black tang or hybrid with scopas?

[kinlayan]

Hi guys was wondering what , the fish experts think ... i am inclined to think it is a hybrid due to the lines on body but im not 100% sure it is still fairly small being a juvenile.. any ideas?

3 of the best pictures i could get as it is still shy being new to the aquarium

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/42085951@N06/4730363644/" title="2 by Kinlayan, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1436/4730363644_09204d6e72.jpg" width="500" height="332" alt="2" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/42085951@N06/4729718641/" title="3 by Kinlayan, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1137/4729718641_d72088d588.jpg" width="500" height="332" alt="3" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/42085951@N06/4729718525/" title="1 by Kinlayan, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1372/4729718525_43752bdf43.jpg" width="500" height="332" alt="1" /></a>

[SDguy]

The snout doesn't look any longer than a regular scopas. Couldn't it just be a black scopas?

[kinlayan]

well juvenile black tangs dont have the long snouts of adults but i have also not seen such a black scopas before i am not sure? that is why i am more sure it is probably a hybrid Rostratum/scopas

[thor32766]

This is a scopas. I have seen many young scopas tangs that you would sware its a black tang. As they grew they will slowly lose the black coloring. black tangs will not have any stripes on them no matter what the age.

[euod]

Nice hybrid due to higher dorsal fin and the apparent colors. Congrats. What size?

[kinlayan]

thor32766 - i agree the stripes are not typical of rostratum but i have never seen a black scopas before of this colour can you show me some pics of black scopas that have this blue black colouring? i would be more inclined to say hybrid more than black scopas

euod - yeah it has higher dorsal than some of the scopas i have seen it is about 4cm in length

[Yurivd]

it also looks like a hybrid to me

[Pepsi2008]

its a black scopas - a black tang looks identicle to a yellow tang - just black lol

[kinlayan]

yuri - i am also begining to think this

pepsi2008- again please can you show me a pic of black scopas this colour? he is in an aquarium with yellow tangs and he does look like them with slightly longer nose maybe 1-2mm the lines are only visible with flash photography otherwise he is quite black/charcoal to the naked eye

i know John Copps has had both species maybe he can give an opinion? ;)

[tanglovers]

Looks like a dark varient scopas to me. I own a scopas, a black and a confirmed hybrid (black x scopas) and based on this I would say full scopas. It looks just like my scopas when it was smaller. My scopas still retained most of the dark color as it grew.

[Yurivd]

i have got a new gem tang at the same size (4cm) and the gems nose is a lot smaller

[kinlayan]

Tanglovers can you show me some pics of your fish and your hybrid please?

[tanglovers]

I will work on getting some pics. The black and the scopas will be easy to get pics of. The hybrid is a newer addition and is in a conditioning tank.

One of the biggest give aways to the hybrid rostratum x scopas is the length of the nose. My hybrid in body shape is just like the rostratum but has the patterning of the scopas. With the size of yours, it is likely a scopas but if it develops a longer nose as it gets larger it could be a hybrid.

[29reef]

It's very hard to tell if the fish is in fact a hybrid; you'll need to wait untill it's larger. Where was it collected?

A note on scopas colorations as I've seen many that range from very dark browns and blacks to even a few that were almost a pale blue. So color is not the deciding factor IMO.

[Ian]

Did someone say Hybrid? Where's Maneyapanda, I'm sure his ears are ringing! :lol:

[Yurivd]

from what he told me
he got this fish from a guy ho got it from israel and that guy got it from xmas island

[tanglovers]

If collected in Xmas it could be a hybrid, time will tell. My hybrid came out of the Xmas Islands.

[kinlayan]

yeah its source of origin was apparently Christmas island thing is i have it with my yellow tangs and its nose appears thinner and slightly longer than theirs but it is also a much smaller fish than my yellow tangs. The lines in the pics are not visible when you see the fish without flash photography. I would love to see pictures of black scopas tangs though not hybrids so i can see if they are similar if anyone has please post

[copps]

Hey Shawn, beautiful fish! That must be very exciting to get such a unique fish there in South Africa, half way around the world from its origin in the central Pacific. I own many Zebrasoma through the five species I enjoy (I avoid the two sailfin species as they grow large), including multiple specimens of both rostratum, scopas, and a few hybrids of the two. I've seen them through all sizes, and yours appears to be a typical rostratum/scopas hybrid. It is tougher to tell on small individuals such as yours, but after seeing many you begin to tell the differences. There are differences in color, but putting all color aside you could tell the difference in specimens of your size, which appears to be a large juvenile. Very small specimens require taking their color into account. Large specimens are very easy to tell apart. Z. rostratum has a large range, but are not common at any part of that range, including Christmas Island which is the only place they are collected for the trade. As full rostratum has been fished hard at Christmas, it appears that the hybrids are becoming more common than full rostratum... years ago it was not like that and black tangs could be had for a retail price of $100. I believe the rostratum that are left are unable to find a mate of their own species and spawn with the scopas at Christmas... I have many friends in Hawaii that import from Christmas and full rostratum are becoming VERY rare... the hybrids are still rare but appear to be coming in with more frequency, with many being sold as full rostratum... Anyway, here are some shots of different sizes of specimens I own...

First off... here's your BIG boy...

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx114/johnjcoppolino/Zebrasoma_rostratum_scopas_hybrid_l.jpg

Next a beautiful medium hybrid...

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx114/johnjcoppolino/rostratum_scopas_hybrid_medium1.jpg

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx114/johnjcoppolino/scopas_rostratum_hybrid-1.jpg

And finally some tiny guys... smaller than yours!

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx114/johnjcoppolino/rostratum_scopas_hybrids_small.jpg

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx114/johnjcoppolino/rostratum_scopas_hybrids2_small.jpg

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx114/johnjcoppolino/rostratum_scopas_hybrid_small2.jpg

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx114/johnjcoppolino/rostratum_scopas_hybrid_small1.jpg

Copps :)

[euod]

Wow! What a collection.

[copps]

Outside of the seven angelfish genera, Zebrasoma is my favorite... :)

[gasman059]

rip
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n320/gasman059/IMG_7857copy.jpg[/IMG]

[kinlayan]

Wow many thanks for the pictures! John yes they do look very similar to mine i really appreciate your input thank you! Also How do you find this fish in terms of temperament do you keep them together or in different aquariums? Yes it is exciting you are right i have been fortunate enough to get quite a few very nice pacific fishes(Crosshatch trigger pair, Mystery wrasse, Potters) and they are rare finds here in South Africa so when one gets the opportunity it is hard to pass up.

thanks for the picture Gasman ! Sorry that you no longer have it

[zygote2k]

Has anyone done any DNA testing on these fish or is all this just pure speculation?

[brad]

Amazing how hard it is to tell the difference between an $8 fish and an $800 fish.

[copps]

Has anyone done any DNA testing on these fish or is all this just pure speculation?

DNA work has not been done, but that does not mean it is pure speculation... between meristics done and the location where these specimens have all been collected, it is "as sure as you could be without DNA" that these fish are hybrids.

[coralreefdoc]

I fully concur with Copps' statement above

[sdcfish]

Just spotted four of these xlarge hybrids mixed in with our recent Black Tang shipment.....from Tuamotu Islands. Beautiful, but definitely a difference in coloration both on the body and back area. Their noses are a fraction shorter too.

I was trolling for some info on them to send the supplier, and stumbled across this thread. Thanks guyzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Eric

[Chicago]

Who has these for sale?

[sdcfish]

I am not soliciting on this forum although that is the result of my post. If the moderators allow it, I can mention some ways to purchase them. Or please just delete my previous post. Thanks

[joeisgod47]

What do you guys think

[ali1]

Black or hybrid

[alton]

I am no pro but anytime you see green on a black tang I would think Hybrid

[Dmorty217]

What do you guys think

I agree with alton, hybrid. A better shot from the side will help too. Even the hybrids that don't have green markings won't have a pure black body. Any pattern you can see on the body equals hybrid

[joeisgod47]

He told me it was a hybrid and wants 220 for it. Good deal?

[Dmorty217]

He told me it was a hybrid and wants 220 for it. Good deal?

From Ross? Yes $220 is a good deal for a hybrid. I have seen them as high as $350 before

[d-man]

Yes, as stated above, hybrid. Short snout.
And as Derek stated as well, $220 is a good price.

[joeisgod47]

Cool thanks guys!

[Adamc1303]

I know the thread is old. But what do you say about this guy? Hybrid or regular scopas?



https://www.dropbox.com/s/ihdsbwsy4wev0og/Screenshot%202016-11-22%2000.34.54.png?dl=0