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thebanker
06/20/2010, 02:10 AM
I know this company makes some dubious products. Particularly, they make a tablet that dissolves calcium and who-knows-what to your tank at an uncontrolled rate (SeaLab No.28).

They also make a product called SeaLab No. 15 DOS. The "DOS" in the name stands for "Dissolved Organic Scavenger." I checked it out, and it looks like a bag of zeolites.

Has anyone tried this product? Is it a bogus rehash of zeovit, or a glorified activated carbon, or could it be useful in some way?

Percula9
06/20/2010, 09:39 AM
I don't think zeolites function in salt water.

reef_doug
06/20/2010, 10:00 AM
I don't think zeolites function in salt water.

There are over 20 different zeolites and a majority of them don't function in saltwater, but a few do. The ZEOvit ones do work in seawater.

Some zeolites are synthetic too.

Boomer
06/20/2010, 10:21 AM
The ZEOvit ones do work in seawater.

No it doesn't :) NO zeolites do about anything we want in seawater accept maybe suck out allot of K+, which we do not want. That ammonia claim by the Zeo people is about 99 % myth.

thebanker
06/20/2010, 01:04 PM
There are over 20 different zeolites and a majority of them don't function in saltwater, but a few do. The ZEOvit ones do work in seawater.

Some zeolites are synthetic too.

Your signature says you run Zeovit. How long have you been running it, and how by-the-book are you with zeo husbandry? (stirring the stones daily and all that)

The ZEOvit ones do work in seawater.

No it doesn't :) NO zeolites do about anything we want in seawater accept maybe suck out allot of K+, which we do not want. That ammonia claim by the Zeo people is about 99 % myth.

The ammonia claim has me raising an eyebrow too... but the zeolites surely provide surface area (including oxygen starved surface area) for bacteria to grow? I don't run Zeovit but surely there is some proof in the pudding.


AND back to the original thought, I wonder if the SeaLab No. 15 DOS could be used w/ carbon & bacteria dosing as a Zeovit "lite"?

reef_doug
06/20/2010, 01:18 PM
Your signature says you run Zeovit. How long have you been running it, and how by-the-book are you with zeo husbandry? (stirring the stones daily and all that)

About 3 yrs, and I'm not by the book with it. I'm going to try EcoBAK shortly in it's place because I like the idea of solid carbon dosing vs. ZEOstart2 & rocks.
I will continue to use some of the ZEOvit supplements (SP, Xtra, AA, PCV, PIF, CS) though.

bertoni
06/20/2010, 04:31 PM
Zeolites can provide surface area, although I don't know enough about their structure to say how much.

I can't find a writeup on SeaLab 15 DOS, so I can't say much about it. Does anyone have a list of ingredients, or a pointer to a good web page? This was all I could find:

http://petsolutions.amazonwebstore.com/SeaLab-15-15-ORGANIC-SCAVENGER-12/M/B000R2XUK8.htm?traffic_src=froogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_source=froogle

It claims to be an adsorbent, which makes me think zeolite or activated carbon, but it could be something like Purigen.

thebanker
06/20/2010, 04:43 PM
Here's the largest picture of it I could find. And what appears to be the manufacturer's description. There's very little info out there.

Superb broad-spectrum adsorbent of dissolved organics. Removes fatty acids and oils originating in food products, as well as other organic compounds released into the water from your aquarium residents. This unique product can actually remove dissolved wastes that your protein skimmer may miss. Packed in a micron bag that can treat 80 gallons for up to 6 months.

http://allmypetsupplies.com/p-388-sea-lab-15.aspx

thebanker
06/20/2010, 04:48 PM
It claims to be an adsorbent, which makes me think zeolite or activated carbon, but it could be something like Purigen.

I've seen and touched it at my LFS. It's in a bag of similar construction to the small bags of purigen, only with a looser mesh. It looks and feels like a bag of rocks.

bertoni
06/20/2010, 04:57 PM
Well, it does say "zeolytes" on the label, so I'm fairly skeptical as to its value.

Boomer
06/20/2010, 07:44 PM
That bottle says it is " Dissolved Organic Scavenger". That is a real thing in resins and is the same thing as SeaChem Labs Purigen. They work fine in seawater but there is not ionic exchange. I think they are just playing with the word "zeolytes" to fake us out. Purolite has a whole field of DOSR/OSR

bertoni
06/21/2010, 03:52 PM
:lol: Well, if we only knew what it really is...

Boomer
06/21/2010, 04:17 PM
Well, Jon the really funny thing on the bottle is "Self-regenerating" Now that is a good trick :lol: Despite that, it sounds like SeaChems Pruigen or Hypersorb which can be regen with bleach and is part of Purolite's line -up. Some of these are re-gen with bleach and others with NaCl, what mostly of seawater is and is probably where they got that dumb as thought from :) These "eat" the organics out of the resin. I was recently asked about this stuff for a large public aqairuiam interested in OSR


Purolite A500 DL is a macroporous poly(vinylbenzyl-trimethylammonium) exchanger which has been designed for use as an organic scavenger, e.g. for the removal of tannins, fulvic and humic acids, from industrial and domestic water supplies. It will either replace, or be used as an adjunct to, the traditional carbon adsorbents in special applications. In these, use of this resin is indicated when the requirements are for good thermal stability, together with excellent resistance to osmotic shock, and high reversible sorptive capacity for water-soluble complex organic materials of medium to high molecular weight, whether ionized or un-ionized.

The resin is normally worked in the chloride salt form, ahead of conventional deionizing systems, thus protecting the following anion unit or mixed bed from organic fouling and consequent reduction in operating efficiency. Regeneration is effected using 10% NaCl. The incorporation of 1-2% NaOH in the brine promotes the removal of the more strongly-held color bodies. For applications in sugar decolorization, the specially graded Purolite A500PS is recommended. In cases where operation is at temperatures of less than 60°C (140°F), Purolite A860 can also be evaluated. The comparative performance of these two resins depends upon the particular properties of the organic matter being removed. Performance trials over at least 5 cycles are necessary to evaluate the relative merits of the two resins.

HighlandReefer
06/21/2010, 04:42 PM
Boomer are these products related in any way to this article?


Nitrate removal in a closed marine system through the ion exchange membrane bioreactor
Cristina T. Matosa, b, Ana M. Sequeirac, Svetlozar Velizarova, João G. Crespoa and Maria A.M. Reisa, ,
aCQFB/REQUIMTE, Department of Chemistry, FCT, Universidade Nova de Lisboa, P-2829-516 Caparica, Portugal
bIBET – Instituto de Biologia Experimental e Tecnológica, P-2781-901 Oeiras, Portugal
cIMAR – DCEA, Institute of Marine Research, Centre for Ocean and Environment, FCT, Universidade Nova de Lisboa, P-2829-516 Caparica, Portugal
Received 24 July 2008; revised 29 October 2008; accepted 14 November 2008. Available online 21 November 2008.

Abstract
The accumulation of nitrate in closed marine systems presents a problem for both the marine life and the environment. The present study, proposes the application of the ion exchange membrane bioreactor (IEMB) concept for removing nitrate from marine systems, such as aquaculture tanks or marine aquariums.

The results obtained demonstrate that the IEMB was able to remove naturally accumulated nitrate from water taken from a public marine aquarium (Oceanário de Lisboa) and bioconvert it, in an isolated compartment (biocompartment), to molecular nitrogen, thus preventing secondary contamination of the treated water by microbial cells, metabolic by-products and excess of carbon source (ethanol). This system allowed for the removal of nitrate at concentrations of 251 and 380 mg/l down to below 27 mg/l exchanging it for chloride.

Under the studied operating conditions, the IEMB proves to be a selective nitrate removing technology preserving the initial water composition with respect to cations, due to the Donnan exclusion effect from the membrane, and minimizing the counter diffusion of anions other than nitrate and chloride, due to the use of water with the same ionic composition in the biocompartment. This is an advantage of the IEMB concept, since the quality of the water produced would allow for the reutilisation of the treated water in the aquarium, thereby reducing both the wastewater volume and the use of fresh water.

bertoni
06/21/2010, 04:52 PM
I saw the part about "self-regeneration" and just laughed. For the original poster, I suggest sticking with Purigen, unless you're interested in experimenting.

Boomer
06/21/2010, 04:59 PM
NO, but that sounds cool as the are talking a membrane. I have heard of membranes like this before but not for app's in seawater. This thing works via Donnan exclusion to include a bichamber for conversion to N2 gas. There is allot more going on here.

HighlandReefer
06/21/2010, 05:08 PM
Thanks for the input Boomer. :)

I just ran across this article and then searched for these ion exchange membrane bioreactors. They are expensive. Perhaps they will eventually become cheap enough for hobby uses.

Boomer
06/21/2010, 05:11 PM
Yah but thanks Cliff for that, as my large public aqairuiam boys me be interested in that :D

HighlandReefer
06/21/2010, 05:13 PM
I forgot to add the linky:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TGF-4TYYTCG-B&_user=10&_coverDate=07%2F15%2F2009&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1377055708&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=466907d803000144922fd415e0a110da

thebanker
06/21/2010, 05:39 PM
Well, Jon the really funny thing on the bottle is "Self-regenerating" Now that is a good trick :lol:

Maybe "self-regenerating" means jiggling the zeolites so the bacterial mulm comes off?

GhettoVit? :lol:

elijaher
06/21/2010, 08:31 PM
Speaking of Sea - Lab have anybody try see-lab no14ph?