DIY rock with VIDEO tutorial and Q/A

[Greenmaster]

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Some things of note.

-With the formula I have you need to let the molds sit for 48 hours to cure properly. If you want it stronger (also it will be less porous and heavier) you can remove the salt from the formula or add extra cement.
-You can't make things too thin or they will brake.
-Will flake lots of stuff off (using more cement stops that)
-You can use sand as the medium for molding your rocks in.
-If you use balloons for making shapes you need to make sure you take out the balloons when done. (some times the balloons pop and you have to chisel the balloon out or just through out the rock)
-The oyster shell can be substituted by aragonite sand or crushed/pieces of coral. (It is not anywhere near as porous but is way stronger... but I would prefer to use no salt or more cement then aragonite or crushed coral)
-After being made it needs to soak for up to 2 months to make sure most of what can leach out has leached out. (with a proper set-up you could possibly do it in 1 month or less with the formula I have used as there is lots of water flow through the entire structure... a downside of that is there is much less anaerobic areas in the rock turning nitrates to nitrogen... most tanks don't try to do that process anyways, on the upside there is lots of aerobic area for turning ammonia/ammonium all the way into nitrates... and that's the most important part of the nitrogen cycle in most tanks.


Formula:

-3 Parts washed crushed oyster shell (can be picked up at almost all feed stores, very inexpensive... in a city you might have to go to the edge of town as not many people in cities keep chickens :D )
-1 Part Aragonite sand (picked up at most fish stores can be substituted for pool sand or removed from the formula all together... I like to keep it in there)
-1 part White Portland Cement type 10 or general use (can be picked up at some places where cement supplies can be purchased. You can use the gray stuff as it is cheaper and easier to find, but I have heard that it takes longer to cure and it doesn't look as good IMO, also to make your rock stronger you can add extra cement to your mix... makes it slightly less porous and slightly heavier... would also make more anaerobic areas)
- 1 part Course Rock Salt. (I used water softening salt it can be purchased at some grocery stores as well as at some appliance stores and some hardware stores... also very cheap... can be removed from formula to make rock stronger... also makes it less porous and heavier... also makes slightly more anaerobic areas)

If you would like to see more pictures of the rock or see it in an operating system (operating as of September 2010) take a look at my build thread. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1840581

[Foxy Brown]

Fantastic info, I always wanted to know how to do that. Cheers!

[Greenmaster]

If you are making more elaborate shapes and/or you want it to flake less you could do 1.2-1.5 parts cement and it is still quite porous and not too heavy. The formula I posted is the minimum amount of cement you would want... in the video I was saying that "you don't need to be exact" but if you put heaping scoops of the oyster shell and sand with shallow scoops of the cement your rock will be weak.

Fantastic info, I always wanted to know how to do that. Cheers!

No prob... if you have any questions I'm here to help.

[jakeh24]

i may have missed it but what is your "soaking" formula

[Greenmaster]

i may have missed it but what is your "soaking" formula

I do not believe that I said... but here you go.
I live near the ocean... I take a canoe out to a small island and place the rocks in the water at low tide then pick them up in a month or two. Other ways of soaking are to take a large tote/bucket/kiddie pool and having a power head or two inside to circulate the water and have water dripping in slowly for a month or so... another way rather then the constant drip is to change the water completely every 2-4 days. If you live near a stream or creek you could also put it there... but I would soak for 1 day change water then soak for one more day before bringing it to the stream to prevent too many toxins getting into the water in to high a concentration... I do this with all my rock before putting it into the ocean... also the soaking after letting it dry you can really see the detail and the holes made by the salt and it's quite lite and easy to transport as well. Did that answer your question?

[jakeh24]

yes, thank you!

[Greenmaster]

If you are making more elaborate shapes and/or you want it to flake less you could do 1.2-1.5 parts cement and it is still quite porous and not too heavy. The formula I posted is the minimum amount of cement you would want... in the video I was saying that "you don't need to be exact" but if you put heaping scoops of the oyster shell and sand with shallow scoops of the cement your rock will be weak.

[Edward Smith]

If the thickness was only about 1/2", would it be drillable?

If so, anyone know what kind of bit?

[Greenmaster]

umm... I used a pair of needle nosed pliers and chiseled a hole... masonry bit would work well too.

[Greenmaster]

As stated above I would use 1.5 parts white portland cement in the recipe next time. The formula I used crumbles a bit too much for me... (but the stuff I made I am still going to use, I'm not going to redo it.)

[Edward Smith]

I can't find Type 10 or GU in my area.

They only one I found was Type one. Is this safe? Will it work?

[Greenmaster]

Yes it will work. I do suggest getting the white portland though.

[Soleil SW]

These look great! I loved to vids but how hard is it to remove the ballons from the rocks?

[Greenmaster]

Easy... pop the balloon and take it out.

[capecoral]

First two vids worked, but the others would not play. They work for others?

[Greenmaster]

Try again... just reset the computer if it didn't work and try again... If you can watch YouTube you can watch these.

[dogstar74]

Super nice,

To avoid the smooth inside of the cave wall, you could always lace the area next to the balloon with free oyster shell. That would pull away when the balloon is popped, and you wouldn't get a smooth interior wall. Just an idea to add authenticity.

You could also use surgeons gloves blown up, that would allow the fingers to cut out of the edges to make all sorts of caverns. Also, balloon animal balloons tied into all sorts of knots would also add more interesting shapes.

Well done. Looks light and porous.

Aaron

[Greenmaster]

The problem with that is then you have sharp edges that can cut your fish... and you need to go in with a small file to smooth the walls.

[capecoral]

I saw them all... looks like a fun weekend project!

[Greenmaster]

For me it's a fun month long project... a few rocks a week as I perfect my molding skills and decide on the final rocks to include in my build.

[Greenmaster]

These are some of the rocks I have made.
http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx18/Greenmasterone/DIYrock-1.jpg
http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx18/Greenmasterone/Liawithrocks.jpg
http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx18/Greenmasterone/P1000340.jpg
http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx18/Greenmasterone/FTSwithsump.jpg
http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx18/Greenmasterone/FTSwithLights.jpg

This stuff is also very porous. Water flows right through.

[Greenmaster]

If you look closely at the pic you can see the water just flowing through the rock.
http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx18/Greenmasterone/Filling1.jpg

Right now I am having PH problems because I didn't let my rocks leach long enough... once PH is balanced I will be adding fish and such to my tank.

[WillFB3]

Great thread! Especially video 4. I'm glad to see that I am not the only one with a wife that nags me about the fish tank!

[Greenmaster]

Great thread! Especially video 4. I'm glad to see that I am not the only one with a wife that nags me about the fish tank!

Thanks, with all the people who enjoyed the videos I'm glad that I made them... also enough people liked the part that I meant to edit out that I'm glad I left that too :D

[capecoral]

They were great

[Greenmaster]

They were great

Thanks :D

[Sharpie_]

have you tried mimicking real rock, I don't mean to offend but your rocks do have a distinctly artificial look about them. Is there any way of really getting a true looking rock?

[Giglamesh]

that will come with age. coralaline and corals, or i gues when molding them you cound divitit or the like

[Greenmaster]

Sharpie,
As far as shapes go I realize that most look artificial, but that's kinda how I wanted it. The nice thing about DIY rock is you can make it any shape you want. If you prefer to have lumps of rocks it's pretty easy to do.
Giglamesh,
Ya they all look better once some coraline gets going, but my rocks with the many caves looks artificial and always will.

[dogstar74]

I was thinking in the state they are in, it looks very natural for swallow nests :D. But I bet once the edges and things start to fill in with encrusing corals and such, then it will look very normal and natural. The truth is, you could put a cement parking lot bumper in the bottom and with enough variety of corals and long term growth, it would represent a really nice reef.

Looks great!
Aaron

[dogstar74]

The only problem that I see, is that I used to have a rock in my tank that had a cavern in it just like the ones you've made. Almost identical, except mine was a natural rock. Anyway, what I have found is that it is a most troubling formation to have a "cave". The reason is that when food or detritus blows into the cave, the current pretty much stops. So these caves become sinks of detritus. I mean it's amazing how much will collect in the bottom of the cave. Invariably the cave rock is where most of my hair algae accumulated.

[marinerfr]

how do u kno wen the rock is ready to put in ur tanK???

[Greenmaster]

The only problem that I see, is that I used to have a rock in my tank that had a cavern in it just like the ones you've made. Almost identical, except mine was a natural rock. Anyway, what I have found is that it is a most troubling formation to have a "cave". The reason is that when food or detritus blows into the cave, the current pretty much stops. So these caves become sinks of detritus. I mean it's amazing how much will collect in the bottom of the cave. Invariably the cave rock is where most of my hair algae accumulated.

My rock is so porous that the water flows through... so the snails and crabs will brake it down enough that it will fall through and onto the sand where my worms and such can take care of it.

[Greenmaster]

how do u kno wen the rock is ready to put in ur tanK???

When you can let the rock sit in a bin and the PH stay stable for a week... something I didn't do.

[capecoral]

Also maybe some "forams" will grow on them, looks really cool

[marinerfr]

When you can let the rock sit in a bin and the PH stay stable for a week... something I didn't do.

ok mines been in water for 2 months now and the ph wont drop i prob made 60lbs..its soakin in a garbage can also my test ket is for testing freshwater ph??am i doin something wrong??:hmm4::hmm4::hmm4:

[Greenmaster]

How often are you changing the water? at first it should be every 2-3 days... Once you add water and the PH doesn't go to high then you need to wait a little while longer... if it is still good then you need to do the thing with salt water (the water you take out for your PWC's works well if you have a tank already set up.

[marinerfr]

I am doing water changes everyday and doing a ph test with a freshwater ph test.

[marinerfr]

Nice thanks for sharing

ami doing it right though?

[Greenmaster]

What is your PH? It sounds like you are doing it right. What is the PH of your water when you let it sit for a day?

[beachorama]

Loved the videos Green, great information and demo!!!

My personal concern is how "sharp" the rock is (I have a puffer who is NOT the best swimmer) and wondering how much of a risk cutting up the fish would be on the outer layers of the rocks.?
(I was thinking if the cement mix is upped to 1.5, the the outsides of the rocks may be smoother with the added cement? What do you think?)

PS: This is a really great project: Customized look, environmentally friendly and best of all... inexpensive!

Thanks again.

:beer:

[Greenmaster]

I think for strength everyone should do 1.5 parts cement. I also think that you may need 2 parts for the smother edges.... one thing you could do is make a small batch about 1/2 cup = 1 part. And decide for yourself what is best. I think in mine that they are a little sharp but I hope it will be okay.

[marinerfr]

What is your PH? It sounds like you are doing it right. What is the PH of your water when you let it sit for a day?

lol ph is oof the chart or max wen using the freshwater api ph test funny thing is i tested my tap water (city water) n it also says the ph is off the charts:(:(:(:

[Greenmaster]

So there is your answer... what is the max PH on your chart? maybe you should get a high range PH test that can do at least 8.5 (I spent the $60 for a PH pen and I love it) The water should be under 8.3 after sitting for a week with aeration. Once it is stable you need to start doing it with saltwater because saltwater has a higher PH and will often have a bit more to leach out. Keep me posted.

[marinerfr]

So there is your answer... what is the max PH on your chart? maybe you should get a high range PH test that can do at least 8.5 (I spent the $60 for a PH pen and I love it) The water should be under 8.3 after sitting for a week with aeration. Once it is stable you need to start doing it with saltwater because saltwater has a higher PH and will often have a bit more to leach out. Keep me posted.

ok i will keep you posted but y is my tap water off the charts lol, its cit water?

[Greenmaster]

Your test could be faulty... what is the max PH for your chart.

[marinerfr]

Your test could be faulty... what is the max PH for your chart.

max ph is 7.6

[Greenmaster]

Some city water is above your test kit range. You need a test kit that can test up to 8.5 in order to test your tap water/bucket. The bucket water should be max 8.3 after sitting for a week.

[marinerfr]

Some city water is above your test kit range. You need a test kit that can test up to 8.5 in order to test your tap water/bucket. The bucket water should be max 8.3 after sitting for a week.

does that dpend on how much rock u r curing ? i made 60lbs!

[Greenmaster]

No... when you get a new test kit check it and then I'll be able to help you more.

[marinerfr]

No... when you get a new test kit check it and then I'll be able to help you more.

ok thanx for ur patience

[Greenmaster]

No problem, when do you think you will get that new test kit?

[Matrajeous]

I had a question for smoothing out the rock as well, do you have to use such a large amount of crushed oyster shells or can you play with the ratio's of sand cement and salt to get like an all sand stone? or will that make your structures waaaay unstable??? awsome job by the way!

Matt

[Greenmaster]

With all sand and no shell you will end up with a heavy, not very porous rock... it will also take a lot longer for them to become PH stable.

[marinerfr]

No problem, when do you think you will get that new test kit?

ok tested today and PH was at 12!!!!!!!!!!!!!ahhhh:furious:

[Greenmaster]

what is your tap water at? Also what kind of cement did you use?

[beachorama]

Hey Mr. Green,

I have a used 40 breeder that I'm planning for my first FOWLR.

Can I cure the DIY rock in the tank until it has all leached out? (or should I cure it in separate plastic tubs.)

Do you see any problems with curing it in the tank itself?

Of course I will change out the water and add sand...etc. when curing is complete.

Thanks!!!

[Greenmaster]

Curing in the tank will be fine... if you have something to help with water movement in the tank that will help a lot as well. Also the frequency that you change the water will affect how fast the rocks will cure.

[beachorama]

Curing in the tank will be fine... if you have something to help with water movement in the tank that will help a lot as well. Also the frequency that you change the water will affect how fast the rocks will cure.

OK, cool.

Would a Hang on Whisper filter be good (I'm sure a powerhead would be better though.)

* Oh!!! One more question... Do I need to cure the rock in Saltwater or can I cure it in freshwater for a SW tank? *

Thanks again!!!

[Greenmaster]

You don't need to have the filters in. The hang on would be better then nothing but as you said the powerhead would be better. You can cure it in fresh water to begin with... once the PH is stable you will then have to cure it the rest of the way in SW. When you get to the SW phase though you could change the water once every 3-10 days depending on how the PH is doing.

[beachorama]

You don't need to have the filters in. The hang on would be better then nothing but as you said the powerhead would be better. You can cure it in fresh water to begin with... once the PH is stable you will then have to cure it the rest of the way in SW. When you get to the SW phase though you could change the water once every 3-10 days depending on how the PH is doing.

Great...awesome info!!!

Thanks Greenman!

:bounce3:

[marinerfr]

what is your tap water at? Also what kind of cement did you use?
my water is at 8 and i used portland cement type 1

[Greenmaster]

12... that's a high PH... that's like bleach... That's 10,000 times the PH it's supposed to be. Are you sure?

[marinerfr]

ya i dont understand wats hapening i used rock salt, crushed oyster shell from the feed store and portland cement type 1

[Greenmaster]

Maybe your cement is too thick and will take longer to clear... I would drain all the water fill it up again. Do you have a water softener? If you do have one, I would try to get water prior to going into your softener (usually outside taps are not on the softener).

[marinerfr]

Maybe your cement is too thick and will take longer to clear... I would drain all the water fill it up again. Do you have a water softener? If you do have one, I would try to get water prior to going into your softener (usually outside taps are not on the softener).

no i dont have a softener. I ve been using the outside hose.....ya i noticed it has a little more cement in tha rock....idk wat to do ready to give up:furious::thumbdown

[Greenmaster]

Now that you can test I would change the water every 3 days and test every time before I empty the water so I could see how much/if it's dropping every water change. I would do that 3 or four times before I give up

[marinerfr]

Now that you can test I would change the water every 3 days and test every time before I empty the water so I could see how much/if it's dropping every water change. I would do that 3 or four times before I give up

ok i will try that and let u know

[lordofthereef]

I made something very similar to this about six months back (never saw the vids until today but sort of wish I did since I was going by blind faith when making the stuff). There seem to be a lot of questions about pH, so I thought I would share my own experience. I made about 200 lbs of rock and cured it in a 100g rubbermaid tote (that I bought to make a fuge out of). The pH is almost pointless to sit there and measure early on. Just keep the stuff soaking. If you don't want to change your water out frequently, a splash of muriatic acid will drop the pH nicely (literally just a splash). I got the idea on the forums here from some "reef chemists" (Randy was one of them), so I felt pretty safe in doing so. In my experience there was a lot of precipitate, most likely because I didn't frequently change the water (I was also using RO water because our tap water is just terrible). Once I stopped seeing precipitate, I started testing for pH again. I probably left things curing for nearly four months, but there are no longer any pH swings. The recipe I used was nearly identical to the one I see here, minus the rock salt. The rock I made turned out plenty porous. I do suppose the added porosity may be beneficial, but this rock turns out way more porous than any natural rock I have really ever seen even without the rock salt addition.

[marinerfr]

I made something very similar to this about six months back (never saw the vids until today but sort of wish I did since I was going by blind faith when making the stuff). There seem to be a lot of questions about pH, so I thought I would share my own experience. I made about 200 lbs of rock and cured it in a 100g rubbermaid tote (that I bought to make a fuge out of). The pH is almost pointless to sit there and measure early on. Just keep the stuff soaking. If you don't want to change your water out frequently, a splash of muriatic acid will drop the pH nicely (literally just a splash). I got the idea on the forums here from some "reef chemists" (Randy was one of them), so I felt pretty safe in doing so. In my experience there was a lot of precipitate, most likely because I didn't frequently change the water (I was also using RO water because our tap water is just terrible). Once I stopped seeing precipitate, I started testing for pH again. I probably left things curing for nearly four months, but there are no longer any pH swings. The recipe I used was nearly identical to the one I see here, minus the rock salt. The rock I made turned out plenty porous. I do suppose the added porosity may be beneficial, but this rock turns out way more porous than any natural rock I have really ever seen even without the rock salt addition.

were can i find muriatic acid???? and how long should i let it sit in it?

[Greenmaster]

You would add a splash... I don't know if acetic acid is okay or not (white vinegar has it at 5% and pickling vinegar at 7%) But a cup of that will lower your PH too.

[marinerfr]

You would add a splash... I don't know if acetic acid is okay or not (white vinegar has it at 5% and pickling vinegar at 7%) But a cup of that will lower your PH too.
green master i have concerns plz look in the thread diy rock questions someone is telling me my rock is useless and it will harm my tank wana get ur opinion its on the last page thanx

[Greenmaster]

The funny thing is he told you to do the same thing as I did about 40 minutes later lol. Cook um longer, try some white vinegar. Basically either the pH will drop or it won't...
Did you wash your oyster shell prior to using it? not that it's a big deal...

I still say bring the PH down and monitor the rise in PH, the rinse repeat. For a few weeks, posting your results and then I can give you better advice.

[marinerfr]

The funny thing is he told you to do the same thing as I did about 40 minutes later lol.
Did you wash your oyster shell prior to using it? not that it's a big deal...

I still say bring the PH down and monitor the rise in PH, the rinse repeat. For a few weeks, posting your results and then I can give you better advice.

idk the weird thing was wen i tried rinsing the first bag of oyster shells some of the water would just repeatdly turn mily white ?i bought it at a feed store

[Greenmaster]

Same thing happened with mine. But I continued to wash till it got clear. Just keep me updated on water parameters and what you have done to adjust them. (I just added some more vinegar to my tank last night)

[marinerfr]

Same thing happened with mine. But I continued to wash till it got clear. Just keep me updated on water parameters and what you have done to adjust them. (I just added some more vinegar to my tank last night)

ya i did but rinsed 10 times n it was still whit n seemed like some of it melted wen rinsing?

[Greenmaster]

Again in order to help you more I need to know what you are doing and what your levels are doing.

[imagex]

about to give this a shot... sounds like it'll be fun..

[Greenmaster]

Good Luck and if you have any questions you can PM me or post it on here.

[imagex]

just finished we'll see how it turns out tomorrow..

[capecoral]

Would like to see others vids and pics of making rocks too. Almost has me thinking I could do it in my apt.

[Greenmaster]

Would like to see others vids and pics of making rocks too. Almost has me thinking I could do it in my apt.

There are lots on youtube. If you made it in small enough batches I see no reason why your couldn't do it in your apartment.

very nice videos great info

Glad you liked them :D

[imagex]

turned out alright... alot easier then i thought it would be... another thing i would suggest is a nose and mouth mask... u'll be shooting concrete snot out for a couple of days without it... but other then that very easy diy didnt take any pics of the rock didnt have my camera with me.. but maybe tomorrow i'll take some shots..

[juldelf]

Great vidéos
Thanks

[Phil125]

turned out alright... alot easier then i thought it would be... another thing i would suggest is a nose and mouth mask... u'll be shooting concrete snot out for a couple of days without it... but other then that very easy diy didnt take any pics of the rock didnt have my camera with me.. but maybe tomorrow i'll take some shots..

Definately...

I try to do mine in the backyard when I can. That dust is nasty.

Good way to cure your rock is to setup a rain barrel at the bottom of one of your gutters. Fill that sucker up with rock and let the rain do work for you. If its dry spray the hose in every few days. I have a thousand or so frag disk that have been in the backyard for as long as 3 years. Think they are cured yet LOL?

Also another way is put the frag plugs in some old onion sacks or a 2 liter bottle cut off and poked full of holes. Then drop that in the back of your toilet. Nothing gets the water changed more than that.

[MarineGirl411]

LOL! Love the video of your wife. ;)

:thumbsup: I like your plates. I am going to do some of those. Very informative. Thank you.

[jake levi]

Greenmaster take a bow, nice job and well done.

I used to write on this for GARF and had a similar formula, used several actually,

I wound up with one part cement, one part sand, and two parts oyster shell and one half part rock salt with the other half crushed coral.

I tried different cements, all worked but the white portland worked the best. One thing I tried on a few was to dribble vegetable dyes over the drying rocks.

I have used a stream, but it was more convenient to stack it in 300 gallon round stock tanks, with several powerheads on the sides. And 2 water changes after the first weeks soak.

One other thing I did sometimes was to imprint large shell macaroni on the wet rocks, and pull it off when putting in to soak. Also pushed pcs of macaroni through for more holes but later stopped using the pasta at all, on the GARF site I called them ' rockaroni' .

Small caves were easy to do on a piece of ply on saw horses, take various small bowls, fill with sand and invert on the ply and remove the bowl and then mold the mix over the sand pile, made it easier to make different sized small caves.

It takes a lot of rock to fill a 300 gal stock tank, some of those sat over a winter. But only had 3 of the tanks so kept them working.

At the last I brought them indoors into two 300 gallon tanks of salt water with fluorescents over them, and power heads and got corraline algae started and also pods. Then they were ready to go into frag tanks.

Your post is excellent and your videos well done, I hope you do well with yours.

[dainiusiva]

Great, informative video. Thanks for making and sharing it.

[Greenmaster]

As always, I'm glad people have enjoyed the videos. I can't wait till my tank is finally running.

[ChucksReefs]

Basically what I've done successfully for years. Thanks for spending the time to film this process so others to may enjoy custom shapes and save money over purchased "live" rock.

P.S. I used to let my rock "cure" in a freshwater brook, (located behind my house) when hardened, for a few weeks. My thought was that the constantly running water over the surface helped leech any excessive PH or any trace residue by-product. Also helped buffer the acid conditions in the brook :0)

[freetareef]

I made something very similar to this about six months back (never saw the vids until today but sort of wish I did since I was going by blind faith when making the stuff). There seem to be a lot of questions about pH, so I thought I would share my own experience. I made about 200 lbs of rock and cured it in a 100g rubbermaid tote (that I bought to make a fuge out of). The pH is almost pointless to sit there and measure early on. Just keep the stuff soaking. If you don't want to change your water out frequently, a splash of muriatic acid will drop the pH nicely (literally just a splash). I got the idea on the forums here from some "reef chemists" (Randy was one of them), so I felt pretty safe in doing so. In my experience there was a lot of precipitate, most likely because I didn't frequently change the water (I was also using RO water because our tap water is just terrible). Once I stopped seeing precipitate, I started testing for pH again. I probably left things curing for nearly four months, but there are no longer any pH swings. The recipe I used was nearly identical to the one I see here, minus the rock salt. The rock I made turned out plenty porous. I do suppose the added porosity may be beneficial, but this rock turns out way more porous than any natural rock I have really ever seen even without the rock salt addition.

+1
I had the same experience. it takes a long time to cure. but that is better then $2500 spent for live rock. also the volume of water you are curing in is important. i put as much as i could in the toilet tank. fresh water change 3 or 4 times a day. :idea:

[leemanz28]

I have a slop sink in my basement and took a 32g brute trash can and put a bulkhead in side of it at the top and then put the trash can on a milk crate next to the sink and ran some PVC into the sink and then I run the drain line from my RO filter in the bottom of the trash can so that when I make water the drain keeps water going into the can... good way to dom thing with the RO run off water as well and it keeps it moving ... now i do have 400g + of salt water so my RO runs alot making water...