NP Bio-Pellets

[ncny21802]

Looking for someone with some experience with this product..or similar products. I currently run GFO, Purigen, and ROX Carbon 24/7. I know this product will eliminate the need for GFO and Purigen...or so one would assume. Would it also eliminate the need for carbon?

[bertoni]

There are lots of threads in this forum on the various solid carbon dosing methods. I wouldn't count on the pellets to remove the need for Purigen or carbon. The pellets are intended to fuel bacteria that feed on nitrate and phosphorus in the water column, or precursors to them. Activated carbon and Purigen are likely to bind compounds that bacteria don't consume readily.

GFO might or might not be needed along with the pellets. Some people find that the nitrate gets exhausted by the pellets, but there's leftover phosphate in the system.

[mal1099]

my vertex bio pellets say do not use with other phosphate removing media..

[ncny21802]

Here's my thing...I have extremely low Phosphates right now...that is not a problem. My nitrates is what I want to reduce. I know about finding the source, well I know the source. I have an overstocked SPS tank. All the corals have great color and growth. the nitrates aer not effecting them but I'd like them to be lower. I have been running Purigen now for 2 weeks and have not seen a drop in nitrates. I do weekly water changes of 15% but they stay around 30. This is why I decided to run the bio pellets. Figured it was worth a shot. I don't want to run all 4 though. SO....Should I run the pellets and Carbon only while monitoring Phosphates? Or will just pellets suffice is what I'm wondering. Is the Purigen not working because it hasn't had enough time? Water is crystal clear..everything is fine, I just want to lower Nitrates and wanted to only run 1 reactor if possible

[HighlandReefer]

Since your phosphate is low, it may be best to try stop running GFO along with implementing the use of the solid carbon source. If after you use the solid carbon source for a while, your phosphate starts to climb, you will need to start running GFO again to maintain a phosphate level below 0.03 ppm. If your phosphate level is too low while using the solid carbon source, the phosphate could possibly become a limiting factor for bacterial growth. The goal is to maintain your phosphate level below 0.03 ppm (above this level, this can slow the growth of coral) & not so low as to limit growth of bacteria and coral (say below 0.005, which is not detectable by test kits). If you feed enough high phosphate food daily, this may drive your phosphate level too high, even with the use of the solid or liquid carbon sources.

I would continue running GAC, since it will help remove many of the dissolved organics that skimming can't remove.

Randy provides details regarding the dissolved organics in one's water column in this article and why running GAC may be appropriate to help limit the amount in your water. Too much dissolved organics causes problems for coral too.

Organic Compounds in the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/rhf/index.htm

[tmz]

I agree with Cliff.
However, at some point Gfo is usually needed to keep PO4 sub 0.05ppm in my experience even with carbon dosing in a system with fish.The need for gac/puigen is likely greater than before carbon dosing since you are adding extra organic material to the system when you use an organic carbon source.

[ncny21802]

Thanks Guys..So let me ask this then...If I will still run the GFO/Purigen/GAC..what is the point of this product? From what I read it will not lower Nitrates and Phosphates, onbly maintain already low levels. Wouldn't large water changes do the same thing? My phosphates are fine, tank is great. GFO seems to eb doing the trick for Phosphates, ROX is working great, to lower my nitrates and keep them low I can just feed less..use foods with lower phosphates...and up my weekly water change from 10%-15/20%? I'm on the fence on this stuff..since my system isn't large..it may be just as easy to not play with any new products and continue as I am.

[bluereefs]

I can not advice will you use bio pellets or not, is up to you, but I stronlgy recomend using activated carbon all the time, with or without bio pellets/purigen, GFO... IMO activated carbon is number one filtration media.

[bertoni]

The pellets work to lower nitrate and phosphate by feeding carbon to bacteria, with a lot of the resulting growth skimmed out of the tank. They can reduce the levels of both nitrate and phosphate in the water column.

The bacteria use nitrogen and phosphorus in some ratio, which might be variable within limits. If the input to the tank is heavy on phosphate, which seems to be common with the foods we feed, the bacteria won't be able to remove enough of the phosphorus, since they'll have run out of a source of fixed nitrogen. So some tanks seems to require GFO.

I don't think that GAC or Purigen are going to remove significant amounts of nitrogen from the system. If the nitrate and phosphate levels are low enough for your animals, there's no need to worry. :)

[ncny21802]

Read this http://www.saskreef.ca/forums/showthread.php?threadid=7983&page=1

Oceanic makes these pellets. This Ian guy who is the rep I assume..states they don't lower nitrate or phospahte. I had them ordered then called PA and cancelled my order after reading his thread. I was sold based on comments here until I read this from the company who manufactures them...Seems contradicting to what I've been hearing but it was enough to make me wait

[bertoni]

There's not much information in that thread. I don't see why the product wouldn't lower nitrate and phosphate, assuming it works at all. They all seem to do so in other people's tanks. I'm not sure how anyone could design such a product that could exactly maintain the current levels in a tank, in any case.

[tmz]

I didn't get much out of that post either. There are a few mistatements in it.

Wether one uses polymer pellet a,b,c ,vodka, vinegar,ascorbic acid,glucose etc. or combinations the net result is an addition of organic carbon.This requires attention to exporting organics. Non photosynthetic organisms need organic carbon , phosphorous and nitrogen as food. These elements are consumed in certain ratios which vary somewhat by organism. The most commonly noted ratio is the Redfield ratio which is 116 parts carbon to 16 parts nitrate to 1 part phosphate which was measured by weight in phytoplankton as I recall. Again this ratio varies somewhat from organism to organism but it gives a good perspective on relatively how little phosphate vs nitrate and how little nitrogen vs carbon is taken up. So if more carbon is dosed heterotrophic (non photosynthetic) bacteria proliferate to consume it along with available NO3 and PO4 .( Note: PO4 and NO3 are not removable by skimming or granulated activated carbon but some organics containing them are) These bacteria and some of their by products are removable by skimming and/or activated carbon or other organic removers and when these are removed the NO3 and PO4 they contain are also removed thus reducing these nutrients.

I don't think its necessary to dose bacteria along with carbon dosing as there are plenty in the aquarium which can grow to the task, in my experience over the last 18 months of carbon dosing to my system. Some like to supplement them though. As for monocultures , dosing bacteria is a backwards way to deal with concern about one or another strain of bacteria dominating because it has an advantage with a particular carbon source.Most who dose bacteria advocate daily or at least periodic additions which I think demonstrates that the strains dosed are not very viable long term in the aquarium. Varying the carbon source should promote adequate diversity in bacteria by supporting different strains of bacteria indigenous to the aquarium , in my opinion.

[mal1099]

Well im using the vertex bio pellets. When i started my nitrates where 5-10 and phos was 0.1 in 5 days they were both 0. Another thing i have found is im cleaning my glass like never of algea. The algea that was there has died off since i started this.

[tegee]

Dumb question.....what is the difference between NP Pellets and Vertex Pellets?

[bertoni]

If you could look at the ingredients or maybe a web page, the companies might tell you enough to get some ideas, but I don't have the products at hand. I don't think we know enough about these products yet for the details to help much, but there might be some warning signs, I suppose.