Can dehumidifier water be put in an aquarium?

[jayfb]

I have a dehumidifier in my basement that I dump two gallons down the drain from once a day. I have tested the water in the dehumidifier for copper, nitrates, and phosphate and the water seems free of all three. Can this water be put back in to the tank? Can anyone think of anything else I should test for before putting it into the aquarium or any reason why I could not put it in the aquarium? Has anyone done this?

Thanks jason

[J. Montgomery]

The collection container for my dehumidifier is nasty and usually has stuff growing in it. I wouldn't use the water from mine for anything other than plants.

[jayfb]

my collection container is very clean, and at over 60 gls a month I could water all the plants in my house and the rest of my town.

[travis32]

Jay, I have the same thing, My dehumidifier collects around 55 pints a day, which I believe is equal to 4 or 5 gallons a day!!! * 30 days a month = 150 gallons a month or * 12 = 1800 gallons a year. That's a lot of water.

That would take care of all of my top off water and then some for water changes!!!

HOWEVER! when I asked the same question not more than 2 weeks ago. Aside from the fact that the container can eventually build up mold and mildew.. (takes time, but even the instructions said that eventually it will build up and I need to use a bleech or mild detergent to rinse out the container.

Next, The condenser I guess (most of them) use copper piping and aquarium copper test kits test for Treatment levels of copper. Coral tolerance of copper is much much much much much lower than what any copper test kit can detect.

It'd be like saying .1 ppm of copper is sufficient to kill everything in the tank except fish, and yet, the typical aquarium copper test kit has a lowest setting of 0 or 1 ppm. Nothing in between. So, even if it's 0 there still could be actually .1 ppm copper.

With that said, I don't know what the actual detectable values of a copper test kit is, but, my assumption is that coral tolerance of copper / heavy metals is much lower than what a test kit is capable of detecting.

So, all my 1800 gallons of dehumidifier water goes to the plants or down the drain. :(

[jayfb]

I own a Hach 890 I think that would have the ability to tell me if there was any copper even if it was less then 1ppm. Do you know what the tolerable level would be for corals even if it is truly 0. I do know my dehumidifier does have a copper coil.

[philbo32]

I own a Hach 890 I think that would have the ability to tell me if there was any copper even if it was less then 1ppm. Do you know what the tolerable level would be for corals even if it is truly 0. I do know my dehumidifier does have a copper coil.

NSW contains around 0.2-0.25mg/L (0.2-0.25ppm) dissolved copper, I would imagine your Hach would be capable of detecting these levels. If the dehumidifier water contains below 0.25mg/L copper, I would measure the copper in the made up seawater, as the artificial sea salts used will also contain a small amount of copper.

References for copper concentration in NSW;

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6THP-44J0BB1-135&_user=10&_coverDate=04%2F30%2F1965&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1395860408&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=466212834576f8ff3b38c594732c01ee

http://sabella.mba.ac.uk/764/01/The_copper_content_of_sea-water.pdf

[philbo32]

From google answers, (http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/237065.html) it states that dehumidifier water can be used as demineralised water but can contain dust and may contain bacteria. It also says that 'aluminum deposits most likely reside in the water' from the aluminium condenser fin.

In terms of marine aquaria, dust and foriegn bacteria (which are unlikely to survive in saltwater) will not cause any problems IMO. Aluminium deposits on the other hand can cause problems to aquatic life in low concentrations, but to cause a problem has to generally be in solution, aluminium is quite insoluble and the pH usually has to be low (<5.3) or very high (>9) to get it to go into solution.

http://www.seachem.jp/support/AluminumSolubilityToxicity.pdf

From this study of aluminium and reef aquaria it was found that aluminium isn't soluble at reef conditions;

'Conclusion
From this portion of the work we conclude that under reef conditions (pH near 8) there is no detectable soluble aluminum released from alumina. Under conditions of low pH and high dosage levels, soluble aluminum can be released from alumina. At three times the label dosage rate, we detected 0.2 mg/L aluminum at a pH of 5.3'

[HighlandReefer]

The toxicity level for copper to coral has been found in many studies to be above 30 parts per billion (ppb) or 0.03 ppm for the most part. Some species can be sensitive to lower levels of copper. None of the hobby grade test kits will detect copper levels this low. Most tanks range around 10 - 30 ppb copper from the few studies I have read.


(Effects of copper on coral/algae)
Zooxanthellae loss as a bioassay for assessing
stress in corals
http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/149/m149p163.pdf

The natural copper level in the ocean's prestine areas (not the polluted areas) is at an approximate concentration of 0.25 ug/L (ppb) or 0.00025 ppm.

Personally I would not use dehumidified water with copper coils for that reason.

[philbo32]

The toxicity level for copper to coral has been found in many studies to be above 30 parts per billion (ppb) or 0.03 ppm for the most part. Some species can be sensitive to lower levels of copper. None of the hobby grade test kits will detect copper levels this low. Most tanks range around 10 - 30 ppb copper from the few studies I have read.


(Effects of copper on coral/algae)
Zooxanthellae loss as a bioassay for assessing
stress in corals
http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/149/m149p163.pdf

The natural copper level in the ocean prestine areas (not the polluted areas) is at an approximate concentration of 0.25 ug/L (ppb) or 0.00025 ppm.

Personally I would not use dehumidified water with copper coils for that reason.

Hi Highland reefer, I respect you but you state that there are many studies carried out on coral and copper toxicity but then you only reference one paper. When I have carried out searches in the past for definitive copper toxicity to corals there are very few studies which have been performed. I have found studies done on coral larvae which aren't relevant to what we are discusing.

The paper you quote uses stock solutions added to seawater (which will already contains copper). No analysis was performed during the test to quantify how much copper was actually in the water, and therefore it has only been assumed that the stock solutions were correctly prepared. Plus the paper does not take into consideration the amount of copper naturally found in seawater to give exact toxic concentrations/sublethal effects.

Also could you point me to the source of this claim 'The natural copper level in the ocean prestine areas (not the polluted areas) is at an approximate concentration of 0.25 ug/L (ppb) or 0.00025 ppm.' the analysis I have read found cu conc. in NSW to be 20ug/L or 0.02mg/L.

[philbo32]

Personally, I would not risk using water from a dehumidifier for my reef tank. There are too many unknowns (metals, oils etc) about what the water would have been in contact with inside the dehumidifier. The only way to find out if it is safe or not would be to routinely send off a sample of the water for water analysis. This would cost money and at the end of the day would be safer to just use RO water.

[HighlandReefer]

Copper in the Ocean Environment
Neal Blossom1
http://www.chemet.com/file.asp?F=Copper+and+the+Ocean+Environment1.PDF&N=Copper+and+the+Ocean+Environment1.PDF&C=articles

"Copper is ubiquitous in the environment with 50 ppm in the Earth’s crust and
0.25 ppb in Ocean water"


Bioaccumulation in marine organisms: effect of contaminants from oil well (including copper concentration in various areas of the world's Oceans)
http://books.google.com/books?id=tDeRtpaxm-0C&pg=PA145&lpg=PA145&dq=average+copper+concentration+ocean&source=bl&ots=K8kXU935TH&sig=1N6DSC9vyT7fVwcBJFB2I4bWv3Y&hl=en&ei=nTWhS-CJD4XGlQer-YSQBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CCIQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=average%20copper%20concentration%20ocean&f=false

Comparative studies of the toxicity of heavy metals to phytoplankton and their synergistic interactions
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=5414867

(Effects of copper on coral/algae)
Zooxanthellae loss as a bioassay for assessing
stress in corals
http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/149/m149p163.pdf

Heavy Metal Levels and Their Potential Toxic Effect on Coral
Galaxeafascicularis from Java Sea, Indonesia (2009)
http://docsdrive.com/pdfs/academicjournals/rjes/2009/96-102.pdf

Copper stress on sps due to elevated levels:
http://www.bios-mep.info/(1997b)%20Jones%20(BIOASSAY)%20Marine%20Ecology%20Progress%20Series.pdf

A couple you find interesting regarding algae:

Uptake and internalisation of copper by three marine microalgae: Comparison of copper-sensitive and copper-tolerant species
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T4G-4SPJ1PJ-3&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1155580290&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=81effe596506618bb00873cea5410320

Oceanography and marine biology: an annual review By Margaret Barnes, Harold Barnes
(Effects of copper and other heavy metals on marine algae)
http://books.google.com/books?id=SIKGhuKW7ZEC&pg=RA7-PA1023&lpg=RA7-PA1023&dq=marine+algae+copper&source=bl&ots=Qw2WsRgzft&sig=LVZy-ZCCOrhHz2RlgJYa4g5zAG4&hl=en&ei=KF-cSvLPKMGSlAebwdi_DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#v=onepage&q=marine%20algae%20copper&f=false

[HighlandReefer]

Here is one I just found that is from 2009:

Differential effects of copper on three species of scleractinian corals and their
algal symbionts (Symbiodinium spp.)
http://service004.hpc.ncsu.edu/toxicology/websites/journalclub/linked_files/Spring10/Differential%20effects%20of%20Cu%20on%203%20species%20of%20corals.pdf

From it:

Land-based sources of pollution have been identified as significant stressors linked to the widespread
declines of coral cover in coastal reef ecosystems over the last 30 years. Metal contaminants, although
noted as a concern, have not been closely monitored in these sensitive ecosystems, nor have their potential
impactsoncoral-algal symbioses been characterized. In this study, three species of laboratory-reared scleractinian
corals, Acropora cervicornis, Pocillopora damicornis, and Montastraea faveolata each containing
different algal symbionts (Symbiodinium A3, C1 and D1a, respectively) were exposed to copper (ranging
from 2 to 20 µg/L) for 5 weeks. At the end of the exposure period, copper had accumulated in the
endosymbiotic dinoflagellate (“zooxanthellae”) and animal tissue of A. cervicornis and the animal tissue
of M. faveolata; however, no copper accumulation was detected in the zooxanthellae or animal tissue of
P. damicornis. The three coral species exhibited significantly different sensitivities to copper, with effects
occurring in A. cervicornis and P. damicornis at copper concentrations as low as 4 µg/L. Copper exposure
affected zooxanthellae photosynthesis in A. cervicornis and P. damicornis, and carbonic anhydrase was significantly
decreased in A. cervicornis and M. faveolata. Likewise, significant decreases in skeletal growth
were observed in A. cervicornis and P. damicornis after copper exposure. Based on preliminary results, no
changes in Symbiodinium communities were apparent in response to increasing copper concentration.
These results indicate that the relationships between physiological/toxicological endpoints and copper
accumulation between coral species differ, suggesting different mechanisms of toxicity and/or susceptibility.
This may be driven, in part, by differences in the algal symbiont communities of the coral species
in question.

[bertoni]

Bottom line: I would not use the dehumidifier water in a reef tank. :)

I think 0.25 ppm sounds far too high for copper. 0.25 ppb is believable. Lots of people report dead corals with levels well below 0.25 ppm, which is about the level that's used to treat fish for many parasites.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/index.php

[philbo32]

My mistake, misread the papers I quoted, should have read cu in NSW 20ug/L or 0.02mg/L not 0.2, apologies...

[bertoni]

It happens to all of us. :) Converting units is error-prone. :)

[HighlandReefer]

I have done the same thing myself many times. Don't feel bad. Your contributions to this forum have been most helpful and are appreciated. :)

[philbo32]

Thanks for the kind words.

Bottom line, if you do not know what is in the water your adding to your tank it's best to stick to RO water and not take the risk of introducing a contaminate that could cause problems for your reef.

[garydan]

Just a crazy thought, but what if you pushed that water through a DI resin before putting it in the tank? The DI would probably last an extremely long time since the water is practically pure, and it should take care of any copper and aluminum...? From some papers i read though (regarding the drinkability of RO/DI water), it sounds like DI resins can build up bacterial colonies.

Most household plumbing is copper and RO systems aren't perfect, so isn't this exactly why we use DI?

[bertoni]

That's a fine idea, although it's a fair amount of equipment and work. Where I live, I don't run a dehumidifier, so I haven't gone through the numbers.