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kkrawler
06/28/2010, 05:19 PM
I've been working on setting up a new tank, it's a 90gallon with 150 lbs of LR. It's been running now for about 3 months. I've been taking it slow trying to do things proper and and getting all the numbers where they need to be before stocking with any fish or corals.

I Discovered a little over 3 weeks ago I had a huge phosphate issue somewhere between 3-5. so I got some RowaPhos. Within the first week my Phosphates dropped to about 1 however, it hasn't change either since then. It's been sitting at 1 for the past 2 weeks.

Does it just need more time? or is there something else I can do to help it along?

Thanks
kk

HighlandReefer
06/28/2010, 05:23 PM
With phosphate levels above 0.5 ppm your RowaPhos can become saturated within 24 hrs. and will not remove any more phosphate. You will need to change the RowaPhos at least weekly until you get your levels below 0.03 ppm phosphate.

kkrawler
06/28/2010, 05:45 PM
I did change it 1 week ago so it's been running for 1 week with a new batch of RowaPhos with no change

HighlandReefer
06/28/2010, 05:54 PM
What is probably going on is that your rock and sand have absorbed phosphate and now are releasing it as quickly as you are taking it out with the RowaPhos. I would continue to change out the RowaPhos once per week. It will eventually drop once your phosphate is removed from the rock and sand.

kkrawler
06/28/2010, 05:57 PM
that sucks! It's starting to become a very expensive fix :P I'm glad I bought the big RowaPhos!

bertoni
06/28/2010, 05:59 PM
I'd get a second opinion on the test kit, and also test some RO/DI water, but I agree that the live rock and sand might be leaching phosphate. That seems to be fairly common.

1sirjustis
06/28/2010, 06:17 PM
Kkrawler, im having what would appear to be the same problems.... i have a huge outbreak of hair algea. and everyone is saying that the phosphates are locked up in the HA(hair algea)! and that my test will not detect it because its locked up! NOW! if its in the sand, and live rock, how in the world do you get it out???? i have the same setup a 90 gallon... you gotta walk us through this, so we can get a better understanding of things...

kkrawler
06/28/2010, 06:45 PM
Bertoni - It's a brand new test kit but as we all know we have no idea how long it was sitting on the shelf before i bought it. I'll have to compare it with one at my LFS. I'll let you know how it goes.

kkrawler
06/28/2010, 06:57 PM
1sir - I'll keep you update as I go as I'm still learning as I go. I've done a huge amount of reading and just when you think you know what to do something get thrown in there to mess it all up! lol

This is what I have been doing so far.
1. filled a filter sock with rowaphos
2. placed the sock w/rowaphos and the media chamber of my skimmer
3. ever other day I have removed the media sock and agitated the RowaPhos with in the sock then reinstalled it.
4 Changed the first batch of RowaPhos after 2 weeks
5. After this week I will once again replace the batch of RowaPhos.

If anyone see's a flaw in what I've done so far or has any tips I will appreciate it!

Psionicdragon
06/28/2010, 07:04 PM
I think it may work better in a phosban reactor instead of just sitting in the filter sock. might absorb more before you need to change out.

save money if it does work that way :)

Stuart60611
06/28/2010, 07:05 PM
Phosphates build up in the rock and resulting algae is fueled, in part, by organic material that settles into the rocks. A very useful method to combat this consists of power washing all the rock. Turn off all pumps so that there is no water movement. Take a maxijet 1200 or the like and from the highest rocks down to the the lowest power wash the rocks so that all the debris settles on the substrate. Once the debris settles, vacuum out the debris and do a large water change. Rocks over time absorb a ton of organic material which causes high phosphates. You will be amazed at the amount of organic matter you will export from the system using this method.

sasharotty
06/28/2010, 07:07 PM
I think it may work better in a phosban reactor instead of just sitting in the filter sock. might absorb more before you need to change out.

save money if it does work that way :)

I was going to say the same thing, get yourself a reactor.Fairly cheap and you can aggresively remove it instead of passivly.

1sirjustis
06/28/2010, 07:22 PM
stuart 60611 that sounds like a great idea never heard trying to do that! i think thats alot better than scrubbing the rock outside the tank. now as far as the sand and rock being leached? how do you remedy that? water changes? big ones at that? highlandreefer would like to hear from you on these meathods too.

bertoni
06/28/2010, 07:36 PM
If the live rock is leaching phosphate, then you can try keeping the water low in phosphate and wait until the phosphate is gone, or you can soak the live rock in an acid solution for 20 minutes, to dissolve any parts contaminated with phosphate. The acid bath is a drastic measure, to say the least.

Large water changes can cause problems, and I'd avoid them. They'd also be very expensive over time.

1sirjustis
06/28/2010, 07:38 PM
how can large WC be a problem????

teesquare
06/28/2010, 07:44 PM
Phosphates build up in the rock and resulting algae is fueled, in part, by organic material that settles into the rocks. A very useful method to combat this consists of power washing all the rock. Turn off all pumps so that there is no water movement. Take a maxijet 1200 or the like and from the highest rocks down to the the lowest power wash the rocks so that all the debris settles on the substrate. Once the debris settles, vacuum out the debris and do a large water change. Rocks over time absorb a ton of organic material which causes high phosphates. You will be amazed at the amount of organic matter you will export from the system using this method.

I do something similar.....

I put a long filter sock - 200 microns on the pipes from the overflow - where they feed into the sump. I leave the pump running, while I use an MJ 1200 to blow all the fine detritus out of the rock, keeping it in suspension. The filter sock will catch the debris, where you can easily remove the sock, thus removing a lot of junk.

Works well....
T

bertoni
06/28/2010, 07:51 PM
Large water changes can change water parameters quite a bit, and often involve exposing live rock and corals to air, which can be an issue, particularly if some sponge gets killed in the process.

1sirjustis
06/28/2010, 07:53 PM
POST 100!!!! YA! as long as i dont expose the rock or coral i should be good! TEESQUARE good advice!!!

teesquare
06/28/2010, 08:42 PM
Thanks! - Just make sure that your filter sock is positioned such that it cannot cause an overflow of your sump - should the sock become plugged up from debris! And - remove it after the power-cleaning of the rock, so that you export the junk!

CONGRATS on 100 posts!

T

1sirjustis
06/28/2010, 08:48 PM
question??? by removing the HA are we exporting the phosphates or other contaminates??? or are we just cleaning up the mess phosphates or nitrates can make????

bertoni
06/28/2010, 08:51 PM
Removing the hair algae exports nutrients, and it's a fine thing to do, but I wouldn't spend more than 5 minutes a week on it. There's no sense in making your tank work an unpleasant chore.

1sirjustis
06/28/2010, 08:56 PM
if im gonna take it out im gonna do it like no other! im gonna have the pumps off and toothbrush in hand and power head ready to go!!!! and fresh salt ready to go in after i blow the rock off

reef_doug
06/28/2010, 09:23 PM
if im gonna take it out im gonna do it like no other! im gonna have the pumps off and toothbrush in hand and power head ready to go!!!! and fresh salt ready to go in after i blow the rock off

This works! I battled a hair algae problem even though my PO4 was .03 (Salifert). My rocks absorbed the PO4 over the years. I know blow off the rocks every 2 wks and take a stiff brush and toothbrush to any algae spots. Amazingly I haven't had a hair algae bloom since I've adopted this approach.
Goes to show that a low PO4 in the water column doesn't guarrantee you won't have an algae problem.

1sirjustis
06/29/2010, 02:00 PM
thanks reef doug! im on my way into my living room right now to start scrubbing! hope this is a leap in the rite direction..... (nail biter)

bertoni
06/29/2010, 02:56 PM
Okay, as long as you don't drive yourself batty. :) It should help, although it might take more or less time, depending on how much phosphate is in the system and other factors.

teesquare
06/29/2010, 03:04 PM
OP - just bear in mind that removal of the algae is treating the symptom.

Removal of the nutrients before they cause algae - is treating the cause.

There are good reasons to want to do both,( mostly - aesthitics when removing the algae) but bertoni is right - don't let the battle with the algae burn you out of the hobby.

Start examining the cause of your algae and phosphate battle.
Foods contibute...feeding too much? Or do you need to rinse the frozen foods when they thaw - prior to feeding?

Source water...tested it? Sure it is clean? Any sand/sand-bed? And- the live rock can also adsorb phosphates as well.

T

1sirjustis
06/29/2010, 07:11 PM
scrubbed the rock in the tank, and the sock filter idea was a GREAT idea.... along with about 17 gallons of fresh salt!!

teesquare
06/29/2010, 07:26 PM
Glad to hear!

I blast out the sock filters with a hose, and then soak them in bleach/water solution for a day or two, then rinse, rinse, rinse, and use again. It helps if you have several on hand for the big cleanups.
T

kkrawler
06/30/2010, 02:23 PM
Wow! this is turning into an awesome thread.

I have noticed some hair algae on a few rocks, I think I'll take out those rocks and give them a good scrubbing then reintroduce them into the tank. Plus I think I might have picked up an aptasia hitchhiker on one of the rocks, I'll just get rid of that too before that becomes an issue.

kkrawler
06/30/2010, 02:24 PM
POST 100!!!! YA! as long as i dont expose the rock or coral i should be good! TEESQUARE good advice!!!

I'm half way there :celeb3:

teesquare
06/30/2010, 02:38 PM
KKrawler - I recently tried the "Aiptasia -X" product from Red Sea...works great!
HTH

T

kkrawler
07/05/2010, 03:39 PM
I still wiping some greenish/brown algae off the glass side of the tank every other day. It feels like this process is taking forever!!