PDA

View Full Version : Cutting down on electrical costs


Spartanman22
07/04/2010, 01:54 PM
The electrical bill has gotten pretty pricey and my parents are getting a bit annoyed (I'm 18 and in high school). So, I think I have come to the conclusion to break down my 75 in wall reef. I plan on keeping my 20g seahorse tank and just maintaining that. However, I was planning on making it into a softie/lps possible some simple sps tank along with the seahorses. But, I would like to make this energy efficient, but I also can't break the bank. So, I was thinking of
1. TEK 24" 4 bulb T5 fixture
2. Eheim return pump
3. Octopus NW 110 skimmer
How is this looking electrical wise? The eheim pump seems to put out little electrical consumption but I can't seem to compare since most otherpumps of similar gph don't give electrical consumptions in their descriptions. And, I'm also not sure about the octopus skimmer either. I will have around 50 gallons of total system volume. Whats a good skimmer that will not need to be upgraded in the future that will handle a medium to heavy bioload in a 20 gallon that also doesn't suck up electricity?

sterling18
07/04/2010, 03:09 PM
The electrical bill has gotten pretty pricey and my parents are getting a bit annoyed (I'm 18 and in high school). So, I think I have come to the conclusion to break down my 75 in wall reef. I plan on keeping my 20g seahorse tank and just maintaining that. However, I was planning on making it into a softie/lps possible some simple sps tank along with the seahorses. But, I would like to make this energy efficient, but I also can't break the bank. So, I was thinking of
1. TEK 24" 4 bulb T5 fixture
2. Eheim return pump
3. Octopus NW 110 skimmer
How is this looking electrical wise? The eheim pump seems to put out little electrical consumption but I can't seem to compare since most otherpumps of similar gph don't give electrical consumptions in their descriptions. And, I'm also not sure about the octopus skimmer either. I will have around 50 gallons of total system volume. Whats a good skimmer that will not need to be upgraded in the future that will handle a medium to heavy bioload in a 20 gallon that also doesn't suck up electricity?

Get a kill a watt meter and measure your usage.

I used to live in Rockland County, and Orange and Rockland was expensive compared to Utah power.

ludnix
07/04/2010, 03:52 PM
Danner mag drives have their wattage listed on marinedepot.com. I don't know about other pumps but you should be able to find the wattage at some online retailer if not the first the one you're looking at.

Ask your parents what your kwh price is. I pay up to $0.40 per kilowatt depending on how much I use (the more I use the more the price goes up). Once you know what the kilowatt price is you can use an online calculator to determine how much each pump will cost you annually. It might turn out that the more efficient pump doesn't pay off for it's high initial price, in which case you might as well buy the cheaper pump and give your parents the different to help pay the bill.

You can determine the monthly cost of an item (if you know the kwh price, wattage and duration) using some simple math:

Determine the hours your item is on for: if you're lights were on for 8 hours a day for a month it might be around 240 hours (8x30). If you're using the T5 setup you mentioned it will be 96watts (4x24w). 240 hours x 96 watts ~ 24,000watt hours. 24,000/1000 = 24kilowatts. At $0.18 per kilowatt you'd pay $4.30 a month to run the lights.

If you do that for your potential pumps you can determine how long they will take in electrical savings to pay off the difference in their presumably higher price.

If the lower wattage pump is cheaper than it's moot and that's the obvious choice to make.

Spartanman22
07/04/2010, 03:57 PM
ok thanks I'll do that. Does anyone have any suggestions on the octopus NW 110. Is there something better I could be running on a total system volume of roughly 50 gallons medium-heavily stocked mixed reef? I was looking at the bubble Magus NAC3 but don't really know much about them. I'm not really sure which skimmers are quality for smaller tanks.

DDRR
07/04/2010, 07:35 PM
Look at the Tunze Skimmers, Pumps, and Powerheads all very energy efficient and work very well.

TheH
07/04/2010, 09:01 PM
You know you may want to use the kill-a-watt first. Your tank might not be consuming as much as your parents think. Electrical consumption tends to go up during these summer months because of a/c usage as well.

MCCOOL
07/04/2010, 09:17 PM
I've never kept them, but don't seahorses require cool water, which would make a chiller a necessity. That'll significantly add to the electricity usage. I'd keepthe 75g reef and forget the seahorses personally. My 80g system runs less than $20 a month

capecoral
07/04/2010, 09:50 PM
You don't have to be 18 to want to keep electricity costs down :)

Spartanman22
07/04/2010, 10:15 PM
They don't have to have a chiller I'm in the basement so their tank typically doesn't go higher than 76 degrees and if it does a fan comes on. And I have estimated my total on electrical is about 80 dollars a month and since my dad was just laid off I wanna cut back as much as possible.

MCCOOL
07/04/2010, 10:43 PM
Sorry, my impression was they needed it <74 or bacteria infections became an issue, like I said, I don't have any real experience wih them. I know they can't be kept with stinging LPS (torches, hammers, etc.) but shouldn't be a problem with SPS and softies.

Spartanman22
07/04/2010, 11:17 PM
Ya 76 is the highest I would go and I like to keep it below 76. But yes I was planning on a softie tank with some sps that won't require high flow.

epicfish
07/04/2010, 11:21 PM
Ask your parents what your kwh price is. I pay up to $0.40 per kilowatt depending on how much I use (the more I use the more the price goes up).

Yikes!! 40 cents a kWh? That's insane!

Spartanman22
07/04/2010, 11:40 PM
Ya that's what I was thinking. .40 cents seems a lot. I think we are around .18 cents but im not exactly sure.

flying_dutchman
07/05/2010, 12:30 AM
RC has a good electrical cost calculator:
http://reefcentral.com/index.php/tank-electrical
And I have estimated my total on electrical is about 80 dollars a month
:eek1:

khaosinc
07/05/2010, 03:35 AM
I'm sitting with my bill here, and mine is a hair over 11 cents a kwh with all the fancy taxes added

t4zalews
07/05/2010, 01:15 PM
California has mad crazy energy costs....thank god I live in Michigan, or then again, its Michigan.

Originalrocket
07/05/2010, 01:55 PM
Woot go Illinois with its 11 (most in country) Nuclear Reactors!!!

Paying around $0.08 per KWh

agreeive?fish
07/05/2010, 02:49 PM
here in oklahoma ours is $00.1074084919472913616398243045388 (11 cents) per kwh including franchise fees and taxes

capecoral
08/08/2010, 09:57 PM
I read that if you feed your corals more, you can get the same growth with less light.

khaosinc
08/09/2010, 04:03 AM
California has mad crazy energy costs....thank god I live in Michigan, or then again, its Michigan.


no offence, but I grew up there, and I'd rather pull a live gopher out of my nose..

DustinB
08/09/2010, 09:24 AM
I calculated the entire monthly costs for my room including tank setup, lights, computer, tv, etc.... At the $0.12/kW I was paying I calculated roughly $60/mo. My tank was about $30. That's running 2 x 250w MH for 10 hours a day and 2 x 110w VHO for 12 plus a mag 9.5, koralia 4, 2 x koralia 2, RL 150 skimmer.

A tank really is no big deal on a month to month basis unless you live in some state with absolutely insane electricity prices.

sslak
08/09/2010, 10:32 AM
I have estimated my total on electrical is about 80 dollars a month

I highly doubt that unless you are in California, are you sure you have your KWh price right?

It costs me about $15.00 per month to run the 58g reef described in my sig.

Your Octopus 110 is a 13w pump, at least mine is, so it costs very little.

Lights and heater/chiller are always the biggest draw.

mm949
08/09/2010, 11:15 AM
the fish tank is probably the most energy effecient appliance in the house...
looks at the items that draw the most juice...hvac,kitchen appliances, computers and media equipment
switching light bulbs over to cfl(inside/outside), turning off the coffee pot after brewing and the computer/gaming equipment when not using, sweeping instead of the vacuum, and turning of lights when leaving a room are all little this that can add-up to big savings
the biggest draw of energy is the AC....setting temps alittle higher, closing blinds/shades during the day, and using the cheap furnance filters(monthly) instead of the pleated ones can save alot by cutting down the run time on the unit

if u really what to help out the folks, maybe u can take the responsibility and cost of making your house consume less energy...throwing them a few bucks also goes a long way

cody6766
08/09/2010, 11:22 AM
The TEK 6x 36" light costs $8/month to run at $.08/kWh. You can take those numbers and get a pretty good ballpark figure for your 4x24w

The 6 bulb is 216w
Your potential 4 bulb is 96w

Divide 96 by 216 and you get .4444, which gives you 3.5 when multiplied by 8.
So the 4 bulb you're looking at uses 44% of the energy my 6 bulb uses, thu costs only %44%. That gives you about $3.5/mo at my electrical cost.

Ocean runner makes pretty low wattage return pumps and I think they're also used on a few skimmers out there. Koralia makes good powerheads with low power needs, but you won't need much flow for a pony tank. I bet your tank costs a good bit less than $80/mo if you crunch the numbers again. My 40br and the extras with it runs me about $15 total.

Paco
08/09/2010, 11:56 AM
the biggest draw of energy is the AC....setting temps a little higher, closing blinds/shades during the day, and using the cheap furnace filters(monthly) instead of the pleated ones can save alot by cutting down the run time on the unit

Wait, what? Can you share a little more about this "cheap furnace filters" being cheaper than pleated? I use a pleated Merv-11 rated filter because (I believe) it will keep the coils cleaner, which will keep the unit running more efficiently long term. And I change the filter every 480 running hours before it's totally blocked up.

Not picking a fight -- just always interested in saving $$ long term!

jcolletteiii
08/09/2010, 12:42 PM
The eheim won't save much on electricity, even over say, a mag 9.5. The 1260 uses 80 watts, quite high energy usage compared with many more modern pumps. Some with lower wattages that you might want to look into are Ocean Runner, the new Sicce Syncra pumps, and the Waterblaster pumps. I just switched my skimmer pump from a mag 7 to a Waterblaster 3000 which only uses 38 watts and moves 780GPH.

mm949
08/09/2010, 01:02 PM
Wait, what? Can you share a little more about this "cheap furnace filters" being cheaper than pleated? I use a pleated Merv-11 rated filter because (I believe) it will keep the coils cleaner, which will keep the unit running more efficiently long term. And I change the filter every 480 running hours before it's totally blocked up.

Not picking a fight -- just always interested in saving $$ long term!

well we all know the hvac unit is about airflow....the pleated filters do trap more fine particles causing restriction of flow through the unit...this will make the unit run more or harder to control the temp

im not much for AC...but in the winter i saw reductions in run times from 12hrs to 4 hrs...thats huge!!

RVANANO
08/09/2010, 01:03 PM
I would guess your power bill is high lately b/c of the heat. You are in NY right?

The last two months were the most expensive power bills I have ever had.

Paco
08/09/2010, 01:30 PM
well we all know the hvac unit is about airflow....the pleated filters do trap more fine particles causing restriction of flow through the unit...this will make the unit run more or harder to control the temp

im not much for AC...but in the winter i saw reductions in run times from 12hrs to 4 hrs...thats huge!!

That's fine for a furnace but with an A/C you will eventually be clogging the coils (no coils in a furnace, if I'm not mistaken) which will put your run times thru the roof.

The advice I got from the A/C guy who installed my system and from other A/C guys is when you put in a new system, start running good pleated filters immediately and never stop. The system is clean -- keep it that way. If you have an existing system that's been using cheap furnace filters then keep using them because the system's already dirty and the pleated filters will cause too much pressure drop and lead to freeze-ups and other problems.

meco65
08/09/2010, 01:36 PM
Myself I would get a part time job and just pay the whole bill and keep both tanks. JMO.

LukeGI
08/11/2010, 12:04 PM
A little late in the topic, but for what its worth...this magazine did an article on energy use in a marine setup.
Here is the link.
http://coralmagazine.coverleaf.com/coral/20100304#pg49

Luke

jahorgos
09/01/2010, 05:36 PM
Replace all the bulbs in your house with CFLs and that alone might bring the cost back down so you don't have to break the tank down. Cost me $100-150 but it was worth that in electrical savings.

polyppetey
09/01/2010, 09:13 PM
Also look into running your lights during off peak times, would save a little there.

Big E
09/02/2010, 04:19 AM
I just switched my skimmer pump from a mag 7 to a Waterblaster 3000 which only uses 38 watts and moves 780GPH.

You do realize you just spent twice as much for a pump that saves you 47% in electricity.
It will take you a couple of years to make up that $85. That will get you to break even, then you'll save on electricity costs after that.

I'm not picking on you but just pointing out that other factors need to be considered.

TheH
09/02/2010, 02:22 PM
Danner Mag-7 Supreme Pump: 70 Watts, $80.00 from MarineDepot
WaterBlaster HY 3000 Pump: 37 Watts, $165 from AquaCave

Assuming continuous use and a price of 10 cents per kilowatt hour
The Mag-7 costs $5.00 per month to run.
The WaterBlaster costs $2.70 per month to run.
It will take 3.5 years to make up the difference.

Assuming continuous use and a price of 15 cents per kilowatt hour.
The Mag-7 costs $7.50 per month to run.
The WaterBlaster costs $4.05 per month to run.
It will take 2.3 years to make up the difference.

Still the Waterblaster has a silicone nitride shaft that (apparently) will not allow calcium to build up and also has an auto-off feature in the case of overheating.

Big E
09/02/2010, 02:49 PM
Thanks for the figures. The Waterblaster should have some added features at that price. Still it's unproven long term & doesn't have the track record of a Mag pump.

My killowatt per hour is under .07 cents for me & my Mag pump has run for years without a problem.

I'm not debating pumps, only pointing out that comparing pump cost vs electricity usage are valid considerations.

keto
09/02/2010, 03:07 PM
That's fine for a furnace but with an A/C you will eventually be clogging the coils (no coils in a furnace, if I'm not mistaken) which will put your run times thru the roof.

The advice I got from the A/C guy who installed my system and from other A/C guys is when you put in a new system, start running good pleated filters immediately and never stop. The system is clean -- keep it that way. If you have an existing system that's been using cheap furnace filters then keep using them because the system's already dirty and the pleated filters will cause too much pressure drop and lead to freeze-ups and other problems.

And he was right !! I am a hvac guy I work for trane .... you are both right in a way but i would never run the cheaper filter to gain anything you are filling your evap coil with crap and dropping you air flow as well, which effects your furnace as well in the winter it runs hotter then it should and then cycles on limits cousing parts to fail and relibilty issues ... USE GOOD FILTERS , a standard filter catches about 3 cfm of air, a pleated filter is around 300 your standard 100,000 btu furnace moves 1200 cfm of air , change you filters every month when in use and youl never have any issues..

Blown76mav
09/02/2010, 07:24 PM
Well you could have my bills. I got a letter from the power company, my closest 100 neighbors used 2457 Kwh combined (two months) they sent a letter to me wanting to know why my house used 5587 kwh (two months) you would think they would be sending me a thank you letter for keeping them in business. :D

sirreal63
09/02/2010, 09:28 PM
Thanks for the figures. The Waterblaster should have some added features at that price. Still it's unproven long term & doesn't have the track record of a Mag pump.

My killowatt per hour is under .07 cents for me & my Mag pump has run for years without a problem.

I'm not debating pumps, only pointing out that comparing pump cost vs electricity usage are valid considerations.


To add a little more fun to the equation, he cut the heat by almost half. Mags should be renamed Mag Heaters, with the added benefit of water movement. They are no doubt bulletproof pumps, but they are just so inefficient. An Ocean Runner 2500 consumes 38 watts for 650 ghp. I replaced a mag 2, mag 3 and a mag 7 on my tank and it stayed 3 degrees cooler on avg. Eheim and OR can make a huge difference. The chiller stopped coming on, I evapped less water and the A/C didn't work as hard. This was on a 125 with about 150 total gallons. That 3 degree drop in the room made a difference.

My 58 cost 17 bucks a month to run, that's with a 250 watt halide, skimmer, calcium reactor, ozone generator, controllers for ph and ORP, H.O.T Magnum for carbon, BP reactor, 5500 gph of powerheads. I still use a Mag 7, it will heat 20 gallons of water to 78 degrees overnight, which is perfect for mixing salt. 10 gallons in about 4 hours. Great pumps, but horribly inefficient and the total cost of ownership can be so much more than the price of the pump...yes the Eheims and Ocean Runners were not cheap, but there is a savings that is not easy to see until you look at the bigger picture.

Big E
09/03/2010, 01:38 AM
Again, I'm not defending or debating pumps.............you make some good points for your system. You should also look into why you can't get good heat exchange. No doubt it's a good thing that these new pumps are coming out that are cooler & more efficient & they'll sort themselves out on durability & quality over time. It's all good, as I'm sure the prices will come down with more competition.

I ran the Mag 7 on a 70g total system & the heater still had to kick on at times. There were never any heat issues.

I remember about 7-8 years ago when all the electronic ballasts for lights came onto the scene. Everyone was touting their electrical savings. The problem at the time was the ballasts were so expensive that it would take 5 years to just break even with the price of tar ballasts. There was also the fact it was easy for anyone to fix a tar ballast at a small cost & the electronic ballasts were throw aways if they stopped working............the electrical savings didn't mean much looking long term. That has since changed as the prices are more in line & became more comparable.

sirreal63
09/03/2010, 07:32 AM
The point is to choose your equipment wisely. Every watt of power you add to your tank, especially with water movers that are submerged, adds heat to the tank which is them imparted to the room the tank is in and your a/c will need to work a little harder to deal with it. A mag 7 is a 70 watt heater that never shuts off, add a few more of those and the heat adds up. If you live in a hot climate, it can make a difference, if you pay through the nose for electricity, it can make a difference.

It isn't a knock on the product or a debate about what is better, but a discussion on how to save a little electricity. :-)

capecoral
09/12/2010, 02:04 PM
Too bad there is not a piece of reef equipment that also cools your house :o

zma21
09/12/2010, 03:33 PM
I can see a challenge coming up in a SPS/ sea horse tank, Considering SPS need lot's-o-flow and the seahorses will bang against the glass walls with that much flow.