Lionfish Not Eating

[tmar77]

I have had my lionfish roughly 8 months and he has been doing great! He eats like a horse and has gotten fairly big since i purchased him. One day I was feeding him, and i watched him attempt to eat a piece of krill but failed. So i watched more and he starts to yawn and thrash his body. So I am assuming he has food caught. Ever since he has not eaten. It has been 9 days since he has eaten. I have tried feeding him krill, silverside, and clam but nothing. Has anyone heard of this before? Any info would be helpful.

[LisaD]

there has been some information that a diet consisting primarily of krill can cause a condition called lockjaw in lionfish. try googling lionfish and lockjaw. have you been feeding primarily krill?

you might try offering some live food, like gutloaded ghost shrimp.

can you provide more detailed information? like:

-species of lionfish, and length
-tank it is in, and set-up
-tankmates
-water parameters: pH, temperature, specific gravity, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate
-any recent changes? new fish, equipment malfunction, bullying, etc.?
-recent disease or parasites?

I know it's a lot of detail to ask for, but listing this information can help a lot in troubleshooting.

[tmar77]

Wow! i had no idea that krill could cause this. That is pretty much all i have been feeding him. I guess thats why you should do your research when you bring home new fish.

-4" Volitan lionfish
-55g FOWLR with canister filter, uv sterilizer, 2 power heads, and some live rock
-Tankmate: blue dot puffer, picaso trigger, bicolor angel
-ph 8.3, temp 80, spec .025, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0

No recent change in anything. He had ich roughly 5 months ago, but I quarantined all my fish in hyposalinity for 6 weeks and no signs since.

If he does have lockjaw what should i do for him? I watched a video on you tube where someone force fed. Is this what I am going to have to do? I also read that iodine helps. Should I maybe quarantine him, so he doesnt get more stressed?

[namxas]

has the lion's mouth gone back into "normal" position? if so, the fish may resume eating in a bit, however, once a fish has had lockjaw, the condition can recur much more easily.

if the fish's jaw is still tweaked, you may need to pop it back into place, which will require sedating the fish (this is also true if you have to tube feed it).

is your picasso bugging the lion?

i'd QT the lion, and see if it snaps out of it. you may need to offer it ghost shrimp, mollies or guppies (NOT goldfish or rosy reds!) to initiate a feeding response. IME, most lions can't resist pieces of raw table shrimp, salmon, or snapper. we get food for all of our lions, scorps, waspfish, and stingfish from the local fish market or the seafood counter in the grocery store. the key is to feed the fish a varied diet.

if the fish's jaw seems OK, but it goes a bit without feeding, you could try a series of FW dips to get the fish to defecate, after which feeding often resumes.

IMHO, 80* is too hot for a FOWLR...we run 76* +/- 1* for most of our setups.

Lisa (LisaD) and Frank (FMarini) would be good "go-to" people for additional detail on treatment.

HTH

[tmar77]

Its seems that his jaw is in place but on the other hand I dont know how to tell if it wasnt.

The trigger and the lion get along extremely well and so do the other fish.

I read about iodine treatment. Is this something I should try?

How do you sedate a lion?

[namxas]

if the lion's jaw is locked open, it will look as if the lion is 'yawning' all of the time. i've never heard of a lion's jaw being locked in the closed position.

i've never heard of the iodine treatment for lockjaw...can you point me in that direction? you have to be careful with iodine, as it can be poisonous at elevated levels.

you sedate a lionfish using Finquel (MS-222), but i wouldn't be considering that yet. lions can go quite awhile without feeding, so you have some time in that respect.

again, if the fish isn't eating (anorexia) a series of FW dips using temperature/pH adjusted water for no more than 10 mins (4-6mins for juvies) is typically one treatment option. repeat this dip after 36 hrs, and if the fish defecates immediately, you can remove it from the dip.

but FIRST, try offering the fish live food, as this will often do the trick.

[LisaD]

I've never had to treat a lionfish for this condition, so I don't have any firsthand information to offer. I'm not sure how much *scientific* information there is on the krill-lockjaw syndrome, but there seems to be plenty of anecdotal evidence for it.

I like to offer my fish different types of Ocean Nutrition gel cubes on a regular basis for some variety, in addition to the food they get from my grocer's seafood counter. :)

I do agree with Greg (namxas):

lower temperature if you can below 80, even 78 would be good - try turning off/down lights, fans blowing across top, crank up the AC...

QT and dips - won't hurt and might help

offer some nutritional live food to try to initiate feeding response

it is possible that even though you aren't seeing any overt aggression, the lion may be stressed by having to share limited space with the picasso - it will quickly outgrow the 55. sometimes a sign that a fish has outgrown a tank is stress reaction - maybe anorexia, a new outbreak of ich, aggression, etc.

[tmar77]

Thanks for all your help everyone. I saw him yawn a little while ago. So maybe not lockjaw? Or is it still a possibility?

So I am going to quarantine him tonight and tomorrow I will try live feed and a freshwater dip. I will keep you guys posted.

[FMarini]

no offense-but its unlikely you have an 4" long- 8month old P volitan unless its got issues. An 8 month old P volitan should be close to 8-10"
I'm going to assume this fish is quite young, its sure reads like your experiencing anorexia probably brought on by nutritional problems, its really quite hard to pinpoint what the problem is- however- you need to try and fix it.
So start w/ perfect water conditions (water changes), as mention introduce live feeders to entice the lion. Next-i would try the freshwater dip, and finally tube feeding if the fish doesn't improve after 2 weeks.
the iodine is used for goiters- if the fish is not interested in food- its anorexia, if the fish is interested in food, but cant swallow it might be a goiter

[FMarini]

Ok--- cool
Please keep us informed how it turns out

[MrTuskfish]

You've now heard about the krill. Also, any fish needs a lot of variety in their diet. IME, lots of variety and vitamins are the keys to lionfish health. Also, I'd never keep one with an aggressive trigger. They can play nice for a while; but, sooner or later, the lions fins will become shredded by the trigger. Once a trigger or puffer starts on a lion; he is defenseless and will stress to the point of no return---if the trigger doesn't kill him first. Also, I agree; I doubt this is a Volitan, they grow incredibly fast and a 55 is way too small for a Volitan. The small tank makes friction between the lion & trigger even more probable. cramped space=stress=aggression. Picasso triggers, despite temporary success stories, are aggressive fish. I hate to keep the negatives coming, given what you're going through, but a 55 is awfully small for the trigger also. You have a fairly small SW tank; trying to keep big tank fish is going to lead to a string of disappointments. A dwarf lion can do well in a 55.

[LisaD]

Do you have a picture of your fish?

[namxas]

actually, my story from "way back before anyone knew" with a picasso and a volitans ended badly for the picasso after a few years. there was a rush for the same piece of food and the trigger got poked, became completely paralyzed within 5 mins and died a bout a month later. it was never "quite right" after being zapped.

[Mental1]

Were you planning on upgrading to a bigger tank as the fish grow? It seems like a lot of fish longterm for a 55g. Have you got the fish in QT? Did you get some live food?

[tmar77]

I have a 5" volitan lion mrtuskfish, I am positive. Yes I have plans for a bigger tank in the near future. What is the minimum tank size volitan should be in?

So I just put my lion in to QT and i noticed a red spot by his gills. Does he have an infection? What should I use to treat it?

I have some ghost shrimp that I am going to try feeding him, later on.

[tmar77]

It looks like blood under the skin. Just on the pectoral fin, more towards the body, about the size of a your pinky nail. what is this?

[Mental1]

Can you post a picture?

[MrTuskfish]

I have a 5" volitan lion mrtuskfish, I am positive. Yes I have plans for a bigger tank in the near future. What is the minimum tank size volitan should be in?

So I just put my lion in to QT and i noticed a red spot by his gills. Does he have an infection? What should I use to treat it?

I have some ghost shrimp that I am going to try feeding him, later on.

A Volitan is one of the fastest growing fish I know of (one of the hardiest,too). It can easily reach 12" in captivity, which is the width of a 55 gal tank. When they spread their fins, they're about the size of a basketball (someone else's definition, and a good one. ) They are not real active fish, but still need more room. If you're planning to upgrade, great...the bigger the better.

[MrTuskfish]

actually, my story from "way back before anyone knew" with a picasso and a volitans ended badly for the picasso after a few years. there was a rush for the same piece of food and the trigger got poked, became completely paralyzed within 5 mins and died a bout a month later. it was never "quite right" after being zapped.

I've never been "quite right" after being zapped by a big lion either. But, I guess I was never quite right before that, either. If I was, I would have kept an eye on the fish.

[tmar77]

Can someone please tell me what the red spot is?

[MrTuskfish]

Can someone please tell me what the red spot is?

I'd suggest you post this in the fish disease section, some real fish health pros hang oput there. A pic would really help.

[namxas]

no matter where you post, a pic will REALLY help. otherwise, everything folks can tell you are pretty much guesses.

the red spot could be from one of the lion's tankmates, it could be a bacterial infection, since the fish was acting "itchy" (thrashing), it could be parasitic...you get the idea.