz]

It usually isnt a problem at all. You'll just need to jump through the hoops, and assuming you arent talking about a CITES listed species, and its from a reasonable source country, its just a matter of filling the forms, and paying the fees. No "holding times".

You'll want to contact an importer of live animals- they will do almost all the work for you, and you just pay them the fee.

thanks , what do you all think is a reasonable price for the goby? then reasonable for goby/shrimp pair? then a reasonable proce for a pair of the gobys? thanks everyone

[Stumped]

thanks , what do you all think is a reasonable price for the goby? then reasonable for goby/shrimp pair? then a reasonable proce for a pair of the gobys? thanks everyone

Unless things have changed they were going for like $1000+ in Japan the last time I read/heard anything about them. From what everyone is saying in this thread they're completely unavailable in the US, so I would guess a reasonable estimate as to the starting price would be at least $1000+ for one here. A shrimp/goby pair with the specific shrimp you mentioned would obviously fetch an even higher price. I wouldn't even hazard a guess how much a pair would actually go for. If they're like many other gobies you probably couldn't just throw two together and have a pair. So I'd have to guess a 'fair' price would be like $2500 or something for an actual pair.

With anything that is essentially a 'one of a kind' type item, it comes down to whatever it's worth to the buyer and not so much the actual value of the item so the 'fair' value will be whatever it's worth to you.

[fishkid6692]

i've wanted that goby for a while and i have searched everywhere with no luck. i'm sure there is at least a few people in line for one even if they do come to the US. good luck!

-matt

[SDguy]

Back when I asked about this fish...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1508468&highlight=lotilia+graciliosa

[twelvejewelz]

thanks for all of the replies everyone. It would be worth $2500 for a pair and their natural shrimp to me 100%. I have contacted a few people outside of the country and and awaiting some replies. My friend says he has never even heard of 1 , that is very discouraging as he gets anything( apparently not anymore lol ) . Hes looking into it now as well though for me .I would think a fish like this or the Centropyge resplendens people would be breeding because they can. i dont understand , i mean really someone would get rich off of it why not put a little time in hehe makes no sense to me :)

[Jens Kallmeyer]

The Lotilia goby is about as shy as it can possible get for a goby. I've seen them in the Red Sea several times, but getting close to them without a rebreather is basically impossible. If you are on normal scuba gear and make bubbles they dive into their burrow as soon as you get closer than 15 feet. A few became available in Japan a while back, but the price was in the 1000+$ range IIRC.
With a 20 gal don't even think about a C. interruptus, these guys get huge, this isn't even big enough for a juvie.
Enough has been said about the C. resplendens, it is a Red List species. A few are being smuggled out to Japan every year, but this is all pretty illegal and I wouldn't encourage anyone buying illegal fish. I was lucky to see them in the wild while diving on Ascension Island, they live in huge groups. So if this species every becomes available I would either scrape together enough money to buy several of them or pass the offer. This fish should not be kept as a single specimen!

Jens
If you really want to go for a tank with "rare" specimen, why not invest half of the money into a decent sized setup before

[twelvejewelz]

Thats amazing your so lucky to have seen them diving thats truly amazing!Why wouldnt a diver then "Scoop" up the entire burrow? The sand would be sifted through the net leaving the goby and shrimp to be collected no?Yea i understand and i will not be getting C. interruptus thats for sure. I know its a red list species but it has also been captive bred and i would never contribute to the smuggling trade by buying a fish thats on the red list species like that , thats just wrong!! I have a 75gallon brand new with everything i need but at the present time there is no room for it. I like nano's better as well to be honest alot more work goes into them and its more rewarding for me to maintain a nano. When i get a bigger apartment i will probably have a 210gallon and 2-3 nanos setup as id like to have a go at breeding some snowflake and/or picasso clowns as well. I love the fact of keeping a piece of reef healthy in a tiny box :) .The money isnt really an issue for the fish and if one of the people ive contacted can come through i will surely buy as many as they can get and mabe have a go at trying to breed them perhaps instead( the goby that is) who knows though im just putting it all out there :)

[Stumped]

Thats amazing your so lucky to have seen them diving thats truly amazing!Why wouldnt a diver then "Scoop" up the entire burrow? The sand would be sifted through the net leaving the goby and shrimp to be collected no?

Burrowing fish in general dig much deeper than just below the surface of the sea floor. They also don't necessarily dig in a perfectly vertical fashion. So what you're suggesting would be impossible. Also it would be an extremely disruptive and destructive collection method.

[twelvejewelz]

Burrowing fish in general dig much deeper than just below the surface of the sea floor. They also don't necessarily dig in a perfectly vertical fashion. So what you're suggesting would be impossible. Also it would be an extremely disruptive and destructive collection method.

Do you really think it would be that disruptive? I mean really your just kind of stirring the sand its not like you'd be wrecking or touching the actual reef base in this case. I know i have a yellow watchman goby/yellow pistol shrimp pair now that have a burrow in about a 1 square foot space now but they always stay in the same burrow and never change entrances. I guess each shrimp/goby have different habits though as ive seen some that dig non stop.
With such rare fish as these and fish that are on the red list it would be a good idea for people to breed these fish. I dont understand why RCT would even stop. They may have been able to get grants and do it for free for Centropyge resplendens they could introduce them back to the wild and help wild populations if they did it in a sterile enough environment.

[Chelsey]

Jewelz, have you ever tried breeding any saltwater fish? It's not super easy. Clownfish may be relatively easy, but others are not so much.

RCT stopped because Frank was trying to finish up his PhD (IIRC) and raising angels is ridiculously time consuming. I believe that he had to go out and sieve for plankton daily, which takes time in itself, not to mention all of the feeding, water changes, monitoring, and egg collection that has to take place.

Even if you managed to get a pair of these gobies, who's to say they'll ever spawn for you? In order to get some of these rarer fish to spawn conditions have to be PERFECT. If there aren't many people keeping them (which there aren't), then it would be very hard to get enough input on what makes these fish thrive, let alone breed. Then, even if they do start breeding, what would these guys eat? Rotifers? Maybe, or maybe not. If nobody keeps them and nobody's bred them then nobody knows how to raise the fry.

It's not as easy as getting two fish together and hope they breed...there's a lot more work that goes into rearing fish than just getting broodstock and rotifers....

[jmaneyapanda]

Jewelz, have you ever tried breeding any saltwater fish? It's not super easy. Clownfish may be relatively easy, but others are not so much.

RCT stopped because Frank was trying to finish up his PhD (IIRC) and raising angels is ridiculously time consuming. I believe that he had to go out and sieve for plankton daily, which takes time in itself, not to mention all of the feeding, water changes, monitoring, and egg collection that has to take place.

Even if you managed to get a pair of these gobies, who's to say they'll ever spawn for you? In order to get some of these rarer fish to spawn conditions have to be PERFECT. If there aren't many people keeping them (which there aren't), then it would be very hard to get enough input on what makes these fish thrive, let alone breed. Then, even if they do start breeding, what would these guys eat? Rotifers? Maybe, or maybe not. If nobody keeps them and nobody's bred them then nobody knows how to raise the fry.

It's not as easy as getting two fish together and hope they breed...there's a lot more work that goes into rearing fish than just getting broodstock and rotifers....

+1. Jewelz, you are grossly undersestimating the effort, skill, and monetary loss involved in breeding most marines.

[jmaneyapanda]

Do you really think it would be that disruptive? I mean really your just kind of stirring the sand its not like you'd be wrecking or touching the actual reef base in this case. I know i have a yellow watchman goby/yellow pistol shrimp pair now that have a burrow in about a 1 square foot space now but they always stay in the same burrow and never change entrances. I guess each shrimp/goby have different habits though as ive seen some that dig non stop.
With such rare fish as these and fish that are on the red list it would be a good idea for people to breed these fish. I dont understand why RCT would even stop. They may have been able to get grants and do it for free for Centropyge resplendens they could introduce them back to the wild and help wild populations if they did it in a sterile enough environment.

One more thing, C. resplendens are not on the IUCN redlist because they are rare or endangered. If youve ever seen pictures of them in their native habitat, they are swarming. They are on the list becuase they are a geographically limited and restricted species. That being said, they do deserve protection, but reintroduction is not a necessity with these fish.

[twelvejewelz]

Thanks Chelsey and jmaneyapanda. I understand as im having my first go at trying to raise clowns as we speak. Ive been breeding african cichlids for many years and i can tell you for sure its alot easier than marine fish lol . I have a rotifier culture going right now and brine shrimp eggs as well. Its actually kind of a pain to be honest. Im thinking of buying some picassos or snowflake clowns to try and breed now as well though.This is my first time getting my clowns to spawn and they are over 2 years old so i can just imagine how hard it must be to try and raise angels or gobys!
Im not to sure youd really lose money though to raise the angels as people would be willing to pay 1k-2k a piece, say you got 50 in 1 shot thats 100,000$ , minus expenses your probably left with about 90k even paying for equipment, then its smooth sailing form there i would think. And i wasnt aware of the reason they were on the red list thanks for that info :) .
i asked someone that raises Centropye Argi and they said "it's a bit more involved than just using greenwater and rotifers. Karen Britain did raise Genicanthus personatus on rotifers and ciliates, but it seems that the greater amount of success has come with the addition of calanoid copepod nauplii, and of course, it's not just any old calanoid.
"
it just seems after research that it would be similar to raising clowns just alittle harder to find a food source. once you have it though i would think youd be good to go. Either way the more info you all give me the better thanks :))

[Chelsey]

Who was this someone that raises C. argi? Have they gotten them through metamorphosis?

People might pay 1k-2k a piece for the resplendens, but for how long? Angels spawn nearly nightly, if you were able to raise 50 per batch you'd quickly flood the market and the price would go down. Not to mention that it takes a LONG time to get angels to a saleable size...

[twelvejewelz]

As far as i know yes they have gotten them through the metamorphosis. they are also breeding those beautiful lightning maroon clowns as well as Oxymonacanthus longirostris and Pseudochromis cyanotaenia .I dont know them personally but i have contacted them with a bunch of questions and they have written be back. Ill shoot you a pm as well as im not a name dropper in an open forum :P .I just think with all of the breakthroughs in this hobby by now we would have these fish readily available and we wouldnt have to be ruining wild populations and or reefs around the world to get them. Its sad to see their natural habitats being destroyed . Ive seen some pretty beautiful pictures of the natural reefs but i have also seen some that are a mess and its a shame.Im willing to pay double the price for a fish that has been bred in captivity as to not contribute to any type of destruction but im sure alot of people arnt.

[Stumped]

Do you really think it would be that disruptive? I mean really your just kind of stirring the sand its not like you'd be wrecking or touching the actual reef base in this case. I know i have a yellow watchman goby/yellow pistol shrimp pair now that have a burrow in about a 1 square foot space now but they always stay in the same burrow and never change entrances. I guess each shrimp/goby have different habits though as ive seen some that dig non stop.

It would definitely be something I'd call needlessly disruptive. Imagine how many different things you'd be disturbing if you dug up even a 1' x 1' x 1' section to isolate a burrow. Now repeat that dozens of times in a given area, and repeat that multiple times a week/month/whatever. Obviously there are a lot more destructive methods currently used for other fish in the trade, but I still wouldn't suggest it'd be a reasonable option.

[MikeandNicole]

My local LFS down here in Jersey has a Whitecap Goby Lotilia graciliosa.

[twelvejewelz]

My local LFS down here in Jersey has a Whitecap Goby Lotilia graciliosa.

Hello, im not to far from you. Can you please pm me the info of the LFS? Also are you sure its a whitecap because there is another goby that resembles the whitecap. How much are they selling it for?Thanks again

[Bongo Shrimp]

+1 +1!

[MikeandNicole]

The name of the store is Tropiquarium, I am a regular there (buy my RO water there every week). The fish is a white capped goby, he showed it to me and showed me the pictures in the book. He was very excited about it, saying it was possibly the only one in the US right now. Price was $750 with a pistol. They have it towards the back of the fish aisle, not labled. I would post pics, but I could not get any as it was in the burrow with the pistol.

[michael_cb_125]

Greenwich also has one!

~Michael

[Bongo Shrimp]

Yup, here ya go:
http://glassbox-design.com/2010/lotilia-graciliosa-hits-the-u-s-via-greenwich-aquaria/

[twelvejewelz]

omfg thanks, i hope i can make it there before someone else grabs it up!!!wish me luck as i wont be able to get there until monday :( . Im going to call and ask if i can pay now in advance tomorrow. Do you know if they had it with its natural shrimp pair(Alpheus rubromaculatus)?I was just afraid it may have been a Cryptocentrus malindiensis but this is awsome!

[JuliusJames]

Wow, thought it would cost more. As rare and beautiful as this fish is, id pay $ for it. Especially if it comes with a buddy.

[inselaffe]

good luck, i hope you get it and post us some pics when settled.

[SDguy]

How exciting!! Looking forward to pics!

[MikeandNicole]

omfg thanks, i hope i can make it there before someone else grabs it up!!!wish me luck as i wont be able to get there until monday :( . Im going to call and ask if i can pay now in advance tomorrow. Do you know if they had it with its natural shrimp pair(Alpheus rubromaculatus)?I was just afraid it may have been a Cryptocentrus malindiensis but this is awsome!

It was there last night when I went, they also got in some great corals. I don't know the species of pistol that it is paired with. I would recommend coming down early on Monday, you may get a ton of traffic going back north on the parkway back home.

BTW they are having a sale, buy one fish or coral and get another of lesser price %50 off.

[twelvejewelz]

Well id like to thank you MikeandNicole i called today and the shrimp and goby will be mine on tuesday!!! Even better it its paired with its natural shrimp (Alpheus rubromaculatus).The guy was very nice and said that the goby is about 1inch and the shrimp totally dwarfs the goby :) .Its eating frozen mysis and baby brine easily already .Im so excited right now and i really appreciate all the help everyone!!
The whitecap and shrimp will be going in a Mr.Aqua 24x18x18 (33.6gallon) rimless tank. Im going to be getting a pair of ORA grade A picasso clowns ,a Helfrichi firefish, and some kind of rare pigmy angel( either Centropyge joculator,Centropyge resplendens(which i know will probably not happen)not set on which dwarf angel yet but if i cant get either of those my favorite angelfish has always been C.Agri so ill just get one of those.Ive been eyeing the candy basslet on LA for some time now so i may ditch the firefish and get the candy basslet down the road nothing is set in stone.The tank will be mostly ORA SPS along with a rare zoa garden and a Red BTA for the clowns set on its own pedestal.
And dont worry ill be sure to post pictures when i finally have this goby and im sure everyone will be happy to see it :) !!!

[LemonLemon]

omg congrats on your goby. i've been following this thread and to be honest, i was very sure you won't be able to get this rare fish considering how uncommon it is.

well you proved me wrong and i'm humbled! nice to know you finally obtained it. congrats and enjoy your fish!

[twelvejewelz]

Hehe thanks lemonlemon :P .Ill have it tuesday and to be honest with you secretly i wasnt sure i was going to be able to get it either shhh :) .Im very happy and there will be tons of pictures to share with everyone dont worry !!!Get this theres another one available in another shop lets hope one is a male and one is a female and i will have a go at breeding these beautiful fish and will surely be helping out some people in our hobby if its possible its a shot in the dark but ive been lucky so far to this point so well see :)

[Stumped]

The whitecap and shrimp will be going in a Mr.Aqua 24x18x18 (33.6gallon) rimless tank. Im going to be getting a pair of ORA grade A picasso clowns ,a Helfrichi firefish, and some kind of rare pigmy angel( either Centropyge joculator,Centropyge resplendens(which i know will probably not happen)not set on which dwarf angel yet but if i cant get either of those my favorite angelfish has always been C.Agri so ill just get one of those.Ive been eyeing the candy basslet on LA for some time now so i may ditch the firefish and get the candy basslet down the road nothing is set in stone.

Congrats on the fish, but cover your tank. Would be a needless tragedy to see any of those fish carpet surfing (esp. your whitecap).

[SDguy]

I would leave out the angel altogether in that size tank. IME it will be too aggressive, and I would not want to risk the other fish you have planned, never mind this goby!

[MikeandNicole]

I will be leaving for Trop soon to pick up a blue spot today and try and get one last look at that fish in person. I am glad I could help you out and wish you luck with the fish.

[fishkid6692]

congrats jewelz! i'm picking up the one from greenwich next week too! lmk how yours does!

-matt

[twelvejewelz]

thanks everyone :) . I wanted to get the one from greenwich to u beat me to it hehe.I was going to hope to get a pair and have a go at breeding them but its ok :). I definitely appreciate it MIKEANDNICOLE if you can snap a few pictures and post them here !!! Ive had a cherub angel in a 20 gallon and it was a model citizen i think the key is to just add it last. Like i said though nothing is set in stone yet im just happy to get the goby/shrimp!!!

[fishkid6692]

here's a pic of the one from greenwich aquaria. i took it with my phone so it's not that good.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/mattiskool98/IMG_0998-1.jpg

[twelvejewelz]

Thats so amazing thanks for the pic!!! I just spoke with jason from Greenwich and he said the goby is without a shrimp but thats still fine im sure you can find one for him to buddy up with. Do you know if the one your getting is male or female? Good luck with yours though i cant wait :) !

BTW fishkid i hope ur not putting it in the 180 or your going to lose it!!

[twelvejewelz]

i think im going to go with this for my 33.6 (24x18x18)Mr. Aqua tank:
Its going to consist of the whitecap goby(lotilia graciliosa) with its natural shrimp(Alpheus rubromaculatus). 1 Centropyge joculator dwarf angelfish which is beautiful. A pair of ORA grade "A" picasso clownfish.And either a candy basslet or a pair of Helfrichi firefish.So a total of 5-7 small fish ( i have a 10gallon nano now with 4 fish already thats been running almost 3 years now and doing amazing and healthy), mainly beautiful colored SPS with a Zoa Garden with as many different kinds of zoas i can find :) .Heres some links and pics of the fish i want from google, thanks to who ever posted the pics for me to find there hehe :) .Also if i can eventually find another whitecap then they will be put together in a separate tank in hopes to try and breed them( and yes i understand this would be a big undertaking but it adds that extra excitement to our hobby).Remember what works for some wont work for others so if you don't like my stocking ideas or have something bad to say about it please keep it to yourself as im very meticulous with the care of my animals and these are all relatively small species,But if you have any "constructive criticism" feel free to let me know.If i dont go with the Joculator Pygmy Angel i will get a cherub which is more than likely going to happen instead.thanks again everyone


Picasso clowns:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=91749

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7867/orapicasso.jpg (http://img266.imageshack.us/i/orapicasso.jpg/)



Candy Basslet (Liopropoma carmabi) :
http://www.liveaquaria.com/DiversDen/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=89230

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9537/candybasslet.jpg (http://img441.imageshack.us/i/candybasslet.jpg/)



Helfrichi firefish:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1636+171&pcatid=171

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7660/helfrichi.jpg (http://img267.imageshack.us/i/helfrichi.jpg/)




Centropyge joculator:
http://www.themarinecenter.com/fish/angelfish/joculatorpygmyangel/
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8606/jocd.jpg (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/jocd.jpg/)



Whitecap Goby(Lotilia graciliosa):
http://glassbox-design.com/2009/the-enchanting-whitecap-goby-lotilia-graciliosa/

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6328/whitecf.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/i/whitecf.jpg/)

[fishkid6692]

It's going in it's own tank that I'm going to plumb Into the 180g. And I'll eventually get the shrimp but I'll just have to wait.

-matt

[inselaffe]

i have never seen a pair of whitecaps in the ocean only ever on there own with the borrows at least 10m apart. Would love to have one but they never some in over here and tbh i also dont have that amount of money spare for a fish. Great fish and look forward to seeing how it all pans out.

p.s candy basslet is also another one of my favs but they dont come into england eather.

[MikeandNicole]

So lets see some pics already :beer:

[michael_cb_125]

I would be very careful putting that C. joculator into a tank that small. These angels get a little larger than some of the other dwarf angels, and they are much more aggressive than your typical dwarf angel. As for the Candy Basslet, I say do it! I have one, and it is by far one of my favorite fish.

~Michael

[skibum9884]

Also, I'd be careful with a candy basslet and the shrimp. I know they generally stay in the burrow, but on the rare occasion it comes out I'd be worried it'd become lunch!

[Bongo Shrimp]

LET'S SEE SOME PICS ALREADY!!! :furious:

[twelvejewelz]

Yea nano reefing is alittle different though i think people who keep large tanks dont understand the work that goes into keeping them pristine :) . I keep up on water changes 2 times a week and have a octopus skimmer rated for 90 gallons on a 30 gallon tank along with a fuge with liverock rubble , cheato, chemipure elite and carbon. My water is a clean as can be .Im not worried about keeping the C.Joculator in a tank of this size as people in the nano world keep lemonpeel angels in 30 gallon tanks healthily and happily and they get up to 6 inches.The C.Joculator only reaches about half that size of 3.5inces and its pretty hardy in the fish tank.Thanks for you concern though.As far as the candy basslet, they only get about 2.5 inches which is about the same size of the pistol shrimp so i doubt the basslet will even bother it.If it does i can always put the whitecap in its own tank but im not worried at all.I still am not dead set on the C.Joculator as the cherrub angel(c.argi) is and always will be my favorite dwarf angel and there very cheap so i may just get one of those instead. I havnt picked up the fish yet as im just waiting for my check to clear but they are holding it for me luckily :) . Dont worry ill make sure i post TONS of pics. Did you ever pick yours up Fishkid6692?Also can you post me some pics of your candy basslet here Michael i see the one in your avatar but id love to see more :). thanks again everyone !!!!

[jmaneyapanda]

Lemonpeels get to six inches??!! Since when? You may be thinking of bicolors. And I would still argue that its a bad idea for the joc in the 30. Space wise, aggression wise, and fish wellbeing wise. But, it appears your heart is set on it. Good luck.

[michael_cb_125]

:worried:

Joc+little tank= disaster!

~Michael

[Toddrtrex]

JMO --- if you have the money for these "rare" fish, why not set up another -- proper -- tank for them, instead of overstocking one smallish tank?

[michael_cb_125]

I agree.

~Michael

[fishkid6692]

I just picked mine up. I'll post pics when I get home. :)

[michael_cb_125]

Pictures.........up close pictures....pichers.....pichers........ Now!!!

Pitchers.....picers.... iNeed......ppp...


~Michael

[fishkid6692]

and here they are...
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/mattiskool98/IMG_1166.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/mattiskool98/IMG_1167.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/mattiskool98/IMG_1168.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/mattiskool98/IMG_1169.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/mattiskool98/IMG_1170.jpg

[fishkid6692]

and more..
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/mattiskool98/IMG_1173.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/mattiskool98/IMG_1174.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/mattiskool98/IMG_1175.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/mattiskool98/IMG_1176.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/mattiskool98/IMG_1177.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/mattiskool98/IMG_1178.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h80/mattiskool98/IMG_1179.jpg

[fishkid6692]

sorry there only phone pics. i can't find the charger for my camera. :/

[Bongo Shrimp]

Mom? Can I get a $750 1" long goby pleeeeeeaaase?

[melanotaenia]

Mom? Can I get a $750 1" long goby pleeeeeeaaase?


Foot in mouth=you

Great snag fishkid! Keep us updated on his adaptation to aquarium life.n What do you plan on feeding him?

[jmaneyapanda]

Mom? Can I get a $750 1" long goby pleeeeeeaaase?

Whats the matter with you?

[Bongo Shrimp]

Nothing, I just love that goby but don't have any $$$ :spin3:! I thought you had a shrimp with it? Or was that the other one? Is he in quarantine or was that tank just for pics? He's so tiny.

You guys misunderstood. It's like a kid asking his mom if he can get a nice expensive fish and she laughs at him and says yeah, forget the new computer and dinner for the next few days... :hmm4:

[fishkid6692]

I'm going to try cyclopeez and finely chopped mysis tomorrow. He went into his own tank that is running off of my 180g. I don't have the shrimp yet but I'm working on it. ;) thanks.


-matt

[Aquabacs]

Matt, glad to see you picked it up. Saw Jason on Saturday and said you were most likely going to grab it :) it is good to see it go into the proper hands. Think the shrimp is coming in soon ;)

Mike

[Bongo Shrimp]

Isn't the specific shrimp rather rare in the trade as well?

[skibum9884]

Matt! Looks great. I wish I could have gotten over to GA to see it before you picked it up.

Soooo, what else are you looking to keep with it besides a shrimp?

Also, great move keeping it in a smaller tank where it won't get completely lost!

Best of luck,
Dave

[SDguy]

Soooo cool! I can't believe I'm finally seeing one of these in someone's tank. Huh, only took 21 years of waiting on my part :lol:

[fishkid6692]

i was planning on just keeping the goby/shrimp pair in this tank. i only have 2 pieces of liverock and i've seen it once since i put it in. he also ate some cyclopeeze today. :) thanks.

-matt

[Bongo Shrimp]

The shrimp will probably have some ideas of how he wants everything to look in there.

[HomeSlizzice]

Nice job Matt!!! It's about time some Whitecap Gobys (Lotilia graciliosa) get into the trade! You are a lucky guy, that is one beautiful fish! Congrats man, I hope it lives a long happy life in your care. :)

[fishkid6692]

The goby is still doing well but i haven't seen it in the open since it was put in the tank. The only way i can see him is if i look into it's cave and even then i can only see his head. i had an idea that i wanted to get some advice on. i have a goby/pistol pair in my 180 and i was thinking of taking out the goby and pairing up that pistol with my whitecap in the 180. the shrimp already has his home built right in front so i figured it would stay there and i could just switch the whitecap out with the other goby. anyone see any problems with it? i could even put a small critterkeeper over the area so the goby won't get lost until he finds the pistol. thanks in advance!

-matt

[melanotaenia]

He may just need more time to before he is out more. My watchman took almost six weeks before becoming very comfortable roaming out of his burrow for extended periods of time. The pistol shrimp could be a gamble since they (the goby and shrimp) were not originally paired.

[Matt_Wandell]

I'd say leave the thing be. Sometimes it just takes a few weeks/months for certain fish to get comfortable. Based on diver accounts of their behavior it sounds like these gobies are incredibly shy.

[edwing206]

Any updates?
Also, who is gonna get this one?
http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=96356

[Project Reef]

A buddy of mine had a pair of these back in 02-03. He sold 'em for $150 (each) back then I believe. They are a lovely fish in person. So cool to watch 'em hover.

[Aquabacs]

GBD put up a nice set of videos today up on the Lotilia http://bit.ly/d54J3a Nice job Eric!


Mike

[SDguy]

So, I gotta ask... what's with the price?

I'd be lying if I said it didn't sadden me that a fish I've admired in pictures for 20 years now ends up being so expensive. Is it purely a demand thing at this point?

[velvetelvis]

I didn't even realize it had such long, full fins and tail till I saw the video. Beautiful little fish!

[jaa1456]

I saw one on Liveaquaria I believe they want around 800 for it.

[inselaffe]

So, I gotta ask... what's with the price?

I'd be lying if I said it didn't sadden me that a fish I've admired in pictures for 20 years now ends up being so expensive. Is it purely a demand thing at this point?

Demand is high and they come from the north of the red sea where you cant collect from, very few seem to go south and when they do they seem to be collected for the trade rather than left to establish them selfs so we could have better availability of them. I think. :crazy1:

When i have seen them in the wild there borrows wernt tucked in under the rocks and were a good 2 feet away, I dont know if this is what they might prefer but them most the shrimp gobys pairs i saw were out in the open rather than like in our systems where they hide under part rock.

[SDguy]

Demand is high and they come from the north of the red sea where you cant collect from, very few seem to go south and when they do they seem to be collected for the trade rather than left to establish them selfs so we could have better availability of them. I think. :crazy1:


Judging by what Kevin Kohen had to say in that thread I linked to earlier, I didn't get the impression that they had a limited range.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1508468&highlight=lotilia+graciliosa

[IFbettas]

I saw one of these little guys at an lfs today. Really cool fish, but really small. I think it was listed for $500.

[Aquabacs]

Would that be perhaps Old Town? I heard Jim got one in.

Mike

[IFbettas]

Yep, it was at Old Town.

[twelvejewelz]

I wasn't able to get the fish as there was an unforeseen tragedy within my family so spending the 700 was out of the question. Im really upset about this but i will surely find one in the future :-/ .It seems they are becoming more and more available.DFS has one on their site as well as a couple fish stores ive heard of.I got a cherub angel and a Multibar angel for now and this fish is still going to go in my tank but its going to have to wait a few months. Any more updates on your fish would be greatly appreciated and pictures would be great to if you can?! thanks

[SDguy]

Even have the proper pistol with it!! Very cool!
http://www.uniquecorals.com/lotilia-graciliosa-white-cap-goby?SID=d67de56709c6f3bcc91dd850f228fb1e

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt302/uniquecorals/fish1.jpg

[twelvejewelz]

They are really becoming available alot more lately! Divers den sold the one they had for 900$ i believe but they have one on there now for 500$!!! Someone better jump on that its the cheapest ive seen it so far!
http://www.liveaquaria.com/DiversDen/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=97719

EDIT: Damn SDGuy they sold that one. How much were they selling it for?They have one at Unique now without the shrimp for 1000$ forget that way overpriced!

[SDguy]

Honestly, that's the first time I've seen that symbiotic shrimp with it, so I can't say that's "over-priced".... If you're a collector, and going for the dream, you simply must have the proper shrimp, IMO :nerd:

[Unique Corals]

They are really becoming available alot more lately! Divers den sold the one they had for 900$ i believe but they have one on there now for 500$!!! Someone better jump on that its the cheapest ive seen it so far!
http://www.liveaquaria.com/DiversDen/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=97719

EDIT: Damn SDGuy they sold that one. How much were they selling it for?They have one at Unique now without the shrimp for 1000$ forget that way overpriced!

The price is WITH a shrimp paired up, twelve...not without. :)

[Psionicdragon]

wow, pretty interesting fish.

[twelvejewelz]

Honestly, that's the first time I've seen that symbiotic shrimp with it, so I can't say that's "over-priced".... If you're a collector, and going for the dream, you simply must have the proper shrimp, IMO :nerd:
The price i got was 750$ and that was with the shrimp as well. But it is a rare fish and i guess thats not to unreasonable.And i agree i wouldnt get it without the proper shrimp thats for sure. Unless you get one without the shrimp then later on get another one with the shrimp to perhaps pair them up :) ,And in that case breed them and become rich hehe

The price is WITH a shrimp paired up, twelve...not without. :)

Ah that makes alittle more sense then i wasnt bashing you :) ! BTW that was me that just emailed you unique ;) thanks.The shrimp is actually beautiful.Is this the second one that you got this week because i saw more pics on another site of the shrip and goby in a bowl.

EDIT: does the one you have have an orange ring on the dorsal fin? Ive seen a picture somewhere with one that had a beautiful orange ring and it seems the past about 7 that have been available in the past month havnt had this ring. Or atleast i havnt been able to see the ring. Also is there a way to tell the difference between male/female that you know of?

[Unique Corals]

Didn't think that at all, Tom! I can absolutely see how the product title might have been misleading! Actually, it looks like two of the same imgs got uploaded twice by mistake, when one of them should have been a group shot of them together. Price is for BOTH Goby & the Pistol Shrimp. My apologies and Product Title / Pic has been fixed accordingly on the site. Thanks! :D

[Unique Corals]

Oops, missed your question - affirmative on the orange ring! I'll try to get some better shots tomorrow and possibly a video. Not too sure on how to tell the sexes, however. :(

[mak3mydae]

Diver's Den just got one in if anyone's interested. Their facebook says they should be getting a few in. It's not paired up though. But most shrimp goby's are fairly easy to pair up, right?

http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=97719

[Big E]

I'd be torked if I payed $900 and a day later they are offering one for $500. If I was interested in one of these I'd wait. They are coming in now & the market will dictate the price. They are overpriced imo, even at $500.

[mak3mydae]

I'd be torked if I payed $900 and a day later they are offering one for $500. If I was interested in one of these I'd wait. They are coming in now & the market will dictate the price. They are overpriced imo, even at $500.


Yeah, it sucks that there are people just a few posts up who had to pay over 500 for one. I guess its good that they're supporting their LFS(if they bought it from them). I would be royally ****ed off though :furious:

[SDguy]

Yeah, it sucks that there are people just a few posts up who had to pay over 500 for one. I guess its good that they're supporting their LFS(if they bought it from them). I would be royally ****ed off though :furious:

If you want to be the first one on the block with the shiny new car, you better be prepared to pay for it. :beer:

[dohc97]

old town has one for $499 on the current newsletter i received yesterday. If it does not sell by tomorrow i might finally get to see one in person.

[twelvejewelz]

DD has a pair of white caps along with the shrimp someone jump on that!
http://www.liveaquaria.com/DiversDen/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=98055

[Western_reefer]

Single as well.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/DiversDen/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=97719

[twelvejewelz]

these things are all over all of a sudden. As soon as i cant get one there all over just my luck LOL. Watch what happens when i can finally get one they will be extinct .. I want that pair with the shrimp so badly .

[Western_reefer]

these things are all over all of a sudden. As soon as i cant get one there all over just my luck LOL. Watch what happens when i can finally get one they will be extinct .. I want that pair with the shrimp so badly .

Get them then? lol

[Big E]

Price continues to drop------


"I just sold a pair of White Cap w/ shrimp for $499. There is some serious mark ups being taken by some wholesalers...not the retailers."

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1899561

[twelvejewelz]

best price yet $350 gets it .plus shrimp ! damn i still dont have the $$ :( this is sad lol
http://www.nyaquatic.com/servlet/the-879/White-Cap-Goby%2C-with/Detail

[MikeandNicole]

My other local LFS just got one in with a shrimp for $400. Still a little out of my price range and man are they small.

[jaa1456]

I just saw them at a LFS near me for 250. 425 for the pair. Shrimp is included with them. These things are like a crashing stock market, next year they will be 50 bucks.

[Big E]

Just got an email from a vendor............$299.95 with shrimp:lol2:

I bet they aren't done dropping.

[jonbry123]

NYAquatic.com has one right now including the red spotted snapping shrimp.

[Yurivd]

i am getting one next week
how rare are the shrimps thy go with
do you think a bullseye pistol shrimp (Alpheus soror) will work i have one in the tank

[skibum9884]

i am getting one next week
how rare are the shrimps thy go with
do you think a bullseye pistol shrimp (Alpheus soror) will work i have one in the tank

I think the shrimp they come with are pretty difficult to come by. I know you've got some great connections in this hobby though, so I'd get a call into some collectors you know.

Also, the situation could be very different in SA than it is here in the US!

[twelvejewelz]

Yea from all of the research ive done on this species it seems the shrimp is just as rare as the fish itself. Im sure the goby will do just fine with any shrimp but i say why not just get the right one. The next pair of gobies with 1 shrimp i see is mine i dont care anymore there really cheap now :P

[Yurivd]

the other problem is
what is the life time of the shrimp and what is the life time of the goby
i know normal shrimps only live for 2 years if that is the case then i will not spend over $100 on a shrimp

[Jordani]

One of my LFS is geting two in soon and olny selling them for $400 each without the shrimp.

[snorvich]

i am getting one next week
how rare are the shrimps thy go with
do you think a bullseye pistol shrimp (Alpheus soror) will work i have one in the tank

I have alpheus soror (gorgeous) but they are not shrimp gobies. FYI

[Yurivd]

i got my white cap goby just now he looked in a good condition :spin3:
i will take photos later

[SDguy]

do you think a bullseye pistol shrimp (Alpheus soror) will work i have one in the tank

I had one of those for several years. He was a bruiser! I'd be afraid of him eating the tiny goby!

[Yurivd]

I had one of those for several years. He was a bruiser! I'd be afraid of him eating the tiny goby!

that is what i was thinking after seeing the goby he is under 1 inch (2cm)
he will not go in the same tank as the soror
there was the correct pistol shrimp but in the shop coralbanded shrimp killed it

[SDguy]

there was the correct pistol shrimp but in the shop coralbanded shrimp killed it

Oh, bummer! :( Maybe they can get you another?

[twelvejewelz]

the other problem is
what is the life time of the shrimp and what is the life time of the goby
i know normal shrimps only live for 2 years if that is the case then i will not spend over $100 on a shrimp

Im not sure how true this is on the lifespan of a shrimp. I have 2 shrimp now that are 3.5 years old. One is a pistol shrimp and one is a scarlet skunk cleaner. They are both going strong and as healthy as can be. Now if you figure that out so far you would have spent 28dollars for the lifetime of my shrimp at the 100$ price. I dont think thats really bad at all. If your willing to spend the $$ on the fish you may as well get the proper shrimp thats just my opinion though :)

EDIT: by the way i wouldnt add the bullseye pistol shrimp (Alpheus soror) as it isnt a goby shrimp and will definitely eat your fish.good luck!

[Angel*Fish]

thanks for all of the replies everyone. It would be worth $2500 for a pair and their natural shrimp to me 100%. If that's the case then please don't put any angels in a 20 g. Please do the fish a favor and spring for a larger tank. Even the cherub (or the respendens) needs more space.

[Yurivd]

Im not sure how true this is on the lifespan of a shrimp. I have 2 shrimp now that are 3.5 years old. One is a pistol shrimp and one is a scarlet skunk cleaner. They are both going strong and as healthy as can be. Now if you figure that out so far you would have spent 28dollars for the lifetime of my shrimp at the 100$ price. I dont think thats really bad at all. If your willing to spend the $$ on the fish you may as well get the proper shrimp thats just my opinion though :)

EDIT: by the way i wouldnt add the bullseye pistol shrimp (Alpheus soror) as it isnt a goby shrimp and will definitely eat your fish.good luck!

it never started eating :thumbdown

[toughdog]

hi all,

I am impressed of this thread and what lenghts you guys go in pursuing happiness :d

Let me share something that may be of interest to you..

I am running a 55 gallon DSB gobies system, I am crazy for goby/shrimp partnership. It all started with a yellow watchman and a Alpheus bellulus (tiger pistol). They were working hard in my tank for a year till once I was fingering the sand in search of a nasty wrasse I wanted to get out and I may have killed the shrimp. RIP tiger.. Since then, may beloved yellow watchman who is a senior citizen in my tank has his face even more grumpy..

In my attempt to get him a partner, i spent 6 months getting all the shrimps i found in all the LFS in singapore, I have more than 15 all over in the tank now, but none has paired with my YW. I could not find another Alpheus bellulus yet..

Having so much shrimps, I thot I would look for some gobies to get them happy too, so I have a few pairs buldozing around right now. Here my system:

gobies:
yellow watchman goby - Cryptocentrus cinctus
Dracula Goby - Stonogobiops dracula
orangespotted shrimp goby - Amblyeleotris guttata
pinkbar goby - Amblyeleotris aurora
randall's goby - Amblyeleotris randalli

shrimps are mostly Alpheus randalli, Alpheus bisincisus and Alpheus ochrostriatus and some others I couldnt identify.. maybe 15 of all, but all are hiding unless they are paired with gobies. So I dont even know they are there...

Evrery goby found a shrimp mate except for my YW.. Still in search of a tier shrimp for him..

Sorry for the long storry coming to the subject now.. While visiting one LFS, the shop lady who knows I am crazy about shrimp gobies, was always showing me her white cap goby but I've always disregard her giving the size of the little fellow. The pair (White Cap Goby - Lotilia graciliosa plus Alpheus rubromaculatus - Red Spotted Snapping Shrimp) was selling for $100. About the amount all my other gobies cost together..

I've said no for a month, untl last weekend she show me a new pair, JUST came of the shipment. Still in the collection bag. These were double in size than the original pair she has, so I thot I'll take it and aclimatize it myself.

Unfortunatelly, the shrimp is fine but the goby died in the first one hour of aclimatization.. Expensive try but didnt give up. This weekend went back and got the other pair for another 100 bucks. These pair is really small (goby half inch and the shrimp 1 inch) but!! They already took over the cave where the "old" Alpheus rubromaculatus was spending his lonelines and now I have a boy with two *****es! Is amazing to see a half inch fish bossing around 2 shrimp double and quadruple its size and getting them to work for him :P

I am happy. And is for 200 bucks.. I am scared to think this happiness could have cost 2000 if I were living in US or UK..

Just wanted to share this and to make a point. Shrimps and Gobies will only pair if they match a certain species. I couldnt match a yellow watchman with a randall shrimp for a year now even getting 10 randalls in the tank, none would get to the YM. However once I put the Dracula goby inside, two randalls took to him in the first day :D

Same for the White Cap Goby, I am pretty sure his pair is only with Alpheus rubromaculatus..

[Big E]

The goby can be had for $150 now as the hype has worn off. Still more than what you can get them for.

Interesting info on the pairings.