My 1st ever Qt set up with fish pics

[LamboBoy]

After a hard lesson learned, I set up my very 1st Qt. It's a 55 gallon tank.

4 days ago I bought the tank and stand, added 22 lbs of LR and a couple of cups of gravel from an established tank, added 20 gallons of water from the same tank and the rest with new water plus 2 sponge filters that was sitting in the same tank's sump for over 2 months. Also added a Marineland Penguin 350 for filtration.

Today, I added 4" Blueline Angelfish and a 6" Crosshatch Trigger. Acclimated them as usual and in they went.
Immediately the Trigger went to hiding and the Angelfish was checking him out right from the start.

I know that you are supposed to add one fish at the time into QT but I thought that the tank was large enough for both fishes and both are supposed to be pretty shy. Not so, it looks like the Blueline will be somewhat territorial.

How long will the Trigger hide? Did I make a mistake by putting 2 fishes at the same time into QT?

Plan to observe them for a while, if any of them get sick, I'll take out the LR and treat the tank.

Hopefully they won't and 4 weeks from now they will be transferred to my 300 gallon tank which is going fallow. By the time the QT fish comes out, it'll be fallow for 10 weeks.

[shifty51008]

the QT looks good, I would hae only went with 1 fish at a time but you should be ok.


also if they do get ill, don't take the LR out and put it back in the main tank. I would put it in a seperate container.

[rayn]

Supposedly, and I'm gonna try it, cupramine is removable from the tank and rock with carbon and cuprisorb. Now I will try his with my 29 QT and none of the rock will transfer to any other tank, but after fish QT I hope to use it for a coral QT.

[shifty51008]

well in theroy no LR should be placed into a QT tank. not sure why you would want to risk it.

[Jstdv8]

Supposedly, and I'm gonna try it, cupramine is removable from the tank and rock with carbon and cuprisorb. Now I will try his with my 29 QT and none of the rock will transfer to any other tank, but after fish QT I hope to use it for a coral QT.

good luck with that! I wouldnt trust my corals to LR that has been exposed to copper no matter what the company said.

Secondly a QT shouldnt even have LR in it at all, whats the point?

The only thing you need is a sponge filter with bacteria built up on it from your DT or fuge, some PVC for hiding places, a heater and a powerhead.
Add new water or water from your DT, add cuprimine or do hyposalinty (requires refractometer) do an ammonia test once every other day. if you see it rising do a small water change and add in cuprimine for the water you took out. continue for 4 weeks, add fish.
I don't have a light or anything on mine unless I'm Qting corals.
There is no point in LR in a QT. you are just hoping that if you plan to reuse it somewhere else that what the company says about copper removal is right. I'm not buying it.

[rayn]

From all the reading and learning I have done and being schooled by some EXPERIENCED reefers, I feel that it is a possibility. One of my QT started as a second tank, then the need for a QT arose and that is why I have LR in it. It started as base with just a small piece of LR for seeding. It so far gives my fish plenty of hiding and has actually helped keep the ammonia down. My other tank that is fish only QT has the problem with ammonia.

The point of my other post was that is COULD be done, not should be. It is just a trial I might do in the future.

As far as what is or isn't in a QT I say it is up to the keeper of the QT.

[NirvanaFan]

live rock should not be used in a QT if you're going to use copper. It takes a long time for the copper to leach out of the rock and be absorbed by the cuprisorb. I would just use filter floss or a sponge filter.

PVC fittings are great hiding spots for fish.

[LamboBoy]

If the fish gets sick, I'm definitely taking out the LR and putting them in a separate container and not the main tank.
I also used 2 small bottles of Bio-Spira to help with the beneficial bacteria.

The Trigger is already swimming around and not afraid of the Angel and they both ate a bit of mysis shrimp.

Will post pics of the Crosshatch tomorrow..... He is pretty big and thick.

[rayn]

If the fish gets sick, I'm definitely taking out the LR and putting them in a separate container and not the main tank.
I also used 2 small bottles of Bio-Spira to help with the beneficial bacteria.

The Trigger is already swimming around and not afraid of the Angel and they both ate a bit of mysis shrimp.

Will post pics of the Crosshatch tomorrow..... He is pretty big and thick.


Not to knock what you are planning, but this is kinda my point. Why put LR in a QT if you are just going to take it out and NOT put it in the main tank? If you want the LR look for your QT then just leave it there permenantly and forget about it being used for anything else. Seems like a lot of work moving rock around all the time.

[Palting]

I have been reading everything I can about QT and copper treatments recently, as I plan to treat ALL the fish in my sig.

Copper is absorbed by anything calcarous. Live rock, substrate. Absorption is variable, as is leaching, so the copper levels can also be variable before, during, and after treatment. What's the point of putting in live rock? If it's to provide biological filtration or to seed other filters, there are several other ways to do it.

Obviously, anyone can do anything they want, and most likely get away with it. Me, I wouldn't use live rock in QT. I see no point to it.

[LamboBoy]

Not to knock what you are planning, but this is kinda my point. Why put LR in a QT if you are just going to take it out and NOT put it in the main tank? If you want the LR look for your QT then just leave it there permenantly and forget about it being used for anything else. Seems like a lot of work moving rock around all the time.

I just think it's less stressful for the fish, especially for the Angel since they love to graze on the LR.

If and when they get sick, it's not a big deal to take them out and place them in a container and add a small pump in it. I have plenty of those around and plenty of room as well. This way I can reuse them for my next fish that goes into QT. By leaving them in, they may throw the readings off when I use any kind of medicine.

Do you guys think I'll get an ammonia spike with the method I used to start the QT tank?

[rayn]

Okay then question. If a tank gets ich, and the fish are moved to a QT does the LR contain the ich parasite? I assume it does.

I am not trying to start a debate or get anyones fins rustled, just my thought and point of view on the QT LR thing. I see daily that my blue tang loves swimming in and out and hiding in the LR. Looks better in my opinion then a pvc tube for a tank I plan on leaving set up for a while too.

[rayn]

I just think it's less stressful for the fish, especially for the Angel since they love to graze on the LR.

If and when they get sick, it's not a big deal to take them out and place them in a container and add a small pump in it. I have plenty of those around and plenty of room as well. This way I can reuse them for my next fish that goes into QT. By leaving them in, they may throw the readings off when I use any kind of medicine.

Do you guys think I'll get an ammonia spike with the method I used to start the QT tank?

Okay I understand what your trying to do.

Like I said earlier, my QT that has cycled LR doesn't have any ammonia readings at all with two fish in it. My other QT that has no LR and one fish has ammonia readings, and both tanks are 29 gal. You'll have to watch what you feed and test daily. I only feed every other day right now.

[LamboBoy]

Okay I understand what your trying to do.

Like I said earlier, my QT that has cycled LR doesn't have any ammonia readings at all with two fish in it. My other QT that has no LR and one fish has ammonia readings, and both tanks are 29 gal. You'll have to watch what you feed and test daily. I only feed every other day right now.

Thanks, I'll do daily tests to make sure that I don't get an ammonia spike and if so, I'll do a water change.

As for getting ick in the QT tank.... I would have to remove the rocks and treat tank. Let the rocks go fallow for 10 weeks in a bucket. That would suck huh? Rather do that then let the LR absorb cupramine.

[shifty51008]

Okay then question. If a tank gets ich, and the fish are moved to a QT does the LR contain the ich parasite? I assume it does.

I am not trying to start a debate or get anyones fins rustled, just my thought and point of view on the QT LR thing. I see daily that my blue tang loves swimming in and out and hiding in the LR. Looks better in my opinion then a pvc tube for a tank I plan on leaving set up for a while too.

the answer is yes the rock will have the ich however without a fish in with the rock the ich will starve and die off.

[Jstdv8]

And if the rock is just kept in a bucket for 10 weeks it's not going to be live rock anymore, it will be base rock. Without a powerhead to move water through the rocks and feed the bacteria on them the bacteria will just die off and the rock will have to be started all over from scratch.

Yes, any tank that has ich present on a fish you have to assume has ich cycts (which are sticky little invisiable balls) attached to it. This includes rock, inverts, corals, filters, decorations, heaters, powerheads, anything that was present in a tank when you noticed your fish had ich. Those little cysts (called tomonts) sit there on whatever they have stuck themselves to for about 28 days before they rupture and release the free swimming ich (called tomites) which need to find another fish within 2-3 days or it dies of starvation.
To each his own on the LR, but once it's been used in the QT it should always stay just QT rock and never be used anywhere else if it's been medicated. In my case a QT is always medicated.
AS far as being theraputic for the fish, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but that fish either was captured in the ocean, put in a holding cell with other fish on the ship and transported back to port (sometimes weeks) put in a plastic bag and shipped to America, opened in the US and put into a holding tank at the vendors place to check health, then is bought by our LFS and put in another plastic bag and dark box and shipped to the LFS, then it sits in a little tank for who knows how long until it's bought from a customer, at which time it's put in a plastic bag and gets a car ride home where it is promptly added to a water tank with copper in it. This fish has allready endured incredible things since it's capture. That QT with or without LR is going to be the best place it's ever been since it left the ocean. It's only 4 weeks

[LamboBoy]

And if the rock is just kept in a bucket for 10 weeks it's not going to be live rock anymore, it will be base rock. Without a powerhead to move water through the rocks and feed the bacteria on them the bacteria will just die off and the rock will have to be started all over from scratch.

Yes, any tank that has ich present on a fish you have to assume has ich cycts (which are sticky little invisiable balls) attached to it. This includes rock, inverts, corals, filters, decorations, heaters, powerheads, anything that was present in a tank when you noticed your fish had ich. Those little cysts (called tomonts) sit there on whatever they have stuck themselves to for about 28 days before they rupture and release the free swimming ich (called tomites) which need to find another fish within 2-3 days or it dies of starvation.
To each his own on the LR, but once it's been used in the QT it should always stay just QT rock and never be used anywhere else if it's been medicated. In my case a QT is always medicated.
AS far as being theraputic for the fish, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but that fish either was captured in the ocean, put in a holding cell with other fish on the ship and transported back to port (sometimes weeks) put in a plastic bag and shipped to America, opened in the US and put into a holding tank at the vendors place to check health, then is bought by our LFS and put in another plastic bag and dark box and shipped to the LFS, then it sits in a little tank for who knows how long until it's bought from a customer, at which time it's put in a plastic bag and gets a car ride home where it is promptly added to a water tank with copper in it. This fish has allready endured incredible things since it's capture. That QT with or without LR is going to be the best place it's ever been since it left the ocean. It's only 4 weeks

Wow.... well explained!! After all that, it's no wonder the fish gets sick!
Here is a good pic of my Crosshatch Trigger.

[rayn]

I'd always thought it went that way, but had silently hoped for something better. Thanks for ruining my fishie dreams. :)

[Jstdv8]

those are some nice looking fish lambo, how do you keep the tank maintenanced with fish that eat your clean up crew?
I've always wondered that with aggressive tanks.

[Jstdv8]

The other part of the cycle that is the obvious one is when the little tomites swim around and find a fish (keep in mind that one little ruptured cycst can produce hundreds and hundreds of these little swimmers) then they bury themselves in the gills and anywhere else they can find a snack on your fish. Once they are buried in there good they start eating and the parasite and the fish make a cycst out of it that protects the little suckers. So you can't erradicate the ich in this form except for when the fish dies.
Or when the cyst gets big enough and the ich decides its ready to complete its life cycle and it bails off in one of those little sticky bubbles.
when they are in the sticky tomont stage this is when they are succeptable to hyposalinty treatment. Hyposalinty works by not allowing the little cycst to absorb what it needs from the water (specifically oxygen if I remember right) thereby kind of starving it out.
Copper works in the next stage when the cyst ruptures and becomes the free swimming tomites these little guys are killed by copper intake

[LamboBoy]

those are some nice looking fish lambo, how do you keep the tank maintenanced with fish that eat your clean up crew?
I've always wondered that with aggressive tanks.

Thanks, they came in nice and fat too. The Blueline is from DD and the Crosshatch is from NY Aquatics.

Well, right now they are in a 55 gallon QT tank so I Plan to do water changes as I need to, to keep Ammonia and nitrates down.

Once in my 300 gallon tank, I do have some serpent stars to eat detritus and uneaten food but that is all.
I also do 10% water change every 10 days and I clean my canister filter's filter at the same time. I have a closed looped system aside from a refugium and a sump.