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bioload
07/06/2010, 04:05 PM
How fast will Nitrate reduction take to occur...........Well Let's find out....sort of.

Tank 7"x7"x17"
Airline with valve
Terta Tec Deep Pump
Water volume = 3 gallons
Algae = Caulerpa and Chaeto

Setup
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2649.jpg

Day 1 - Noticeable change in Nitrate
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2651.jpg

bioload
07/06/2010, 06:58 PM
While were at it....added phosphate as well

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2652.jpg

Allmost
07/07/2010, 11:14 AM
what is the lighting ?

kyle1284
07/07/2010, 11:18 AM
interesting...

shrimphead
07/07/2010, 11:39 AM
what lighting is used will be important factor

bioload
07/07/2010, 03:27 PM
Day 2

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_26522.jpg
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2653.jpg

bioload
07/07/2010, 03:44 PM
There is actually no supplemental lighting at the moment. The only light is coming in from an adjacent window beside the tank, which is basically indirect sunlight.

fihsboy
07/07/2010, 05:22 PM
I would think you would want to run something thats consistent.....just because what happens if you have a cloudy day....then your results are off.

TheFishMan65
07/07/2010, 06:13 PM
At this right he can try again in a day or 2. Looks like most of the nitrates will be used up. He can then increase the light and see if that cause a faster drop.

bioload
07/07/2010, 09:01 PM
Don't have any lighting at the moment. Should get a chance to pick up a compact fluorescent soon. Didn't think that the algae would work as quickly as it has, considering I've waited for a month with my DSB with no luck.

I like the idea of doing a comparison with lighting to see if it has any impact. Once/If the Algae scrubber reaches 0 I'll try again using additional lighting. Nothing too powerful, maybe just a compact fluorescent.

Cerebral Fish
07/07/2010, 09:03 PM
What direction does the window face? Could you put the algae in the window?

csmfish
07/07/2010, 09:21 PM
Where is the tank shot? Anything in it?

bioload
07/08/2010, 10:18 AM
What direction does the window face? Could you put the algae in the window?

The window is facing south. I'm working on a plan that would eventually include direct sunligt if the results continue to be positive...cheaper than a metal halide :)

Allmost
07/08/2010, 10:24 AM
your best bet for lighting is Home depot :) for 30 bucks u can pick up a nice fixture, and for 10 bucks a nice 5600 K bulb form BA even :)

also, having the lights on 24/7 will give u twice as much no3 removal right ? :)
also will stabilize your PH more.

lastly, be sure to remove algea as it grows, as the lower layers can eventually die off, release po4 adn no3, and make the top layers grow, and not remove anything from the actual tank :)

bioload
07/08/2010, 10:25 AM
Where is the tank shot? Anything in it?

Below are some details, the tank was started back in April

Volume - 75gal
Rock - 20lbs live 30lbs dry
Substrate - None
Livestock - 2 Clowns, a Tang and a pair of Coral Banded Shrimp
Filtration - Marineland Emperor 400 BioWheel Filter
Water changes - None to date

The Algae scrubber is connected to the tank at the moment, however, there is currently no turnover between the tank and the scrubber. I simply added some of the water from DT to see how fast it could reduce nitrates in a closed system (approx 3 gal).

bioload
07/08/2010, 10:30 AM
your best bet for lighting is Home depot :) for 30 bucks u can pick up a nice fixture, and for 10 bucks a nice 5600 K bulb form BA even :)

also, having the lights on 24/7 will give u twice as much no3 removal right ? :)
also will stabilize your PH more.

:beer: I'll have a look this afternoon.

The 24/7 idea would be another intersting thing to try. I have some more scrap acrylic that I might use to set up a second tanks for camparison purposes.

bioload
07/08/2010, 02:58 PM
Day 3

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2656.jpg
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2658.jpg

sslak
07/08/2010, 03:17 PM
Impressive young Jedi! Near undetectable in only 3 days!

Granted that's a large volume of Chaeto compared to the volume of water, but this proves that it is an excellent nitrate reduction method. I would assume the greater the ratio of macroalgae to water, the faster the nitrates are taken up (it only makes sense).

It certainly proves that macro-algae alone is an extremely efficient nitrate reduction method!

I saw the same results when I added chaeto to my first system, it really works! That's why many of the successful reefers use a sump with refugium growing macro.

bioload
07/08/2010, 07:01 PM
Amazing that something so simple works so well, no messing with flow, anaerobic zones, advection, biodiversity etc. Not to say that I won't be trying other methods, but I may finally be able to start adding some corals to my tank soon.

I've turned on the maxijet connected to the tank to exchange water and start over. This time I've added a 13w compact fluorescent that I will run 24/7....lets see how it goes.

Current Setup
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2659.jpg

bioload
07/09/2010, 04:00 PM
Here are the Day 1 results with 24 hour lighting.

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2662.jpg
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2663.jpg

bioload
07/09/2010, 09:12 PM
I think I night have mixed up my samples earlier today, and the previous nitrate test does not seem to be accurate.

Here is what I just tested
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2664.jpg

bioload
07/11/2010, 11:35 AM
Not entirely sure what has happened? The day 2 test using 24/7 compact fluorescent lighting showed an increase in the level of nitrate.

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2736.jpg

I may have botched the last series of test and the results somewhere are not correct, or there is some nitrate being released back into the system with 24hr lighting. I guess that is why many test are required before coming to a conclusion, which is why I'll not make any regarding 24hr lighting at the moment....more to come.

Regardless, I think I can say that Algal tests were positive overall and I will continue to use on my 75gallon. I've started continuous flow between the scrubber and DT using the MJ400 and will monitor growth and system nitrate in coming weeks.

Keep in mind that the tank has no other means of export at the moment in the form of a skimmer or water changes and there are no plans currently to start.

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2739.jpg

bioload
07/12/2010, 06:44 PM
Day 2 - Didn't expect to much change

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2743.jpg

bioload
07/16/2010, 10:24 AM
Did a couple test with the API test kit and it would appear that the result may vary greatly depending on solution #2, which need to be shaken for 30 seconds before use.

The vial on the right was not, and the result indicates 0.

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2744.jpg

ruprecht
07/16/2010, 11:55 AM
also, having the lights on 24/7 will give u twice as much no3 removal right ? :)
also will stabilize your PH more. Caulerpa and Cheatomorpha are somewhat different in that Caulerpa needs a 24 hour photoperiod to control spore release and Chaeto can run on a reverse photoperiod to help balance pH. It comes down to the algae you want to use or the money you want to spend illuminating it. Having the Caulerpa on a diurnal photoperiod could lead to spore release but with the amount you are growing it shouldn't cause problems.

torero500
07/17/2010, 12:27 AM
I'm confused...did the macroalgae reduce your nitrates like it looked like in the beginning of this post or was that reduction simply the result of a testing error in not shaking the reagent bottle?

hobbyfish
07/17/2010, 08:36 AM
I have a 12gal nano with chaeto in the fuge. My kids turned the light off on the fuge and it was left off for about a week. The nitrates shot up to 20 ppm before I realized it. I turned the fuge light back on and within 2 days the nitrates went back down to 0. Just FYI. Nice thread though.

bioload
07/17/2010, 11:22 AM
I'm confused...did the macroalgae reduce your nitrates like it looked like in the beginning of this post or was that reduction simply the result of a testing error in not shaking the reagent bottle?

The tests performed at the beginning of the thread did show a reduction of nitrates in the closed system, which was expected. Several were performed with consistent results.

The 24/7 lighting closed system tests are inconclusive IMO. There was a drop in nitrate which was observed, however, a rise in nitrates shortly after. A possible explanation for this inconsistency may be due to the solution not shaken properly prior to use. I will repeat the test in the future.

I may switch to the Salifert nitrate test kit which does not rely on the test solution being shaken, eliminating some variability.

Currently the DT is being circulated through the algae similar to a typical fuge setup. I'm expecting any reduction (if at all) would take longer with the additional water volume and the fact that food is being added to the DT.

bioload
07/17/2010, 11:24 AM
I have a 12gal nano with chaeto in the fuge. My kids turned the light off on the fuge and it was left off for about a week. The nitrates shot up to 20 ppm before I realized it. I turned the fuge light back on and within 2 days the nitrates went back down to 0. Just FYI. Nice thread though.

Hi hobbyfish, do you recall approx how much algae you had at the time?

bioload
07/17/2010, 05:49 PM
Little did I know that when I added my air diffuser I would turn my algae into a rotisserie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUrbaAiBFoo

Fishamatank
07/18/2010, 10:48 AM
I agree with the above. One or the other type of macro will probably work best. Chaeto needs a dark period for optimal growth, and caulerpa needs 24 hour lighting or it may invade your tank.
I have never had good luck with API NO3 test kits, they are not very sensitive. I would look into Elos or Salifert.