View Full Version : live rock in natural sunlight - question
cmoreland
07/07/2010, 08:36 AM
I have some live rock I'm holding for a friend, I don't have room in my display tank or fuge so I've got it all in a rubbermaid with a powerhead. The rock has coraline and a few random softies.
I'd like to keep as much alive as possible, while doing water changes. Is it advisable to put the rubbermaid out in the natural sunlight for a few hours to keep the photosynthesis happening? Obviously the sun sustains this life in the wild, but I'm in North Texas, a ways away from the reefs' natural climate.
thegrun
07/07/2010, 08:46 AM
It would help provided you do not overheat the water. You would need to leave it out all day, so my guess is the water will get too hot, but if you run a chiller, all is good.
cmoreland
07/07/2010, 09:09 AM
yeah, heat would be an issue, darn. A chiller I do not have...anyone know of anything else I could do?
Lemeshianos
07/07/2010, 09:22 AM
My temperature reads 93F. Of course I don't have any fish or corals.
Only live rock with some feather dusters, couple of aptaisia and some weird looking things that looks like trasparent tunicates.
And some collonista snails.
I can't say they are happy, but I didn't receive anything in the complain box. In other words nothing has died yet, but it's only been a week. I hope I m lucky but I can't guarantee that your friends rock and hitch hikers will survive high temps.
thegrun
07/07/2010, 09:24 AM
How long do you need to store it? A couple of cheap compact fluorescent 5,000 K bulbs would let you get by for a week or two. Longer than that will likely affect the corals without proper lighting.
cmoreland
07/07/2010, 09:32 AM
Just till the end of the week hopefully! It's been very nice weather lately so I may just take my chances out there for a few days. (it's normally in the 100's here during the summer). I'll monitor the heat and occasionally use ice cubes as top off I suppose? Any way you look at it I'll get some die off I'm afriad :\
footballdude2k3
07/07/2010, 10:30 AM
setup some fans that blow on the surface of the water, will cause more evaporation but will keep the temp more stable
cmoreland
07/07/2010, 10:36 AM
excellent idea! You Gents rock!
shrimphead
07/07/2010, 12:14 PM
unless the container is really really deep i think you'll get algae growth all over it because it'll be getting the wrong spectrum of light.
cmoreland
07/07/2010, 12:27 PM
You guys are going to laugh but we have a chance of rain here so I've got the rubbermaid underneath our glass patio table with a good fan blowing across the top of the water. Ah the things we reefers will do for a bit of rock and polyps. Anyway, yes shrimphead the container is a dark plastic rubbermaid that's almost 2' deep. I'm not saying this will retard the algae growth but hopefully for the short period of time I need the light it won't get too crazy :)
You did bring up a good point, just because it's the sunlight, being in a shallow bucket compared to the ocean reef depth, you definitely wouldn't want natural sunlight beating down into a reef tank. :p
footballdude2k3
07/07/2010, 12:33 PM
i disagree with sunlight and algae comments, my tank gets sunlight in it all the time, no bad algae goes into it, algae is due to excess nutrients. coral in the wild thrives with natural sunlight.
cmoreland
07/07/2010, 12:51 PM
i disagree with sunlight and algae comments, my tank gets sunlight in it all the time, no bad algae goes into it, algae is due to excess nutrients. coral in the wild thrives with natural sunlight.
Right it does, but the spectrum changes slightly at the depth of a natural reef doesn't it?
/I'm at the mercy of the internet because I sure don't know that much about sunlight spectrums
//where the heck is Waterkeeper when you need him? :)
shrimphead
07/07/2010, 01:33 PM
i disagree with sunlight and algae comments, my tank gets sunlight in it all the time, no bad algae goes into it, algae is due to excess nutrients. coral in the wild thrives with natural sunlight.
the glass on your tank acts as a filter to the light just as the ocean does on reefs
Gary Majchrzak
07/07/2010, 01:40 PM
what the heck kind of nonsense is happening here in this thread?
plenty of coral greenhouses use sunlight to grow corals. I try and get as much natural sunlight that I can into my reef aquarium.
the OP should place some fluorescent striplights above the rock being held and call it a day. Better yet- get his friend to provide some lights for the stuff being held for him.
shrimphead
07/07/2010, 01:54 PM
what the heck kind of nonsense is happening here in this thread?
plenty of coral greenhouses use sunlight to grow corals. I try and get as much natural sunlight that I can into my reef aquarium.
the OP should place some fluorescent striplights above the rock being held and call it a day. Better yet- get his friend to provide some lights for the stuff being held for him.
and those greenhouses have a filter on them where it be glass or some type of plastic, uv light is extremely damaging to most corals that don't live at that upper level, seeing as coraline is actually a deeper water sps (i think its sps?)
it will die under uv.
Gary Majchrzak
07/07/2010, 02:42 PM
there are different species of corallines.
Some species thrive in lower light levels and some species require intense light levels (ie: UV exposure).
If the OP chooses to place the rock holding vat outside in sunlight he'd better watch the temperature of the water.
Floowid
07/07/2010, 02:46 PM
what the heck kind of nonsense is happening here in this thread?
I may have finally found a sig worth having... if Mr. Majchrzak doesn't object.
Gary Majchrzak
07/07/2010, 02:48 PM
:beer:
cmoreland
07/07/2010, 03:20 PM
Seconded on the sig, that's hilarious. Please, the name is Clay, no need to call me OP :) Anyway, yes I do worry about the water temps but I'm topping off quite often due to the fan that's blowing across the water (well I have my wife topping off because I'm at work). I don't have any nor do I want to purchase florescent striplights just for a few days but I certainly would have done that if I had them on-hand though I think they wouldn't last long under some Home Depot type florescents.
Not so much worried about the coralline, there are a few encrusted monti caps on that rock as well as some mushrooms and polyps I'd like to keep alive. I'll do a water change tonight and check the temps and report back here for those interested in how it went. :)
cmoreland
07/07/2010, 03:23 PM
By the by, I do think it's worth looking into the natural sunlight for reefs, shrimphead, where are you getting your data?
If beneficial, one could set up a tank in a sunroom or next to a nice window and during certain times of the day save mega $$ on electricity by not having to run your halides...
anbosu
07/07/2010, 03:27 PM
By the by, I do think it's worth looking into the natural sunlight for reefs, shrimphead, where are you getting your data?
If beneficial, one could set up a tank in a sunroom or next to a nice window and during certain times of the day save mega $$ on electricity by not having to run your halides...
Several people on here use solartubes to bring in sunlight.
DeathWish302
07/07/2010, 03:30 PM
what the heck kind of nonsense is happening here in this thread?
plenty of coral greenhouses use sunlight to grow corals. I try and get as much natural sunlight that I can into my reef aquarium.
the OP should place some fluorescent striplights above the rock being held and call it a day. Better yet- get his friend to provide some lights for the stuff being held for him.
Had several hours of natural light everyday in my tanks with no problem. Have had zoas and shrooms explode under 5000K 'Warm' CFL Flood lights in the sump. Moral of the story is the average aquarist PREFERS to look at Windex... Corals may color differently at different K values, but I've never seen one not explode with growth under a 6500K bulb. So the OP you should be fine for a week of indirect sunlight or by maintaining the water temp in direct light. As for water temp....that's a whole other story. Mine is at 84F right now and I'm sure your going to tell me my corals will bleach. Haven't in the multiple years they've been at that temp.
+1 to Gary
Gary Majchrzak
07/07/2010, 03:31 PM
If beneficial, one could set up a tank in a sunroom or next to a nice window and during certain times of the day save mega $$ on electricity by not having to run your halides...
I see the use of sunlight as a future trend in reefkeeping.
Somewhat related to your situation, Clay:
I have some rock and Montipora (that's buried in a jumble of rock) that's been doing just fine for over a month now. It's all being held in an area of relatively massive water flow and the only illumination is one of those spiral compact flourecent bulbs that they sell in Home Depot. 6500k color. I think it's 15 watts and I know it's inexpensive. Dangled above your rock holding vat one would work just dandy.
cmoreland
07/07/2010, 03:43 PM
Very interesting, what I'm gathering is what I've been secretly hoping the past year or so I've been in the hobby; that expensive lighting is overrated. So corals thrive and grow under 6500k T12's...but with the exception of very good water quality and stable parameters am I right?
Solartubes? This sounds like fun!!
EDIT: Well I'm sure we won't get insane colors under a few striplights due to the zoo algae not having to react as strongly as they would under extremely bright lighting such as halides...
cmoreland
07/07/2010, 03:59 PM
found a pic of a solartube setup... http://apexpropertieskc.com/fishpics/tank.jpg
DeathWish302
07/07/2010, 05:22 PM
Very interesting, what I'm gathering is what I've been secretly hoping the past year or so I've been in the hobby; that expensive lighting is overrated. So corals thrive and grow under 6500k T12's...but with the exception of very good water quality and stable parameters am I right?
Uhhh.... They do grow and can potentially 'thrive' if not too deep. I'm talking 6x T12 shoplights over NO MORE than maybe an 18" width tank that is no deeper than 8". It is definitely not an optimal PAR setup, but you can use it for a VERY cheap growout system. As for 'expensive' lighting, you cannot beat a $130 Lumatek switchable ballast (250W/400W), ~$67 Radium 400W bulb & a $120 Lumenarc 3. Yes, I'm biased! I have zoas and shrooms growing in the sump, but there are NO sps in their. The problem is PAR the deeper you go with standard T12's and low-watt CFL.
You truly have to weigh changing out 4-8+ T12s' every 6 months b/c they are dimming versus replacing that same MH once every 9-12 months (YES, 9-12 months with an electronic ballast and the proper voltage and current supplied coupled with a quality German bulb). So $67 for the Radium from hellolights.com with free shipping may not be a better deal if you have to replace those same T12 bulbs every 4 months and you have say a total of 18 bulbs @ $6/pc. That results in $108 for those same fluorescent tubes versus $67 for a MH. I basically would not suggest you push the limits until you understand how the organisms you prefer to keep will react under 'standard' aquarium lighting.
With that said, in the near future (~>1month) I will have a couple lagoonal style tanks connected to my reef to act as a type of slow flow refugium and a clownfish breeding habitat. I plan on using standard 6500K 23W flood lights from Lowe's or HD as the only lighting. If I use 3 per tank, that will result in a total of 18-24 bulbs used per year at ~$7 per bulb.
Just some food for thought....
Solartubes? This sounds like fun!!
Sounds like limited flexibility to find what your eye prefers.
EDIT: Well I'm sure we won't get insane colors under a few striplights due to the zoo algae not having to react as strongly as they would under extremely bright lighting such as halides...
Bingo! But do you prefer growth or color? For a simple growout system T12 tubes and CFL's rock as ong as you don't require a multitude of bulbs.
Hope my rambling helps. Just too many years trying to cheat the system has shown me that you cannot always cut corners on cost.
Cerebral Fish
07/07/2010, 06:17 PM
Sounds like limited flexibility to find what your eye prefers.
Why? The sun provides a full spectrum and you can modify what reaches your tank with colored shade cloth and tinted filters.
cmoreland
07/08/2010, 08:08 AM
Well the temps stayed around 85F with the fan blowing across the water yesterday and the corals were all open on the rock, no algae bloom...but that was only one day.
@ Deathwish, I understand that you can't really cut corners when it comes to the coloring of the coral. Perhaps you can tell me though, I have SPS that are all brown in my nano tank probably no more than 4" under the PC lights which consist of 24w 50/50 10k/actinic blue bulbs. Almost zero growth and they are all browned out :\ There should be plenty of light up there...anyway, I digress.
DeathWish302
07/08/2010, 09:59 AM
Why? The sun provides a full spectrum and you can modify what reaches your tank with colored shade cloth and tinted filters.
I'm not so certain about Solartube filters on the market, but I know my DSLR filters are pricey (i.e. up to the same price as one MH bulb). I'm not saying you cannot try various wavelengths, but to the average aquarist the cost is to great. I have an LED setup on my Onyx tank that can do exactly what your trying with little more effort than turning a couple pots. I'll read up on Solartubes more though...:thumbsup:
@ Deathwish, I understand that you can't really cut corners when it comes to the coloring of the coral. Perhaps you can tell me though, I have SPS that are all brown in my nano tank probably no more than 4" under the PC lights which consist of 24w 50/50 10k/actinic blue bulbs. Almost zero growth and they are all browned out :\ There should be plenty of light up there...anyway, I digress.
I'm going to have to say that nano-style PC lights are the area that I try to avoid at all costs. I bought a used Aquapod and gutted the PC lights for a LED setup just for a couple clowns and some rics. I've not had a very good experience with the standard aquarium-grade PC light AT ALL! If you plan to keep the tank long-term, for the replacement cost of those PC bulbs I would consider a different setup. After only 2.5yrs, my LED setup will pay for itself just from PC bulb replacement costs (this excludes my labor). Others may have different experiences with PC bulbs though....
Cerebral Fish
07/08/2010, 11:01 AM
I'm not so certain about Solartube filters on the market, but I know my DSLR filters are pricey (i.e. up to the same price as one MH bulb). I'm not saying you cannot try various wavelengths, but to the average aquarist the cost is to great. I have an LED setup on my Onyx tank that can do exactly what your trying with little more effort than turning a couple pots. I'll read up on Solartubes more though...:thumbsup:
I don't know if there are any solartube filters out there, but it shouldn't be hard to make one from the appropriate colored plastic sheet (polycarbonate?). Maybe stage lighting gels could be used, though not all of those are designed for long term use. If you are trying to tint the color in a greenhouse or sunroom tinted shadecloth such as chromatinet can be used.
It shouldn't be anywhere near as expensive as camera filters if you DIY it. But even if it is expensive it's a one time expense - it can light your tank for free until the sun explodes. What's the ROI on that compared to LED or MH?
The big advantage of electronic lighting, IMO, is the control we have with it. With LEDs we could make programs to simulate seasons, moon cycles, weather (lightning), etc which could be a real boon to the fish breeders with fish that only respond to certain cues. You get seasons, weather, etc with solartubes as well, but you don't have control over it.
DeathWish302
07/08/2010, 12:33 PM
One other thing to remember about Solartubes is the region you live in. I know for certain after living in the Midwest my entire life (minus 4 yrs in PA recently), that in the middle of winter the sun can be almost nil for weeks at a time. Snow and ice accumulation would also be aconcern on the exterior end. Another point of concern, is it could only then be considered a primary lighting method when the conditions were favorable. Not saying there isn't potential savings, but all aspects must be weighed. ALL methods of lighting a tank has pros & cons.
Just so you know I'm not playing devils advocate to Solartubes. I'm really intrigued enough to research these. I think the more you experiment with lighting, the more you learn what best suits your requirements.
sslak
07/08/2010, 02:08 PM
One other thing to remember about Solartubes is the region you live in. I know for certain after living in the Midwest my entire life (minus 4 yrs in PA recently), that in the middle of winter the sun can be almost nil for weeks at a time. Snow and ice accumulation would also be aconcern on the exterior end. Another point of concern, is it could only then be considered a primary lighting method when the conditions were favorable. Not saying there isn't potential savings, but all aspects must be weighed. ALL methods of lighting a tank has pros & cons.
Just so you know I'm not playing devils advocate to Solartubes. I'm really intrigued enough to research these. I think the more you experiment with lighting, the more you learn what best suits your requirements.
Absolutely region specific. If I lived in San Diego, Nevada, Arizona...someplace sunny and dry, they would likely be an awesome investment for long term reefers....not so much in Wisconsin.
Our winters are too dark, too cloudy, and too snow bound. I'm not climbing on a snow covered roof so my corals can have light...:spin2:
Even our summers are full of cloudy thunderstorm days.
Cerebral Fish
07/08/2010, 06:04 PM
One other thing to remember about Solartubes is the region you live in. I know for certain after living in the Midwest my entire life (minus 4 yrs in PA recently), that in the middle of winter the sun can be almost nil for weeks at a time. Snow and ice accumulation would also be aconcern on the exterior end. Another point of concern, is it could only then be considered a primary lighting method when the conditions were favorable. Not saying there isn't potential savings, but all aspects must be weighed. ALL methods of lighting a tank has pros & cons.
Just so you know I'm not playing devils advocate to Solartubes. I'm really intrigued enough to research these. I think the more you experiment with lighting, the more you learn what best suits your requirements.
Yes, I agree that there will be some regions that solartubes would be unsuitable for. But I'd also suggest that you shouldn't necessarily dismiss solar in any specific area without experimentation. What is the par outside on an overcast winter day in your area? Perhaps solartubes wouldn't transmit enough light on snowy days, but perhaps there would be enough ambient light in a sunroom, greenhouse, or large bay windows. And even if you had to supplement light for a few months, you could still get away with less total watts of supplemental light. I was reading one of the greenhouse aquaculture threads and, iirc, they were happy when it got overcast because they could use less shade cloth and their corals colored up. It also depends on which types of corals you are trying to keep, some might not mind lower light for a while.
I live in the desert southwest so I have a too much light problem, and the heat that it brings. Keeping a greenhouse cool might be difficult...
DeathWish302
07/08/2010, 07:28 PM
I think I'm in the 'Your Screwed unless you use a combination of SolarTubes/skylights, large windows, or electric lighting Club'. I have recently moved and love the South facing picture window and the huge sliding glass door that brings in a lot of natural light. A greenhouse would be a possibility, but the pain of relocating everything near October and dragging it back out in May/June would defeat the purpose. That's not to mention the inability to regulate temp with only evaporation, as this humidity limits that in summer. Yes, a sunroom would be nice but uncertain of the energy required to heat such an enclosure would really offset the lighting costs. Until I get moved to a warmer climate long-term (likely won't happen working in the auto industry), I'm stuck with the $40-60 addition to the electric bill for the tank.
Sorry to get off track of the original topic, but it's nice to air out all aspects to the readers before they would potentially jump into a 'solution' to their lighting dilemna.
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